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Discussion Starter #1
I know often people view INFJs as people that only see the best in people, and see the world sort of naively through rose colored glasses kind of. But I don’t see things like that at all, I do see the good in people but I also see the bad the selfishness the cruelty, the likely hood of the hurtful things that they will do to others and to me if I allow it.

That is why I am such an introvert and so closed off to most people. Even my closest friends who I look at and see mostly good when I see that little bit of selfishness and bad and the hurt they can cause others, it makes me keep them still at a distance, I am always willing to help and listen to someone else, but when it comes to my own fears or sadness, I keep it locked up and won’t leave my self vulnerable to their exploitation.

Do any other INFJs feel like that? Like they just shouldn’t trust other people, because no matter how much good they see in them, you also sense their selfish motivations and therefore keep your distance? :unsure:
 

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If people do not accept you for who you are; frankly; that is their problem; not yours. That is my opinion of course. There is nothing wrong with introversion. Introversion does not equal selfishness. If it does; then it is the same as extroversion equal shallowness.
 

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Acceptance goes both ways, and no one is completely devoid of selfish motives. Consider the amount of insight, and joy you could bring to someone's life--and yet don't because of a personal fear that may be irrational (with some people, not all, there are people out there who would just hurt you--that's true.) Anything we do to protect ourselves, whatever the method, or mechanic; it is self-serving, as it should be, and therefore selfish. There is nothing wrong with it. Things will improve as soon as we stop acting like we're incapable of being just as wrong/flawed as everyone else, and then stop treating each other as if the human condition is unacceptable.

Also, if introverted = selfish then extroverted would = generous. Either way it's a falsity.
 

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I trust people, for the most part, and I am an introvert. Sometimes I trust them too much, and end up being harmed by it, but I would rather suffer for my hope than become bitter and cynical, losing it entirely.
 

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I understand how you feel red riding hood. I was droven into an extreme state of shyness not too long ago in my life out of pure fear of people. I was bullied during high school and middle school, which doesn't really measure up to the harsh difficulties that others go through, but being sensitive it had a great effect on me. Seeing people so easily and without regret hurt others made me very anxious around people i didn't already know and trust. It got so bad I dropped out of high school and nearly completely isolated myself from the world.

Eventually I got very lonely. Such a forlorn life lead me to attempt suicide not once, but twice. Eventually I learned that I had let fear overcome me, and prevented me from leading a happy and fulfilling life. Through a combination of medicine, therapy, and willpower, I have gradually learned to be more outgoing. I learned that finding people to trust and confide in was not only acceptable, but natural and healthy. I've learned that life holds a combination of good and bad, and that others out there are suffering through the same disillusionment, and need friends just as bad as I did.

It's hard to see the beauty of life, because a single fly can ruin the ointment, but if we look deeper we can see that there is an amazing, and wonderous amount of goodness and selflessness too. It does no good to mourn evil without action against it. See the bad and the good. Cherish the good and add to it. It's not always easy, and you will occasionally be saddened with the cruelty of others, but you have to come to terms that you are only in control of your own actions, and though you may not see immediate repercussions, it is worth it in the long run to strive forwards.
 

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Iron Fist
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So now the misconception about Introverts lacking self esteem will turn into *Introverts are Introverts because they are jaded*?
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Discussion Starter #7
I don’t mean to come off as if I do not think I have my own selfish motivations or that I am prefect lord knows I know better than that, it is just that I also sense those of others therefore I keep my distance. Maybe I should not have labeled it evil but to me that is kind of what those selfish self centered and self serving motivations are like really they are just carrying grades of evil.

I will speak to someone else and provide insight and support at times, but it is my own personal struggles thoughts and fears that I do not really share, and mostly I do not do it because I feel and fear the intentions of others if they know my weaknesses, and even if it is just once that I see a glimpse of what they could do to me, or how they could hurt me, I shut them out and do not trust them. Snail said she would rather suffer and have her hope, but I would rather just not suffer and have a quite life on my own, I can’t seem to really out and out trust anyone. I don't really get lonley I am very happy all on my own, I always have been, I prefer and almost need my own alone time and a lot of it, I would be happy in a little cabin way back in the woods with just my horses and dogs, and actually paln to retire that way. I don't exactly avoid people, I just avoid expressing my own feelings to others.

