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Just wondering if any of my fellow ENFPs have had to deal with a 'fallen' ENFP in your life? I use that term versus "bad" which just seems a step too far. But what I am meaning are ENFPs who have fallen into a place in life where they consistently, even purposefully, try to hurt others?

My main story was with an ENFP I'll call Mark. He was my first friend at my school I moved to in grade 3 and we stayed friends (though more casual friends) through my mid 20s. During that time he dated for two years an ESFJ close friend of our friend group. After several conversations, she broke up with him as he had no fire to find a career and was just working odd jobs...Not at all in a place for a family which she desperately wanted.

The break up sent him over the deep end. After failing to get her back, he ate a bunch of marijuana brownies at a party and was hospitalized. He tried to use this situation to get the girl back, when that failed he became a stalker and would try to manipulate her, trying to play on him as a victim who was sick and being hurt, trying to get her attention to "help" him and then bring them back together. He even stalked her best friend with ceaseless calls and texts angry that the mutual friend would not "help him".

It came to the extreme point that the cops were called on him, he was hospitalized for review of mental illness, and finding none, he was instead forced to sign a peace bond. Obviously, my group doesn't hang out with him anymore and has zero contact.

Honestly it was a pretty scary situation for all of us and let me witness an ENFP who developed serious issues first hand.
 

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That sounds awful! I feel bad for all involved. It makes me ask myself if I think that is a choice? To fall? Choose the dark side?

Met one? Not in my real life I don’t think... but here on PerC we’ve seen a few. One who was actually probably fallen INFJ. He just seemed Ni to my INFJ friend, but it’s hard to figure out a fallen character. He was incredibly dark. He actually death threatened A few people (I was one).

Then there’s that guy who keeps talking about controlling and manipulating others and he does seem like a fallen ENFP. I don’t think he’s anything else.

I know a fallen ENTP... he didn’t have far to fall. Lol. No just kidding. He does make me double-question all ENTPs. He’s got a double life, that guy, and is highly manipulative.
 

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I know a fallen ENTP... he didn’t have far to fall. Lol. No just kidding. He does make me double-question all ENTPs. He’s got a double life, that guy, and is highly manipulative.
I question ENTPs. I find myself going back and forth between having a healthy perspective of being open to all types and personalities, to then remembering the sociopathic behaviours I most often encounter from ENTPs in my own experience.

I don't think I've seen an ENFP fall that far. I've seen plenty of lost potential though- one of my best friends during UK college (senior high school) has kind of stayed in the same place with the same friends, and I can see his life stagnating from the mistakes in attitude he made during his early years. He was quite a bright guy but has realised absolutely zero of that potential. I remember cutting ties with him 8-9 years ago because my gut gave me this feeling that he would be a dragging influence on me, and it really looks like I was right to do so. He's not a bad guy, but just lazy with no real goals, and at that age and time I remember having a few rebellious years where I was tempted in that direction too before something deeply instinctive in me told me to shut the whole thing down and do a 180.

There were a few times I could have been tempted by my own immaturity to pick the wrong paths- but there was always that deeper conscience with the voice of my childhood projection of my adult future that kept me from straying past a certain point. Thank God, because as it turns out becoming an adult in the conceptual sense is not only necessary but ultimately the only satisfying choice.
 

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No but I had this friend in middle school with whom we connected so much, it was a crazy N-N connection. But she was kinda borderline-like... abusive, talked me down etc she actually did some damage at the time. She'd lie about things and try to gaslight, too. For the longest time I thought she was ENFP but turns out she's INTJ. lol
 

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One of my friends is one. He is a sad example of a broken ENFP who can't channel his Fi constructively. Like a broken ESFP would binge on alcohol and erratic sexual behavior he binges on conspiracy theories and wacky religiously-slanted political ramblings. Unemployed, kept afloat by his old ENTJ buddy who helps him file his welfare and social security applications. One week he's a Nazi, the next a communist, then an islamist on the third. Raised Lutheran but idolizes his father and his islamic faith when it becomes a convenient weapon against the vehement atheist ENTJ for example.
 

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@Moby85 I was a "fallen" ENFP myself. grew up in a broken home, drug addict, etc. I had friends who ended up in prison and committed suicide. Many are still extremely broken people in their adult life. In retrospect while I had some bad experience, I really do believe I was protected by God. There were circumstances that just small details changed would have put me in prison, addicted to meth, etc. but somehow I avoided what befell alot of my friends. God is what finally turned my life around and Christians who went out of their way to keep me on track, even though I was not fun to be around back then.
 

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I was one for a while. I'll edit the post tomorrow and explain the whole thing, this is just a reminder for myself.
 

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It's a slippery slope alright. Once you go that dark there's only you who can get you out of there, but once you do get out of being in an unhealthy state, you come to realize that you've got the tools to notice when you're going in a positive or negative direction. Your compass is so much more apparent and you recognize these states in others and can put yourself in their shoes. The drive to improve even further than being in a regular healthy state also becomes stronger imo. You want to bring as much positivity as possible, to be compassionate, caring understanding, and you recognize the chances to do so pretty easily.

@Moby85 that guy sounds like an unhealthy 4, he saw people as doing him wrong and wanted others to feel for him, yet no one did. This made him even more desperate to save his image which made him ruin it even further. He got addicted to the care and affection of the ESFJ and decided to not let go of it. That was his mistake. He probably learned his lesson since then, I'm wondering if it's still necessary to single him out because of it? Him having one tough spot in his life doesn't necessarily mean that he's gotta be a black sheep for all his life is what I'm saying. People can change, especially ENFPs who have learned their lesson. Don't we want to see people as who they could be at their best and try to steer them in that direction?
 

