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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am a ESTJ female married to an ISTP male. We have been together nearly 8 years and married for nearly 3. Our sex life was normal, hot and heavy at first, died down a little but not all together with career changes, stress, etc. We at least had it once a week but more often than not 2-3 times (normal). On are honeymoon I was super charged and it was wonderful. Once we got back to normal life sex slowly started to diminish. The kicker? It wasn't me (the female), it was him.

I noticed it around valentines 2 years ago. I dressed up all sexy like I usually do but he wasn't "in the mood". I thought I must have gained weight (I'm a small girl) and went on a diet, of course thinking this had to be my fault. As a ESTJ, I have to know the problem so I can fix it. That wasn't the problem. He told me 15 months ago that he loved me but didn't "like me" and that he had not enjoyed sex for quite some time.

It took him 15 months to make the appointment but he finally started seeing a therapist a couple of weeks ago. She told him we have may have a personality conflict. I asked him if I had changed and he said "no, there are just parts of your personality that I don't like and I'm not sexually turned on by you due to them". He isn't very specific.

He is still super sweet, loves to cuddle, kisses me goodbye and when he gets home every day. He is not good at communicating and it's driving me crazy. The last time we had successful sex was last September on our anniversary trip. That was after having a huge fight over not having sex. I'm mad because it took him 15 months to even go see someone about this. I mean what man is okay just not having sex? He told his therapist "my wife is hot as shit but I'm not sexually attracted to her".

Because of his personality type, I am always the one who makes the decisions and I often initiated sex. Well I'm not now because I know he doesn't want to and I'm scared of flat out rejection. He now mentions things like "we never do what I want to do" or "we don't have the same interest" when I'm trying to get him to talk to me. I'm sitting here thinking "we do all kinds of stuff together that we both like, why would he say that?". We sail, we camp, we tailgate, we entertain and cook out; we are best friends, or at least I thought we were.

He says that I do things that anger him but he doesn't tell me about them for months. I understand that I can say or do things that are blunt and I assume this is just my personality but what on earth could I have done or said that would make him just not want to have sex with me? I mean nothing sexual at all! I'm constantly trying to grow as an individual and be more relaxed and easy going even though that goes against everything in my nature.

Nothing is wrong with him physically (we went to our Primary Care) and he doesn't seem to be very stressed out (he never does though). I've read every book and tried everything to fix this. Since he doesn't really know what the problem is, I can't fix it and it's driving me nuts. I'm almost depressed and I so long the intimacy of having sex with my husband! He won't move forward in our relationship (buying a house, having a child, etc) since we have this huge problem. Divorce is not an option and I'm 100% that he isn't cheating on me or addicted to porn. Any advice? Please?
 

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As a ESTJ, I have to know the problem so I can fix it. He told me 15 months ago that he loved me but didn't "like me" and that he had not enjoyed sex for quite some time.
This this is your problem.

You cannot fix it in methods that are conventional for you. Your a bottom line person I get that. And in many ways STP can be too but not the same as you. You cannot mentally masturbate this out. Do not mull on it.

I suspect on some level he is feeling trapped and probably over directed. (Unfortunately this is just some of who you are as a core person). Its not who you are! its your delivery! You cannot expect to go out of your way one night and then pounce on him and he will be receptive. Then naturally feel hurt when he is not receptive. This is going to seriously take maybe a week or two of you focusing alot more on your mood and delivery with him with out reacting to his rejection. May sound fucking annoying and selfish to you. But I think I am giving you constructive advice.

You have to set up the mood as way less emotional expectancy soften your delivery and expectation emotionally and take him in stride. If you focus on kissing up to him too heavily that could be just as bad as reacting to his rejection. We do not like people manipulating our feelings.

Think of how people are when things are new and fresh and try and apply that (even when he is a stinker try not to react-I believe part of that is a subconscious test to see how quick you will revert to unpleasantry).

Nothing in overload where he is going to think you started taking extacy and are acting fruity and out of character.

Ease into things.

BTW I am not blaming you for all this I know we can be shit heads on knowing our feelings or responding to others.

The worst thing you can do tho is try and set a mood then react at his first hint of rejection (its that, that will just keep driving him emotionally outbound).

Have you tried just getting nude walking in the room sitting in front of the TV and masturbating in front of him. (Yes I am fucking serious).
 

