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Sometimes ... maybe in anger, or out of contempt. I just feel like destroying things ... being viciously sarcastic .. mean and narcissistic. By destroying things, I'm referring to destroying objects [not people] that I own in order to release the frustration. In private, without the knowledge of anyone else. I've actually done it once when I was in an extreme emotional state soon after my accident.

At times, I still get those urges again.

Of course, probably more of an Enneagram thing ... doubt that 2's might be able to relate.

Thinking maybe repressors of emotions might harbour such fantasies?

I don't actually destroy anything in a way that would impact other people, but the anger does build up enough that I need to let it out once in a few years.

Any thoughts.
 

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Sometimes when my anger gets to be too much (verging on being enraged), I feel like I want to destroy things, but usually I just feel like I want to hurt myself. I very rarely do either. However, when it really boils over, I care very little about who's around to see me explode.
 

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Well, I have some pretty sadistic tendencies as well when I'm in a more emotionally unstable state in which I've been talking to my brother about lately. In a certain sense, and I don't think I'm going to get thanked for this but my style focuses more on individuals rather than inanimate objects.

To put it simply, I dream of sometimes... how should I say this... killing people, but not in very normal or common ways. Rather, they come in a more showy and artistic way and meticulous manner, channeled towards generating the most humiliation, helplessness and suffering.

For example, I wanted to kill this annoying teen pop star boy once (I bet y'all can identify which one I'm referring to) by going to his concert, find some vantage point and snipe off his limbs slowly while the crowd watches him cry pathetically and bleed to death in the most horrible man. Knee shot, followed by crotch, ears, hands, and slowly let him bleed it all out.

Then there was this time I wanted to abduct another pop star, this time female, insert an audio device deep into her ear (while letting her see my face) and flay her skin off and slice off her tongue. Then I'll drop her off at a hospital to be rescued. The next time, I will visit her, dressed as a doctor and watch her recover, then when she's mobile, I would appear in front of her causing her to helplessly panic. I activate the audio device that plays my manic laughter in her ear which explodes at the end, killing her.

...I think I better stop now... before your FBI tracks me down or something...

Bottom line Jawz, you've got nothing to be ashamed about. Maybe I should but not you :3



Oh Batman, when will you stop me?
 

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Well, I have some pretty sadistic tendencies as well when I'm in a more emotionally unstable state in which I've been talking to my brother about lately. In a certain sense, and I don't think I'm going to get thanked for this but my style focuses more on individuals rather than inanimate objects.

To put it simply, I dream of sometimes... how should I say this... killing people, but not in very normal or common ways. Rather, they come in a more showy and artistic way and meticulous manner, channeled towards generating the most humiliation, helplessness and suffering.

For example, I wanted to kill this annoying teen pop star boy once (I bet y'all can identify which one I'm referring to) by going to his concert, find some vantage point and snipe off his limbs slowly while the crowd watches him cry pathetically and bleed to death in the most horrible man. Knee shot, followed by crotch, ears, hands, and slowly let him bleed it all out.

Then there was this time I wanted to abduct another pop star, this time female, insert an audio device deep into her ear (while letting her see my face) and flay her skin off and slice off her tongue. Then I'll drop her off at a hospital to be rescued. The next time, I will visit her, dressed as a doctor and watch her recover, then when she's mobile, I would appear in front of her causing her to helplessly panic. I activate the audio device that plays my manic laughter in her ear which explodes at the end, killing her.

...I think I better stop now... before your FBI tracks me down or something...

Bottom line Jawz, you've got nothing to be ashamed about. Maybe I should but not you :3



Oh Batman, when will you stop me?
Fish! That's scary 0-0
 

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My attitude fluctuates between seeing the innate good in all people/things and "fuck the world", the latter sounds a lot like what you describe

It's a state of complete disregard for everyone and everything else, smashing things sometimes helps (when there's something to smash) but hitting the heavy bag for 30 minutes has the same effect

My sadistic thoughts are never translated into action, they're always too much risk for too little reward. Revenge is a dish best served cold and I'll trade the satisfaction of watching someone suffer for cash any day
Unless they've gone out of their way to repeatedly piss me off, then hell hath no fury, yadda yadda
 

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Fish! That's scary 0-0
Yeah, I know... sorry :p

It's ok @KC ... This isn't Minority Report. No one's gonna put you away for your thoughts.
True... lol... maybe except Stephen or Treebob maybe :X

But when I'm in this mode, I use my Fe and Ni in sorta the "opposite" manner to deliver the most painful blow.

