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i really want to experience the unknown spiritual, abstract stuff, ideally in a way that activates my emotions, and also ideally positively..

is it possible for a person to have a very vivid and out of this world spiritual, novel experience on a clearly conscious and obvious level?

i want to be emotionally self-sufficient.. and keep myself really interested and entertained without much help of external stimulis but i want to be able to sense things that can come from within?

so is there anyone who has this kind of dynamic, spiritual, emotive experience without using any medication but more purely using their mind on a completely conscious level?
 

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Have you tried yoga? I find that yoga sometimes evokes this feeling. Of course, this is a somewhat external stimulus, but ultimately it comes from within. I have heard the same for meditation.

I experienced some similar to what you describe a couple of years ago while traveling. It was just me, my car, and a complete state of unattachment to anything for about three weeks. I had very little human contact, no responsibilities, and a healthy dose of mother nature and introspection. The resulting feeling was one of complete connectedness with everything; an utter self-contained feeling of peace and contentment. It felt just as you describe, as though it were coming from within. I felt that I was embracing my true nature. I have had brief "highs" in the past, states where everything was perfect, the sun was shining, and everything seemed possible. I have heard others here describe similar feelings, a heightened state of awareness and joy, that last perhaps for a day or two. This was like an extended version of that. The feeling lasted for a few months, until I allowed some real world drama to interfere. I have not yet reattained this feeling, but I intend to.
 

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so is there anyone who has this kind of dynamic, spiritual, emotive experience without using any medication but more purely using their mind on a completely conscious level?
Yes.

If you asketh, I shall giveth answer. :happy:
 

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lol please tell me how then !!
 

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define spiritual? I hate how religion is seen as beneficial in psychology. You can replace it with other things that are true and not morality controlling...

So if you meaning deep meaning and "enlightenment" if you know what I mean, just meditation, nature walks, relaxation, listening to your favorite music and reflecting on life, etc.

If you mean seeing angels get a magnetic field helmet and focus it on your temporal lobes, or you can take LSD :laughing:
 
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You are here in this moment.

Think of where you are, all the things you are noticing.

Now think of all the things you are not noticing. All the things that are there, or happening, but you do not pay attention to them. Feel your feet on the ground. Look at the way the walls are shaped. With each breath, be aware of your breathing. Smell the scent in the air. What do your clothes feel like? Focus on those things.

Notice the cement of which the streets are made. Look at the houses made of wood and plastic. Feel your clothes, the cotton and polyester. Where did all these things come from? The houses were once trees. The cement was once a great many natural things. Your clothes were once in a field, grown thanks to water from the sky. The water in the sky came from the oceans. Which provides the basis for fish to grow and live, and from where life sprouted. You and I have come from that. It is all connected. And so, we ask, what are you and I of? We find that the same air I breathe was breathed many times over, by all beings. We find that the water of which I am made has been in the oceans and through the entire life cycle. Nothing exists alone. Relativity. You and I are as much ourselves as we are everything around us.

Know this, and you begin to realize how breathtaking life really is. Everything takes on new meaning. Whether you or I intend it or not, we impact everything in the Universe in countless ways.

The ancient art of meditation helps one to realize not only this spiritual awakening, but also of one's inner being of thoughts and emotions. The answer can only be understood by oneself though -- from no other can you learn such importance. The answers already lie within yourself -- all you have to do is simply allow what you seek to present itself. :happy:

With this video, I send positive tidings and I wish you the best on your journey.
 

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define spiritual? I hate how religion is seen as beneficial in psychology. You can replace it with other things that are true and not morality controlling...
Your perspective here assumes an objective truth and that this truth is not connected to the social guidance of morality. This could be interpreted Te-Fi instead of Ni-Fe. Unless your social loyalties were more closely tied to a subculture or competing culture whose values you embrace above those of an alternate cultural complex. If this were the case you would still be using Fe but quixotically in the service of an assumption of truth by association.

Let's assume for a moment that you think science is "right" and religion is "wrong". This actually is unscientific because it makes an epistemological assumption about the applicability of "science" as a method of inquiry into a domain for which it lacks any sufficient vocabulary or capacity to test - namely "meaning". It is unscientific because science is a method of inquiry that yields no result as to the felicity of its findings. It only describes what is. To think that what *is* should govern what you ought do is to commit a naturalistic logical fallacy. Just because something *is* a certain way does not mean it ought to be that way. Elevating a method of inquiry to esteeming its results as dictating moral action is not to yield to the results of the method but rather an act of totemizing the method itself.

