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MOTM Feb 2012
ISTJ 9w1
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So I finally found some evidence to support my growing hypothesis that Enneagram is a more useful tool than MBTI when it comes to predicting relationship compatibility. In the book, "Sex, Love, and Your Personality: The Nine Faces of Intimacy," author Mona Coates and co-author Judith Searle used their clinical experiences in therapy to come up with the five most essential and fundamental elements to predict and analyze love, liking, and lust between two individuals. “It is these less known and unconscious factors that are so important for therapeutic insight and for predicting the long-term outcome of a love relationship.” The Five Factors (in order of importance) are:

  1. Compatible Lovemaps: Refers to the “mosaic of traits that make up, partly in our conscious mind but mostly in our unconscious, the picture of our ideal mate or lover. This conglomerate of traits may include many aspects of the personality, how a person behaves socially, certain critical values, race, religion and political persuasion; it often includes physical characteristics such as hair color, height, weight, body shape or a certain look.”
  2. High Levels of Psychological Health: Refers to your general mental health as well as your level of health within the enneagram system with Levels 1-3 being Healthy, 4-6 being Average, and 7-9 being Unhealthy.
  3. Matching Personality Subtypes : Refers to your dominant instinctual variant, either sexual (sx), social (so), or self-preservation (sp.)
  4. Harmonic Triad Match: Refers to your Harmonic Triad (how each type handles conflict, adversity, and situations in which our needs are not met.) Either Positive Outlook (Types 2, 7, 9), Reactive (Types 4, 6, 8), or Competency (Types 1, 3, 5.)
  5. Complimentary Connection Line: Refers to a connecting line in the enneagram diagram, i.e. a shared integration / disintegration line.
Note: The maximum number of factors that a couple can share is 4/5 because two people cannot share an integration / disintegration line and also be within the same Harmonic triad.

What is a “Lovemap”?
 
"[John] Money, a distinguished sex therapist and sex researcher, described the lovemap as a mosaic of traits that make up, partly in our conscious mind but mostly in our unconscious, the picture of our ideal mate or lover and what we would do with them. This conglomerate of traits may include many aspects of the personality, how a person behaves socially, certain critical values, race, religion and political persuasion; it often includes physical characteristics such as hair color, height, weight, body shape or a certain look.

But it is also involved with deeply unconscious assumptions and preferences.

For example, one aspect of my own lovemap (that I was unaware of for many years) is my preference for a man who can fix things around the house, the way my dad did. He built our family's home from the ground up, even installing his own water pipes and electric wiring. So I'm attracted to men who can "fix things," and I have little interest in a guy who has no ability as a handyman. (This is most likely because my own family experience led me to believe this is what a "real man" does.)

Another example from my personal lovemap is my attraction to extremely smart men who are on the quiet side. My dad was a solid, stable, introverted salt-of-the-earth man who focused on his family, doing the work and solving every problem. A "party boy," loudmouth—or even a man as extroverted as I am—would never be the kind of mate I would choose, because my lovemap requires someone more like my beloved dad in order for me to experience real chemistry.

I've heard many psychologists say that we really cannot explain what chemistry is or why it happens between two people. However, I think the closest we've been able to come is through recognizing that any potential mate we're attracted to (when we feel real chemistry) is someone who meets the important criteria of our lovemap. Some of these criteria—both functional and dysfunctional—are determined through our identification and bonding with the opposite-sex or same-sex parent; others are determined by the rejection of one or both parents. Still other criteria develop from cultural ideals, media images, popular personalities or subtle role models such as teachers, neighbors or historic figures.

If there's a deep compatibility of lovemaps between two psychologically healthy people, it can be a match made in heaven. In reality, acting on the surge of instant, powerful chemistry may lead us only to scratch the surface of our lovemap. We might see only about 5 percent of the important variables: perhaps going no deeper than physical appearance, hobbies, diet and career. This is a major problem for couples who get married quickly or start living together shortly after falling in love. As we get deeper into the layers of our unconscious traits, values and belief systems, the honeymoon is often over. We may abruptly fall "out of love" as we discover that our partner is not meeting some of the major criteria of our lovemap—the other 85 things we were looking for and just assumed would be there. Small wonder that the divorce rate in Southern California, where I live and work, is well over 50 percent.

