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decorum worshiper
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Theres always been an underlying uncertainty, ENTP has felt like the best fit at times, but certainly never a perfect fit. I also test as tons of different types, its very inconsistent. All the xNxP's. I've even considered types such as ISTP or ESTP before. Not that online tests are really a great indicator. Anyways, the doubt has crept in again, and I want to explore this some more. I'm not limiting myself, don't use how I type myself as a guide, type me whatever way you see fit regardless of how far away from ENTP it is.

1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

Authenticity and individuality are pretty important to me. At times I find myself relating to Fi/Te as much if not more than Ti/Fe. Also, I'm socially introverted. I spend lots of time on my own, and have no problem with it. I could say I'm even unsure about being an Ne-dom. Honestly, I think my personality has a lot of contradictory aspects to it, which makes it pretty tough to pin down a type. I do get energized from being where lots of stuff is going on, or from meeting new people, its fun for me, but on the other hand like I said I can spend lots of time on my own and be completely content. I enjoy theoretical conversations and philosophy as much as the next self proclaimed N on this site, but I equally enjoy sports and physically challenging activities like rock climbing and mountain biking. I have a bit of an adrenaline junky side, an Se side. But perhaps that is a product of where and how I grew up and not my personality type. I grew up in Maine, my family was always camping, hiking doing something outside, I was also always playing sports as a kid.

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?

I don't know if I have a direct answer to that.

One side of me yearns for excitement, novelty and adventure. I'm happy when I can look forward to something new or interesting. Its about putting myself in positions where things will not get stale or I won't feel trapped.

I'd also say I have a yearning for not only interesting experiences but also interesting people. If I find someone I think is interesting I tend to form a friendship with them quickly, and with an intensity.

I have a bit of a yearning to see what my full potential is. I don't think I've come close to it in my life, so theres a bit of a yearning to start working towards it with more consistency.

I also don't really know how to describe this one, but I'd say I have a yearning to assert myself into the world. Its like, if the world is a swimming pool where the water is still, I want to be a rock dropped into it that causes ripples throughout.

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.

No example immediately jumps out.

I guess sometimes it could be something as simple as like when I was on a bike ride this afternoon. Its a beautiful day, the air is crisp, blowing in my face but feels good. My thoughts are just wandering all over the place in a pleasant day dream. Things are just peaceful and serene in the moment.

The day before or the 1rst day of traveling somewhere cool I'm always in an incredible mood. The anticipation of it sometimes is almost as great as when I finally get there. I haven't traveled in forever though, the last time I left the country was nearly 4 years ago now.

Also what jumps out now are certain conversations I've had, the type where you both lose track of time, it could be with good friends or someone you just met. They go all over the place, they jump from philosophy to the goofiest things in the world and back again. And when you're done you feel like you've actually gained a different and interesting perspective. Those conversations are rare as fuck, but super satisfying.

4) What makes you feel inferior?

I don't mind sucking at things, unless its something that I like and I'm interested in, but if I suck at something I enjoy then I end up feeling inferior. And have a humungous urge to stop sucking.

5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)

I make small decisions on the fly. Whether its gut feeling or just quickly going through all my options. This actually isn't how I always was, there have been times when I've been pretty indecisive even about small decisions. But I've come to realize that just going with a first instinct with those decisions usually works out best anyways, and I don't want to labor over every single decisions.

I don't make pros and cons lists, I think that inevitably misses the heart of the issue. Not every decision is going to be something you can you can calculate just by seeing if there are more pros or cons.

For big decisions I like to spend some time, maybe a couple hours just completely by myself analyzing all sides of the decisions. I can be a bit of an over analyzer. Then, there will be inevitably things I'm still unsure about, and I'll talk it through with someone else, bounce my ideas off of them.

I definitely consider other people in my decision making process. But if someone offers unsolicited advice to me when I didn't ask for it sometimes I can get stubborn and go the opposite way with it, and either completely disregard their advice or do something contrary to it. I like having full control over what I'm doing in my life, and other people trying to push me in a certain direction is a massive turn off.

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?

If its a project in a subject I'm interested in, or I like the teacher or class then I will be far more invested. I'm not overbearing when it comes to projects or group work, though. I don't have to be the leader of the project, although I don't mind if I am either. My emphasis would be on getting to know the people I'm working with and seeing what cool ideas they have that could make the project awesome.