Yes I suppose it is self-defense and it maybe selfish, but it is and always has been my very nature (it has been sense I was a child no reason for it that I can think of except that I really do feel the intentions of others, and so often they are just self serving so I don’t trust by nature), and I wonder if it is a trait common to other INFJs. I wonder if it is because we are so sensitive to the motivations of others and see so much of what the different consequences of actions maybe that we are so cautious??? or if it is just one of my own very odd personality quirks of my own.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So now the misconception about Introverts lacking self esteem will turn into *Introverts are Introverts because they are jaded*?
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For me it is not that I am jaded from things that have happend, it is kind of proactive self defense, I am that way because of what I can foresee others doing if I open up to them more, and I figure if I do let them do anything to me, well then it is my own darn fault.

I have and always do forgive anyone who hurts me, but most of all I forgive them because I know I had a choice and allowed them to hurt me, but I have let very few people close enough to do it, and only one has ever really been able to hurt me bad,a nd i was like this before I ever even met them. I figure I have only myself to blame for the majority of the situations I place myself in, not that there are not times that we end up in bad situations at no fault of or own, I mean if I am driving my car within all legal limits and someone runs a red light and hits me, I am pretty much not a fault for that one, but if I open up to a friend and tell them I like a guy and they blab it all over, well then I told her knowing it was likely she would blab and that is my bad.

It is not that I am jaded really from things that have happened, but I am introverted to keep them from happening, kind of an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure thing. I am not sure if anyone else is like that, and really I have been like that most of my life, and really it is because I pick up on the innate selfishness that we all carry to some extent inside, or at least that is what I think, and i wonder if other people with INFJ personality types feel the same thing to some degree?
 
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Cafe Legend and MOTM Jan 2011
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*hugs* I'd live in a cabin too. Maybe we could make our own community of trustworthy people.
 
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i can relate, about keeping yourself shut and locked up. one of my psych lecturers once said that i am like an onion, many layers covering me, and that it is unlikely that anyone will ever get to the centre without there being some tears and discomfort...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
i can relate, about keeping yourself shut and locked up. one of my psych lecturers once said that i am like an onion, many layers covering me, and that it is unlikely that anyone will ever get to the centre without there being some tears and discomfort...
Really I am not even an onion, no layers involved, I just lock myself in, more so than others out, people often think I am emotionless because I don’t express them to many people well I will have to rethink that, I will express anger if someone hurts someone I care about, but that is about it, and anyone that figure me out and how to hurt me, knows that one, only a few people have been brash enough to do it, and lived to regret it, but hurt someone I love and you may as well cut me in half, and I will express anger and I will come at you with a vengeance, and people are usually shocked when they see that emotional side of me. I really do feel deeply I just keep my personal feelings to myself. I just don’t even allow people close enough really to hurt me personally and directly.

Over all I have had an easy and good life, no tears really to get to the reasons why or traumatic reasons that I lock others out, I m not jaded, no reasons really other than the fact that I do not trust other people because I know to well the true cruelty and self serving motivations that can take hold of the human heart therefore I do not trust easily, and it is very hard to earn my trust, and get me to open up. I only know of one person who I trust like that, and even then sometimes he has to ask and point blank say he wants to hear how I feel or what I think, and even then it may take me a few days to actually get the courage up to say it. I can annoy people with that.

OH and snail I already have the land for the cabin, just my house now is too close to the road for me, I am moving further back into the woods behind the barn instead of in front of it. I will make you your own cabin if you want. HA I am such a hermit.
 

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For me it is not that I am jaded from things that have happend, it is kind of proactive self defense, I am that way because of what I can foresee others doing if I open up to them more, and I figure if I do let them do anything to me, well then it is my own darn fault.