Fe is used to gauge a person's emotions, wants, motives and character in general so I see what they desire or cherish and destroy exactly that. Use it in an opposites manner.

All of this kinda makes me a pretty kickass villain if you think abou it :3

Well, that's the infamous ENFJ anger anyway right?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yup @KC. .... for me, the anger is always internalized. Some stupid , useless lady who has nooooo idea how to word process asked someone other than me for help on it .... got it completely messed up almost ended up in tears. Even the placement officer wasn't able to pacify her.

And guess what there's Mr. ENFJ to the rescue :/

*sigh* ... Saved her work ... and I felt a simmering rage within where even boiling inside, I helped her through and made her a brand new resume in 15 minutes.

But the rage died when I saw the gratitude in her eyes in the end. Made me melt and now even though I wasted 40 minutes of my time on her ... am calm enough to start joking around randomly.

Sometimes I worry that I'll lose control of the hulk inside me and really emotionally destroy another person. Thankfully, that day hasn't come yet ... and probably never will. Too controlled and too restrained.
 

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Yup @KC. .... for me, the anger is always internalized. Some stupid , useless lady who has nooooo idea how to word process asked someone other than me for help on it .... got it completely messed up almost ended up in tears. Even the placement officer wasn't able to pacify her.

And guess what there's Mr. ENFJ to the rescue :/

*sigh* ... Saved her work ... and I felt a simmering rage within where even boiling inside, I helped her through and made her a brand new resume in 15 minutes.

But the rage died when I saw the gratitude in her eyes in the end. Made me melt and now even though I wasted 40 minutes of my time on her ... am calm enough to start joking around randomly.

Sometimes I worry that I'll lose control of the hulk inside me and really emotionally destroy another person. Thankfully, that day hasn't come yet ... and probably never will. Too controlled and too restrained.
It is our gift and burden at the same time... the ability to help people in a useful manner... Minutes ago I was helping some girl over FB with her assignment and some joking and flirting around later, I found out that she has a crush on me... asking me bout where I eat dinner and asking me to join her and shit...

Had a smoke to calm myself down... lol...

No anger here but a bit.. well... I think you know that my Fe ain't doing me good now... :p

A bit lost for words.

To be desired is good and flattering but by the wrong person, it can also be heartbreaking... :((((
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Why wouldn't they? 2 disintegrates to 8.
Good point :) It didn't occur to me at the time I made the post and then for the other thread I looked up the 2 and saw that they disintegrate to the 8.

I wonder if a disintegrated 2 would be more inclined to destroy things ... or destroy people and relationships.

Scary thought ... for me any ways. It's one of the aspects that I find hard relating to. Wonder if I should ask the 2's but dunno if they'll inclined to answer it. Image focus means repressing such thoughts. As an 8 in my tritype, I know I have a tendency to wear my bad-assery on my sleeve at times .... wonder if 2's can disintegrate to that point.
 

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Good point :) It didn't occur to me at the time I made the post and then for the other thread I looked up the 2 and saw that they disintegrate to the 8.

I wonder if a disintegrated 2 would be more inclined to destroy things ... or destroy people and relationships.

Scary thought ... for me any ways. It's one of the aspects that I find hard relating to. Wonder if I should ask the 2's but dunno if they'll inclined to answer it. Image focus means repressing such thoughts. As an 8 in my tritype, I know I have a tendency to wear my bad-assery on my sleeve at times .... wonder if 2's can disintegrate to that point.
I'm not sure disintegration only occurs under profound stress. I wonder if it also occurs under more minute circumstances. I also think that rage in itself isn't only limited to specific types. Maybe the frequency and intensity of the rage.....but I don't think anyone is exempt from those kinds of emotions.

