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Discussion Starter #1
I'm perceived, and wish to be perceived, different from what I am. In elementary and middle school, I was that akward, silly, class-clown/geeky kid. At the moment, I'm a Sophmore in Highschool. I make an effort to be seen differently from what I am, to put out a vibe, so to speak.

At school, I'm
•Captain of the soccer team
•Act less intelligent and eager in class. Much less.
•Got suspended last year for sex in the bathrooms
•The best groomed of almost all the straight guys
•Been dating a Junior that's on the cheerleading squad for a few months
•Center of all the parties. All of the ones worth going to, at least.
•The "badasses" of the gang-ish groups don't mess with me, after I beat two of them up at once. They started it.
•Tons of drama happened between the girls over me, that's one of the reasons why I'm not dating in my grade. And my girlfriend is hot. And surprisingly intelligent for a cheerleader (stereotypes :eek: ). As some side commentary, my Mom (ESFJ) was cheerleading captain and prom queen turned lawyer, turned psychiatrist- and my Dad (INTJ) was a loner, turned philosophy/religion major, turned layer. Maybe it runs in the family :O


At home, and out of school?
•Crazy into debating politics, religion, and philosophy.
•Spend 90% of my unoccupied free-time leading a PVP clan in Minecraft.
•Plays online diplomacy.
•This shit.
•AT school, I'm in the Center for International Studies Magnet, taking 2-5 APs a year as required by it's curriculum. It's not a segregated population magnet, so very few people outside of the program know I'm in it.
•Comedy Central is always on in the background.
•I'm probably one of the most obvious ENTPs you'll meet.


Now, I don't put on the guise to "fit in". I could care less about that, if it was the only factor involved. My sole motivation is to distance myself from the negative experiences I had socially in early-education. It took alot of working out, and learning mannerisms and characteristics of those I wished to emulate, and I'd done it. My motivation is to be successful, to conquer the challenge presented by traditionalist, anti-intellectual society, bla bla bla. Pretty much everyone's a bunch of sheeple anywho, might as well exploit that.

Point is, do any of you other ENTPs act much differently depending on the environment you're in, if you see said environment as hostile- or a challenge to br accepted and conquered?
 
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I position myself as more professional and successful than most of my peers. I can back it up, but I also consciously make sure they start to assume it. I used to just do my own thing and let people form their own opinions, but it may have taken me way too long to realize you should influence their opinions and it makes everything so much easier.
 

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Yeah, that's very similar to what I'm referring to. Some say to be yourself, but the pragmatic approach is to be the person best suited to the situation. Adapt, Migrate, or Die, and stuff.

I'm curious if this is a shared approach among ENTPs.
 

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Yeah, that's very similar to what I'm referring to. Some say to be yourself, but the pragmatic approach is to be the person best suited to the situation. Adapt, Migrate, or Die, and stuff.

I'm curious if this is a shared approach among ENTPs.
I was stuck in a similar personal re-creation in high school. I was the first guy in the school to get to puberty, and I've been over 6' since 7th grade. I was labelled as the "big scary guy" real early on because everyone knew I'd been doing martial arts since I was 9 years old. It took a long while to mold that image into something usable. I don't think I managed to convince the whole school that I was a fun loving teddy-bear/playboy until my junior year. Since then I've always pulled off the role of social chameleon pretty well though. I'll mesh with just about any group I'm in if I feel like doing so (not that I always feel like it). As I get older though I've found ways of pushing others (subconsciously) into molding more into MY comfort zone so that I don't have to change as much.

Ahhhh the few benefits of age and experience :p
 

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INTPs do too.

I think both are chameleon like.

In short, I've been doing everything you're doing since you were in pull ups, but there can vbe consequences.

In my case I never made true friends. Even the ones I thought were true, I wasn't able to bond completely with because I had gotten to know them as this "other person" and when I was tired of being that person, I felt like I didn't even know the friends I had made.

Some of the personas were very close to the real me, in fact none were drastically different. It was just like I was expressing something inside of myself that was only temporary, I never felt like I had "one" self. I get bored, I like to change things. I get bored with my own thoughts and the thoughts of other people.

But, now I'm old and I really wish I had made some solid friends. I still use somewhat pf a facade because I'd be rejected from society without one, but I'm pretty much "myself". Still not entirely not sure who that is, I'm adjusting and not everyone likes me now.

I really fit it in with almost everyone before but it gets boring (and lonely).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
In short, I've been doing everything you're doing since you were in pull ups, but there can vbe consequences.
I take offense! I've always been loyal to the Huggies brand!

Joking aside, I'm interested to hear more about your experiences and ... whatever else you deem interesting. It's interesting to find this to be a trait of NTPs.
 
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I take offense! I've always been loyal to the Huggies brand!

Joking aside, I'm interested to hear more about your experiences and ... whatever else you deem interesting. It's interesting to find this to be a trait of NTPs.
:p

I think it has to do with not feeling attachments like a lot of people. No real "self', no true attachments, no obligation to be any one person. Also the perceiving function, always allowing you to see options and grow tired of your surroundings/scene/even self.

You see the same thing with sociopaths. I don't even think they're inherently evil, I relate to them in fact. I'm not capable of what they are capable of, simply because I wouldn't enjoy it but I understand how they develop into what they are.

But at the end of the day I would still like to have one real friend, I don't think they require or want that, some are just really narcissistic and see no need for it. That's why I regret not being myself years ago. I did drop the facade with a few people but we drifted apart.

