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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I always get this nagging feeling that I could be working harder to be nicer to people..

Basically, the other day my friend told me off for being too nice, and I was kinda surprised and told them so. I mean, I get I'm not a total dick or anything, but I just don't consider myself to be in that kind of bracket where someone would make that comment about me, in fact like I said I feel guilty at times for not making more effort. He looked at me as if I were insane lol. Obviously as a friend I guess he's biased though.

I generally feel like I'm somewhere in the middle of people, or at least adults. I'm just maybe more obvious at times because of my extrovert nature. I acknowledge I set myself an unnecessarily high standard, but I dunno, I really hate the idea of setting a standard, either vocally or just to yourself, and then not actually living up to it. Other people do it and don't seem to mind, me, it pricks my conscience and I remember.

This is one of those threads where the more I type the more I realise I'm typing a lot about nothing haha.. but any chance anyone else gets this?

TLDR: "I have an overactive conscience, do you?"
 

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My default is to be accommodating and nice to friends and people I don't know well.

My family gets the true me, which is neither all that nice nor all that accommodating, although I do apologize a lot (and mean it) for being horrible.

Basically, I set up my own problems of being too amiable / not initiating conflict even when I'm angry, and then venting to said family, who tell me to stop being such a pansy and just say what I want to people. Which I never do. :p

I also feel regular guilt for not wanting to spend time with people who clearly adore me, but whom I have rather tepid feelings for. It seems mean to push people away who really want to be with you, while yearning for people who don't want to be with you. :p
 

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I always get this nagging feeling that I could be working harder to be nicer to people..
Never has this really occured to me unless I've been intentionally stirring the pot that day (often), and with no inhibitors the pot tends to keep stirring and stirring until it boils over (not often). After this happens, I suppose I have to yield, fall back and be nice/submissive/gentle.

Basically, the other day my friend told me off for being too nice, and I was kinda surprised and told them so. I mean, I get I'm not a total dick or anything, but I just don't consider myself to be in that kind of bracket where someone would make that comment about me, in fact like I said I feel guilty at times for not making more effort. He looked at me as if I were insane lol. Obviously as a friend I guess he's biased though.
I get a vibe he thought you were being exploited through your kindness/used as a doormat by someone else for being too nice. Just an assumption though, don't quote me on this (you may). A horse needle of testerone should do the trick I'd think.

I generally feel like I'm somewhere in the middle of people, or at least adults. I'm just maybe more obvious at times because of my extrovert nature. I acknowledge I set myself an unnecessarily high standard, but I dunno, I really hate the idea of setting a standard, either vocally or just to yourself, and then not actually living up to it. Other people do it and don't seem to mind, me, it pricks my conscience and I remember.
Nothin' wrong with being average at something for once in your odd life. The thing with ENFPs and pretty high standards, I don't exactly get it. I mean I do, at least a vague grasp, but at the same time the specifics elude me. But setting a goal and failing to meet it should reasonably torment your Fi, as flexible as your Ne might be.

This is one of those threads where the more I type the more I realise I'm typing a lot about nothing haha.. but any chance anyone else gets this?

TLDR: "I have an overactive conscience, do you?"
I get what you're trying to convey, you want to be nice for the sake of being nice, because it's nice, yes? A lot of us do this as well, but we're all at different stages in life so we'll have to see how the PerC ENFPs react. @Falling Foxes, @angelcarnivore, @NIHM, @Ghostcolors.
 

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I acknowledge I set myself an unnecessarily high standard, but I dunno, I really hate the idea of setting a standard, either vocally or just to yourself, and then not actually living up to it. Other people do it and don't seem to mind, me, it pricks my conscience and I remember.
Same. But it's not because I have any delusions of sainthood, it's because I want to have the moral advantage in a debate. I preach unconditional love and I believe in it. I don't insult friends, even affectionately, I practice patience in willful rebellion to what my peer group says is okay so that when they're *actually wrong* on a moral ground- I can enjoy smudging their faces in it after letting them dig themselves into a hole, all the while cautioning them they are perhaps digging a hole. I don't even say 'I told you so.' I just enjoy holding that 'I didn't say I told you so' over them in passive agressive glee.