I've wanted to destroy things in rage, and I've even thought about manipulating situations to emotionally wound other people. In times of great insecurity, frustration and bitterness I think most people have experienced wanting to hurt someone the way that they have been hurt, just as people wish to be loved in the way that they have loved.

I can imagine why you would be annoyed by someone who acted as though they were entitled to your help, but enraged? I can't relate to that as much. I can, however, say that I get enraged at inanimate objects that aren't functioning to my liking. :]
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I can imagine why you would be annoyed by someone who acted as though they were entitled to your help, but enraged? I can't relate to that as much. I can, however, say that I get enraged at inanimate objects that aren't functioning to my liking. :]
I'm glad we're having this discussion :) I managed to experience the full plathora of emotions I have in my arsenal in less than a few days today - and while continuing to focus on the tasks at hand, I kept my "record behaviour and inherent urge" sensors on active throughout the day.

My real rage started when we were in a group discussion project and a group of 7 kept deferring to me for things like speaking up in front of the class by calling me the "Team Leader" when no such role was assigned. Expecting me to take the notes, as well write the answers on the board - and then give the presentation as well. It was a complete repeat of my previous university and job projects. It's just always assumed that I'm the organizer, the leader of the group. Why? Just because I was the one establishing the controls and giving direction to the discussion itself?

And when I deferred to one of the members in my group to speak up in order to give everyone a fair chance to speak, he just turned around and said "you've get better language skills, you speak." There was almost a hint of contempt in his voice. My internal reaction was probably immature because I have been under a great deal of stress lately.

This filtered over to this helpless lady who's made it a habit to sit right next to me in the computer lab. I was tempted to just get up and find a different computer by the end today. I kept doing her work and that interfered with mine. I'm very altruistic, but when someone's work effects the quality of my work ---- I see red.

The way I help is realistic and based on long term assistance - not with petty things like formatting resumes o.0 That's something a person with supposedly 10 years of professional work experience should be able to do on her own.

The way I help is by suggesting that the 20 of us add each other on Facebook, create a group and post relevant job-related resources and postings for each other. I don't want to control anyone by forcing them to join ... but everyone noticed that doing our job search we were finding postings relevant to each other. So ... someone came up with the idea of taking everyone's emails .. and I made it easier by suggesting that we create a London Job Seekers club on Facebook. That way, I can get to help everyone in the background ---- at my own convenience <--- Which is sometimes important to me. And that need for space, I believe, is universal.

I can help people, and I like helping people --- but not when it's causing me to suffer in my own job o.0

That's where I stop relating to the 2. I think 2's like others to depend on them a lot more than I do. They're motivated by feeling needed. I relate to a certain degree, but not a whole lot. I'm really motivated by how I will be perceived in the end, while continuing to strive for what I feel would make me successful.

Helping people and being unconditional about it is a goal for me ... it's not a core need. That said, my goals, and ideals keep changing around. It's hard for me to remain true to a particular way of thinking but I have a very core inner compass that I keep focused on. But as you know ... I've had the problem of burying myself underneath too many different masks without every really being able to allow my true personality to manifest itself. I think others can probably see me as me, better than I can see myself.
 

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I'm glad we're having this discussion :) I managed to experience the full plathora of emotions I have in my arsenal in less than a few days today - and while continuing to focus on the tasks at hand, I kept my "record behaviour and inherent urge" sensors on active throughout the day.

My real rage started when we were in a group discussion project and a group of 7 kept deferring to me for things like speaking up in front of the class by calling me the "Team Leader" when no such role was assigned. Expecting me to take the notes, as well write the answers on the board - and then give the presentation as well. It was a complete repeat of my previous university and job projects. It's just always assumed that I'm the organizer, the leader of the group. Why? Just because I was the one establishing the controls and giving direction to the discussion itself?

And when I deferred to one of the members in my group to speak up in order to give everyone a fair chance to speak, he just turned around and said "you've get better language skills, you speak." There was almost a hint of contempt in his voice. My internal reaction was probably immature because I have been under a great deal of stress lately.

