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What should we do with the old people?

  • xNFP - let them die in peace

    Votes: 24 43.6%
  • xNFP - all life is sacred

    Votes: 9 16.4%
  • xNFJ - let them die in peace

    Votes: 15 27.3%
  • xNFJ - all life is sacred

    Votes: 5 9.1%
  • xNFP - no strong opinion

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • xNFJ - no strong opinion

    Votes: 0 0.0%
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm just wondering if euthanasia appeals to/offends more Fe or Fi users, or if you don't really have an opinion on it.

This has come about after I spent a day volunteering at a nursing home a while back - my first and last, as I left really depressed that these people had to continue breathing. I wanted to kill them for their own good as they are not living but existing, in my opinion.

Euthanasia refers to the practice of ending a life in a manner which relieves pain and suffering.

OK, I'm now noticing the F/T divide so I'm going to try and clarify. The question isn't supposed to be about whether it's right or wrong or who should be involved in the decision, but on how you feel on seeing someone suffering. I have little doubt that many of the elderly people I saw were too drugged up to decide what to have for breakfast let alone that they would rather be dead. I literally wanted to kill them whether they wanted it or not, and was wondering if you feel the same. Seems the poll labels weren't the greatest...
 

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I voted die in peace which I assume is the pro-choice argument. Inherently, is the word or choice of the law or the law-makers greater than the word or choice of the individual? Should a person seeking control of their own fate under their own unique circumstances, life and beliefs have to fall in line with a view enforced by a third party to govern over a broad area with little to no recognition of the people it is supposedly designed to serve? I think another key argument is who the law-makers are even serving, are they trying to protect others by often ignorantly deciding for them or they pandering entirely to self-interest and the contentment it brings in imparting it to others?

I think if the law-makers (whether it be legal or religious) can allow a personal belief to travel so far and affect so many than I think an individual can decide on how they should end themselves. I don't think its fair for others to judge the one seeking a mercy killing as unable to decide for themselves (due to impaired judgment) either. After all, we don't even fully understand the boundary between nature and nuture in the psychology of ourselves so who can say when a personal choice or judgment has been made "fairly" or been determined or influenced by chemical imbalances or neuro-transmitters.

However my one gripe about euthanasia is the often forcible inclusion of a third party and often without choice. Whether it be through sympathy, loyalty, manipulation or other methods others will have to forever bloody their hands (where by my previous logic, can't be determined to be a decision completely made from free will.) I think it must settle with choice on the person seeking euthanasia and must settle on the choice of the third pary member to participate, whether through legitimate choice or not. I'm pro-suicide myself, highly in part due to my own experiences but could I bring someone else to be punished for the sake of my own whim? I don't think I could punish someone like that, but if or when my pain became too much I would have the ability to act on my pain. What about someone who can't? It would be like escaping an inescapable trap whilst the pour soul wears a straight jacket.
 

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I'm pro-choice in regards to abortion, so naturally I'll be pro-choice in assisted suicide if the patient truly wants it... Sounds semi-cruel to put it like that, but let's be real here.
It'd be cleaner for all involved, emotionally and literally, if it was gonna happen anyway.
 

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I don't like the two choices

- let them die in peace
- all life is sacred



I prefer this: -it's their life and their right to choose what to do with it

I'm also pro-eliminating of any kind that is continuously bringing havoc to the world and not getting any better
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
raexi said:
I'm pro-choice in regards to abortion, so naturally I'll be pro-choice in assisted suicide if the patient truly wants it...
That's completely OT - killing an innocent child without asking them is not the same as killing an old person who has lived their life and is incapable of doing so without constant support and a cupboard full of pills.

Everyone else please re-read the OP and try and answer the question I meant to post rather than the one I did please :blushed:
 

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As so often my opinion has a lot of caveats.

From where I stand right here and right now, I believe I would not choose it for myself. But that opinion is of limited value because right now I am a reasonably young and healthy person. I have no idea what I will think when I grow old and have to spend my days in pain and helplessness.

I am completely in favour of everyone's right to choose euthanasia for themselves. It is a strictly personal choice, I think even more so than abortion is.
No one else, especially not the state or the church, has the right to decide for a person whether or not they can choose euthanasia for themselves.

