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If...

Fe is a function that is concerned with how others feel (or the feels external of the individual)

and

Fi is a function that is concerned with inner morals and beliefs (or the internal feels of an individual)

Is it possible that someone could develop Fe as a result of Fi (E.g. Fi user decides it is morally good to value others over themselves)? If so, how would you tell them apart from an Fi dom?

Also, can an Fe user start to develop Fi if Fe isn't reciprocated? And of course, if so how would you tell them apart from an Fi dom?
 

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Be careful not to confuse brain functions and behaviour. It might be impossible to tell two different types apart by behaviour alone. I mean: an Fe-dominant could start to get a grip on their personal values through interacting with other people, but that doesn't mean they're using Fi. They're still using Fe, just as a tool for doing something that Fi is used for in others. I mean, I could use a screwdriver to hammer a nail into the wall, but that doesn't mean I just used a hammer right?

Honestly: I'm not sure it's possible to use functions that aren't in your function stack. It's very hard to research since most studies into cognitive functions lean heavily on self-report and interpretation. I'm open to the idea, but I think your interpretation is a bit too simplistic for that. Our brains just aren't that simple.
 

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If...

Fe is a function that is concerned with how others feel (or the feels external of the individual)

and

Fi is a function that is concerned with inner morals and beliefs (or the internal feels of an individual)

Is it possible that someone could develop Fe as a result of Fi (E.g. Fi user decides it is morally good to value others over themselves)? If so, how would you tell them apart from an Fi dom?
Many Fi users have that type of sentiment (at least in relation to certain people, it is a differentiating function after all) & also, rare Fe users value others over themselves in that altruistic sense anyways. The difference seems to be in Fi attributing value subjectively in that it both determines value in a way that is instinctive to the individual and leaves others to do so too. Whereas Fe attitude is approaching others in that it would be more about imposing values or expecting others to respond, in other words, it creates and discovers values in interaction with the world, rather than values emerging from within the subject (what is often seen as the depth of Fi -- although I think the word is a bad one since the implication is that Fe in turn is shallow lol).

Also, can an Fe user start to develop Fi if Fe isn't reciprocated? And of course, if so how would you tell them apart from an Fi dom?
a Fe user can certainly be more introverted if not reciprocated, but in most such cases I think in most of these situations there would be no incentive to develop feeling function at all.
 

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If...

Fe is a function that is concerned with how others feel (or the feels external of the individual)

and

Fi is a function that is concerned with inner morals and beliefs (or the internal feels of an individual)
I disagree; both (Fe + Fi) are concerned with 'how specimens' feel outside of themselves, thus the "same things" - by default not by preference, and it is this subject-fixation that is ultimately 'concerned' with heath overall - that is, (anatomical stucture (organs) - pysiological levels (brain / chemical-make up) - (&) (psychological health); however, not a main-fixation, in the same way the the primarly 'fixation' of thinkers is not 'doorknobs'.

___________


(Fe) - specimen(s) are concerned with the health of other specimen(s); to keep another healthy (maintains healthy levels + balance + anatomic well-being) within themselves.

Ex; (1)

"What happens," if the chain connecting subjects together [including to that of myself], is 'broken', frustrated, or disturbed? Where can I attribute and thus, thrive my valued-agency by example, if no other 'agencies' are there for modeling / nourishment?


This does not imply (Fe)-specimens wil be personally concerned with other personas - this implies subject-fixation (on agents) in general, consider "feelers" are more prone to be reflexively (caring) of animals and/or things that have a sentimentally misattributed 'agencies' or hyper-awareness of agencies outside of ones self-agency.




______________

(Fi) - specimen(s) are concerned with the health of themselves; - to keep 'themselves' (maintain anatomic well-being within themselves), keeps others happy - in so far, as they are 'optimizingly functional' (to agents around them). Consider the 'stubbornness' of (Fi) to maintain such minimal states - because without this sanity, a (Fi)-humanoid becomes unstable to those around and/or highly anextic-ridden. Consider hyper-awareness of self-agency at the expense of other agencies.

Ex; (2)

"What happens," if the connectivity between myself and my self-agency is 'broken', frustrated or disturbed due to (external) interference? What happens if I "lose" myself in other subjects, thus, can no longer maintain myself?








Is it possible that someone could develop Fe as a result of Fi (E.g. Fi user decides it is morally good to value others over themselves)?
Both (Fe/Fi) specimens will be making logical & 'value-judgments' and favoring such, however, such judgments will be critiqued to the distinct forms of "subject-fixation" among (Fe/Fi) fixation.

Consider ::

You do no need a 'develope' (X)-function (Fe) - to utilize (Fe) well, or even at all, as a (Fi) user. Rather it is (sub-personally)
reflexively situational.


If so, how would you tell them apart from an Fi dom?
A "dom / aux," et al - [normally (Fe)] user will be distinguishable from the (Fi)-dom in a sense they will not be "looping". (Fe) specimens will be demonstration predispostional (Fe)-characteristics with occasional (Fi) lapses, I am willing to explain 'common predispositioned' behaviors if necessary.
 

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Be careful not to confuse brain functions and behaviour. It might be impossible to tell two different types apart by behaviour alone. I mean: an Fe-dominant could start to get a grip on their personal values through interacting with other people, but that doesn't mean they're using Fi.
Why? Everybody has all the eight functions and can tap into them occasionally.
Being Fe only means that you prefer Fe instead of Fi. But it's not like you can't use it. It is simply your ego aligns with the former and tends to neglect the other.
 