This filtered over to this helpless lady who's made it a habit to sit right next to me in the computer lab. I was tempted to just get up and find a different computer by the end today. I kept doing her work and that interfered with mine. I'm very altruistic, but when someone's work effects the quality of my work ---- I see red.

The way I help is realistic and based on long term assistance - not with petty things like formatting resumes o.0 That's something a person with supposedly 10 years of professional work experience should be able to do on her own.

The way I help is by suggesting that the 20 of us add each other on Facebook, create a group and post relevant job-related resources and postings for each other. I don't want to control anyone by forcing them to join ... but everyone noticed that doing our job search we were finding postings relevant to each other. So ... someone came up with the idea of taking everyone's emails .. and I made it easier by suggesting that we create a London Job Seekers club on Facebook. That way, I can get to help everyone in the background ---- at my own convenience <--- Which is sometimes important to me. And that need for space, I believe, is universal.

I can help people, and I like helping people --- but not when it's causing me to suffer in my own job o.0

That's where I stop relating to the 2. I think 2's like others to depend on them a lot more than I do. They're motivated by feeling needed. I relate to a certain degree, but not a whole lot. I'm really motivated by how I will be perceived in the end, while continuing to strive for what I feel would make me successful.

Helping people and being unconditional about it is a goal for me ... it's not a core need. That said, my goals, and ideals keep changing around. It's hard for me to remain true to a particular way of thinking but I have a very core inner compass that I keep focused on. But as you know ... I've had the problem of burying myself underneath too many different masks without every really being able to allow my true personality to manifest itself. I think others can probably see me as me, better than I can see myself.
I think the two descriptions are rather bleak to be honest. There is something about the way the descriptions portray the two that bring to mind individuals that I find myself not wanting to associate with. However, remember that the two integrates at 4, which is interested in the self, and pure self-expression. I'm not sure I completely understand it myself, but I think it's also important to note that the two ENFJ is different than the two of other types, you're still an ENFJ at the end of it. Twos can learn to say no and not be so people dependent.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I think the two descriptions are rather bleak to be honest. There is something about the way the descriptions portray the two that bring to mind individuals that I find myself not wanting to associate with. However, remember that the two integrates at 4, which is interested in the self, and pure self-expression. I'm not sure I completely understand it myself, but I think it's also important to note that the two ENFJ is different than the two of other types, you're still an ENFJ at the end of it. Twos can learn to say no and not be so people dependent.
I'm posting this from the official EI site:

No matter which personality type you are, the types in both your Direction of Integration and your Direction of Stress or Disintegration are important influences. To obtain a complete picture of yourself (or of someone else), you must take into consideration the basic type and wing as well as the two types in the Directions of Integration and Disintegration. The factors represented by those four types blend into your total personality and provide the framework for understanding the influences operating in you. For example, no one is simply a personality type Two. A Two has either a One-wing or a Three-wing, and the Two's Direction of Disintegration (Eight) and its Direction of Integration (Four) also play important parts in his or her overall personality.

Ultimately, the goal is for each of us to "move around" the Enneagram, integrating what each type symbolizes and acquiring the healthy potentials of all the types. The ideal is to become a balanced, fully functioning person who can draw on the power (or from the Latin, "virtue") of each as needed. Each of the types of the Enneagram symbolizes different important aspects of what we need to achieve this end. The personality type we begin life with is therefore less important ultimately than how well (or badly) we use our type as the beginning point for our self-development and self-realization.
This does answer a lot of questions right there.

I've been thinking about integration and disintegration heavily lately. It was the deciding factor [not the only one] in my realization of 3 being my Core Type. Why? Well, when I typed myself as a 6, I was immediately removed from my emotionally abusive relationship and everyone around me could not stop commenting on how happy I looked. I felt myself growing and blossoming. Even though I had the emotions, I was indulging in 2 activities. Repression of my emotions for the real world - i.e. Continuing to function better than I had been before. I had a great job. I was growing in my career. I was making sales by the dozen. The top performer at my company etc etc. But at the same time, the reason I was able to do that was because I had PerC to come back to to release the negative energy. I just let it all out. I explored my emotions. But what I found the most out of PerC was validation, acceptance. Praise. Ultimately, it was praise in the end. Allowed me to feel proud of whatever little I was accomplishing through the expression of my thoughts and ideas. I was love starved for 8 years - and I was getting it again. I read somewhere that 3's being image-centre also have "love" as an underlying need, but I think it was more something like "love and being loved for all doings the 3 partakes in".

