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For instance, I work as an analyst for an energy company.

I come up with ideas for improving their forecasting models, then have my colleagues test them/do the actual developing.

I do have to do some of the developing and forecasting myself, but I'm mostly in charge of improvements/fixing issues with the code and finding shortcuts for doing things more efficiently.
That sounds awesome. I'm still learning how to code so I can become a developer. I'll probably start looking into machine learning within the next 6 months. It's encouraging to hear that there are jobs like yours.
 

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That sounds awesome. I'm still learning how to code so I can become a developer. I'll probably start looking into machine learning within the next 6 months. It's encouraging to hear that there are jobs like yours.
As long as you're eager to learn and you show promise there's a lot of companies out there who're happy to train you on coding.

My company (energy sector) paid for my whole team (around 20 people) to be trained in SAS (business analytics) and there's a few free courses you can take on SQL, VBA etc.
 

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I'll most likely find some kind of coding job after I graduate. It sounds most up my street and I think I'll sometimes rather wish I'd done a full degree in it rather than my physics degree which just features using python for data processing.

That, or apparently a lot of physics grads go into banking and finance for the easy money. There's this weird idea that being good at maths means you'd be great at finance too. I don't really know how it works. Unless they mean more coding, where the aim is to optimise programs so they do the jobs as fast as possible?

Meh. Yeah, looks like coding is the way.
 

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I'll most likely find some kind of coding job after I graduate. It sounds most up my street and I think I'll sometimes rather wish I'd done a full degree in it rather than my physics degree which just features using python for data processing.

That, or apparently a lot of physics grads go into banking and finance for the easy money. There's this weird idea that being good at maths means you'd be great at finance too. I don't really know how it works. Unless they mean more coding, where the aim is to optimise programs so they do the jobs as fast as possible?

Meh. Yeah, looks like coding is the way.
I think that you're in good shape because machine learning is going to be the next best thing for the next 2 decades if not more. I plan on picking up machine learning in Python too and brush up on my math. There's this guy in Youtube called sentdex who has a whole series on ML in Python.
 

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I think that you're in good shape because machine learning is going to be the next best thing for the next 2 decades if not more. I plan on picking up machine learning in Python too and brush up on my math. There's this guy in Youtube called sentdex who has a whole series on ML in Python.
I've heard about machine learning but I haven't a clue what it is.

Presumably something to do with AI?

I'll cross that bridge when it comes. All I've done so far is write a program to interpret a shit-ton of data from muon detection experiments. Quite specific really. Definitely a good foundation for other stuff though. In the end programming is just programming really. Logic, optimisation and all that.
 

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There is no "fast money". Only selling all your waking hours so you can afford a place to sleep, so you can wake up and do it all over again.
 

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Learn coding, and then programming, you will find your new system to designs to be fascinating, mind occupying and satisfying once completed. You will have also all the food (I mean information) you want and you will be able to constantly improve things.

I'll give you a short story, I'm not a genius, but my personality allows me to intake lots of information and come up with solutions that many other people don't.

So im coding since 15 years (and programming since 10), one year later I left high school to travel as I was kind of bored and had a lot of money (from my websites) and freedom (because of personal/family situation). Then came back, finish it, but never went to study as I study better by myself. I never got burned out and can spend thousands of hours and they make me happy.


The diference between coding in programming is about making something work and look good, but having SOME code that does it, you program when you care about QUALITY of your code, remember that if not you then someone else WILL need to modify your code sooner or later, don't be the guy the next team/dev swears on for your code! Hence (as intp again) learn a tech (we will get to that later) and then paradigm (I highly recommend BDD/TDD and Object Oriented approach :))

I'm working as a lead developer (mostly from home) in a great company, they treat me like their baby because they know how I am :)

I've done as well years of free lance and own stuff so let me give you couple of tips or rather a guide.