One of the biggest problems is that many of the components of our lovemap are deeply buried in the unconscious and hidden from our awareness. Most of us couldn't fully describe our internal lovemap if our life depended on it. Typically, we become conscious of these specific traits and expectations only when we're shocked by our partner's behavior, when we feel betrayed or violated. It's likely that we didn't know something was part of our lovemap until we were confronted with a crisis that forced awareness into our conscious mind. Only at this point do we realize that certain things are of great importance—and perhaps not negotiable.

Does everyone have a lovemap? Yes, but some of us have lovemaps that are unclear, extremely distorted or "vandalized" by traumatic events such as rape or incest or humiliating early sexual experiences that engrave unhealthy ideas and feelings onto our unconscious template for a desirable mate. Not everyone has the wholesome benefit of identifying in a healthy way with one or both parents (especially the one of the opposite sex). Elements of the lovemap can become confusing, contradictory and bizarre under conditions that set up negativity, abuse, neglect or trauma in the person's unconscious beliefs and expectations for a mate and a love relationship.

For example, a person who believes he or she will be used, verbally abused and disrespected has a highly compatible lovemap with a partner who is hateful, abusive and disrespectful. Negative qualities in the lovemap work just as powerfully for establishing real chemistry as the positive ones. This helps explain why so many people continually attract the same kind of dysfunctional, abusive relationships.

Fortunately, there are many resources for changing and healing our lovemaps. For example, we can consciously choose to identify with different or more positive role models such as aunts, uncles, therapists, media idols, historic figures or literary heroes. Another example, in response to more complicated issues, is seeking depth therapy to raise our level of consciousness and psychological health in order to actually correct the self-sabotaging and dysfunctional aspects of our lovemap. There is also a plethora of books, seminars, trainings, video/DVD programs and small group experiences that can assist in this journey In any case, an in-depth understanding of one's lovemap and that of the partner can be a major asset and vehicle for self-awareness and growth within the relationship."
The Use of the Enneagram System in Relationships
 
"During the course of human history there have been many attempts to classify personality types. Aside from the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (a testing instrument that examines four continuums related to temperament), I've generally found typologies of little practical use in clinical work—especially in couples counseling. The major exception to this is the Enneagram, which I've found extremely useful not only in helping troubled couples and individuals but with all kinds of people. The Enneagram is an insightful, highly refined and respectful system that describes nine basic personality types, what drives them to perceive the world the way they do and how these contrasting worldviews produce nine distinctive constellations of behaviors. Several specific factors developed through the Enneagram are good predictors of long-term success in intimate relationships.



[T]he Enneagram is the most powerful tool I've ever had to explain who the person is and what motivates them. To me as a therapist, the Enneagram is what a hammer is to a carpenter. It's a basic tool that I use in all kinds of individual therapy, couples therapy and family counseling. It's especially useful for couples because it allows people to gain a profound understanding and appreciation of themselves as well as one another. Reading about the Enneagram makes their thinking about their own personal problems more objective. It depersonalizes some of the pain and conflict, as they begin to more clearly understand the personality structure of their partner, as well as their own.’

This is what it did for me in my own marriage—helped me to understand my husband and also to see my own patterns and blind spots in the relationship. For example, before discovering the Enneagram I was aware of my own personality and knew I was extremely extroverted. However, I never put together all the underlying motives that make up my own type. Of course I don't like pain (which is anathema to Sevens), but I didn't realize that avoiding pain had been a major theme in my life ever since I was a kid. People have asked me: "How could you possibly be a therapist if you're a Seven and you don't like pain?" Well, that's exactly why I am a therapist—because I'm so committed to getting people out of their pain. In individual therapy or marriage/family counseling I push to resolve the problems, doing everything I can so that people are no longer suffering."
Source: Coates, Mona; Searle, Judith. Sex, Love and Your Personality: The Nine Faces of Intimacy. Therapy Options Press. Kindle Edition.