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I am an sx/sp 8 ENFP. It is quite in my nature to obsess and reject external morality. Yet I am so intensely authentically happy at the same time.

I do believe I am corrupt, though. And I love it. Because I love myself unconditionally.
 

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I was one for a while. I'll edit the post tomorrow and explain the whole thing, this is just a reminder for myself.
I couldn't edit the post for whatever reason. Anyways, a mixture of these two happened to me. Both happened because I wanted to be "stronger"/perceived as "stronger" or less naive due to several events happening quickly one after another at a relatively young age, all ending pretty badly and thus beating my idealism to a pulp. Disillusion was at the centre of it all and as far as corruption goes, I think this is the most common way it happens to us.


https://www.personalitycafe.com/enfp-articles/10708-10-stages-depressed-enfp.html
https://www.erikthor.com/2017/02/03/become-enfp-stress/

In my case, it was nothing like the guy mentioned in the first post. Instead, I cut ties with my friends who did nothing wrong and rejected every hand offered to me. I also became cold, detached and withdrawn (which later grew into depersonalization). I wanted to destroy every little bit of me that ever thought happy endings/positive change was possible, on both small and grand scale of life. It was obviously an overreaction, but looking back at it now, I was 15 and what happened was partly the typical teenage disillusion and partly the fact that I overestimated my influence and relied on how I hoped people would act in certain situations instead of being more realistic.
 

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I couldn't edit the post for whatever reason. Anyways, a mixture of these two happened to me. Both happened because I wanted to be "stronger"/perceived as "stronger" or less naive due to several events happening quickly one after another at a relatively young age, all ending pretty badly and thus beating my idealism to a pulp. Disillusion was at the centre of it all and as far as corruption goes, I think this is the most common way it happens to us.


https://www.personalitycafe.com/enfp-articles/10708-10-stages-depressed-enfp.html
https://www.erikthor.com/2017/02/03/become-enfp-stress/

In my case, it was nothing like the guy mentioned in the first post. Instead, I cut ties with my friends who did nothing wrong and rejected every hand offered to me. I also became cold, detached and withdrawn (which later grew into depersonalization). I wanted to destroy every little bit of me that ever thought happy endings/positive change was possible, on both small and grand scale of life. It was obviously an overreaction, but looking back at it now, I was 15 and what happened was partly the typical teenage disillusion and partly the fact that I overestimated my influence and relied on how I hoped people would act in certain situations instead of being more realistic.
Reality could come clashing pretty hard at you when you've got this kind of ideal world pictured before you, yet you're stuck in a world that is far from it:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today... Aha-ah...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

But then you start asking yourself.. "What is my role in all of this?"

That's a massive turning point.
 

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I GOT one!
There was an obvious ENFP at work. Let’s call him Phil. He basically made everyone feel right at home around him. He seemed to get embarrassed easily and seemed quite conscientious (more than me). He was always teasing me about my “street cred” going up or down. I’ve known him to be this extremely friendly extremely likable person for almost 4 years. Nobody dislikes him, he’s a ray of sunshine. He lived with his fiancé (call her Jessica) and her little girl who he was going to adopt.

Phil got fired at work last Friday and my husband would like to apply for his job but the whole thing was so mysterious and our first thought was that maybe Phil was getting paid too much, so they were looking for an excuse to fire him? My company does that sometimes. We wanted to find out and were nervous about applying. So there was a girl at work that usually sat by him and I asked her if she knew more. She said she would be glad to tell me, let’s call her Ellen.
Phil had been having an affair with Elle for about a month. He told Ellen that things with Jessica had been going downhill and that he was only staying with Jessica until after the adoption of her daughter came through and then he would leave Jessica for Ellen. He spent some nights over at Ellen’s under the lie of being on a hunting trip. Ellen started to have s9me doubts about Phil because he also would seem to “disappear” for a few days and not communicate with her. He would apologize and say he would do better.
Last week he stayed over at her house Phil was touching Ellen and she said “Ut oh, I hear my daughter coming. stop.” Phil giggled and kept on. She had to tell him 3 times and finally had to jump out of bed. She then said, “if you don’t know what stop means then I can’t have you in my house.” He felt with tons of apologies. Then apologetic texts until they got nasty and guilt tripping. Then she asked to have her desk moved away from him, however she needed to be there and he could work anywhere. The manager moved him. Phil then sent a threatening text to Ellen saying that he would hurt her if he ever found out “she had said his name.” Ellen showed this to HR, Phil was fired. They said that a girl about a year ago had said Phil had had an affair with her and threatened her life when they had broken up, and that time she had no proof and they had made her sign something not to tell anyone...which sounds fishy as all get out.

Okay, so this sounds just a step above juicy gossip BUT we would have NEVER suspected this guy of this. Also, he is an ENFP.. giving “romantic adventures” a new twist. Um...I’m also now weirded out by his relationship with the young girl he says he is going to adapt of his finance’s, because of attitude about “Stop, my Daughter is coming in.”

Well...you think you know a guy. My husband and I have been thinking it over a lot since usually it seems l8ke we get “weird vibes” a lot earlier.
 
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