On the other hand a problem occurs when the physician who is asked to assist in or perform the procedure is a conscientious objector. It stands to reason that no one can be forced to co-operate with euthanasia if one has a problem with that.
 

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Ok sorry lol

Yes I am pro-euthanasia
No more suffering !

I don't even like the idea of "what if someone finds a cure tomorrow after you're dead" which is something that pops into my head sometimes. I'd do it as the very last resort



There is more life to live on the other side =)
 

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Ok sorry lol

Yes I am pro-euthanasia
No more suffering !

I don't even like the idea of "what if someone finds a cure tomorrow after you're dead" which is something that pops into my head sometimes. I'd do it as the very last resort



There is more life to live on the other side =)
But what if you are not ready for the other side and the suffering is a way of life preparing you for that? I believe everything that happens in life has a reason, even suffering and darkness and whatever. You are suppose to go through everything that life teaches you and even if it doesn't mean much to you, it may each those around you something.

So basically, I think life is sacred, I really do. Any animal, even one in desperate suffering will fight for life, but humans somehow are weaker in this department.

Plus, the example with innocent babies and old people...not really standing in my opinion. Both categories cannot choose for themselves, yet why would we have the power to choose for them? I don't know, this is my opinion a least.
 

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Pro-Euthanasia.

I don't encourage lengthening the suffering of others. I don't like drugs and how they're thrown around carelessly.It's not natural. Do you see any old animals in the wild?

If an animal can be put down, why not humans? What makes humans so special? Thumbs?
 

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Ok in light of the edit, I'd have to say it's still situation dependent, but in the example you have given SPECIFICALLY:

Yes, it should be practiced if the unanimous consensus of the staff directly caring for these people is "no chance of recovering" (and obviously it'd be more often than not in nursing, sadly). There's no tangible reason I can see to instill false hope in anyone, or to drag out something like that for no comfortable end for the patient.
 

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I think a person has a right to refuse any medical treatment or assistance. Many of these older ones likely would have died naturally if not for efforts to prolong a life lacking in quality. However, I am not for deliberate action to end your own life. There is a distinction I find important, one which separates letting life take a natural course versus suicide. The problem euthanasia presents is the involvement of others, and then grey areas can come up as to whether or not the individual really approved of their own death. I can imagine a million scenarios in which murder of the elderly could be covered over with this. Then there is the issue of suicide in someone who is not terribly ill, but possibly falsifies it so as to receive euthanasia. There can be a general disrespect for life that arises out of accepting euthanasia as a solution to illness & old age. I think it opens up a can of worms that would create more problems than it would solve.
 

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It offends me that in most countries people who suffer and have no hope whatsover of not suffering and that will soon die anyway are deprived of the possibility of euthanasia. I'm very pro-euthanasia, or better pro-let people do with their life (and death) whatever they want.
 

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I am against euthanasia, but I could handle the idea of others deciding for themselves. The only problem with that is it would only be a matter of time before the decision making process was taken from the individual and put in the hands of some governmental authority...A total no-no, imo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I think I'm going to try posting this in an SF forum... it seems no-one here can read the question :crazy: I mean no offense to anyone, the problem is that the question isn't suitable for the audience but having hung round here for months I should know the audience by now :laughing:
 

