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Please enlighten me.
 

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Oh man, I HATE Obama. =P

I've seen a couple of threads but not many on this, actually. Hardly enough to be 'universal'. But its a nice change, imo. I've a bit of a passion against over-stimulated hype, no matter what the subject.
 

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hmmm...I've noticed this too. I'm not an Obama fan by any means, but I feel people are just being really rude and spiteful in their comments about the subject. *shrug* Whatever. Most of the time, the problems people blame/d on Bush/Obama are ones that Congress has power over not them. I personally feel our Two-party political system is in the toilet anyways, and ANY president we elect is going to bomb because the division is too great. We didn't listen to Washington when he told us to stay away from political parties. Our loss. :dry:
 

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Politics is all about being "rude and spiteful" - regardless of the what system we're talking about - in the present day, and the history of the world. No difference, democracy/dictatorship...if the latter, your head would be more likely to roll, that's all. That's the game, it'll never change.
 

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Please enlighten me.
in the ENTJ forum or the whole place? I would imagine ENTJ's don't like him because (warning: stereotype alert) tend to be business oriented, and Obama's policies tend to stifle creativity in a business setting, thus, I would imagine, putting a hurting on the ENTJ's.

I think a lot of people hate Obama though because its cool to hate him and that makes them look smart. Personally, I "nothing" Obama. I don't think he's real good, but at the same time, I certainly don't dislike him. I don't pay much mind to it anyways since nobody is going to elect a libertarian.
 

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Explain the universal Obama hate I see displayed here.
We haven't noticed much if any at all on the ENTJ subforum. That doesn't mean there isn't Obama hate, only that it isn't displayed.

If it matters, my current displeasure would be aimed at any progressive in office. Progressives want to eliminate moral restraints, implement a command economy, be more friendly with theocrats and despots and less friendly with the free countries. I'm what's known as a conservative in North America, which means I favor the free movement of goods and services, take our moral inheritance seriously, and want to be more friendly with the free countries and much less friendly, if not hostile, to theocrats and despots.

A lot of the hate I suspect comes from the Ron Paul crowd, which infests the internet, and their fellow travelers. L-Ron is touted as a Messiah, and they envy the cult of personality that has been constructed around Obama, once a mere street agitator, ahem, community organizer. Which prompts an even more interesting question: why are Americans in the business of searching for political messiahs these days?

My explanation: Americans enjoyed peace and prosperity during the last five decades of the 1900s, and take it for granted, like a law of nature. War and poverty are the norms in human history; any peace and prosperity is achieved through blood and sweat. Yet our liberal culture, which has only been around a few decades, ironically teaches that we can achieve strength and prosperity by turning the other cheek and acting in a tolerant, non-materialistic way.

So, under this worldview, events like 9-11 and the Great Recession aren't supposed to happen; we have a right to be happy. If other countries are filling up with religious fascists, or if recessions are inevitable from time to time, that means we forfeit a bit of self-determination and control. Rather than face up to this unpleasant possibility, many believe that we're just not morally pure enough-- if we get even more submissive, and even more tolerant, then other countries will like us, and workers will be happier, and everything will be back to normal. Just like abracadabra.

This means that the world we desire can automatically be had, if we can just eliminate a THEM that is preventing the NEEDY from having it. Progressives use this template in obvious ways, though the L-Rons have been using it against Obama-- if we could just get rid of big bad evil government, mind our own business, etc. etc. then everything will be just like it was before 911. These are rationalist outlooks which I believe do not take a broad enough view of human history and human nature.
 

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I havent seen any threads in the ENTJ forum about Obama. We've been too busy answering threads from those who are trying to figure us out.
 

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I feel kinda sorry for him actually.

People gave 8 years to Bush to screw things up, and they have not even given Obama over a year to screw things up. I think he really is trying, but geeze folks, he's only one man and no matter what you learn in school, one man can't do a whole hell of a lot actually. He has to wade through all those others(ie:republicans and democrat senators) and he does have rules he has to follow.

Give the man a break. (
 

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I feel kinda sorry for him actually.

People gave 8 years to Bush to screw things up, and they have not even given Obama over a year to screw things up. I think he really is trying, but geeze folks, he's only one man and no matter what you learn in school, one man can't do a whole hell of a lot actually. He has to wade through all those others(ie:republicans and democrat senators) and he does have rules he has to follow.

Give the man a break. (
Which alternate universe do you hail from?
 

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The universe of knowing how the government actually works instead of the one where I have fantasies of how it should work.
Yes, how Government should work is totally unimportant and how Government does work is the only thing thats unimportant. The view that everything is always how it is is clearly what has led humanity to such rapid technological process. Or maybe it isn't, and you should stfu.

As for Obama and ENTJs, "stereotypically", ENTJs don't want looking after (This would count for Bush too, though...) and they don't want to be forced to look after another person. Also because a lot of ENTJs are either enneagram 8s or 3s which isn't a personality that you'd associate with Left-Statism (you might associate 3 with Right-Statism... I wouldn't associate 8 with any type of Statism at all.) It's not to say that ENTJ isn't compassionate or sharing, it's simply that they don't want to be forced to behave in a certain manner. ENTJ is a very "independent" personality type. Left-Statism is a very "subservient" personality type.
 
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I havent seen any threads in the ENTJ forum about Obama. We've been too busy answering threads from those who are trying to figure us out.

Is all the hate coming from Hannibal Lecter? Didn't he used to be ENTJ, but then went INTJ or something like that? I wouldn't consider his opinions to be an accurate sample of the NTJ community as a whole. He is like this forum's version of Fox News.

So I guess that the pan-ENTJ Obama hate is nonexistent.
 

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A bit OT here; Hannibal is a good debater and starts threads to get people thinking. But yes as Mutatio wrote, the pan-ENTJ Obama hate is non-existent.
 

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none of us REALLY knows what is going on behind closed doors so everyones opinion is null and void in my view.
 

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Yes, how Government should work is totally unimportant and how Government does work is the only thing thats unimportant. The view that everything is always how it is is clearly what has led humanity to such rapid technological process. Or maybe it isn't, and you should stfu.


Maybe I should STFU? What are you, 15? That was a very mature thing to say. Great way to have a debate also.

Are you aware that your post makes little sence? I believe that you meant to say that 'how the government does work is the only thing thats important". This is true. Please re-read my post as obviously you have not understood exactly what I was trying to get across here.

If you really have issues with him, maybe you should read the 'Why we hate Obama" thread, and vent your spleen there? I am possitve you will receive many thanks.



 

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Maybe I should STFU? What are you, 15? That was a very mature thing to say. Great way to have a debate also.

Are you aware that your post makes little sence? I believe that you meant to say that 'how the government does work is the only thing thats important". This is true. Please re-read my post as obviously you have not understood exactly what I was trying to get across here.

If you really have issues with him, maybe you should read the 'Why we hate Obama" thread, and vent your spleen there? I am possitve you will receive many thanks.
Yep, so when you're patronising, that's cool, when I'm patronising, I'm 15. Glad that that's been cleared up.

No, that's not what I meant to say at all. How Government "does" work is scarcely relevant. Everyone should have a working knowledge of how their Government operates, i.e. how legislation is passed, how lobbying works, so on and so forth, but more importantly, people ought to think about how their Government ought to work.

You can not dismiss criticism of Government by "Well that's how it is." That is a statement of fact, not a statement of desirability. Politics is largely a normative issue, i.e. the most debates occur on normative things, as opposed to descriptive.
 
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