Ni-Fe can never be a wholly scientific cognitive pairing in this regard. It is a rational rather than empirical pairing as it deals with axioms and not empiricism. Now I'm not saying that totemization of inquiry is bad. But I am saying that it is important to understand that totemizing science as a sovereign guide to moral import is unscientific.
 

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i really want to experience the unknown spiritual, abstract stuff, ideally in a way that activates my emotions, and also ideally positively..

is it possible for a person to have a very vivid and out of this world spiritual, novel experience on a clearly conscious and obvious level?

i want to be emotionally self-sufficient.. and keep myself really interested and entertained without much help of external stimulis but i want to be able to sense things that can come from within?

so is there anyone who has this kind of dynamic, spiritual, emotive experience without using any medication but more purely using their mind on a completely conscious level?
I like how you discern the experience coming from something internal or something external, because the most obvious thing that first came to me, was DMT.

But, I think meditating for a long period of time (as in, meditating on a daily basis for months and years) allows you to feel a type of happiness not many people in this world experience (google monks+happiness).

I think learning how to experience the 'moment', as in, embrace the moment and stop saying 'no' to everything is another way


Echart is not the first to talk about this of course, but this is about genuine self realisation (not the western idea of coming into being who you think you should be, but the more eastern idea of it). If you google self realisation, you may get more resources on this. I've never felt happiness like I have just sitting on a beach, and completely being overcome by the moment. Being one with the stillness of the environment, rather than listening to the 'noise' of my mind.

I think being a part of movements, or being a part of groups in society which align with your ideas, philosophies, values can allow you to really connect on a spiritual level with people.

Being in 'my body' allows me to feel one with everything, so things like intense exercise, yoga, etc make you feel really good (endorphins) and put you in touch with life.

Astronomy and cosmology may allow you to feel one with the universe.

Philosophy Re: existentialism.
 

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Go out in to the wilderness. The full rainforest/waterfall experience for a week. Do the hard hiking and experience real physical exhaustion.

When you rest you'll feel it. When you get back you'll feel refreshed and stronger inside, like you have strength to tackle anything.

I had this experience after doing the Kokoda Track in Papua New Guinea. I still like to venture out into the mountains and places where there are no other people and just sit and listen and think. It's what helps me recharge.
 

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Going along with Slyke's advice, I would also recommend long distance running. I ran a marathon some years ago, and the runner's high is definitely reminiscent of a spiritual experience. Also, running could be compared to a sort of meditation, just you and your thoughts. I do not necessarily recommend a marathon, but there is definitely something to long distance runnning.
 

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i really want to experience the unknown spiritual, abstract stuff, ideally in a way that activates my emotions, and also ideally positively..

is it possible for a person to have a very vivid and out of this world spiritual, novel experience on a clearly conscious and obvious level?

i want to be emotionally self-sufficient.. and keep myself really interested and entertained without much help of external stimulis but i want to be able to sense things that can come from within?

so is there anyone who has this kind of dynamic, spiritual, emotive experience without using any medication but more purely using their mind on a completely conscious level?
For me, this is where the "creative side" to the INFJ really can shine. You are speaking of my heaven, my secret place, the place I long for when I am not honoring my Fe state of being.

This wil be different for everyone, as your creative side is as unique, as you are. Mine is in nature (perhaps, external stimulis. But, healthy) ... this is my place for quiet, stillness and the place for awe to expose itself. (It can never be taken away, it is always available, and right out my back door.)

I can have the worse day ever... go outside... and my mind completely clears. All I begin to see is the beauty of the trees, the sounds within nature, the bird that is at rest. -- Awe and rest are found.

Where will your "secret place" be found?
 

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For me, this is where the "creative side" to the INFJ really can shine. You are speaking of my heaven, my secret place, the place I long for when I am not honoring my Fe state of being.

This wil be different for everyone, as your creative side is as unique, as you are. Mine is in nature (perhaps, external stimulis. But, healthy) ... this is my place for quiet, stillness and the place for awe to expose itself. (It can never be taken away, it is always available, and right out my back door.)

I can have the worse day ever... go outside... and my mind completely clears. All I begin to see is the beauty of the trees, the sounds within nature, the bird that is at rest. -- Awe and rest are found.

Where will your "secret place" be found?
The thing with nature is that... it's not external when you become it. When you become the stillness it is... by just looking at it... and taking the emphasis off your mind chatter and put it instead, on the moment... that's when you feel something; a feeling of connection. Very powerful.

Ironically, I find that in water. I love your name and picture. It's funny how we have elemental connections that seemingly come out of nowhere. Whenever I'm amongst trees and water, I feel like i'm at home.
 