9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?

My room is messy, my desk is messy, car is messy. My notebooks have notes, writings and sketches all over the place. I'm not traditionally organized. But I think my mind can be fairly organized. Also I don't lose things often, I know where everything is within the mess. Organization has been a bit of a problem for me in the past, but its not really a problem for me any more. I care about being functional, I don't give a fuck about being organized. There is a massive difference.


10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?

This is a Ti vs Te question, I assume?

I lean towards the Ti answer here. I try to see if the principles make sense to me.

I can believe in things that aren't really substantiated by external evidence as long as they have a basis of sound logic. Its much more interesting for me to pick apart the logic anyways, instead of researching facts.


11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?

Definitely staying true to myself.

Although other peoples needs are still on my radar. But attending to them doesn't give me harmony. Its more like a chore, that I'll do because I like them or empathize with them, where as being true to myself is very enjoyable.

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?

I definitely prefer one on one or a small group rather than a large group. The conversation is usually much more interesting and can go in depth much faster.

Also, when I was younger I would say I leaned more towards just speaking before thinking, but now I'd say I'm a mix. Sometimes I want to word things in a precise way so people know exactly what you mean, and that requires a bit of thinking before hand.

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?

I do not jump directly into action. I do a quick analysis of the situation first before jumping into action.

I think action and words can both be powerful, so no action does not speak louder than words.

14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?

If its a show I'm very into, I watch the show and then meet up with my friends afterwards. Otherwise I just turn off the tv and meet up with my friends right away.

I do spend a lot of time by myself, like I said, but if I'm invited to do something with my friends I almost always go.

15) How do you act when you're stressed out?


Bursts of anger or emotion. Being upset or frustrated with everyone. Wanting desperately just to escape for a bit, be by myself and chill out.

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?

People who are too self assured. People who are histrionic. People who hide who they really are in the name of fitting in.

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?


Their ideas and philosophies. My ideas and philosophies. Music. Funny or outrageous stories, preferably from their own life.

18) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?

I'd spend the first part of the day just relaxing. Maybe read, listen to some music, take a bike ride. I'd then go hang out with some friends. We'd just goof around for a bit. And then in the evening there would be something exciting, like a concert or party, I'd meet a couple new people there. And afterwards I'd spend the rest of the night getting to know them.
@arkigos

I enjoy your typings. They're in depth and interesting. So if you want to I'm inviting you to give me a shot.
 

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I'm really bad at typing, but I'm guessing Fi-Te from this.
I suspect Ne-Si as well.
I'm not getting a strong feeling about which of these four functions is strongest.
Sorry :(
 
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@Sporadic Aura

Hmm, you remind me a bit of myself. I'm not saying you are an ENFP, I am simply saying you show quite a lot of Ne/Si (Ne in particular) and possibly Fi/Te, although I could see Ti/Fe working for you as well.

I'm an ENFP, although I consider myself an outgoing introvert. This is because, while I love socializing and talking to people, I need a break, at least once a day. I require time to think about life, and just time to play around with ideas. I also do like my alone time, a lot. This is actually quite common with Ne-doms, because Ne is not focused on people, it's focused on being creative, original, and playing around with the possibilities of the external world. I'm sure you've heard all about this. It's also why INP's are often referred to as the most introverted of the introverts. This is because their dominant function is one of opinions separated from the outside world, as well as the fact that their main extroverted function isn't people or production oriented, causing them to be rather separated, emotionally and mentally. This is why I settled on ENFP, because I'm positive my Ne is stronger than my Fi, and because I'm significantly more social than an INFP.

Now, addressing you. You definitely are an Ne dominant, I really wouldn't doubt that. I have the same problems with organization. I care about being able to get things done, and being productive, however I dislike planning and organizing...with perhaps, a passion. From what you've said, I wouldn't doubt it. I also see a lot of Ne in you, along with a strong introverted judging function.

