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Reading both the descriptions on here for Fe and Fi, I still can't figure out which one I use. I feel like I can relate to both of them.
Truth is, they think differently. They come to conclusions and learn in very different ways. This could be helpful to you, I made this post earlier for a different thread:Well I'm somewhat confused. I believe myself to be an INFJ for several reasons and I'm fairly sure of this, however after reading the descriptions of Fe and Fi I don't really identify with any of it. I am a emotionally turbulent person but I try to not let it show, I am extremely emotional and value solitude, yet I'm dependant on the approval and love of others. I claim to hate people but at the same time there is nothing else that interests me more than people, truly I love people but they hurt me. I try to restrain my feelings but at the same time I want to throw it in the face of others. When I'm feeling something, it is VERY evident on my face and body language, I am wholly unaware of this, I can't control it even if I try to. I'm like an open book yet nobody knows me. I have ideals but I find it incredibly selfish and plainly stupid to repress ideas from the outside. Shouldn't an inner ideal be based on some form of universal truth, and shouldn't that truth be easier to find with the input from the outside world? Yet my ideals are what compose me and I wouldn't give them up just because someone would disagree. If I don't have my ideals, I don't have anything. I value integrity and uniqueness over all else yet I can fall into a state of mind when all my actions are based on how I think others will percieve me. I am very selfish yet I repress myself and live for others. What the fuck am I? Fe or Fi or Fo or Fa none of it makes any sense at all.
How do i know? It's from the link I posted at the bottom of my first post.Honestly, that doesn't help me at all. The only part of it that I understood was the Step 1 INFJ, which I identify alot with. The rest just leaves me confused and makes me ask this: how do you KNOW this?
The last time I learned/was told something new it went like this: First I tried to figure out if it makes sense at all and if the informations is reliable. Secondly, I try to gather a personal understanding of the matter as to more deeply analyze it by shifting perspectives/applying it to hypothetical situations to see how it works out/figuring out whether it's an universal rule or a general occurence, and how it applies to me and the rest of the world. Thirdly, I try to come to a conclusion, either if it's false/true, whether the truth value is important at all and whether me believeing it or not makes any difference. If it doesn't, I leave it as an open question, meaning I am open to the possibility but don't fully adopt it into my worldview.
An individual of this type really only sees himself and his own life as reflected in his relationships with other people and in their opinions of himself. Hence he is very susceptible to praise and criticism. Encouragement will very quickly intensify and extend a reaction of feeling, while a comment or an objection which cannot be refuted may exert an exceedingly depressing influence on his spirits. Especially where some uncertainty might exist in regard to agreement between his own views and those generally current does he feel it absolutely necessary to prove to the world that his own feelings are right. While under the influence of powerful feelings, such people are able to exert great influence in their environment, particularly if they find support for their feelings in followers and onlookers. With most people of this type, however, feelings are expressed less in impressive actions than in the creation of a harmonious atmosphere. In their relationship with those around them they do their best to insist on friendliness and fair play, and they are usually conscientious and orderly even in small matters. Since they make similar demands on others, they frequently come into conflict with others, who do not always see the same necessity. Their punctiliousness may degenerate into pettiness, and occasionally such people may become very tiresome and pernickety about details. They will "go on" endlessly about something they feel to be wrong, and since they attach universal validity to the judgments of their feeling, they cannot stop trying to convince others. As a result, they may be tiring to those around them, in spite of their kindness and friendliness. In their persistence we see again the significance of will for this type. They may give themselves up with extraordinary self sacrifice and devotion to those whom they love, and to the purpose to which they have set themselves.
