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Couldn't find any info on this anywhere else so thought I'd throw it out there.

I'm a male ISFJ, so I don't have all the traditional stereotypes. I am more outgoing, assertive and actually have been told by people that I use logic sometimes or give the impression that I am a "logical" person. This isn't the case, because I still prefer making decisions based more on my emotions, although sometimes I guess I blend logic into it.

Anyways, I find that the friendships I've had with ESTPs to be great. One of my best friends that I work with is an ESTP and we both share a love of debating/arguing, sarcasm and sports.


Its cool because for once I don't think about whether or not I can criticize someone without hurting their "feelings." My friend and I give each other put-downs and criticize each other freely without a second thought, because we both know each other can take it and are easy-going. It seems like we both speak our mind to each other without any second thoughts ever. This leads us to give each other pretty good honest and straight forward advice that I can't usually get from other friends.

At the same time, we seem to have the same conversational style and work great as a team in just about any project, especially in sports. We are both highly competitive, team players who want to win.

Criticizing him for his lack of money management, while he criticizes me for being perpetually single, never seems to get old for either of us.

My question to ESTPs is what impression do you get from ISFJs? I know I am a special case bc I'm not the traditional ISFJ, but I'm still curious about what you think of us in general even if its negative.

I always thought my friend and I have learned a ton from each other, even if we both will never admit it, and continually insist the other person is stupid in some respects haha.
 

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My dad is ISFJ, my sister is ISFJ, my second daughter is ISFJ and my assistant is ISFJ. So I get along great with ISFJs, although I find there are times where I can say things that they might find blunt and unfeeling. Our communication style is very different. However, the ISFJs I know love a good laugh as well. I admire their loyalty to people, undying reliability and sense of responsibility. ISFJs love people just like us. I own my own company and I am very "big picture" so surrounding myself with ISFJs at work is awesome because you excel with process and you are great to have on a team.
They are sometimes moody, which is confusing for me because I don't deal with mood swings. I'll usually just make a joke to try and snap them out of it. All good feelings here for ISFJ though.
 

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My dad is ISFJ, my sister is ISFJ, my second daughter is ISFJ and my assistant is ISFJ. So I get along great with ISFJs, although I find there are times where I can say things that they might find blunt and unfeeling. Our communication style is very different. However, the ISFJs I know love a good laugh as well. I admire their loyalty to people, undying reliability and sense of responsibility. ISFJs love people just like us. I own my own company and I am very "big picture" so surrounding myself with ISFJs at work is awesome because you excel with process and you are great to have on a team.
They are sometimes moody, which is confusing for me because I don't deal with mood swings. I'll usually just make a joke to try and snap them out of it. All good feelings here for ISFJ though.
wow thats alot of ISFJs yikes. Ya I really hate my mood swings.

Ive noticed that alot of MBTI stuff often says how ISFJs like "talking things over" with Extroverted feelers. Yet, in actuality for me at least, while we seem similar at first, its much harder for me to talk to an ESFJ or ENFJ about things. To be blunt, we are very very often not on the same page about things, emphasizing a different set of priorities.

I tend to overlook the advice I get from SP's, when really I am learning that this the simple honest advice that really makes the most sense for me.

Initially, I've tried to adapt myself in some ways to relate better to people like ESFJs, ENFJs, INFPs, INFJs, with mixed results and exhaustion really. Now I am realizing how nice and blessed I am to be friends with SPs, I or E, but ESTP and ESFP in particular, because I don't need to make that effort. Everything is very natural and I see how special and cool it is now.

A ESTP stereotype that I have found not to be very true is that they aren't good making commitments. My friend has alot of continuality is in his life currently, with serious relationships and constant employment. I think when people see the spontaneous and "living in the moment" style of Extroverted Sensors they shouldn't immediately assume that they won't take things seriously, a bad assumption to make.
Just wish there were more female ESTPs. :happy:
 

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One word: PRETENTIOUS
Really, ISFJ pretentious? Most I know are insecure and temperamental, kind of in the background.
ESFJ: Pretentious
 

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I honestly don't know how else to put it when she acts like she knows everything. I always have to tell her that it's ok if she doesn't know or understand something. She isn't an extrovert, she is socially retarded, super judgmental, and sucks up to authority.
 