(Example, on facebook in February they were revoking Joss Whedon stance as a feminist when it came out he cheated on his wife before they divorced amicably five years ago. Flashforward to their precious Takei and Frankin being outed for sexual harassment (a worse moral crime since there was no consent as there was for Whedon and his lovers... And I'm posting gifs from Dr. Horrible Singalong Blog *consistently all year* because fuck-you Whedon broke the writer's strike of 2004.) I posted "Having not denounced anyone she's loved for being a flawed human, nor boycotting any property for discovering said flaws, goes right on enjoying everything as before.

Was it nice? NO. But I was patient and consistent and clear about my standards, which will not tolerate hypocrisy.

TLDR: "I have an overactive conscience, do you?"
I have a weaponized conscience. ;) Be kind, be patient, never tell em they left their shoe untied.



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The other day I said to my co-worker, "I think we have the same personality type." She's definitely ENFP the more I've gotten to know her. She doesn't know MBTI, though. She said, "Yes, except that I think I let myself be mean, and I can't picture you ever being mean." I said, "I don't think you are ever mean." She said, "Well, I let myself say what I think these days, but I said what I thought at my husband in front of other people last night and now feel horrible." I said, "I'm not perfect with my family. Even when you 'say what you think' you are never trying to hurt anyone."
But just TRY to get me to be rude-- a girl I knew tried once. She wanted me to be rudely honest with her about her faults. I just couldn't do it. How much money would you have to pay me to try to be deliberately rude? An interesting thought.
Mostly I just couldn't do it, truly. I think this must be a strong principal among ENFPs. I see the current "INFJ evil" thread and I thought--- I just thought it was more emotionally sick than I thought them capable of-- which is all interesting. I thought, "This thread would never happen in the ENFP forum.". We probably have other stuff that they just stare at in the same way, "How can this BE?!" Well we don't justify being mean or taking advantage of others, right? Not that I can see. Stupidly neglectful I feel guilty of sometimes--- but also try actively to get this out of me.
Te sometimes yells at the kids and husband..... not in a personal way, but in a "Get this done!" way and I have been working on that, I don't do it even nearly as much as I did a month ago.
 
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No, i'm a type 2 and i'm super nice. And when my desintegration to 8 comes out like some wildebeast, being not nice is then justified because I feel that somebody screwed up.

Convenient right? :cool:
 

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I get what you're trying to convey, you want to be nice for the sake of being nice, because it's nice, yes? A lot of us do this as well, but we're all at different stages in life so we'll have to see how the PerC ENFPs react. @Falling Foxes, @angelcarnivore, @NIHM, @Ghostcolors.
Good to see you Producer. Being nice for the sake of being nice? I struggled with people pleasing growing up. Others' emotions and well-being were more important than mine. It wasn't until later that I grew out of that. Being nice for the sake of being nice sounds like Fe to me. I now realize Fe dom's aren't doing this on purpose. It's who they are. As I am with Ne. But being nice, just to be nice isn't how I roll anymore. I rarely cross into the threshold of mean or rude. But if I'm not feeling it, I usually go quiet and do my best to find alone time. At the end of the day, I don't want anyone to cause intentional suffering to others. May that be physically or emotionally. If I see that, that's where beast mode comes out and the wrath of a thousands waterfalls will rain down upon you. I think I kinda answered your question. Happy Thanksgiving usa friends.
 

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Never has this really occured to me unless I've been intentionally stirring the pot that day (often), and with no inhibitors the pot tends to keep stirring and stirring until it boils over (not often). After this happens, I suppose I have to yield, fall back and be nice/submissive/gentle.



I get a vibe he thought you were being exploited through your kindness/used as a doormat by someone else for being too nice. Just an assumption though, don't quote me on this (you may). A horse needle of testerone should do the trick I'd think.



Nothin' wrong with being average at something for once in your odd life. The thing with ENFPs and pretty high standards, I don't exactly get it. I mean I do, at least a vague grasp, but at the same time the specifics elude me. But setting a goal and failing to meet it should reasonably torment your Fi, as flexible as your Ne might be.