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My grandma can't take care of herself anymore, after she broke her leg and had to be operated the anesthesia ruined her mind; she started forgetting who we are, who she is etc. that happened 6 years ago and now she can't even speak properly, but she is afraid of dying... she is 92 years old. My mother and aunt take care of her, she is way too proud to accept help from a stranger and we can't really trust anyone else to treat her properly, but the whole situations is really tiring for my mother and there are times that I think it would be best for everyone if she just finally died, but that thought also makes me very sad. I've even thought of killing her myself once in her sleep with a pillow, but I could never do it of course it was just a fantasy.It's just that no matter how much someone is suffering how can I decide for them to take their life? I have a very soft spot for elderly people because of my grandma and because I know that we will be in their place one day and I wouldn't want someone else do decide for me even if I was in pain. I can see in my grandma the will to live and survival instincts that we don't realise at our age. I try to put myself in her shoes and imagine what it'd be like to be so old and fragile, it must be terrifying but at the same time the will to live is very strong but you also know that there is nothing you can do to avoid it anymore.
I hope I answered your question, it was a bit of venting too I hope you don't mind:blushed:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
My grandma can't take care of herself anymore, after she broke her leg and had to be operated the anesthesia ruined her mind; she started forgetting who we are, who she is etc. that happened 6 years ago and now she can't even speak properly, but she is afraid of dying... she is 92 years old. My mother and aunt take care of her, she is way too proud to accept help from a stranger and we can't really trust anyone else to treat her properly, but the whole situations is really tiring for my mother and there are times that I think it would be best for everyone if she just finally died, but that thought also makes me very sad. I've even thought of killing her myself once in her sleep with a pillow, but I could never do it of course it was just a fantasy.It's just that no matter how much someone is suffering how can I decide for them to take their life? I have a very soft spot for elderly people because of my grandma and because I know that we will be in their place one day and I wouldn't want someone else do decide for me even if I was in pain. I can see in my grandma the will to live and survival instincts that we don't realise at our age. I try to put myself in her shoes and imagine what it'd be like to be so old and fragile, it must be terrifying but at the same time the will to live is very strong but you also know that there is nothing you can do to avoid it anymore.
I hope I answered your question, it was a bit of venting too I hope you don't mind:blushed:
That's the closest anyone's come to answering, but it's still too personal. Nothing wrong with that though, and don't worry about the venting :happy:

If I may be so bold as to comment on the difference between your example and mine it's that your grandma is still surrounded by those who love her, and while she may have mental problems she still wants to live. Part of my excessive sympathy for the people in the home is that on a lovely summer day they were drugged up and being dragged round in wheelchairs by "carers" at a fete. This was supposed to be a fun day for them, but they were not enjoying it and most had no family make the effort to visit them. That, to me, is not living...
 

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That's the closest anyone's come to answering, but it's still too personal. Nothing wrong with that though, and don't worry about the venting :happy:

If I may be so bold as to comment on the difference between your example and mine it's that your grandma is still surrounded by those who love her, and while she may have mental problems she still wants to live. Part of my excessive sympathy for the people in the home is that on a lovely summer day they were drugged up and being dragged round in wheelchairs by "carers" at a fete. This was supposed to be a fun day for them, but they were not enjoying it and most had no family make the effort to visit them. That, to me, is not living...
Yes it's indeed a sad thing to watch those people, but maybe they too have a strong will to live like my grandma, maybe for other reasons that you can't know. I dislike those homes tbh but maybe some enjoy it, especially if they are not abusing them or something like that.
 

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I'm just wondering if euthanasia appeals to/offends more Fe or Fi users, or if you don't really have an opinion on it.

This has come about after I spent a day volunteering at a nursing home a while back - my first and last, as I left really depressed that these people had to continue breathing. I wanted to kill them for their own good as they are not living but existing, in my opinion.

Euthanasia refers to the practice of ending a life in a manner which relieves pain and suffering.

OK, I'm now noticing the F/T divide so I'm going to try and clarify. The question isn't supposed to be about whether it's right or wrong or who should be involved in the decision, but on how you feel on seeing someone suffering. I have little doubt that many of the elderly people I saw were too drugged up to decide what to have for breakfast let alone that they would rather be dead. I literally wanted to kill them whether they wanted it or not, and was wondering if you feel the same. Seems the poll labels weren't the greatest...
Your thread title and poll don't match what you're actually asking, is the problem. It's all inconsistent. Nobody knows what they're supposed to answer.

In addition, how the hell is anyone going to feel when they see someone suffering like that? Sucky. That seems like a pretty rhetorical question.

Perhaps your question is really, "If you see someone living in pain, do you feel that you should kill them to relieve them of it?" If that is the case, then you asked the question wrong thrice over - in your thread title, in your poll, and in your original post.

The problem is NOT the personality types you're asking, it's your own failure to communicate clearly.
 
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