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@Tosca - Maybe he needs more fantasy or variety? If he finds you to be attractive but no longer has sex, then the sex life is probably stale and needs some more excitement. There's always RPing.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
"I suspect on some level he is feeling trapped and probably over directed."

Cinnamon83: I suspect you are correct but I don't know how to fix that. Thank you for your honesty. I have tried walking around naked. I even tried a make-out session one night. When you say "set the mood", what exactly do you mean? Like have dinner ready by candlelight and see if he makes a move? Should I initiate at all? My delivery could belittle him as a man and I certainly don't want that.

MNis: I tried that when things started to unravel. He doesn't seem to want anything exciting; toys, lube, etc. Although we used to enjoy doing it outside where someone "may" see us.
 

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"I suspect on some level he is feeling trapped and probably over directed."

Cinnamon83: I suspect you are correct but I don't know how to fix that. Thank you for your honesty. I have tried walking around naked. I even tried a make-out session one night. When you say "set the mood", what exactly do you mean? Like have dinner ready by candlelight and see if he makes a move? Should I initiate at all? My delivery could belittle him as a man and I certainly don't want that.

MNis: I tried that when things started to unravel. He doesn't seem to want anything exciting; toys, lube, etc. Although we used to enjoy doing it outside where someone "may" see us.
Well just remember that an SJ married to an SP means that the SP will always feel trapped in some way. You need more excitement and variety. Although Cinnamon83 may be correct and that you two lack any chemistry now, although I would still say the solution to that is more excitement and variety. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You are correct...

From what you said I do not get the impression its a matter of the spice but a matter of the psychology behind everything. Thats just my meandering input.

So with him seeing a therapist now (I made an appointment too), do you think I should just be patient and wait it out. I mean it's only been 9 months, I feel like I'm being patient. I just want him to try. He says he is by going to therapy but I mean, even if it's not successful, it would feel good to know he at least wants to have sex with me. :-(
 

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"I suspect on some level he is feeling trapped and probably over directed."

Cinnamon83: I suspect you are correct but I don't know how to fix that. Thank you for your honesty. I have tried walking around naked. I even tried a make-out session one night. When you say "set the mood", what exactly do you mean? Like have dinner ready by candlelight and see if he makes a move? Should I initiate at all? My delivery could belittle him as a man and I certainly don't want that.

MNis: I tried that when things started to unravel. He doesn't seem to want anything exciting; toys, lube, etc. Although we used to enjoy doing it outside where someone "may" see us.
When I say set the mood I do not mean the candle light and such I am literally talking about the daily grind and your approach. This is not meant mean at all. I just really suspect that by the time intimacy comes into play his bigger issue is probably the psychology of your guys interactions in everyday life. This is where I am saying step by step not all at once where your wearing yourself out emotionally.

I do believe we are creatures of action. Notice something he did do and eliminate pointing out his failures in a day. (Thats not meant mean like at all). Again not in over load where he thinks your just being weird kissing his ass. I am actually telling you to embody the mentality of where you were when there was a spark take the edge off of whats going thru your head. Seriously acknowledge something awesome he did. Eliminate any un-nesessary tasks or details he may have failed to achieve and stick to only what is important to point out (you know your a great strategist and its probably something he appreciates and resents in you).

Wake every day and make a conscious effort to find one thing good to express you appreciated that he did. One or two extra love touches with no pressure implied.

Its a tad hard to explain especially because I do not want to imply its all your responsibility he is still in charge of his own emotions but I believe you hold alot more power then you realize and what he needs is affirmation without pressure. You are not powerless, if you were powerless then nothing you would do would effect him (you would still be banging lol), so you hold alot of power take that with pride and redirect it back in a positive way, little by little not all at once where he is going to be like what the hell is she doing. I am simply telling you to eliminate a few things that can be pointless from the daily grind BUT still stick to major things, amd to add a few curve ball positives. That is nothing that will mentally drain you and make you feel changed or compromised yourself. I am not telling you to be a different person just adjust a few things tweaking here could make the world of difference.
 