Addressing Se, any type can enjoy physical activity. Who wouldn't? The difference is that while Se is focused on playing with the tangible, real, and current aspects of the present moment, Ne is focused on the intangible, abstract ideas and possibilities of the present moment. A common sign of strong Ne is a lot of "what ifs" in your normal thought pattern. For example, when I look around, I'll get ideas from practically anything. Like, "What if people had beaks," or "What if 1+1 actually equaled 11?" or something of that sort. Your perceiving functions have nothing to do with enjoying physical activity, enjoying physical activity is a natural part of human nature. I used to do dance, I absolutely loved it, that doesn't have any correlation with my type. If that were the case, all SP's would be extremely in shape, and all NP's would be morbidly obese. Which is of course, not the case. :p

Addressing ENTP or ENFP, I'd need to have a bit more in depth analysis on your judging functions for that. I'm pretty well versed in the functions, but I'll need to ask more. It's a good thing to note that both ENTPs and ENFPs have feeling functions in the aux/tert place, which thus means that both have decently developed, but not extremely developed feeling functions. Also, keep in mind that an ENFP with an Ne-Te loop (i.e. me) can come off more like an ENTP in the sense that they're less emotional and more logical. I'm one of those, due to the amount of Te pressure school has given me.

So, I would mainly focus on Fi/Te or Ti/Fe for you. If you want, I can ask more questions.
 

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The forum ate my very lengthy reply and I am furious!

I'll have to try again, which might actually be for the best. However, I'll offer a spoiler that I get the impression that you @Sporadic Aura are an ExFP and I'll start of with a question I had repeatedly in reading your answers.

What does your 'analysis' look like? What do you mean by it? Be specific. How do you analyze something?

Also, I want to know about your priorities and role in talking philosophy with people. What do you most want to get out of it? Be specific.
 

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Definite Fi-Te. It's kind of obvious all the way starting from Q1. I would think ESFP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thats frustrating. I enjoy your very lengthy replies. Give it another go when you can!

The forum ate my very lengthy reply and I am furious!


Also, I want to know about your priorities and role in talking philosophy with people. What do you most want to get out of it? Be specific.
Unfortunately its fairly rare that I actually get the chance to talk about philosophy. I have a small group of friends that are game, plus my brother and my grandfather, but its still rare. I'd say my biggest priority is just expanding my perception. For example awhile ago my buddy and I were talking about free will, and if there was a way to prove it existed, he brought up some ideas I never considered before. Thats what I'm after. I want something new and interesting to digest. It also really helps me to bounce my thoughts off of other people. I'll explain some half-baked idea I've been working on by myself. They will be like "hmm, but what about this, this and that", then we'll have a debate back and forth until it is more refined. I have 1 friend who is very well versed in philosophy, and its especially helpful talking with him, because sometimes my half-baked theories that I came up with kind of on my own actually relate to actual philosophical concepts.

Definite Fi-Te. It's kind of obvious all the way starting from Q1. I would think ESFP.
Can you elaborate?

Also, I'd like to point out that in question 1 I was purposefully highlighting my qualities that would contradict an ENTP typing. It asked me why I had doubts, so I embellished the things that make me doubt.
 

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I was also anxiously waiting @arkigos reply. I've thought for a long time you were an Se dom, particularly Se-Fi-Te. You're short, sweet, to the point. I'm not as rich in Jung as he is, so I often trust his judgment over mine. I'm making progress though.

What's interesting is half of what you discuss doesn't register with me. Asserting the world? Adrenaline junky? High on life? I never quite understood that. I like doing things for the "thrill of it", but it's usually a curiosity satisfaction (what is it like?), some form of freedom/expression, or perspectives I can gain. I prefer relaxation over a physical high. You demonstrate attentive awareness of and the desire to explore tangible reality in all it's depth through and through.

I can assure you, environment doesn't effect personality cognition. Not in my opinion (I welcome an opposing argument). Development, sure, but that's another story. I grew up in Montana, full of nature, mountains and national parks, and spent my early childhood swimming, hiking, biking and camping. I quite enjoyed it. I'm still Si-Ne.

Some of what you mentioned sounds like Ti (Q10, Q12, Q13, overall emphasis on analysis) but most of it sounds like Fi-Te. Is the idea of Ti-Fe wrapped in your brain? Briefly stated and repeated desires for authenticity and individuality, wanting to make your own decisions without others directing them, do what you're personally into, distrust or dislike towards fitting in? Attending to others is a chore?

Yeah, ESFP.
 

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Can you elaborate?