I get what you're trying to convey, you want to be nice for the sake of being nice, because it's nice, yes? A lot of us do this as well, but we're all at different stages in life so we'll have to see how the PerC ENFPs react. @Falling Foxes, @angelcarnivore, @NIHM, @Ghostcolors.
I've noticed that my husband and others in my life have pointed out that I'm too nice and can be taken advantage of. What they don't apprehend is I make a conscious selection of how I interact with someone. I can view the situation and see all the negative outcomes, I make a judgment and take the accountability for my choice to give a person the "benefit of the doubt." I chose in most circumstances the positive result a person may take with my kindness. Sometimes I get burned and this outcome can make it seem like I prefer to be stepped on. If someone steps on me than I also take again the responsibility of that decision and move on. I don't look down upon myself for being kind, yet I think it speaks volumes for those who would take advantage of it with alternative motives. In my late thirties I've entered a kind of self happiness and understanding my faults and postive traits. I think it might be my Te getting stronger.
 

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People tend to point out that I'm too nice and are fearful that I may be taken advantage of- I show people trust that's how I gain their trust , the people I choose to trust well they're still in my life and wants the best for me .
I don't think I'm nice- sometimes I feel like I could be nicer - I think people mistaken my calmness as sweet, similarly I'm not shy but because of my tranquilness I appear so( in real life).
I don't think I'm mean - not even close but I can definitely be nicer - often time I feel guilty for my insensitivity towards others when I'm annoyed

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Yes, my best friend is an ESFJ and she gets frustrated with me for being too "trusting" of people. The problem I have with that is, though, I would feel I had already failed if I was conducting life suspecting everyone was untrustworthy. I trust and respect people until proven otherwise.
Though, that being said, I feel I can pick up on when somebody is being genuine and I will subconsciously keep them at an arms length. I would never, ever let that person know of my secret deep understanding of their personality, incase it hurts their feelings.
I definitely feel that I could be "nicer". By nicer, I think I mean more "patient". If I really need to, I think I could have infinite patience for a person, if it was required. Especially if I knew it would help them.
But, yes... ESFJ friend gets very frustrated with me for giving time and energy to people that do not necessarily "deserve" it.. ;)
 
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Welcome @Organs, nice to see you @NIHM
Yep I do what Organs says too. When do you not trust someone? Usually for me it's just very intuitive. I would say it's pretty rare that I've been taken advantage of probably because #1 In my 40's who does this anymore? #2. I have figured out how to keep certain people at arms length.
There are some people in my life who have earned my distrust-- these are not people who are untrustworthy in general-- these are people who specifically don't like or understand me and who I somehow feel have been oppressive, and usually I react with hoping to never see them again.
Today something happened that usually doesn't happen for me either. Someone asked to spend time with me in an activity that I am very open to, (showing me how to train my dog to be a therapy dog) and she basically wants to be friends with me. I couldn't see a reason to say no, especially since I would love to do this activity and we have gotten along well. However, I then think I might have picked up some vibes that I'm not going to like dealing with. It almost feels like she's got romantic feelings for me. I wouldn't have expected this. She and I are both married to men. I'm usually intuitive enough to avoid stuff like this. ><
But yeah...intuition is key, right?
 
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Hello! :D Happy to be here ^_^

There have been instances where I have not trusted someone immediately. My (ex) ESFP friend berated me for it and couldn't believe why I didn't trust them. Fast forward 3 months and they had left town, stolen hundreds of ££ from another friend of ours. I definitely think it is something intuitive with ENFP's. I just get a "vibe" almost straight away. I think we intuitively read the other person's body language and the way they speak to other people. I am almost not listening to their "words" (hence why I never remember people's names) as I am far too busy reading their actions and tone of voice. I think those things say way more about a person ;)

I also do the same with music - I usually know if I am going to like the artist's music within the first 3 seconds....

I'm usually intuitive enough to avoid stuff like this. >< But yeah...intuition is key, right?
I think we ENFP's like to think that our intuition can always lead, and that we are able to be friends with them at an arm's length. In a perfect world, this would work wonderfully, but sometimes the other person can be so determined to get what they want from us, that we need to implement more tools to keep ourselves intact...
 

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All the time, I sometimes think (which means a lot of the time) that i'm not a nice person and i come across and being an awful person. I feel like i get hot headed a lot of the time and regret thing i think/say, like i always regret standing up for myself because i feel like im coming across as a jerk and i just don't like people thinking I'm harsh or horrible even if i may be standing up for myself (despite me having conflict with that said person). so yeah I definitely do.
 