Then when you get used to doing it it gets harder to drop, IME. I got so far away from whatever my actual self is at one point I had to withdraw completely.
 

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Oh, I feel certain that anybody of any type can relate to this. We're encouraged at a young age to conform to this collective consciousness. And acceptance feels good unfortunately. You mentioned having sex in the school bathrooms, but didn't make it clear if it was something you did to impress the girl (or whatever) or something you did for thine own self. If it's the latter, kudos to you. If it's the former, then you're a moron. :p

Any who, I'm also an ENTP sophomore in high school, but don't experience what you do at all. Possibly because I isolated myself from the majority of the school freshmen year?? I sort of dropped all consideration for their bull shit and decided to only associate with other "theatre-kids." Ha, I'm fifteen and jaded! I alternate between two people: the real me, who is blunt, fun-loving, and deeply interested in intellectual endeavors, then the socially acceptable me who blows smoke up people's asses to avoid them in the long run. After all, most of my peers are as emotionally developed as my two-year old niece. I'm seriously not interested in offending them.
 

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:p

I think it has to do with not feeling attachments like a lot of people. No real "self', no true attachments, no obligation to be any one person. Also the perceiving function, always allowing you to see options and grow tired of your surroundings/scene/even self.

You see the same thing with sociopaths. I don't even think they're inherently evil, I relate to them in fact. I'm not capable of what they are capable of, simply because I wouldn't enjoy it but I understand how they develop into what they are.

But at the end of the day I would still like to have one real friend, I don't think they require or want that, some are just really narcissistic and see no need for it. That's why I regret not being myself years ago. I did drop the facade with a few people but we drifted apart.

Then when you get used to doing it it gets harder to drop, IME. I got so far away from whatever my actual self is at one point I had to withdraw completely.
Being a chameleon, and having no sense of internal identity or self. This describes me to a T. I always wondered why this was. I have a habit of taking on traits of others just because I'm bored with myself. I never really learned who I am. Why is that? Why strive for change so much to change oneself?
 

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Why strive for change so much to change oneself?
I battle this, but I try not to let it surface. Is it safe to assume that we're the only ones who are conflicted? I have a feeling this extends to all types.
 

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@chittychitty LightNING and @Miss Willow, I think there are two part to that answer.

1) we have been conditioned since we were young to understand that we're not generally accepted for being who we are, because who we are is different from who everyone else is ... and they don't like that.

2) it's all part of the experiment/game. We enjoy gathering information, and what better place to gather information than in the shoes of a given person/group. To base your knowledge on first hand experience gives it amazing validity. On top of that it's an excellent manipulation tool.

That's just my 2 cents though.
 

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All people are creatures of masks, as we each reflect what others send us. The possibilities of conversation are limited and enhanced by other people's presences, whether we like it or not. There's too much biography between a person and their parents to have some conversations, for example, they'll inevitably end up in certain places and behaviors. We just happen to be self aware about it, and decide that it's a useful thing to do.

The negative aspects you experienced emotionally aren't going to repeat themselves, btw. You're past that, obviously. although you'll probably have entirely different problems instead of them...
 

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I battle this, but I try not to let it surface. Is it safe to assume that we're the only ones who are conflicted? I have a feeling this extends to all types.
I would say it's at more common with intuitives. I don't try to call sensors "simple minded" here but they do spend less time in their heads. An intuitive has usually examined themselves more than most and asked themselves a lot of questions about who they are.

It's self-involved but the process can actually lead you to become less-self-involved than most in the long run, IMO. But I was an extremely self-involved teenager(not uncommon).

Sensors do this to some degree but I find that they're just more content fitting in somewhere and not questioning it. Which isn't bad, this shouldn't sound derogatory because after an N type has gone on a head trip to figure themselves out they often come to the same conclusion.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
@Miss Willow , I highly doubt any straight, Highschool guy (that isn't a moral brick-wall) would classify such an act as something other than a positive thing "for thine own self". For the male population at the Highschool I attend, such an act is a major accomplishment, and to an extent- denotes a higher status. Hence my note of it.

All people are creatures of masks, as we each reflect what others send us. The possibilities of conversation are limited and enhanced by other people's presences, whether we like it or not. There's too much biography between a person and their parents to have some conversations, for example, they'll inevitably end up in certain places and behaviors. We just happen to be self aware about it, and decide that it's a useful thing to do.
So, are we the master chameleons, the self-aware conformists, or the pragmatic individualists?
 

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What I read in this post can be answered quite simply.

Why else would the characters in old plays be called "dramatis personae"? Being a "person" means it's all an act.
 

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So, are we the master chameleons, the self-aware conformists, or the pragmatic individualists?
In the end it all comes down to a matter of interpretation, doesn't it?
 

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I can be a chameleon when it suits me for short time periods. Over the years, I've learned to "turn it down," so to speak. I've also learned the hard way that being right all the time wasn't worth it. I've modified some behaviors that didn't work for me.
 

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I can be a chameleon when it suits me for short time periods. Over the years, I've learned to "turn it down," so to speak. I've also learned the hard way that being right all the time wasn't worth it. I've modified some behaviors that didn't work for me.
This is an excellent observation. You get more points across by not winning debates then you ever will trouncing people. The give and take aspect of discussion really drags people to one's side better than any amount of logic ever will. Glacially slow, but tremendously effective.
 
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