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Discussion Starter #1
I know this seems like an impossible idea. Please, if anybody is willing to discuss this with me, I would greatly appreciate it. If an ESTJ was a 4w3 . . . What would that be like?
Would they seem like an INFP or ISFP at first glance, but the more you got to know them, it was obvious that they used more Te and Si to "prove" that they are "inherently different" from most people, through their unique successful endeavors?
Would they be more gentle and genuinely nice to most people than other ESTJs?
Would they be less hypocritical and bossy than other ESTJs?
 

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ESTJ 4w3

I know this seems like an impossible idea. Please, if anybody is willing to discuss this with me, I would greatly appreciate it. If an ESTJ was a 4w3 . . . What would that be like?
Some of their thoughts could be: I feel different because I need continuity and order. Everyone else is so flexible and different from me. I wish I could be like that but I can't. It is so hard for me. People don't appreciate the need for thinking about the past. I am the only one who does. [triggers feeling of inferiority which then turns into superiority] I am the only one who can. I can do it better than anyone else. (I'm not very good at describing the superiority half of 4w3 thoughts).

Other traits:

There will be an interesting paradox involving their natural care-giving tendencies and their desire to be rescued. I wonder how it would interact with disintegrating to 2. Maybe there will be times where instead of giving to others a healthy way, they'll give in too easily.

The elitist in them will either send them to elite institutions for education or there may be fantasies about it.

Unlike other ESTJ types, there will be a strong drive towards creativity and imagination. Their Ne will be well developed, but it may also send them often into Te-Ne loops. Such a person will be way more self-absorbed, melodramatic and negative than most ESTJs. They'll be reactive like ESTJ 6s and 8s and frustrated like ESTJ 1s. They'll lack ESTJ 3s and 1s instinctive ability to remind themselves that they are capable, but because they have a w3, some of it will be there.

Career choices I can think of:

1) A historian who works with elite castles and palaces. You know those people who pop up in documentaries about the Tower of London, Buckingham palace and other such places? That's sort of how I envision an ESTJ 4w3.

2) Someone who works in French haute couture houses (or equivalent things on other continents). Such a job would nurture them with the right mix of elitist creative workplace, w3's desire for success, ESTJ's natural drive towards productivity and keeping up the old ways. It would help them integrate to 1.

3) Literary critic. They're usually elitists :biggrin:

4) a musician in a symphony. That's elite. It requires more skill and practice than creativity, but it lets them be completely immersed in someone else's creative work. Does that make sense?

Would they seem like an INFP or ISFP at first glance, but the more you got to know them, it was obvious that they used more Te and Si to "prove" that they are "inherently different" from most people, through their unique successful endeavors?
I don't know if they'd appear Fi dom or introverted to me. Maybe to someone else? Yes, they'll definitely use Te and Si to demonstrate or feel that they're inherently different. When they're unhealthy, there will be a natural assumption that they'll fail because 4w3s often have a "reasons the world is stacked against me" attitude. So, if a 4w3 ESTJ is successful, then it's because they tapped into something healthier within themselves.

Would they be more gentle and genuinely nice to most people than other ESTJs?
Lol. I don't believe that :bwink: 4s are not inherently gentle or nice. It's usually the 4s with 9 fixes who appear that way. So if your ESTJ has a 9 fix, then sure. If the ESTJ has a 1 fix, then they'll embody a different set of traits - double frustration type. If the ESTJ has an 8 fix, then they'll be doubly reactive.

Like all types, 4s have the choice to be gentle or nice. If such an ESTJ chooses to be that, then they can be. Also, when most types reach a high level of health, they become more caring or giving. So there's that to consider too.

Would they be less hypocritical and bossy than other ESTJs?
Again, fixes. Hypocrisy is tied to enneagram 1. So anyone who has that in their wing, tritype or core will be somewhat hypocritical regardless of MBTI. Hypocritical 4s with 1 fixes exist in NF and NT forms too.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
If anybody else has anything to add, as long as it's not a dismissive "no", you should feel free to contribute.

@Santa Gloss
There's another possibility we might consider. An ESTJ 4w3 could also become a novelist as their profession. It would allow them to express themselves however they wish, especially since an ESTJ 4w3 would inevitably be more creative than other ESTJs.
 

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They would undoubtedly be more in touch with their inferior Fi than most ESTJs, and that would fuel their 4 identity. I assume that (like all of the ESTJs I know) this would manifest in a serious victim complex, but this time it would be informed by being "different" from everyone else and other 4ish traits.

They would also probably be much more productive than the average Fi-dom 4, haha.
 
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I know this seems like an impossible idea. Please, if anybody is willing to discuss this with me, I would greatly appreciate it. If an ESTJ was a 4w3 . . . What would that be like?
Would they seem like an INFP or ISFP at first glance, but the more you got to know them, it was obvious that they used more Te and Si to "prove" that they are "inherently different" from most people, through their unique successful endeavors?
Would they be more gentle and genuinely nice to most people than other ESTJs?
Would they be less hypocritical and bossy than other ESTJs?
Let's see. I'm not very good at this kind of thing, but since you asked ...

ESTJ = Te Si Ne Fi.. INFP = Fi Ne Si Te. ISFP = Fi Se Ni Te. <-- starting point. From notes, enneagram 4 = individualist; 3 = achiever. That's all I have to go on.

This enneagram points to someone in an uncommon field (individualist) who tries hard to do well (achiever). Since they are an ESTJ, they use Te and Si. Si says they rely on their experience and Te says they should be well practiced in organizing something. I see no contradiction for an ESTJ & 4w3. I would want to spot them by their success in some not so common field.

IxFPs? Those guys lead with their personal feelings. An ESTJ will be pushing Te so they would all the more have to specialize in developing Fi which they can do. Anyone who uses their primary function to specialize in their inferior function would be special.

Those other traits (gentle, niceness, bossy, hypocritical) I can't relate. Seems like those could go either way.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Let's see. I'm not very good at this kind of thing, but since you asked ...

ESTJ = Te Si Ne Fi.. INFP = Fi Ne Si Te. ISFP = Fi Se Ni Te. <-- starting point. From notes, enneagram 4 = individualist; 3 = achiever. That's all I have to go on.

This enneagram points to someone in an uncommon field (individualist) who tries hard to do well (achiever). Since they are an ESTJ, they use Te and Si. Si says they rely on their experience and Te says they should be well practiced in organizing something. I see no contradiction for an ESTJ & 4w3. I would want to spot them by their success in some not so common field.

IxFPs? Those guys lead with their personal feelings. An ESTJ will be pushing Te so they would all the more have to specialize in developing Fi which they can do. Anyone who uses their primary function to specialize in their inferior function would be special.

Those other traits (gentle, niceness, bossy, hypocritical) I can't relate. Seems like those could go either way.
Thank you for your input. I appreciate it. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yer welcome. There must have been an underlying motive for making this thread as I could make up any combination like that, lol.
It's because I have suspected a few times that I could be an ESTJ 4w3 so/sx - but I wanted some evidence before I was ready to really accept it. This is another time that I'm considering it.
 
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