Do you find this to be true in your relationships? Discuss! :happy:
 

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wow, this seems cool and like you've looked into it quite a bit. I've never really taken either of the personality theories as great ways to finding a partner, but I've always thought it could be possible. it may not really be. or not as much as that second spoiler stuff says. but it does make it seem like it's ot more reliable than I'd thought.
 

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MOTM Feb 2012
ISTJ 9w1
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Discussion Starter #3
wow, this seems cool and like you've looked into it quite a bit. I've never really taken either of the personality theories as great ways to finding a partner, but I've always thought it could be possible. it may not really be. or not as much as that second spoiler stuff says. but it does make it seem like it's ot more reliable than I'd thought.
Yeah, I think it's possible to have a decent relationship even if you only share the most important 2/5 factors (compatible lovemaps and high levels of psychological health.) So that does mean that any two enneagram types can have a decent relationship. However, if you try to get 2 other shared factors as well (such as matching personality subtypes and harmonic triad match or complimentary connection line,) it might be a more stable or even "better" relationship.

From my personal experience, shared subtype is the most important enneagram type compatibility predictor.
 

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This is actually the first I am hearing about the Harmonic Triads, and I chuckled a bit when I found out that the Harmonic Triad I am in is simply my tritype (7-9-2).

The author obviously places great emphasis on one's Lovemap being based on past experience, particularly with the opposite-sex parent. However, that is not even close to the only thing that shapes a Lovemap. For example, my mother is an ESFJ (albeit sometimes a very logical and witty one), but I have found Thinker girls extremely attractive recently. Maybe it's because I am looking for someone who can keep up with my humor, and shoot it right back at me, I don't know. But I do know I am about to chase an ISTJ, and I think she might be a 2w1, so the Harmonic Triad theory holds up nicely there. *goes to check myself in the mirror*
 

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MOTM Feb 2012
ISTJ 9w1
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Discussion Starter #6
The author obviously places great emphasis on one's Lovemap being based on past experience, particularly with the opposite-sex parent. However, that is not even close to the only thing that shapes a Lovemap.
True, but a lot of it is also subconscious. One could never fully describe their lovemap to someone else.

For example, my mother is an ESFJ (albeit sometimes a very logical and witty one), but I have found Thinker girls extremely attractive recently. Maybe it's because I am looking for someone who can keep up with my humor, and shoot it right back at me, I don't know. But I do know I am about to chase an ISTJ, and I think she might be a 2w1, so the Harmonic Triad theory holds up nicely there. *goes to check myself in the mirror*
I've been keeping a spreadsheet of ISTJ types, and it would be highly unlikely for an ISTJ to be a 2, but that's another story. :tongue:
 

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PerC's 6w6
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I've been keeping a spreadsheet of ISTJ types, and it would be highly unlikely for an ISTJ to be a 2, but that's another story. :tongue:
Why? And serious question - could the "lovemap" involve the other person having a position on cuddling, for example?

*insert shameless Type 9 plug here*

What does "reactive" in this sense mean?
 

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Thanks for sharing this!

I know what I really like in a man and some of them are so superficial like: being the youngest son (I'm eldest btw), thin (unconsciously I don't know why i like thin men), tall (at least a ruler long above me), extrovert and very sociable party-goer-like (I'm introvert), and yes a handyman who knows how to fix things (because I know, I really suck at fixing or creating tangible things). And there are some other factors I look for like college education, intelligence, competence, talent, dependability, and so on and so forth.

What I wasn't aware, was the fact that I was looking for something more, which only comes to mind when a real crisis situation hit.

And yeah, I guess I really love my integration line :Type 3. That is the kind of personality I am looking for in a partner. I'm just lucky I found one :D And I think if the time comes that my relationship with my husband didn't work, I think I'd still look for a partner who is similar to him in many if not all things.
 

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For example, one aspect of my own lovemap (that I was unaware of for many years) is my preference for a man who can fix things around the house, the way my dad did. He built our family's home from the ground up, even installing his own water pipes and electric wiring. So I'm attracted to men who can "fix things," and I have little interest in a guy who has no ability as a handyman. (This is most likely because my own family experience led me to believe this is what a "real man" does.)