1. Learning

A) Materials

- Safari online gives greatest amount of materials in form of NEWLY RELEASED BOOKS, video trainings, recordings from conferences etc. I've tried PacktPub (which is in safari anyway), Lynda (lol, please, it is THE WORST for me when it comes to programming/updates, as well no books)

- Watch out for tutorials, remember that Internet is full of ppl who are just making a quick buck without realizing that they're actually teaching you some outdated/harder way to do something. Accurate and actual info is top priority when learning for this and you dont want to base your knowledge on that.

- So first tutorial you do is the one from official docs of technology/languages you've chosen or from a book on it released within last half of year.

- Never just copy/paste code without at least understanding it (unless trying out), what I mean don't get into copy paste routine because it will bring you just suffering, try to understand what's going on and go back if you need as many times as possible.

B) Process

- knowledge crunching, do what you read in the books, watch programming conference the videos (youtube), check what's your learning style and use it

-play, do stupid shit, makes by yourself application (just for yourself) with mobile notes or reminders (super easy tech called ionic to try out at the end of post in resources)

- i love to read 2-3 books on same subject in a row, but I've found i will take/remember more information when I just do examples and play on the way so read above again.

- despite being intp and being able to learn shitloads of programming by yourself (if you can have the time and we both now you can so no more excuses!) you might want to go for a local coding dojo or meetup, I know we're socially selective, but you might find a mentor in there and he's experience will give you years of your own trial/error.

- do cheap websites for small business on the corner or charity, but do it after you've done something for yourself and you're sure you can do it, other way you will put yourself in trouble and a lot of stress (more about this in point 2).

C) Technologies - Linux, frameworks and developers

I'm passing on Linux jobs which is good idea to learn and make money as well, big shortage on linux ppl now in coming future as well : P In the end most of languages are very similar and have common concepts (like loops, variables etc.), anyone who knows couple of them would probably agree. What is below is just my personal suggestion, but before I need to explain frameworks.

You can think of frameworks as set of tools/components + wire frame that enables you to layout your application in a certain way (usually keeping best practices in mind and helping you to keep them as well). A lot of time these will have components (ready code) to deal with things like routing (url to page), writing files to disk (file system component), users management, connecting to database, helpers to create forms etc.

Why I'm speaking about frameworks? Because frameworks gets you the job and gets the job done faster, and you will get paid more.

You really don't want to write all the code yourself, remember we live in open source world and a lot of stuff has been written. When you make a small sites for many small customers, and every time you start new one it takes you just one minute to bring in users and blog component its amazing, no need to write it again! The same with gallery and sms components.

So before you start playing with them (frameworks) you need to have a good base in chosen language so learn basics first and then jump to framework, not vice versa (so even if the thing does a lot of stuff for you, you know what's it's doing under the hood). Unless you want to experiment then go and break it ;D and it might be just your way, but if wont know how to echo screen to text then it might not be that fruitful.

So as for 3 jobs title and languages/frameworks:


- front-end developer:
> HTML, CSS3 & Bootstrap for responsive/mobile design and JavaScript
> frameworks (after you have pure JavaScript):
- Angular2 / ReactJS (i'd go with Angular really)

- backend developer:
> PHP (say whatever you want but it still powers 80% of websites on the planet), MYSQL, will be easy as well.
> frameworks (after you feel comfortable with writing pure php):
- Laravel (you can take it on beginning as it's easy and there will be a lot of junior jobs where this will benefit you), if you want a challenge and have lots of time to learn then you can start off with Symfony which is engine that powers Laravel (you see, a framework can power another framework, so cool! :)) I'd suggest symfony, but it's up to you and it might be hard for beginning.

- full stack developer, both above + admin + everything, it will take you time, but it will come if you have interest in field will be probably most satisfying thanks to diversity of technologies/tasks.


- mobile developer, you want the front-end developer part and tools that will convert your JavaScript native looking app into real app on both android and iphone etc.. at least unless you want to learn java to program for android and objective c to do apple separate.

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done! that's it? I believe that was quite enough... so how fast? depends how fast you learn and how much time you have for it, If you think it might be your passion then you can always go to parents house (if you have one) or learn in your free time (if you're not working as a dev and probably you're not if looking for a ways to make quick money)...