I have and always do forgive anyone who hurts me, but most of all I forgive them because I know I had a choice and allowed them to hurt me, but I have let very few people close enough to do it, and only one has ever really been able to hurt me bad,a nd i was like this before I ever even met them. I figure I have only myself to blame for the majority of the situations I place myself in, not that there are not times that we end up in bad situations at no fault of or own, I mean if I am driving my car within all legal limits and someone runs a red light and hits me, I am pretty much not a fault for that one, but if I open up to a friend and tell them I like a guy and they blab it all over, well then I told her knowing it was likely she would blab and that is my bad.

It is not that I am jaded really from things that have happened, but I am introverted to keep them from happening, kind of an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure thing. I am not sure if anyone else is like that, and really I have been like that most of my life, and really it is because I pick up on the innate selfishness that we all carry to some extent inside, or at least that is what I think, and i wonder if other people with INFJ personality types feel the same thing to some degree?
Not to start an argument with someone who is already hurting, but I would like to challenge a few things that I think might be at the root of your inability to trust.

If someone hurts you, it is not your fault. Having the ability to prevent something through unnatural action is not the same as being responsible for the evil choices that others make when they abuse your vulnerability. Being vulnerable is not wrong. Taking advantage of the vulnerable is.

If I am robbed because I forgot to lock my door, it is not my fault that I was robbed. Under ideal circumstances, I would be able to leave my door unlocked without fear. It may seem like basic cause and effect, that somehow my forgetfulness caused someone to violate my boundaries, but whether it is or not has little to do with whether it should be. When I am robbed, I may not have behaved defensively enough to prevent the theft, but I did not cause it by accidentally "allowing" it to happen.

If a girl walks down a dark alley at night alone and gets raped, she may not have been cautious, but it was not her moral or legal responsibility to be cautious. The rapist is solely at fault, and the girl is not to blame. Under ideal conditions, her freedom to walk alone wherever she wants, day or night, would not be limited by fear of criminals, because such acts would be unthinkable.

If a person is picked on for having pale skin in a culture that values dark skin. That person could prevent the abuse by going out and getting a tan, but she should never feel that she has to, or that it is her fault she is being picked on, just because she technically had the ability to prevent it. The people who bully her are the ones who are fully responsible. She shouldn't have to change. They should.

You shouldn't have to build up walls that shut people out and prevent true connection and vulnerability. People have the responsibility to respect your vulnerability without abusing it, and if they do not, blaming yourself for what they do to you is a form of internalizing and validating their evil. Those who hurt you are to blame no matter how you open yourself to possible attacks. We have the right to be emotionally open without fear. Those who abuse us do not have the right to take advantage of that openness.
 

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OH and snail I already have the land for the cabin, just my house now is too close to the road for me, I am moving further back into the woods behind the barn instead of in front of it. I will make you your own cabin if you want. HA I am such a hermit.
That would rock!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Not to start an argument with someone who is already hurting, but I would like to challenge a few things that I think might be at the root of your inability to trust.

If someone hurts you, it is not your fault. Having the ability to prevent something through unnatural action is not the same as being responsible for the evil choices that others make when they abuse your vulnerability. Being vulnerable is not wrong. Taking advantage of the vulnerable is.

If I am robbed because I forgot to lock my door, it is not my fault that I was robbed. Under ideal circumstances, I would be able to leave my door unlocked without fear. It may seem like basic cause and effect, that somehow my forgetfulness caused someone to violate my boundaries, but whether it is or not has little to do with whether it should be. When I am robbed, I may not have behaved defensively enough to prevent the theft, but I did not cause it by accidentally "allowing" it to happen.

If a girl walks down a dark alley at night alone and gets raped, she may not have been cautious, but it was not her moral or legal responsibility to be cautious. The rapist is solely at fault, and the girl is not to blame. Under ideal conditions, her freedom to walk alone wherever she wants, day or night, would not be limited by fear of criminals, because such acts would be unthinkable.

If a person is picked on for having pale skin in a culture that values dark skin. That person could prevent the abuse by going out and getting a tan, but she should never feel that she has to, or that it is her fault she is being picked on, just because she technically had the ability to prevent it. The people who bully her are the ones who are fully responsible. She shouldn't have to change. They should.