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The thing with nature is that... it's not external when you become it. When you become the stillness it is... by just looking at it... and taking the emphasis off your mind chatter and put it instead, on the moment... that's when you feel something; a feeling of connection. Very powerful.

Ironically, I find that in water. I love your name and picture. It's funny how we have elemental connections that seemingly come out of nowhere. Whenever I'm amongst trees and water, I feel like i'm at home.
Thank you so much, Nova.

Water is my playground, my soul, my friend... and I took that photo. Glad we have this wonderful thing in common!

"Water unceasingly changes shapes and transforms itself. It is thus a model out of which everything can be born. Water, consequently, becomes a symbol of fertility that can be found in all the myths and all the religions. Beings and things are born of water. Water also possesses medicinal virtues. Some waters are recognized miraculous powers capable of healing the bodies.

It is also a source of purification. Purification for the individual beings but also for the whole of mankind. The Flood is a founding episode in numerous civilisations. Among Australia's Aborigenes, a giant frog is said to have swallowed the Earth's water to release it only when the other animals, dying with thirst, made it burst out laughing. The Flood in a re-creation of the world. One emerges from water in order to be reborn."
 

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i'm a christian, but a muslim friend invited me to do ramadan with her for the month, so i followed some elements of it. i didn't eat during the daylight hours, and i woke at dawnish and spent 3 to 4 hours praying every morning that month. man though, like a week in it was like i'd pushed through and the contrast in myself was stunning. it felt like an awakening. it was a year ago that i did that, but i felt like it broke through some of the heaviness and depression. i don't know that i could prescribe for someone else the specific recipe, but i do know that 1) i do much better if i have chunks of time alone versus scattered times alone 2) having consistent chunks of time to meditate, pray, write, and worship was/is beautiful and i think needed especially for infj's 3)i found meditating on a picture to be really helpful--my pic of choice is of myself resting my head on jesus
 

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Your perspective here assumes an objective truth and that this truth is not connected to the social guidance of morality. This could be interpreted Te-Fi instead of Ni-Fe. Unless your social loyalties were more closely tied to a subculture or competing culture whose values you embrace above those of an alternate cultural complex. If this were the case you would still be using Fe but quixotically in the service of an assumption of truth by association.

Let's assume for a moment that you think science is "right" and religion is "wrong". This actually is unscientific because it makes an epistemological assumption about the applicability of "science" as a method of inquiry into a domain for which it lacks any sufficient vocabulary or capacity to test - namely "meaning". It is unscientific because science is a method of inquiry that yields no result as to the felicity of its findings. It only describes what is. To think that what *is* should govern what you ought do is to commit a naturalistic logical fallacy. Just because something *is* a certain way does not mean it ought to be that way. Elevating a method of inquiry to esteeming its results as dictating moral action is not to yield to the results of the method but rather an act of totemizing the method itself.

Ni-Fe can never be a wholly scientific cognitive pairing in this regard. It is a rational rather than empirical pairing as it deals with axioms and not empiricism. Now I'm not saying that totemization of inquiry is bad. But I am saying that it is important to understand that totemizing science as a sovereign guide to moral import is unscientific.
I'm NOT saying something is right and asserting that is not science. Connecting morality to religion is insane, every modern social movement has been from secular, modern causes, I'm referring to women's rights, end of racism, etc.

Ask any psychologist, religion has very little to do with morality, it's from parenting, society, and just growing up. Science does not connect morality, religion helps morality slightly but without it and with other things such as philosophies and movements like gay rights, humanism, etc is MUCH more healthy and objectively true.

Also, should people believe in something without any objective evidence just because it makes them feel better? And atheism does not equal science.
 

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hey AtheistGuy :)

I found your quote that every modern, social movement has been from secular, modern causes interesting. i'm not much of a history buff myself, but it does seem that the civil rights movement had some religion in it's fuel. the slavery abolition too. of course, a lot of nasty stuff has been fueled by religion too--it being used to justify slavery for one.
 

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hey AtheistGuy :)

I found your quote that every modern, social movement has been from secular, modern causes interesting. i'm not much of a history buff myself, but it does seem that the civil rights movement had some religion in it's fuel. the slavery abolition too. of course, a lot of nasty stuff has been fueled by religion too--it being used to justify slavery for one.
Justification doesn't equal cause. Some of them may have been that way (MLK is a good example) but the cause was from the idea of equal rights, the enlightenment, and simply being mistreated. Religion was often used to justify these causes.

However the bible is very sexist and degrades women, endorses rape, slavery, incest, and stoning for absolutely ridiculous crimes. The golden rule and other ideas as such were in all people and not found in religion, unlike specific rules.
 
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