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Here is how I see it. The outcome of decision can be the same, but where the motivation is coming from is different (see below):

Fe: I don't know how I feel about this situation. I will communicate with others to analyze what I should do, and make my decision based on what they think is right.

Fi: How I feel is important, and I think it is right, but what is most important to me is other people's happiness. Their happiness is my happiness. Therefore, I will do what they think is right.

So in the end, the decision looks to seem "Fe" because in both user's heads, they've decided the majority's needs are greater than personal needs. However, the motivation of each user was different. Fi's motivation was to fulfill their happiness by making others happy. Fe's motivation was to do what is considered universally right, they did not trust their own feeling (if they even came up with any) to be right.
 

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Why? Everybody has all the eight functions and can tap into them occasionally.
Being Fe only means that you prefer Fe instead of Fi. But it's not like you can't use it. It is simply your ego aligns with the former and tends to neglect the other.
They're means of judging. Fi can lead one to judge that it is important to value others without having Fe play any role in this decision, which is the salient point here. You could use Fe elsewhere and not be using it here.
 

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They're means of judging. Fi can lead one to judge that it is important to value others without having Fe play any role in this decision, which is the salient point here. You could use Fe elsewhere and not be using it here.
How are you using Fe for judging internal values?
How are you even feeling them?
You either feel the atmosphere of an outer environment (Fe) or you feel the feelings of individuals (Fi).

The example with the hammer isn't good because a hammer and a screw driver are both objects with length, width, weight. So they can be used for essentially the same thing.
But Fi and Fe aren't like that. They are two different functions with different targets and different orientation. You can't use Fe for judging someone's values. It doesn't go into other individual. If you want to do that, you must use Fi.
There's a reason why people tend to neglect certain functions: because it drains them. If someone used the same functions for all things encountered in her/his life, (s)he would get bad results all the time.
And there's a reason why socionics labels functions as "demonstrative" and other things. You use them all the time just for different things. You can't use Fi for Fe purposes and vice versa. It's math, not magic.
 

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How are you using Fe for judging internal values?
How are you even feeling them?
You either feel the atmosphere of an outer environment (Fe) or you feel the feelings of individuals (Fi).

The example with the hammer isn't good because a hammer and a screw driver are both objects with length, width, weight. So they can be used for essentially the same thing.
But Fi and Fe aren't like that. They are two different functions with different targets and different orientation. You can't use Fe for judging someone's values. It doesn't go into other individual. If you want to do that, you must use Fi.
There's a reason why people tend to neglect certain functions: because it drains them. If someone used the same functions for all things encountered in her/his life, (s)he would get bad results all the time.
And there's a reason why socionics labels functions as "demonstrative" and other things. You use them all the time just for different things. You can't use Fi for Fe purposes and vice versa. It's math, not magic.
What I am talking about involves judging a proposition. When one is given the proposition that "it is good to help other people", you can judge it based on subjective internal criteria (i.e. "I feel like I should help them") or objective external criteria (i.e. "it will make people happy if I help them"). Another person's emotions are exterior to yourself, and barring a strong empathetic response you wouldn't naturally judge them as if they were internal to you. Instead, they would necessarily form part of your "outer environment".
 

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Remember, we use all eight functions. Sometimes certain individuals are more developed in their shadow functions than others, as a result of using their top four. I've always been extremely aware of how other people feel, that is Fe after all, but I cannot act upon it like someone who has it in their function stack would. I think because my Fi values everything and everyone, being that I'm sensitive and empathetic, it has led to Fe, but my ability to use it and understand it is weak. This is why I struggle in social situations, not that Fe users can't either, but it's going to be for a different reason. We use all of the functions, Fe by definition is what you described, so yes that is Fe, but it isn't a preferred function and will never be.
 
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You clearly misunderstand Fi. It doesn't neglect the needs of others by default, in fact, it usually values them a great deal.
you clearly misunderstood meaning of message. nowhere did i say it neglects the needs of others. in fact, your defensiveness tells me all i need to know :)
 

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I have generally always felt that caring about others beyond yourself is beyond MBTI, but okay.


I think the crux of Fi generally is the morals and beliefs thing amd then how they react to others is in regsrd to that, but generally they almost always tend to be at least a little idealistic, in place of someone who is purely a realist or materialist amd generally takes thongs as they are.

Fe seems to to be the opposite almost times, they outwardly define moral views and beliefs in regards to what they feel from those around them and likewise,experience and thus depend or come to conclusions in this manner as well, then shift it through their Ni, which is very introverted, and more precise and definfitive due to its judging function.

Since I am a genius these simply dichotomies do not apply to me. I am a free maven.
 

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Since I've started playing with this mind mapping software.
This is sort of how I see the difference.

Fe_Fi_Answer.jpg
 

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What I am talking about involves judging a proposition. When one is given the proposition that "it is good to help other people", you can judge it based on subjective internal criteria (i.e. "I feel like I should help them") or objective external criteria (i.e. "it will make people happy if I help them"). Another person's emotions are exterior to yourself, and barring a strong empathetic response you wouldn't naturally judge them as if they were internal to you. Instead, they would necessarily form part of your "outer environment".
I only responded to this: "..an Fe-dominant could start to get a grip on their personal values through interacting with other people, but that doesn't mean they're using Fi. They're still using Fe, just as a tool for.."
I'm aware that certain behaviours (such as helping people) can be a result of different functions. You can help people if you feel for them (Fe), you can help people for benefits (Te), you can help them if you think it would make the world a better place (Ti).
But if you genuinely get a grip on personal values (and not just pretending you do) you're using Fi no doubt. You may not use it all the time, you may use it sparingly, you can still be an Fe-dom, but you use Fi in that moment.
 
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