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Welcome @Organs, nice to see you @NIHM
Yep I do what Organs says too. When do you not trust someone? Usually for me it's just very intuitive. I would say it's pretty rare that I've been taken advantage of probably because #1 In my 40's who does this anymore? #2. I have figured out how to keep certain people at arms length.
There are some people in my life who have earned my distrust-- these are not people who are untrustworthy in general-- these are people who specifically don't like or understand me and who I somehow feel have been oppressive, and usually I react with hoping to never see them again.
Today something happened that usually doesn't happen for me either. Someone asked to spend time with me in an activity that I am very open to, (showing me how to train my dog to be a therapy dog) and she basically wants to be friends with me. I couldn't see a reason to say no, especially since I would love to do this activity and we have gotten along well. However, I then think I might have picked up some vibes that I'm not going to like dealing with. It almost feels like she's got romantic feelings for me. I wouldn't have expected this. She and I are both married to men. I'm usually intuitive enough to avoid stuff like this. ><
But yeah...intuition is key, right?
My motto is I'm accommodating to everyone I meet but when I show the sullen side is when you know the trust bond is being formed. I'm always happy and I'm always weird but my sadder emotions I'm more shy about. That's when I trust someone. Showing someone your faults and not have them run away is always the seal that gets the golden bond of friendship. Not everyone can take the underground cryptic vortex of the unlit side of Ne. It doesn't have to be dark but we're weird and out there. I'm kind of happy about my over talkative brain. In a way, it's been a defense mechanism for me. If people understand and stay with my thought process and not be annoyed, only then do I know I have the right person. If someone can take that on my worst day of a full-blown ne-fi-te loop then they're a keeper.

Being kind has never been hard for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
i always regret standing up for myself because i feel like im coming across as a jerk and i just don't like people thinking I'm harsh or horrible even if i may be standing up for myself (despite me having conflict with that said person). so yeah I definitely do.
I dunno about you, but a lot of the time in those situations I do feel like there was more I could have done to circumnavigate a situation. I think because my intuition is capable of steering me through situations with subtle delicacy that I might not be able to otherwise, I maybe sometimes get frustrated with myself when I haven't been able to do that. Especially, like I talk about how flow is something that rises and falls throughout life- and when I'm at my peak everything in life is so easy to manage, but at lows it can be frustrating I'm not able to function as smoothly, even if I'm overall doing OK, and that's when I probably tend to be a bit harsh on myself, like "these situations should be avoidable for you, how come?"..

There are other times when someone is doing something unavoidable, and when I can see a behaviour building up, I'm generally quite patient however I'll draw a line well ahead of time where I pre-think "if you cross this line, I can't find a moral justification to be patient anymore".. Otherwise I think if you keep reacting as it happens each time, then you can keep giving excuses for it or going into action-paralysis, and you can also kind of if the behaviour doesn't get quite bad enough to cross the line say "ok, that's dealable for me, I can comfortably live with this without having to confront it" and actually it's fine because you've drawn a line so you know you're honest with yourself.

The one big pet peeve I have is passive aggressiveness, where you don't have the balls to say something to someone's face, but also not the decency to therefore keep it private.. Worst when they'll say things indirectly where the person might catch wind. Even if it's nothing to do with me, I can barely conceal a sneer around people like that- my level of respect for them is probably close to "disgust".
 

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I'm thinking where I draw a lot of my lines is if I'm unable or unwilling to deal with the other person's expectations of me. Like that is where I draw the friendship line. If someone wants too much of my time and I don't feel like I'm getting anything out of the relationship, I'll nip that one in the bud. This one above (the lady who might have some romantic feelings towards me) well I don't want to deal with that! I'm devoted to my husband. I am going to have to hurt her feelings and I'm going to have to draw some lines. If possible, I'm going to try to see if my husband will come to the dog training too-- usually I wouldn't get side-boarded like this.
But this is true with the other relationships and has to do with that "inner circle". If I can supply a happy smile or sympathy to an acquaintance and then move on, then no problem. If I find someone who I think matches me for a good friendship and we have equal needs and time constraints then that works great for me too and I further those relationships. Finding people who expect or want more than I want to give---- forget it! Usually I pick up on it all quickly and decently and as kindly as possible nip it in the bud... "I'm too busy" ect. It's rare that something sneaks past me like the above--- but I do feel equipped to dealing with it.
 
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