Another example from my personal lovemap is my attraction to extremely smart men who are on the quiet side. My dad was a solid, stable, introverted salt-of-the-earth man who focused on his family, doing the work and solving every problem. A "party boy," loudmouth—or even a man as extroverted as I am—would never be the kind of mate I would choose, because my lovemap requires someone more like my beloved dad in order for me to experience real chemistry.
The word Freud, Freud, Freud, kept going through my head as I read this section.
 

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MOTM Feb 2012
ISTJ 9w1
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Discussion Starter #11
Type 2s tend toward Extraversion and Feeling in MBTI. Therefore, an ISTJ Type 2 would be very uncommon. It's not uncommon, however for ISTJs to have 2 fixes.

And serious question - could the "lovemap" involve the other person having a position on cuddling, for example?

*insert shameless Type 9 plug here*
A position while cuddling, maybe. :wink: Just kidding. Yeah, a part of your lovemap could definitely be "I want someone who enjoys cuddling and other forms of physical touch." You'll notice that it's part of your lovemap when you're with someone doesn't like cuddling and other forms of physical touch.

What does "reactive" in this sense mean?
The Emotional Realness (Intensity) Group
The Emotional Realness Group is composed of types Six, Four, and Eight. These types react emotionally to conflicts and problems and have difficulties knowing how much to trust other people. “I need you to know how I feel about this.” When problems arise, these types look for an emotional response from others that mirrors their concern. In conflicts, the Emotional Realness types want the other person to match their emotional state. “This is really bothering me! It should bother you, too!” The types in this group have strong likes and dislikes. If there is a problem, others are going to hear about it. In conflicts, they need to deal with their feelings first, and usually once they are able to do so, things can blow over fairly quickly and permanently. If they are not able to ventilate their feelings, however, these types can become increasingly resentful and vindictive.

The Emotional Realness Group types also have difficulty balancing their need for independence and self-determination with their need to be nurtured and supported by others. They simultaneously trust and distrust others: to accept the support and affection of others is a deep desire for these types, but to do so feels like losing control of themselves and of their circumstances. They fear being betrayed and need feedback from people in order to “know where others stand” toward them. They are either looking for advice and direction (“parenting”) or defying it. Subconsciously, Fours want to be parented, whereas Eights want to play the role of parent and provider, and Sixes want it both ways, sometimes being the parent, sometimes being parented by someone else.
Also known as the Emotional Realness (Intensity) Group by Riso & Hudson.
 

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MOTM Feb 2012
ISTJ 9w1
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Discussion Starter #13

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PerC's 6w6
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Type 2s tend toward Extraversion and Feeling in MBTI. Therefore, an ISTJ Type 2 would be very uncommon. It's not uncommon, however for ISTJs to have 2 fixes.

A position while cuddling, maybe. :wink: Just kidding. Yeah, a part of your lovemap could definitely be "I want someone who enjoys cuddling and other forms of physical touch." You'll notice that it's part of your lovemap when you're with someone doesn't like cuddling and other forms of physical touch.

Also known as the Emotional Realness (Intensity) Group by Riso & Hudson.
Are you using the Wagele-o-gram? Aww that's disappointing, as well. I'm curious, though - is that not conflation? Like, which form of Feeling does it tend to?

Ah, alright - thanks :happy:. I like this lovemap concept. It sounds interesting haha.

Hmmm. That quote is interesting... Thanks for linking it! :happy:. Which book is it from? (I assume it's not in the book you listed in the source)
 

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YES. I have been waiting for just such a book.


Matching Personality Subtypes : Refers to your dominant instinctual variant, either sexual (sx), social (so), or self-preservation (sp.)

- So it's considered most complimentary for instinctual stacks to be the SAME?

Harmonic Triad Match: Refers to your Harmonic Triad (how each type handles conflict, adversity, and situations in which our needs are not met.) Either Positive Outlook (Types 2, 7, 9), Reactive (Types 4, 6, 8), or Competency (Types 1, 3, 5.)

- Again, it is best for these to be the SAME? "Reactive" sounds so negative....I wonder if the others are given such a negative slant. I can't see how two reactives is really desirable....? I find this problematic with 6 family members, for instance. We "feed" each other.