Also, I'd like to point out that in question 1 I was purposefully highlighting my qualities that would contradict an ENTP typing. It asked me why I had doubts, so I embellished the things that make me doubt.
I meant starting from Q1 all the way to the end. Not just Q1.

For Se-Ni it's quite obvious. I see no Ne whatsoever. When describing past events you are objective like no Si is. Overall your questionnaire gives an impression of enjoying "reality" and wanting to explore it further.

For Fi-Te, I see absolutely no Fe. And yes, for a healthy ETP (and you seem like very healthy and mature person) it's a big thing. Any ethics mentioned comes from you and centers back to you. For the tertiary Je agenda I see Te being clear - you emphasize (I'd even say over-emphasize) knowledge, your autonomy and competence, and pride yourself for expanding your world view.
 
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Sure, what questions do you have?
Eh, seeing what everyone else has said, I'm going to back on what I said before. I actually do think you're an ESFP now. You seem like an intellectual ESFP...or something (and yes, those exist.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I was also anxiously waiting @arkigos reply. I've thought for a long time you were an Se dom, particularly Se-Fi-Te. You're short, sweet, to the point. I'm not as rich in Jung as he is, so I often trust his judgment over mine. I'm making progress though.

What's interesting is half of what you discuss doesn't register with me. Asserting the world? Adrenaline junky? High on life? I never quite understood that. I like doing things for the "thrill of it", but it's usually a curiosity satisfaction (what is it like?), some form of freedom/expression, or perspectives I can gain. I prefer relaxation over a physical high. You demonstrate attentive awareness of and the desire to explore tangible reality in all it's depth through and through.

I can assure you, environment doesn't effect personality cognition. Not in my opinion (I welcome an opposing argument). Development, sure, but that's another story. I grew up in Montana, full of nature, mountains and national parks, and spent my early childhood swimming, hiking, biking and camping. I quite enjoyed it. I'm still Si-Ne.

Some of what you mentioned sounds like Ti (Q10, Q12, Q13, overall emphasis on analysis) but most of it sounds like Fi-Te. Is the idea of Ti-Fe wrapped in your brain? Briefly stated and repeated desires for authenticity and individuality, wanting to make your own decisions without others directing them, do what you're personally into, distrust or dislike towards fitting in? Attending to others is a chore?

Yeah, ESFP.
You thought I was an Se-dom before you even saw this thread? Thats interesting to me. Was it just because you thought I made concise and to the point posts? A certain vibe I give off?

Anyways, I'm not sure if my enjoyment for physical highs correlates to Se cognition or not, actually. What I enjoy about them most is the challenge and the rush, its about pushing what I think I'm capable of doing. Skiing is an example, I ski pretty intense terrain. If I see a trail I think might be slightly above my skill level I have an intense urge to try it anyways. I enjoy having to exert all my energy and effort and the adrenaline rush that comes with it. Which seems more focused on a personal challenge than a desire to explore the immediate environment. On the other hand it still does require an immediate manipulation of the environment. I need to be constantly aware of the lay out of the trail and make snap decisions about my best path down, which is something I enjoy, and there are aspects of the experience such as the view from the top of a mountain or the feeling of my skis slicing through the snow that I also enjoy, which come from the immediate environment.

If I'm an ExxP, which seems like the consensus and I think is pretty likely anyways, that means my lead function is a perceiving function (Ne or Se), the judging function pair will be in the middle of my stack. Which might be why its pretty hard for me to determine which pair I use. I've read descriptions trying to compare the "obvious" differences and it just left me more confused. I'd relate equally to both. I feel like saying I favor Fi because I value individuality or similar reasons might be too simple, might be just typing based off of stereotypes.
 

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@Sporadic Aura -

I think you show tertiary Te, which I will try to explain. Ti is abstract and deals in impressionistic systems. Te is objective and concrete, and operates mainly through practical observation. In your post, you never went abstract. Instead, you iterated over the facts, or observations, that were applicable to the question and presented them as if to committee. You might think that is just implicit in the exercise, but it is not. It is Te.