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Really, ISFJ pretentious? Most I know are insecure and temperamental, kind of in the background.
ESFJ: Pretentious
I agree that in general, ESFJ's are more pretentious than ISFJ's, especially due to their dominant Fe and more exuberant and overbearing tendencies.


Adrenaline said:
I honestly don't know how else to put it when she acts like she knows everything. I always have to tell her that it's ok if she doesn't know or understand something. She isn't an extrovert, she is socially retarded, super judgmental, and sucks up to authority.

I can, however, see some of this in the younger version of me, during my 9th and 10th grade years of high school.

In my case, the way I had always felt since I was a young kid was that I tried to be nice to people, but often I didn't feel accepted...I felt like I didn't fit in, that I was teased a fair bit, and that I just didn't have very good social interaction. However, pleasing authority figures, such as teachers, was so easy and I always got validated for it, so I naturally loved doing it.

So by the time I reached high school, I got pretty arrogant because I was so hurt by a lot of my peers. I convinced myself that I was better than them because I got higher grades...it was my way of compensating my lack of social relationships. I always wanted to be friends with people, and I was always nice and helpful, but I felt I got nothing in return....so as a result I turned very nasty.

Thankfully, around the beginning of my junior year, due to personal growth, maturity, and some spiritual experiences, I got over my arrogance, I accepted being nice to everyone just for the sake of being nice, and it made the friendships I had deeper and opened up new relationships with others. I think I just accepted that not everyone was going to like me, and that all I could do was treat people the best that I knew how. It led me to being taken advantage of more and being taken for granted more, but I was much less bitter and had a lot better social relationships.



So if this person is anything like me, it may just be a way to compensate for insecurity. It's hard to feel accepted and loved for who you are sometimes, and I know that in the past it's led me to feel like I have to be perfect to everyone.


But I don't know if it's a genuine version of being pretentious, though...if she's like me, she doesn't really believe she knows everything, she just acts that way because she's scared of not being accepted or approved of because of what she doesn't know. Sometimes it's hard for me to feel validated, loved, important or accepted unless I hear people say that. I don't think this is an automatic ISFJ trait, but I've seen it pop up a lot on the ISFJ forum.
 

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Like my relations with many other types, we have our ups and downs. ISFJs aren't just bad people. I said the first word that came to my head: Pretentious. Sometimes we actually have fun and she can be a really cool person to hang with. I just didn't want to sound like I hated ISFJs.
 

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I can, however, see some of this in the younger version of me, during my 9th and 10th grade years of high school.

In my case, the way I had always felt since I was a young kid was that I tried to be nice to people, but often I didn't feel accepted...I felt like I didn't fit in, that I was teased a fair bit, and that I just didn't have very good social interaction. However, pleasing authority figures, such as teachers, was so easy and I always got validated for it, so I naturally loved doing it.

So by the time I reached high school, I got pretty arrogant because I was so hurt by a lot of my peers. I convinced myself that I was better than them because I got higher grades...it was my way of compensating my lack of social relationships. I always wanted to be friends with people, and I was always nice and helpful, but I felt I got nothing in return....so as a result I turned very nasty.

Thankfully, around the beginning of my junior year, due to personal growth, maturity, and some spiritual experiences, I got over my arrogance, I accepted being nice to everyone just for the sake of being nice, and it made the friendships I had deeper and opened up new relationships with others. I think I just accepted that not everyone was going to like me, and that all I could do was treat people the best that I knew how. It led me to being taken advantage of more and being taken for granted more, but I was much less bitter and had a lot better social relationships.
Teddy, it is really nice to see a type/person mature like you have done. I have noticed that ISFJs really need to have that spiritual side because they do in fact do so much for others and feel that they get nothing in return. It is important for the ISFJ type, more than any other, to know that God is watching and going to reward their labors.

When I had employees, I liked the ISFJs more than any other because they were hard working, loyal, and selfless. They were true team players. The song "Wind Beneath my Wings" by Bette Middler was written about your type.