So now that you know how to program in one language, got bits of a framework (which will supercharge your cv and chances for work that you wont hate because of other's ppl code) you can start thinking about job.

2. Job/Work
A) You and yourself (free lance/own company)
- need money to start especially if we're inexperienced
- you will need to be as well sales person, negotiator (when changes starts and some1 will need to price them) and accountant
- unless of course you have so much money that you can risk hiring people who will do above and you will be able to code
- can be good to get couple of first projects on your portfolio
- you wont be able to do big projects because these are not sent to solo guys, unless you have team, this takes time

B) You and yourself (you and yourself)
- you could be making money on creating simple applications and having ads in them, this wont be fast and easy unless you will have brilliant idea that other people will actually understand and thing go viral, if no you can make tons of them and you know: penny to penny
- this can be good learning/portfolio experience,
- especially if you have other job and just want to check if you lie idea.
- wont be able to work on big/complex projects

C) You and lovely company
First prepare good number of samples (even if they're just your play and not serious projects for someone).
These can be websites (frontend) or code (backend), use github for storing your portfolio code so interviewers can review it.
Once you're ready go on internet and start searching, register your cvs on big sites etc.

rules about you:
- look for junior/webmaster/web developer (unless you got good with framework and language, then you can hit straight away for mid-weight)
- if you used tech one time dont put it there, you can do that for tools though :) no bullshit on cv
- prepare for the role, review questions on the internet, i.e. php intervew questions if there are


rules about company:
- if you're intp you want company that will be relaxed and most preferably let you work alone/at home/at weird times
- this is ideal so might not happen in your first job
- make sure that they have training budget and growth plan/options for you!
- DONT BOTHER WITH COMPANIES THAT REQUIRE FROM YOU KNOWLEDGE OF ALGORITHMS because you dont want to work there anyway. Unless you do love algorithms of course.
- I think you will feel better in small companies rather than big media agencies or corpo world, but it may be just me.

Why (as intp) working for good IT company as a programmer can be cool:
- you can go to Majorca and work from there if you want (remember? we have now fast internet!)
- they will pay you nicely and will be happy from your work
- they might treat you like their child after they get to know you better lol
- they will buy you books, send you to conferences and get your newest linux mag subscription ;)
- you wont need to stress about dealing with customers, just you and your code and your happy manager (because you're intp and there's no freaking way you will give him clumsy/shitty code, you might think it's shit but most probably it will be just great)
- they will send you home after breakup with your gf :D

some donts:
1. Don't learn WordPress, don't learn Zend, don't start with learning C please unless it really intrigues you.
2. Don't be idiot and too opinionated on techs, remember this changes all the time, but there are stable blocks/parts.
3. Don't stop to learn (unless you started learning WordPress)
4. Don't put more than 400-500 lines of code in one file if possible, you will thank me for that.

some do's:
1. Learn all the time and ask questions.
2. Look for better solutions (that's how you advance) for yourself and other people.
3. Work on various projects or have side project, dont keep it just your job, that's for your health and interests.
4. Go and meet people in coding clubs etc. I'm telling you, you will like it in the end. Lots of intps there.
5. Do spend some time to learn linux, it will help you in any it job.

Ok, I've left structured form, might update this post or move it somewhere in future, but the rest is less (even?) structured.

Interviews & trial day:
1. prepare as i said, you don't need to remember every function but know the basics or at least general way on how to do something.
2. a lot of time questions can be more about your ability of abstract thinking (as intp its quite easy for us)
3. improve your interviewing skills
4. ask questions about position, ask questions company, ask some more questions, show your interest, if you dont know something or not sure how to solve task... ask questions.
5. never ever say something it's ok, if you don't have clue, don't try to guess it if you dont know, just say I dont know.
- I've personally seen people loosing interviews on this one, they were not bad material, but couldn't admit to lack of knowledge (even the one that they shouldn't really have so it wouldn't be a problem) or didn't ask for explanations/help when struggling.