A Ti type, conversely, would do much of the work themselves, internally, and what you'd get would be the product. The sense is that they'd already parsed it all down and you are getting their (often convoluted) impressions and results. This can be frustrating, especially with inferior Ti types (FJs) because for them Ti is a slave to greater concerns (such as Si myth or Ni images) and used toward those ends. In a sense, the abstract internalized logic of Ti is used to manipulate or justify the system to fit whatever ideas of it the person already has... such as stereotype or whatever. "My friend is so sensitive and INFPs are so sensitive so he is SUCH an INFP.. I'll tell him that and it will really help him with X or Y." or, "My mom is such an X, so she must be an ESFJ because Y". But, again, it seems like most of the work is done off-screen and the Ti type is actually just turning it around to you as if they were the teacher. They aren't putting it to committee, they aren't stating it objectively. You have to get after them and the conversation almost becomes a debate in the realm of logic itself. You start quoting fallacies at them or talking really really abstractly.... as if the whole of the conversation is on the SYSTEM itself.

Te is totally different. They are just painfully objective and face-value. "Everyone said that Se was this, so I typed myself Se based on that. Are you saying it is different now?" and Te types can be quite impatient when things get too meanderingly abstract or inapplicable. Delving into the abstract system is all well and good, but could you just give it to me straight?

So, I judge you Te because you are not internalizing or abstracting the logic at all. We aren't having to retrace your logic back to some objective place that you've since left far behind. No, you are giving it to us as is, at face-value.. and I suspect a great deal of the onus of parsing that down will be our responsibility. I often see tertiary (and dominant) Te types as quite lazy in this regard, but again it is just objectivity and an unwillingness to abstract. The process of logic is delegated out to committee or to an expert and the Te simply judges it, objectively, when it returns and makes their decision based on that.

It seems to me that this is what you do.

I can and will go off about why Fi, but for now I am more interested in your view of Se.... you are talking about 'immediate environment' stuff as an argument against Se, and I want to say that it makes me think you are still thinking of Se in terms of intense-presence, which is not really accurate. It is true that Jung said that Se types would be in total awareness of their environment... but Jung and I do not agree on this... well, at least not in such strident terms.

I interact with a lot of Se-doms. A lot of my friends are Se-doms. My brother is an ESFP whom I typed an ENFP for a long time because of stereotypes in my brain. I find that Se-doms can be as oblivious as the rest of us, often as not.. though perhaps 'true' Se-doms are just as Jung says. Most of the Se-doms I associate with have a clear auxiliary function and are more well-rounded people. I've done a lot of tests with Se-doms and perception and I find that any talk of them being observationally focused is misleading.

Instead, consider this... Se is about CONTENT. Dynamic and varied content, not necessarily hyper-vivid... because it is variation and dynamics that are more important to the Se than intensity.... though in certain contexts intensity is also quite important. Experience is also an important word over, say, visceral content. Se types just want to gobble up all the content that there is to gobble up. They come across as ABSORBERS and engagers in whatever pursuit they trigger onto.

One Se dom will get into cooking, so he'll just want to absorb as much content about that as possible and engage it as much as he can. Or skiing. They will really 'get into it'. The Crossfit fad, btw, is driven by and exemplifies Se cognition. It is intense, NEW, pushes boundaries of the self, has an intensity, and doesn't require much in the way of long term drudgery. It is made for Se types, and ESxPs are all over it. Like, 100% of the people I have met who are into crossfit are ESxP. But, it isn't just physical stuff. The person I know who is most into Magic: the Gathering is an ESFP. He goes to all the tournaments and knows all the rules. He just gobbles it up, and then on to the next thing, and then back to that for a minute, and then onto the next thing.

There is strong feeling of intensity and enthusiasm and focus on the NEW with Se-dom. A sure sign of an Se-dom is a garage full of semi-abandoned hobbies.

So, if that is Se, then how is it different than Ne? Well, first and foremost Ne is not concerned with CONTENT. While Se-types have an endless thirst for content, the Ne has surprisingly little... instead, Ne types are far more concerned with, er, mutation? Iterating things into something else. Pushing things toward an expanded ideal. This is only hindered by content.

So, in the case of philosophy.... let's say I tell an ESFP and an ENFP that I am into philosophy. The ESFP will brighten up and claim to want to sit at my feet and soak it all up. They want to SOAK... and as much as their attention-spans will allow, they will do just that. Voraciously. The ENFP, disinterested in content, will seem to skip ahead of you and will immediately try to 'riff off' of some gist of what you might be talking about. They tend to be quite good at this and thus come across as quite intelligent or clever, being able to riff off of just a fragment of information and mutate it into something more expansive or just different. Content in the hands of an Ne is constantly in a state of generalization and flux and conversations move very quickly, with the subject matter itself changing as quickly as it is mentioned.