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BTW uh being an ISTP female knowing how to not emasculate men on accident or incidently is not my strength either. So I feel for you there. ( I never do it deliberate) But good god I am sure I have more manhood then most men I know, I am sure that would be the case for an ESTJ woman. (Beats the fuck outta me, lol). I have like no ability to emotionally cater to men. Probably my worst dating trait. My response to feelings is ok carry on carry on I am going over here lol. I know mature.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
BTW uh being an ISTP female knowing how to not emasculate men on accident or incidently is not my strength either. So I feel for you there. ( I never do it deliberate) But good god I am sure I have more manhood then most men I know, I am sure that would be the case for an ESTJ woman. (Beats the fuck outta me, lol). I have like no ability to emotionally cater to men. Probably my worst dating trait. My response to feelings is ok carry on carry on I am going over here lol. I know mature.
Bahaha yes! I have called myself a cold heartless bitch on many occasions. "Cry on your own time!". And in regards to your other post; I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm not a bubbly overly positive person. I get stressed out and work all of the time. All of these things he hates. I agree he would think I'd lost my mind if he came home and was all chipper "hey babe!". On the other hand, I don't compliment him enough and he is really great. We just go about getting things done on such different levels. It would never take me 15 months to go see a therapist if the words came out my own mouth "I need to see someone". I feel like I'm wasting away over here (turning 31 in July) but I am trying to be patient. Words of affirmation...hmmm...I may do some reading on this. Thanks!
 

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What @Cinnamon83 said.

Divorce is not an option? Huh? Unless your family has a lot of Vinnys in it, divorce is always an option.

For a type that likes the world "just so", your lack of paragraphs is intriguing. :dry:

He's super sweet, likes to cuddle, isn't being abusive, doesn't seem to have any vices that bother you too much, he told his therapist you're super hot, but he's not attracted to you anymore.

Not to point out the elephant in the room, but since the topic is blowing up the current news cycle, have you (or the therapist) asked him if he's still into women? Alternatively, perhaps he's adopted a fetish that he knows you wouldn't approve of. ("Whaddya mean you don't want to wear that gorilla maid costume in the cage swing? Don't you love me?") That said, ISTPs can easily occupy their mind with other interests, so it's not the either/or that it is with other types.

Barring that, maybe he still "loves you", which is the modern day, "it's not you, it's me". Obligations (house, children) tend to bear a heavier weight on ISTPs than many other types, and that can put pressure on the relationship.

Instead of freaking out like other types do when they're stressed, ISTPs tend to construct walls, allowing us to behave normally from the outside, while all sorts of scenarios are playing out inside out head, as we try and figure out a solution to the situation.

One of those solutions can be to shut the other person out intimately. You want a house and child(ren?), but if he's not sure what's going on with himself, or not entirely sold on your ideals, it makes sense that he'd drop the sex down to virtually nothing. If he decides to exit, you could easily impede that by "forgetting" your birth control, getting pregnant, then guilt him into a house he's not ready for. You'll end up with a neurotic ISTP that will eventually exit anyway, one way or another. The less destructive solution is to stop having sex with you, as often as possible, until he figures out what he wants.

If our solutions don't work, then we freak out, often far worse than most other types.

It can be a power play. Your type has a tendency to plan out the lives of your SO, and shrug off the gentle hints that ISTPs prefer to use with close friends and SOs. With other people, we're a little more direct (or we completely ignore them), so you won't always understand that "I don't know if that's a good idea" is an ISTP's way of saying, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, F*** no!" Being overly calm in most situations can often cause other types to assume that we want them to make decisions for us, or to ignore our advice when it's needed most.

After a few years of that sort of miscommunication, he's not going to be terribly excited, no matter what you do to turn him on. If you want him to participate in your relationship, you have to allow him to participate.

If he's not telling you what makes him angry, it's either because he knows your Judger will kick in, and he'll have to spend an hour(s) listening to why he's wrong, misunderstanding your goals, doesn't understand the bigger picture, etc., or he knows that voicing his irritations may cause you to tearfully meltdown. Either situation is painful for ISTPs to deal with, so we avoid them like the plague.

What started out as him not wanting to disagree because he didn't want to hurt your feelings or argue over minutiae has grown into a minor clusterf*** that he doesn't know how to unwind, and bring the relationship back to an balanced partnership. ISTPs are pretty talkative when we're comfortable, so if he's holding back, it's because he's avoiding a certain predictable reaction you have.

Unlike Judgers, ISTPs can be too good at brushing off singular problems, so chances are good that it's not one thing, but a pattern of minor issues that has added up. This complicates the communication problem, because you're going to want him to tell you exactly what you did wrong, but he's not going to feel like any one thing is worth mentioning, and doesn't know how to sum up the numerous petty issues that bug him, without it coming across as a laundry list of issues that will make you think he hates everything about you.