Also, when I migrated to Canada ... I started going through severe depression. I had just moved a country. I was pretty much catatonic, I had experienced numbing. I was avoiding people and exhibiting all sorts of sloth-like behaviour. I was avoiding conflicts and thinking that by doing so, I was achieving some sort of inner peace. And yet, even in those times, the thing that separated me from the 9's was 'energy'. Under-lying the suicidal thoughts was always this desire to overcome it and succeed and triumph over adversity and my inner demons - which I managed to do through self-praise, self-love and the praise and love of others. I managed to start growing ... and really blossomed as soon as I had my first job interview. I knew that I wasn't a 9, or a 4 by that point. One of the core aspects of a 4 that I totally don't relate to is shame and envy. Even though I tried to, and forced myself to lie to myself and others that I do feel envy, but I didn't. I was always able to overcome it by finding some way to consider myself better than the person I envied. If someone is better than me in some things, it's ok .. I'm better at them in other things. Competitiveness.

All in all. I think I closed the chapter of my core type with that :p I'm still open to considering 2 as a wing. But I'm not sure. I'm much more introspective than 3w2's are said to be. I definitely have a lot more introverted tendencies - where I like to sit back and plan my goals and dreams. I like to stay committed to my friends and goals [which revolve around people, but primary to succeed in the relationship, or be seen as good, or great - 6w7] - and perhaps it's that commitment and loyalty aspect of the 6w7 combined with FeNi that could explain why I seem a lot more like a 2.

It's not that I don't want to accept that I'm a 2, but it's just that I don't see all of 2-ish motivations --- definitely not as much as I see 3 and 4.
 

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I'm posting this from the official EI site:



This does answer a lot of questions right there.

I've been thinking about integration and disintegration heavily lately. It was the deciding factor [not the only one] in my realization of 3 being my Core Type. Why? Well, when I typed myself as a 6, I was immediately removed from my emotionally abusive relationship and everyone around me could not stop commenting on how happy I looked. I felt myself growing and blossoming. Even though I had the emotions, I was indulging in 2 activities. Repression of my emotions for the real world - i.e. Continuing to function better than I had been before. I had a great job. I was growing in my career. I was making sales by the dozen. The top performer at my company etc etc. But at the same time, the reason I was able to do that was because I had PerC to come back to to release the negative energy. I just let it all out. I explored my emotions. But what I found the most out of PerC was validation, acceptance. Praise. Ultimately, it was praise in the end. Allowed me to feel proud of whatever little I was accomplishing through the expression of my thoughts and ideas. I was love starved for 8 years - and I was getting it again. I read somewhere that 3's being image-centre also have "love" as an underlying need, but I think it was more something like "love and being loved for all doings the 3 partakes in".

Also, when I migrated to Canada ... I started going through severe depression. I had just moved a country. I was pretty much catatonic, I had experienced numbing. I was avoiding people and exhibiting all sorts of sloth-like behaviour. I was avoiding conflicts and thinking that by doing so, I was achieving some sort of inner peace. And yet, even in those times, the thing that separated me from the 9's was 'energy'. Under-lying the suicidal thoughts was always this desire to overcome it and succeed and triumph over adversity and my inner demons - which I managed to do through self-praise, self-love and the praise and love of others. I managed to start growing ... and really blossomed as soon as I had my first job interview. I knew that I wasn't a 9, or a 4 by that point. One of the core aspects of a 4 that I totally don't relate to is shame and envy. Even though I tried to, and forced myself to lie to myself and others that I do feel envy, but I didn't. I was always able to overcome it by finding some way to consider myself better than the person I envied. If someone is better than me in some things, it's ok .. I'm better at them in other things. Competitiveness.