The Se-dom will want to absorb all of it, and might be quite energized by, if not occasionally lost by, this flurry of mutation and growth of the subject matter. They'll undoubtedly keep up, but for them the goal will always be primary to absorb the content being offered - and they will delight in how dynamic and NEW it all seems.


So, my philosophy question was meant to tease out whether you were the former or the latter, and I suspected and now more strongly suspect you are the former. ESFP.

It is funny because a LONG time ago, when I first encountered you on the forums, that is what I thought you were. I remember there was this thread where you posted your picture and I was mad at myself for immediately thinking ESFP. You were too natural in your person, too at home in the world. Not enough Si mythology and crust and deposit running around in that head, as an ENFP (which you typed yourself as at the time) would have.

I deferred judgment from then till now, but I am fairly satisfied that the ultimate answer will be ESFP. We still have to discuss Fi in more depth, and Ne, and Si... before I'd ever expect you to see it the same way. You are a tertiary Te and are going to need a ton of objective and frank evidence/logic to call it.... and I think you are an Se so I think you are going to want to absorb an incredible amount of more content/information before you are satisfied...

If you were an ENFP, your response would be as I said above, jumping ahead and moving the conversation - warping it into a new form. I don't think you will do that. I think you will just be ever thirstier for content to absorb.


( @angelcat might find this interesting )
 

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Anyways, I'm not sure if my enjoyment for physical highs correlates to Se cognition or not, actually. What I enjoy about them most is the challenge and the rush, its about pushing what I think I'm capable of doing. Skiing is an example, I ski pretty intense terrain. If I see a trail I think might be slightly above my skill level I have an intense urge to try it anyways. I enjoy having to exert all my energy and effort and the adrenaline rush that comes with it. Which seems more focused on a personal challenge than a desire to explore the immediate environment. On the other hand it still does require an immediate manipulation of the environment. I need to be constantly aware of the lay out of the trail and make snap decisions about my best path down, which is something I enjoy, and there are aspects of the experience such as the view from the top of a mountain or the feeling of my skis slicing through the snow that I also enjoy, which come from the immediate environment.
This is almost word-to-word what my ESFP friend talks about. About year and a half ago he was like "I'm think about going to China but like without a tour guide." and I was like "LOL sure, just don't insult communism and use protection" because I naturally took him thinking about it in a same way that I am thinking about making stargates. But nope, he freaking did. Just got up and did it. Came back alive with an array of stories ranging from entertaining to mildly horrifying. He is huge about challenging himself. Meanwhile, I am a slave to a physical comfort and this is my golden calf.

A bit of a stereotype but based on my real life interactions if you hear someone emphasizing authenticity you can be almost sure they are FPs. :tongue:

The sense is that they'd already parsed it all down and you are getting their (often convoluted) impressions and results. This can be frustrating, especially with inferior Ti types (FJs) because for them Ti is a slave to greater concerns (such as Si myth or Ni images) and used toward those ends. In a sense, the abstract internalized logic of Ti is used to manipulate or justify the system to fit whatever ideas of it the person already has... such as stereotype or whatever. "My friend is so sensitive and INFPs are so sensitive so he is SUCH an INFP.. I'll tell him that and it will really help him with X or Y." or, "My mom is such an X, so she must be an ESFJ because Y". But, again, it seems like most of the work is done off-screen and the Ti type is actually just turning it around to you as if they were the teacher. They aren't putting it to committee, they aren't stating it objectively. You have to get after them and the conversation almost becomes a debate in the realm of logic itself. You start quoting fallacies at them or talking really really abstractly.... as if the whole of the conversation is on the SYSTEM itself.
This my trait drives my ESFJ mother bananas and "typing" thing offends ISFJ friend.

I interact with a lot of Se-doms. A lot of my friends are Se-doms. My brother is an ESFP whom I typed an ENFP for a long time because of stereotypes in my brain. I find that Se-doms can be as oblivious as the rest of us, often as not.. though perhaps 'true' Se-doms are just as Jung says. Most of the Se-doms I associate with have a clear auxiliary function and are more well-rounded people. I've done a lot of tests with Se-doms and perception and I find that any talk of them being observationally focused is misleading.