I'm curious why she would use 'fake', that's interesting. Could it be possible she's judging you for what she thinks is 'lying' to create that harmony, and that's something I'm seeing in your subtext? That would make sense if your main defense when she askes you if you really believe the things you're saying is it's to 'make them happy'. (My mother is an INFJ, tons of experience with this personally) Unfortunately, that is the definition of people pleaser, when you value someone's feelings over your own beliefs. It's up to you to justify to yourself that it's not a bad thing, because it's not when used responsibly. Which, since INFJ (if you subscribe to John Bebee, which I do) has Fe as their Parent function, I completely believe that you're using it responsibly.My INFP friend always thinks I am fake and calls me a people pleaser. But if creating harmony and making others happy are a true self value for me, in that case, I am not fake at all, I am being true to myself as if the group has reached an agreement and everyone is happy, then I am truly happy.
I am thinking why what I truly want has always to be important? It is only important for a Fi user but it might not be that important for a Fe user. What if I don't quite care what I want sometimes, when with a group, I just want to get along, why that's being fake? Since I genuinely just want to get along.
At the same time, I am thinking just because someone insists in having her own way different from the group, why would it make her selfish in nature since she's not taking away your freedom of choice?
Personally, two strong Fi users or two strong Ti users probably won't get along well unless their personal values/logics are magically aligned. But Fi can do well with Fe, and Fe can do well with Fe, IMO.
@stoicismINFJI'm curious why she would use 'fake', that's interesting.
As Fe user I can say that Fi is makes more sense. Fe is represented by liquid while Fi is solid. Individualism is better than group values. Groups tend to become so generic that they fail to include anybody properly. There is a point where compromise becomes so dominant that nobody gets what they wanted. I am INFJ and would like all to get along, but realistically I know that is a lie, you can't make everybody happy. The entire group needs to fall in together. That is tiresome and unlikely. Especially since your group will be diverse when it comes to personalities. They're not all gonna be Fe users.@stoicismINFJ
To me this is the classic Fi and Fe clash. Fi sees Fe users as fake and insincere and Fe usually see Fi as selfish and childish.
Fi users expect individuals to understand their own feelings and make decisions based on them. Fi wants to support friends’ Fi decisions, wants to say “Your inner harmony is important, and if all the world hates you. It’s important for you to do what you think is right (that doesn’t violate other’s values). I’m that kind of friend who will support your right to act on your conscience through thick and thin, no matter what other people think, but I won’t go against my own values, of course. ”
Fe users (I believe) expect others to see the group harmony as a higher value and is adept at figuring out other people’s reasons and feelings and often subjugate their own to create harmony in the group.
Another thing that struck me on my own post is how Fi just expects to “go it” alone, make decisions alone. That aloneness is something we feel from the get-go. But our joy comes from truly finding connection in this world, which for me I consider fairly hard to come by although tiny connections daily can keep me moving along with positivity. I’m pretty sure this is experienced differently by Fe and unfolds differently from feeling harmony to later some disharmony and eventual love of individuality, but I’m unsure.As Fe user I can say that Fi is makes more sense. Fe is represented by liquid while Fi is solid. Individualism is better than group values. Groups tend to become so generic that they fail to include anybody properly. There is a point where compromise becomes so dominant that nobody gets what they wanted. I am INFJ and would like all to get along, but realistically I know that is a lie, you can't make everybody happy. The entire group needs to fall in together. That is tiresome and unlikely. Especially since your group will be diverse when it comes to personalities. They're not all gonna be Fe users.
It is annoying to deal with INFPs because Fi leads to stubbornness but at the same time I admire that value. I know I can depend on Fi to remain solid throughout a deal, relationship etc. Fe is not reliable. I mean, it is in its existence, but the person behind it isn't, because it is constantly influenced by the ever changing whims of Fe.
It's probably why I have issues getting along with other INFJs. I get Fe, but I lose interest when I see someone running around exhausting themselves to please the group. Call me intellectually lazy, but I rather deal with a Fi user, they tend to be less worried about trying to please everybody. I'd say Fi is more honest. And I don't hate myself either. I temper my Fe and limit it to not become the "group zombie". But then again I am much better at 1 on 1 than groups so... eh.