Complimentary Connection Line: Refers to a connecting line in the enneagram diagram, i.e. a shared integration / disintegration line.

- As noted, you could not have this AND have your harmonic triad matching.... It's seems "sameness" is considered the best here, which does align with MBTI reports about compatibility which use statistics (the closer to your own type in terms of letters - not functions - then the higher the satisfaction ratings tend to be; but many theories focus on function preferences in pairing ideal matches, without any poll statistics to back it up).

Basically, this gives 4, 6, 8 or 1 & 2 as the 4's best enneagram type matches. I wonder why wings are not considered of any significance Or are they discussed in the book?
 

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MOTM Feb 2012
ISTJ 9w1
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Discussion Starter #17
Are you using the Wagele-o-gram?
No.... what is that? :tongue:

Aww that's disappointing, as well. I'm curious, though - is that not conflation? Like, which form of Feeling does it tend to?
The book specified per MBTI letter, not cognitive function.

Ah, alright - thanks :happy:. I like this lovemap concept. It sounds interesting haha.

Hmmm. That quote is interesting... Thanks for linking it! :happy:. Which book is it from? (I assume it's not in the book you listed in the source)
The Harmonic Groups

Hope that helps!
 

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PerC's 6w6
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No.... what is that? :tongue:



The book specified per MBTI letter, not cognitive function.



The Harmonic Groups

Hope that helps!
It's that spreadsheet inside one of the Wagele books (I'm pretty sure it's Wagele) that has a giant table and different shades of grey contrasting MBTI and Enneagram types. I'm sure if I could find it you'd know which I mean... Or was it you who made it? I know you have some epic spreadhseet somewhere - you've made mention of it several times...

Yay! It does! Thanks! :happy:.
 

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MOTM Feb 2012
ISTJ 9w1
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Discussion Starter #19
YES. I have been waiting for just such a book.


Matching Personality Subtypes : Refers to your dominant instinctual variant, either sexual (sx), social (so), or self-preservation (sp.)

- So it's considered most complimentary for instinctual stacks to be the SAME?
I would think that as an extrapolation, but the book only speaks of dominant instinct matching.

Harmonic Triad Match: Refers to your Harmonic Triad (how each type handles conflict, adversity, and situations in which our needs are not met.) Either Positive Outlook (Types 2, 7, 9), Reactive (Types 4, 6, 8), or Competency (Types 1, 3, 5.)

- Again, it is best for these to be the SAME? "Reactive" sounds so negative....I wonder if the others are given such a negative slant. I can't see how two reactives is really desirable....? I find this problematic with 6 family members, for instance. We "feed" each other.
Yeah, the idea is the same group brings compatibility. See post 11 for a different naming system (emotional-realness or intensity group.) It might be good because you would naturally match emotions under stress and not shy away like some (positive outlook triad) types tend to do.

Complimentary Connection Line: Refers to a connecting line in the enneagram diagram, i.e. a shared integration / disintegration line.

- As noted, you could not have this AND have your harmonic triad matching.... It's seems "sameness" is considered the best here, which does align with MBTI reports about compatibility which use statistics (the closer to your own type in terms of letters - not functions - then the higher the satisfaction ratings tend to be; but many theories focus on function preferences in pairing ideal matches, without any poll statistics to back it up).

Basically, this gives 4, 6, 8 or 1 & 2 as the 4's best enneagram type matches. I wonder why wings are not considered of any significance Or are they discussed in the book?
Yes, this is only "proven" through the author's clinical experience.

Wings were not mentioned in the book, nor tritype. However, I don't think that wings would matter as much.

Just bought and skimmed the book on Kindle. Highly recommended.
Agreed!
 

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MOTM Feb 2012
ISTJ 9w1
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Discussion Starter #20
It's that spreadsheet inside one of the Wagele books (I'm pretty sure it's Wagele) that has a giant table and different shades of grey contrasting MBTI and Enneagram types. I'm sure if I could find it you'd know which I mean... Or was it you who made it? I know you have some epic spreadhseet somewhere - you've made mention of it several times...

Yay! It does! Thanks! :happy:.
Yep, in two different Wagele books. :happy: I've found the table to be accurate from my research on ISTJ types on this site, too.
 
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