Instead, consider this... Se is about CONTENT. Dynamic and varied content, not necessarily hyper-vivid... because it is variation and dynamics that are more important to the Se than intensity.... though in certain contexts intensity is also quite important. Experience is also an important word over, say, visceral content. Se types just want to gobble up all the content that there is to gobble up. They come across as ABSORBERS and engagers in whatever pursuit they trigger onto.
[...]
So, if that is Se, then how is it different than Ne? Well, first and foremost Ne is not concerned with CONTENT. While Se-types have an endless thirst for content, the Ne has surprisingly little... instead, Ne types are far more concerned with, er, mutation? Iterating things into something else. Pushing things toward an expanded ideal. This is only hindered by content.


I envy your ability to put your thoughts into the words this coherent. One day (I hope) my English will be good enough for that too.

It is true that Jung said that Se types would be in total awareness of their environment... but Jung and I do not agree on this... well, at least not in such strident terms.
This bothers me because I'd think if someone were to be 100% aware of environment all the time all the day they'd burn some sort of a fuse in their brain.

( @angelcat might find this interesting)
That didn't tag her properly. Now it does. @ doesn't work possibly namechange?
 

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decorum worshiper
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@arkigos

Thanks for that post, it got me thinking in a few different directions. I don't have a reply quite yet, but I plan on hopefully making one soon. I still have a few objections or doubts towards being an Se-dom. It might take some effort to word them in the way I want to though. My next post might be pretty long and rambling, honestly, there are a few different things I want to explore now.
 

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decorum worshiper
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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
@arkigos

I think I now have a more complete understanding of Se. Se devours, that is its essence. It devours experiences, ideas, content, that’s what it does. It wants to take something interesting and explore it completely. Explore the entirety of it, until something more interesting comes along and then it wants to explore the entirety of the new thing.

What is the Ne contrast to that? Wanting to take something interesting, use bits and pieces of it, discard the rest and use the bits and pieces to create something new? The essence of Ne is not devouring, its morphing? How does this play out in an Ne-doms approach to life? If the example of an Se-dom is a garage full of half abandoned hobbies, what is the equivalent example of an Ne-dom?

The thing is part of the Se description does fit me. At times I’ve been a bit of a devourer of content and experiences. I like to soak things up, as you put it. Although the idea of Se doesn’t resonate with me. It feels empty in a sense. I think strong Se-users have a similar style of engaging with the world. I was flooded with examples of strong Se-users I knew in real life, it was an epiphany of sorts, "aha! that is what Se looks like, that person is clearly a strong Se-user". They all have a similar way of engaging with the world. I'd describe it as expansive, but also an element of emptiness. Its as if they got lost in the content they are devouring. I don't know if describing it as empty will make sense to you, but that is what came to mind. More importantly the idea of Se doesn't really resonate with me. Although I completely realize some of the aspects describes parts of how I tend to be.

I actually completely remember that interaction from way back when you thought I was an ESFP, I remember the exact picture and everything.

Grass Tree Summer Fun Adaptation

The feeling of being "natural in my own person" and "at home in the world" is completely right for that photo, thats exactly how I felt. That feeling isn't consistent though, it comes in short bursts. That picture was taken on a perfect day, while I was relaxing with friends and due to other things was in a particularly good mood. I think a lot of the time I might have "background noise" or "crust" or however you'd describe it, but on occasion it all melts away and I feel completely at ease.

I feel I have a good grasp on Se, but I don't have a comparable confident grasp on Ne yet to compare it to. To see if Ne is something that resonates with me in a more complete way.
 

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decorum worshiper
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Anyways, I think this back and forth is more helpful than just answering questions in the questionnaire. It helps me get a better understanding of the functions. And yeah, I've tried doing some reading on my own, but its never very clear cut for me. Talking with actual people, particularly about things related to me own life is very helpful. Like, I think my understanding of Se skyrocketed just from reading the last couple posts from you guys.

I don't want it to seem like I'm putting on the work onto you guys. Its just that I feel your understanding of the functions and MBTI is much more complete than mine is. I still want to explore Ne/Si. And explore Fi/Te vs Ti/Fe a little bit before I'm satisfied.
 
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