As an ESTJ, you're not going to recognize the things you do that bug him, unless you read/talk to other ISTPs. Our Dear [personality type], ... sincerely [personality type] thread might be good to skim, at least for the ESTJ bits (keeping in mind that a lot of people mistype others). Don't look for a solution, just try to grasp how our minds work when we're irritated.

That's not to blame you, it's just the way type interactions work. That's assuming there are no obvious sexual complications/restrictions, of course. It also doesn't mean it's not repairable. ISTPs, by definition, like to fix things (The Mechanics). Even if we're not mechanically-inclined, we tend to work toward peace in relationships, sometimes to our own personal detriment.

Get yourself a Rabbit, relieve your pent-up frustration, and stop focusing on the sexual part. If an ISTP isn't interested, but still cares about you enough to hang around, then it's probably a balance issue. Figure out what the pattern that's bothering him, and the sex will, umm, come naturally.

After all, while ESTJs may be blunt, they can't hold a candle to an unfiltered ISTP.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
@JB Nobody - My apologize for the lack of paragraphs, I am not much of a blogger. I went through the various options of "why" months ago and I firmly believe that he is neither gay, having an affair, into midget orgies, or anything otherwise outside of the heterosexual married male norm.

"Unlike Judgers, ISTPs can be too good at brushing off singular problems, so chances are good that it's not one thing, but a pattern of minor issues that has added up. This complicates the communication problem, because you're going to want him to tell you exactly what you did wrong, but he's not going to feel like any one thing is worth mentioning, and doesn't know how to sum up the numerous petty issues that bug him, without it coming across as a laundry list of issues that will make you think he hates everything about you."

You are 100% correct on this part but he feels that since I can take him as he is, that he is the one with the problem hence the therapist. I think he may be a little passive-aggressive when it comes to communication anyway so that along with the personality type is making me go crazy. I have been reading up on the ISTP personality and you are pretty much correct in everything you wrote. I also agree that this can be "fixed", I'm just having a hard time knowing what to do on my end. Obviously if I could fix it, I would have already.

There is a balance issue but the lack of communication makes that almost impossible to repair. Maybe the therapist will help. I'm reading "Passionate Marriage" now (yet another book). I'm going to try to "fake it until I make it" by not being critical, moody, negative, controlling or demanding. I need the balance for my own sanity. I love him and I'm happy with who he is, he just isn't happy with who I am (which is far from perfect for a ESTJ). Thanks for the advice!
 

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@hornet - according to this Essential Principles of a Functional ESTJ Relationship | MBTI Personalities we are a perfect match and balance each other.
Using Socionics, it's more than likely that you two are "mirrors" if you two are in love but the sex life is boring and there are small problems that annoy the both of you. That's the fourth best relationship possible using Socionics theory, BTW. :)

Anyway, I hope you two can rekindle your passion and revive your intimacy! :)
 

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Using Socionics, it's more than likely that you two are "mirrors" if you two are in love but the sex life is boring and there are small problems that annoy the both of you. That's the fourth best relationship possible using Socionics theory, BTW. :)

Anyway, I hope you two can rekindle your passion and revive your intimacy! :)
Thank you but we are not "mirrors". That only works when both people are okay with not having sex. I am so not okay with this.
 

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@hornet - according to this Essential Principles of a Functional ESTJ Relationship | MBTI Personalities we are a perfect match and balance each other.
Yeah and how has that been working for you?
You are extinguishing each others initiative by blocking eachother at each step.
I've experienced the relation with ESFJs enough that I know what you guys are going trough.
To even make this work you need to first abandon the notion that this is a perfectly balanced relationship.
The only balance that exists in it is a stalemate.
You both experience creativity on a sensate level, yet Si and Se will always be at odds on execution.
Hence I can imagine how pent up he must be from having his Se twarted at every level.
For some reason it is the introvert who ends up suffering the most direct observable consequences in such realations.
Cause the extrovert when creatively blocked seem to charge on regardless.
While the introvert on the other hand just retreats back into the shell.
 

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Thank you but we are not "mirrors". That only works when both people are okay with not having sex. I am so not okay with this.
Yeah, I think it's kind of weird for the guy in a marriage to stop wanting sex. Maybe he has low-T? Does he exercise often and eat healthy?

You can always try using Viagra or Cialis and slip some into his dessert or drink, but you didn't hear that from me. :shocked:
 
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