"It must have been cold there in my shadow,
to never have sunlight on your face.
You were content to let me shine, that's your way.
You always walked a step behind.

So I was the one with all the glory,
while you were the one with all the strength.
A beautiful face without a name for so long.
A beautiful smile to hide the pain.

Did you ever know that you're my hero,
and everything I would like to be?"

Even though we may be the ones to get the glory, you guys are the ones with the strength/discipline. I am not sure I can speak for all ESTPs, but I/we really appreciate the effort you ISFJs bring to the table. We may not give you all the praise and affirmation that you seek but it's not because we don't appreciate the effort. We truly, truly do. Our type just does not go overboard with emotion.
 

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My ISFJ mother and ESTP father have been divorced for years. I spent a lot time with each of them separately this weekend. And I determined it was a miracle their marriage didn't end in murder or suicide. They are so, so different. I love my mom to death but I'm wondering how my father felt he could breathe during their marriage.
 
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I totally agree with you Elvis. My two ISFJ assistants are so reliable and loyal it's amazing. They treat my business like it is their business. I am at total ease when they are running my company and I am away. If ESTP is the goal-driven, bull in china shop, outgoing personality in the spotlight, ISFJ is the quiet force in the wings making sure ESTP gets to the goal and picking up along the way.
 

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Teddy, it is really nice to see a type/person mature like you have done. I have noticed that ISFJs really need to have that spiritual side because they do in fact do so much for others and feel that they get nothing in return. It is important for the ISFJ type, more than any other, to know that God is watching and going to reward their labors.

When I had employees, I liked the ISFJs more than any other because they were hard working, loyal, and selfless. They were true team players. The song "Wind Beneath my Wings" by Bette Middler was written about your type.

"It must have been cold there in my shadow,
to never have sunlight on your face.
You were content to let me shine, that's your way.
You always walked a step behind.

So I was the one with all the glory,
while you were the one with all the strength.
A beautiful face without a name for so long.
A beautiful smile to hide the pain.

Did you ever know that you're my hero,
and everything I would like to be?"

Even though we may be the ones to get the glory, you guys are the ones with the strength/discipline. I am not sure I can speak for all ESTPs, but I/we really appreciate the effort you ISFJs bring to the table. We may not give you all the praise and affirmation that you seek but it's not because we don't appreciate the effort. We truly, truly do. Our type just does not go overboard with emotion.
Thank you very, very much for saying all of this and making this post. It means a lot, especially coming from an ESTP. There are so many things that I admire about ESTP's, but I know one in particular that has hurt me in the past, and it's made it hard for me to want to have much of a friendship with her. The other suspected ESTP's I know are cool people, but I don't have deep friendships with them. So that's been my main problem with ESTP's...I sometimes feel uncomfortable around them because I feel like I have to put on a thick skin and try to bounce off some of their thoughts or comments. And I know that most of the time they don't mean anything by it and don't want to cause any hurt, so it makes me frustrated for feeling like I'm being oversensitive.

So it makes me feel really good to hear an ESTP take the time out to say such kind words. ISFJ's surely have their share of faults (I've seen quite a number of them pop up on the ISFJ forum :wink: ), but it's very nice to have our strengths validated too. So thank you very much, I really appreciate it.
 

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I am drawn to ISFJs at first. They draw me in with their fun personalities, their quirks... etc. Then they top it off with the actions they do and that's it. I trust them, because actions speak louder than words. Then later, they seem to think better of my value to them. They get whiny, they use me to vent. Then they get irritated when I offer advice.

We hold out for a while, both seeming to think that things will get back to the way they were at first. Then we have a blow up at this point. Eventually they try to resume the relationship as it was before. It's too late, because at this point I'm through with them. Then they get angry and I'm put on some sort of "list of bad people" they keep in their head. It's an annoying relationship.
 