Resources (I'd post links but not sure if I can and im too lazy to check it, just search keywords in google)...
sites:
- php net for php, w3schools, sitepoint,
- have a look at safari books online
- have a look at something called freecodecamp
- have a look at linux foundation (lfcs) certificates, you can do them at home and will be boost to your cv
- meetup
- knpuniversity has some good exclusive tutorials for symfony

frameworks:
- symfony (php), angular2 (js), bootstrap (responsive design), ionic framework (cross platform app creation) just search google

some books:
- Clean Code by uncle bob (robert cecil martin)
- The Pragmatic Programmer
- Growing Object oriented software (this when you have basics and get to object oriented programming, for example when using frameworks)
- much more, they're not about specific language, but rather about programming as craftsmanship


How much money you can make? A lot... how quickly? as I said depends, but I bet an average intp with a bit of time can be quite good with Laravel and Php within half of a year (considering that they have full time job).

From php side, Laravel jobs are paid quite well, but Symfony jobs are paid insanely (if youre fine with 400-500 pounds per day). In the end all the developer/admin jobs are paid quite good. In UK as a junior you can count for even 25-30k a year and that's what you should get as a junior with basic framework skills. There's a lot of positions paying over 80 and even above 100k so yeah, money's good in here.

Now please take everything I wrote and think, with a bit of reserve, does it suits you? I think I couldn't find more interesting work to do (than programmer), with better money and more autonomy. On top of that intp's have natural predisposition to be great devs (developers :)) so yeah.

If you have any questions or need help I'll be more than happy to answer :) So happy to be in nt's forum where I don't need to worry about length of the post lol, just wanted to give you overview on a good way for intps to make money and fulfil their need for complexity and GREAT systems :) and if creativity is more for you than complex system then you're more than welcome to become web designer instead of developer.

All mistakes and unfinished sentences due to chronic lack of sleep, will be reread and corrected... probably :)

p.s. python's great language as well and you will find lots of work :)
 

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Stand-up comedy.

It doesn't require any degree or capital.

*They are sympathetic and quirky.
*They ask the most ridiculous/random questions and also try to answer honestly.
*They are never boring because they get bored easily.
 

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That sounds awesome. I'm still learning how to code so I can become a developer. I'll probably start looking into machine learning within the next 6 months. It's encouraging to hear that there are jobs like yours.
Ah, okay. You're starting from scratch so, there are only a few jobs availlable for beginner that pay well.
- Robery
- Narcotics
- Prostitution
- Sell an organ
 

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Ah, okay. You're starting from scratch so, there are only a few jobs availlable for beginner that pay well.
- Robery
- Narcotics
- Prostitution
- Sell an organ
It would certainly pay better than for those who can't spell or use Google translate properly. ;)
 

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It would certainly pay better than for those who can't spell or use Google translate properly. ;)
There is no monney or sex to earn here on this forum..
Therefore, why should I spend more time whereas nothing will be improved by this extra time spent on spelling?
 

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thinker for hire...like a maid you will go through your clients' cluttered minds and clean up the mess that litters their thoughts, leaving tidy and well organized places where they can think clearly again
 

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The faster the more risk you must accept.

Yes...
Well, this guy had much Se in his back pocket to give when he was on the edge. I think ISTJ. There is no way he was an INTP. His partner Jesse (ENTP) showed a little bit of Se at force which was way weaker than his and for INTP would be even weaker.
 

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I actually got an old paycheck I never picked up through this
https://www.unclaimed.org
Of course I blew it all on random crap immediately after like a fool -_- money management skills why
My boss did too. I think my uncle might've also, I never followed up on how that ended. Some old insurance thing.

Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk
 

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Nice! My manager never appreciates me for my ideas, but manages to get a bonus for them. I think I need to look for another job.
 

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You definitely need to find another job, where at least you will be appreciated. I think a lot of people went through something similar on their careers path. I faced it personally. I used to work at one company, where all my ideas were taken for granted. Besides, after my manager tried to insult me a few times, I decided to quit. Shortly after, I started to work for another company. I really like it there, but sometimes I have to stay late. To distract me from work, and I found one platform where I can get paid to play games. Well it didn’t replace my current job, still, it is nice to get some extra cash for your free time.
 
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