All in all. I think I closed the chapter of my core type with that :p I'm still open to considering 2 as a wing. But I'm not sure. I'm much more introspective than 3w2's are said to be. I definitely have a lot more introverted tendencies - where I like to sit back and plan my goals and dreams. I like to stay committed to my friends and goals [which revolve around people, but primary to succeed in the relationship, or be seen as good, or great - 6w7] - and perhaps it's that commitment and loyalty aspect of the 6w7 combined with FeNi that could explain why I seem a lot more like a 2.

It's not that I don't want to accept that I'm a 2, but it's just that I don't see all of 2-ish motivations --- definitely not as much as I see 3 and 4.
Interesting. Yeah, I always had trouble relating to the 2w1 completely, but I'm thinking perhaps it has been misrepresented. I've heard that 6w7 can have a strong tie to a 3 under certain fixes. I've actually been thinking about my type as well, and I'm almost ready to revert back to my original type.....though not officially yet. :]

2w1 1w9 6w7 or 5 or 2w1 6w7 1w9

I actually wish I were a 2w3 or a 3w2.
 
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every now and then I get so scared that I'm seriously going to start destroying things. One time I snapped and did the whole movie scene where the guy destroys everything in his living room/throwing chairs and lamps + I broke a window with my head. I wish movies never depicted those scenes or else I probably would have stuck with punching pillows/throwing stuffed animals.
 

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Ever feel like going on a random 'destroy everything' rampage?
Take the word 'random' out and then yeah sometimes when I do get really fed up I want to break something in half or shred something up into lots of tiny little pieces.

I have a tendency to blame myself and see myself as a massive failure when things don't go as according to how I planned them and so I get pretty self destructive even perhaps self sabotage myself as punishment, ripping apart future plans because I don't really care any more about them.

I look back think how I screwed up and then just think F*ck!!! and then I need to hit something really hard, usually myself.

I don't think that is 'normal' behaviour but I think probably any type can get like that sometimes.
 

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Funny you should say that... I came to the '4w5' conclusion after realising that nothing describes me under stress than these parapgraphs -

Level 5: To stay in touch with feelings, they interiorize everything, taking everything personally, but become self-absorbed and introverted, moody and hypersensitive, shy and self-conscious, unable to be spontaneous or to "get out of themselves." Stay withdrawn to protect their self-image and to buy time to sort out feelings. [this was me around feb. last year]

Level 6: Gradually think that they are different from others, and feel that they are exempt from living as everyone else does. They become melancholy dreamers, disdainful, decadent, and sensual, living in a fantasy world. Self-pity and envy of others leads to self-indulgence, and to becoming increasingly impractical, unproductive, effete, and precious. [this was kind of me around march last year]

Level 7: When dreams fail, become self-inhibiting and angry at self, depressed and alienated from self and others, blocked and emotionally paralyzed. Ashamed of self, fatigued and unable to function. [exactly me during pretty much all of May last year]

Level 8: Tormented by delusional self-contempt, self-reproaches, self-hatred, and morbid thoughts: everything is a source of torment. Blaming others, they drive away anyone who tries to help them. [me at the end of my whole 'lets be self-destructive' stint. Those were very dark days indeed]

I think I dipped my toe in the 'level 9' pool by uptaking several very self-destructive habits over that time...

---

Sometimes however, for all the to-ing and fro-ing people on here do with enneagram, I think we're all just better picking numbers out of a hat: Stop trying to find the 'perfect' fit, after all, it's not like your enneargram type is supposed to be your dream wedding dress or whatever :/ I do actually like enneagram as, if you can find a good, non-bias description, they are pretty encompassing of every type. Too many people only want to look at the types which they think best associate with their MBTI rather than themselves as a person (why so many of the ISTPs here initially went down the 5wx route, myself included). And that's not helped when you find a description online which assumes that every member of one type has to be a XXXX :/

Personally, I don't associate at all with the more feelings-associated traits of type four. Then I realised someting: I'm an ISTP, I'm not supposed to. Sometimes you can only find the best fit when you learn to factor in other things from your life, including external aspects of your personality which might not fit. And if you really have to overthink it... then no, it probably isn't as good of a match as you're trying to convince yourself it is.

...



Aaaaand now to get off of my high horse.



That's better.
 
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