You shouldn't have to build up walls that shut people out and prevent true connection and vulnerability. People have the responsibility to respect your vulnerability without abusing it, and if they do not, blaming yourself for what they do to you is a form of internalizing and validating their evil. Those who hurt you are to blame no matter how you open yourself to possible attacks. We have the right to be emotionally open without fear. Those who abuse us do not have the right to take advantage of that openness.
You know Snail you are totally right on this one, no one has the right to hurt someone, unfortunately because I can not control what others choose to do, I then choose to look at and control what I can do, IE locking my door, or emotionally locking people out. I guess if they hurt me it is true they are in the wrong, but I still will find fault in myself, but I would never do that for someone else, hmmm how odd that I hold myself more responsible for me than I hold others responsible for themselves??? it is and always has been my philosophy that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and it really is why I am and always have been introverted.

I do not remember one time in my life, even sense I was a young kid, that I did not meet someone and immediately instinctively start sizing them up and sort of calculating out what I noticed or felt to be the good and bad in them, and depending on how much good I saw I would warm up to them, or keep them at a further distance, and no matter how much good I do see, still even that little bit of bad I see will make me not let them in really close. Maybe not the best way to live, but it has worked for me all my life, and I am happy with it, I just wonder if there are other people who operate the same way. If it is a function of our sensitivity to others, that keeps us introverted?

It seems to me another INFJ poster here described the same type feelings, but even more of an extreme than mine.
 

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I can pinpoint a small handful of people (four possibly five) who, in my life, had a significant impact on shaping me. I've heard the expression that you can only be hurt if you're willing to be hurt/allow others.... but if it happens from a young age then you allow it to change you.

Do I resent them at times for what happened? Sure. But at the end of the day, in a twisted way, I'm truly thankful because they shaped me into a more considerate and empathetic person that I could never have been were they not in my life. I articulate the evil in them contributing to the betterment of me :crazy:

Life has not been easy, but at the same time I feel that I will see far more reward and feel more accomplished in the path I'm taking that I would not have had otherwise.

I agree about close friends: even the few that I keep really close, the people I trust most in the world, I feel have betrayed me in ways that I would never do to them. It's particularly maddening when other people are involved -- when close friends act different in front of people to put on a display, then act like it was nothing later. Or when close friends go behind your back and talk to someone about something, because they feel they have the moral highground/authority to do it in your situation. It's just immature and causes me to question our friendship later.

PS I'd love to see a bunch of INFJ get together and try to size up each other and be honest about it in person and also people-watch together. It would be fun to see how accurate we could be or how we felt.
 

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I know often people view INFJs as people that only see the best in people, and see the world sort of naively through rose colored glasses kind of. But I don’t see things like that at all, I do see the good in people but I also see the bad the selfishness the cruelty, the likely hood of the hurtful things that they will do to others and to me if I allow it.

That is why I am such an introvert and so closed off to most people. Even my closest friends who I look at and see mostly good when I see that little bit of selfishness and bad and the hurt they can cause others, it makes me keep them still at a distance, I am always willing to help and listen to someone else, but when it comes to my own fears or sadness, I keep it locked up and won’t leave my self vulnerable to their exploitation.

Do any other INFJs feel like that? Like they just shouldn’t trust other people, because no matter how much good they see in them, you also sense their selfish motivations and therefore keep your distance? :unsure:
Yeah I know how to you feel. It seems that with my intuition I just can't be that naive of people's not-so-good motives.
 

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I don't think INFJ's should be typed to simply see the good in people. Honestly, I see the whole spectrum. INFJ's merely see. That's the hardest part. We see and we can feel what people are doing so deeply that it may as well be happening to us (at least that's the way I am). So naturally when evils are committed, to anyone, I feel like I have been hurt. In most cases I would then withdraw. On the other hand, when I have been hurt directly my hold world crumbles down. I have to rebuild myself one piece at a time while telling myself, "Someone likes me somewhere."
 
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