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but I know one in particular that has hurt me in the past, and it's made it hard for me to want to have much of a friendship with her. The other suspected ESTP's I know are cool people, but I don't have deep friendships with them. So that's been my main problem with ESTP's...I sometimes feel uncomfortable around them because I feel like I have to put on a thick skin and try to bounce off some of their thoughts or comments. And I know that most of the time they don't mean anything by it and don't want to cause any hurt, so it makes me frustrated for feeling like I'm being oversensitive.
I know you ISFJs have a long memory with regards to who has hurt you in the past. The reason for this is actually a chemical called oxytocin. ISFJs tend to be low in this hormone IMO.

Oxytocin seems to erase not our memories but the pain from our memories. Women who give birth will tell you right afterwards how painful labor was. Oxytocin levels then peak, and the next day they will tell you it wasn't that bad.

You can buy a form of over the counter oxytocin nasal spray here: Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Liquid Trust

I had some fun with it as I thought there was no way it would work, but it did. So if you are going to have to be around people who have hurt you, spray this on your hand and sniff it. It works for about two hours, and the pain from your painful memories is lessened after a spray.

As far as ESTPs making painful/insensitive comments, yes, we do. That is a function of our intraverted thinking, and it does come our harsh. I know it is the part of our type a lot of us don't like.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think that you have it right. We usually don't mean to hurt the feelings of others when we do this. We really want people to have fun and be happy.

I can see a male ISFJ dating a female ESTP being kind of rough especially if the ESTP has not matured. The ESTP is going to be into going out, having fun, spending like crazy, and lean on you to pick up the pieces after she makes a mess. With a male ISFJ, it is even worse because you are likely going to have to be the financial provider as well.

But we do mature, Teddy. The going out gets old as does not having any money. Once we set our minds to it, we ESTPs can conquer just about anything, but it has to be our idea. That is why I love ISFJs. You guys are with us as we are making our messes and learning. Nothing makes me happier than showering the loyal ISFJs with our success (not that you guys ever want much. LOL.)

We don't follow a lot of rules, Teddy. If something does not make sense to us, we break it without a thought. However, the rules we live by, we really live by, and the people we trust, we really trust.
 

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I am drawn to ISFJs at first. They draw me in with their fun personalities, their quirks... etc. Then they top it off with the actions they do and that's it. I trust them, because actions speak louder than words. Then later, they seem to think better of my value to them. They get whiny, they use me to vent. Then they get irritated when I offer advice.

We hold out for a while, both seeming to think that things will get back to the way they were at first. Then we have a blow up at this point. Eventually they try to resume the relationship as it was before. It's too late, because at this point I'm through with them. Then they get angry and I'm put on some sort of "list of bad people" they keep in their head. It's an annoying relationship.
I'm right with you heuristyx. Especially with the advice thing. They aren't to easygoing about the whole criticism thing either.
 

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I am drawn to ISFJs at first. They draw me in with their fun personalities, their quirks... etc. Then they top it off with the actions they do and that's it. I trust them, because actions speak louder than words. Then later, they seem to think better of my value to them. They get whiny, they use me to vent. Then they get irritated when I offer advice.

We hold out for a while, both seeming to think that things will get back to the way they were at first. Then we have a blow up at this point. Eventually they try to resume the relationship as it was before. It's too late, because at this point I'm through with them. Then they get angry and I'm put on some sort of "list of bad people" they keep in their head. It's an annoying relationship.
Adrenaline said:
I'm right with you heuristyx. Especially with the advice thing. They aren't to easygoing about the whole criticism thing either.
Yeah, this thread kind of diagrams the whole advice thing, at least from my perspective.

http://personalitycafe.com/isfj-for...listen-rather-then-solutions-corrections.html


I know it doesn't always make sense, but I know it's the way I function best.
 
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Yeah, this thread kind of diagrams the whole advice thing, at least from my perspective.

http://personalitycafe.com/isfj-for...listen-rather-then-solutions-corrections.html


I know it doesn't always make sense, but I know it's the way I function best.
The ISFJs I've known so far have been unhealthy in my estimation. I am hoping that one of these days I'll stumble upon a good one, so I can overwrite my negative experiences.

It will take some growing on my part too. I don't know how to listen to a problem without taking some sort of action. It kills me.
 
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