There was a discussion on this at INTJf several weeks ago, where INTJs provided examples of how their lack of common sense came into play. I shared these comments from Wikipedia:ESTPs project a certain intelligence. Is this intelligence in the form of Common Sense?
If yes, please elaborate and I'll try to keep up.
If this is a waste of time I will leave just as quietly.
-And-Common sense, based on a strict construction of the term, consists of what people in common would agree on: that which they "sense" as their common natural understanding.
These definitions give an indication that common sense first requires a consensus by a reasonable person, in any given community, of what would be considered common understanding. Introverting functions are first and foremost focused on the “Self”, so will be oblivious to external sources. This would limit the use of common sense to the four extraverting functions however the definitions above seem to be an anti-thema of someone using Ne since that function makes every effort to repress any thing that would disallow their need for creativity or budding possibilities. That leaves only three functions (Te,Fe,Se).Some people (such as the authors of Merriam-Webster Online) use the phrase to refer to beliefs or propositions that — in their opinion — most people would consider prudent and of sound judgment, without reliance on esoteric knowledge or study or research, but based upon what they see as knowledge held by people "in common". Thus "common sense" (in this view) equates to the knowledge and experience which most people already have, or which the person using the term believes that they do or should have. However this is not the common dictionary definition. The most common meaning to the phrase is good sense and sound judgement in practical matters. It has nothing to do with what other people may think or feel.
I think you are describing our sense of awareness, we take in a lot at once.ESTPs project a certain intelligence. Is this intelligence in the form of Common Sense?
If yes, please elaborate and I'll try to keep up.
If this is a waste of time I will leave just as quietly.
Expand that to SJs in general. They all love to bitch about how everyone lacks common sense, not that this proves that they have much of their own.Agreed. Common sense, like anything is relative. I don't think that too many people will have more common sense than STJs.
Disagree. Si and Ni are linear and use a step-by-step understanding. Ne and Se both use an all-at-once approach. The reasons that Ni and Si types struggle to use common-sense is because they can't think outside the box.Anyway, I see "common sense" (as in step-by-step logic using tangible items/approaches) as a Sensor domain.
Disagree again. Your connotation is what INJs thought common-sense consists of. Based on the wiki definition:Common sense is only common because Sensors are. ESTPs' primary function is S, same with ISTJs. So of course they'd have the market on common sense.
Over a month ago, this same topic came up on the INTJ forum. A couple of INTJs gave examples where their employer and physician told them to use some common sense. Here is one example, and I am not posting it to embarrass the poster, but it’s indicative of Ni users having an arduous time using common sense.Common sense, based on a strict construction of the term, consists of what people in common would agree on: that which they "sense" as their common natural understanding. Some people (such as the authors of Merriam-Webster Online) use the phrase to refer to beliefs or propositions that — in their opinion — most people would consider prudent and of sound judgment, without reliance on esoteric knowledge or study or research, but based upon what they see as knowledge held by people "in common". Thus "common sense" (in this view) equates to the knowledge and experience which most people already have, or which the person using the term believes that they do or should have. However this is not the common dictionary definition. The most common meaning to the phrase is good sense and sound judgement in practical matters.[citation needed] It has nothing to do with what other people may think or feel.
Well duh, the linear logic of someone using Ni and Si cannot compute this because they’re taking the instructions literally with a need for beginning, middle and end. It creates an unnecessary conundrum and precludes them from thinking outside the box. I told the poster that common sense would be to give the children just enough water to get the medication down, but do not allow them to drink full glasses of water. Common sense!The oral surgeon who did both my kids' wisdom teeth does this. When my instructions from the doc are "don't drink water for 3 hours " it means "don't drink water for 3 hours." It doesn't mean "except for their meds." How the hell am I supposed to know how soon the stuff he gave them for surgery wears off? Do I look like an oral surgeon? But his response is, "use your common sense." My reply was, "communicate clearly -- I don't second-guess docs." He did this for another reason as well.
I get where you are coming from, OWL. I do. In our society today, if we admit to being human and making a mistake, that almost gives people a license for people to pummel you. So we have these bizarre situations, best shown in politics, where no one is ever wrong, it is always the other person or political party's fault.but one of the stories that my ESTP told was about how he turned himself in after hitting a parked car (aka he called the cops on himself after he bent a fender of a parked car because he was tipsy) I mean, I'm really glad he has that much integrity--but calling the cops on yourself?! HAHAHA, everyone looked at him like he was an idiot!
Ni types can't think outside of the box?? You've got to be kidding - both INFJ's and INTJ's are Ni dominant, and talk about outside of the box...I don't know if I can ever see much of anything only inside the box.The reasons that Ni and Si types struggle to use common-sense is because they can't think outside the box.
It would make sense that Ni should be able to think outside of the box, but since Jung says of both Si and Ni that they have no ability to experience outside of the self, then they're limited in relating to any object outside the Self. However I was basing my response on Berens/Nardi's description:Ni types can't think outside of the box?? You've got to be kidding - both INFJ's and INTJ's are Ni dominant, and talk about outside of the box...I don't know if I can ever see much of anything only inside the box.
Ni aesthetically envisions outside of the box every waking hour, but will have little ability to think outside the box when presented with a problem. They're thought process is linear not holistic. This is the reason that both Ni and Si must use Te and Fe to protect this thought process which prefers the world of structure, and would be overwhelmed by Ne Se's all at once way of taking in things.Introverted Sensing (Si)/Introverted Intuiting (Ni) – Si and Ni are both more focused and involve a perception of “one thing at a time.” This gives the behavior a sequential appearance, with a sense of beginning, middle and end. With Si, the sequence is often logistical in nature and based on the past. Ni is based on a vision for the future, and the focus is on what steps to take next.
Of course the definition does not necessarily have to be correct, just because Wiki says it. However you raise a good point to why the definition is plausible. Although I would agree with you that logic could come into play, the question would be whose logic, yours, mine, njchick's Tree's, etc....? I may personally consider the logical thing to do but it's based on my subjective perception, not necessarily a "common" agreement. Ergo for common sense to be utilized, the word it self defines what common sense would be, something where a consensus can be derived that this is the logical thing to do, or makes sense to the majority.Just because wikipedia has a definition for common sense doesn't mean its right..
personally I dont think that definition makes sense, the last sentence of it sounds like the real definition. Common sense to me is knowing the most logical thing to do in any given situation.
:crazy:i suppose...
but one of the stories that my ESTP told was about how he turned himself in after hitting a parked car (aka he called the cops on himself after he bent a fender of a parked car because he was tipsy) I mean, I'm really glad he has that much integrity--but calling the cops on yourself?! HAHAHA, everyone looked at him like he was an idiot!
or how he didn't want to go to the health center after falling down the stairs and breaking his hand, because it was late, he was tired and didn't want to get busted for underage drinking...
you ESTPs seem to have some of the funniest stories! I love listening to him,but its mind boggling. I just could NEVER do some of the stuff he does...seriously :mellow:
OWL