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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why can't I settle on one type? My goodness, at least I know I'm an ExFJ!

Ni:
Let me tell you something: I went on a trip where we were meant to talk a lot about subject such as religion, society, the future, ourselves and such, and in the end of the trip many kids from my group came over to me and said I have very unique opinions that they had never heard before, that I sometimes said something that stuck with them and they had to thought it over. My grandmother (I think she's an INTx) did a course about Metaphysics (that's her job, haha) and I asked to join in even though I was 14 at the time (it was for 18+ because it was a lot of knowledge to handle), and she agreed because she knows I'm mature. I went with my ESFJ mother and I was a lot more interested in the things than she was. I was also asking questions sometimes and my mother was surprised at my so called wisdom. I enjoy plotting and I make schemes that end up a reality. I enjoy talking about the future greatly. I like talking about ideas, but not always in a Ne kind of way- like, I was talking with my friends about potential TV series seasons and movies, and we started planning everything that'll happen in detail. I fit the Ni "coldness", lets put it that way, haha. When I'm stressed out I tend to over-eat and exercise, which is Se? Don't know. I know ESFJs can do all of that but it's really far off the archetype.

Si:
I'm not sure if I'm abstract enough to be an ENFJ. I don't usually notice the details in front of me but I can be a perfectionist about the details in my drawing, for example. I go by social graces (which can also be a Fe thing, right?). I'm not impulsive at all and quite careful and cautious. I do have my "crazy ideas" mood which can seem Ne, probably. I can be scared of things that aren't familiar to me. Nothing comes up, maybe I'll think of things later.

Can my Si traits just be Enneagram 6 traits?
 

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@Gray Romantic

I've thought a lot about your issue and I've bounced back and forth between Si/Ne and Ni/Se. The reason you may not feel "abstract" enough for an ENFJ is that Ni is a very internal and much more focused sort of intuition. Ne is a shotgun blast of all sorts of possibilities, patterns, connections etc... but Ni is much more singular and as a primary Ni user I can say it often feels like a particular connection to something abstract just drops from my subconscious into my conscious thought... almost as if all of that extroverted idea generating and connecting the dots is being done subconsciously below my conscious awareness.

In addition what I sensed in your response to the N vs S image could very much be driven by the connection between primary Fe and tertiary Se. Your extroverted nature and the strength of Fe could drive Se a lot more and make you seem and feel slightly more S like. I ran into this very same problem for years with my Ni / Ti connection. I undervauled my auxiliary Fe because my strong Ni / Ti connection pushed the tests away from the J axis and more towards P... so I came out INTP.

Now that I really think about all this... for you I strongly suspect that a strong Fe/Se connection is masking auxiliary Ni.

Plus you wrote a lot more and were a lot clearer it seemed on Ni vs Si.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
@Gray Romantic

I've thought a lot about your issue and I've bounced back and forth between Si/Ne and Ni/Se. The reason you may not feel "abstract" enough for an ENFJ is that Ni is a very internal and much more focused sort of intuition. Ne is a shotgun blast of all sorts of possibilities, patterns, connections etc... but Ni is much more singular and as a primary Ni user I can say it often feels like a particular connection to something abstract just drops from my subconscious into my conscious thought... almost as if all of that extroverted idea generating and connecting the dots is being done subconsciously below my conscious awareness.

In addition what I sensed in your response to the N vs S image could very much be driven by the connection between primary Fe and tertiary Se. Your extroverted nature and the strength of Fe could drive Se a lot more and make you seem and feel slightly more S like. I ran into this very same problem for years with my Ni / Ti connection. I undervauled my auxiliary Fe because my strong Ni / Ti connection pushed the tests away from the J axis and more towards P... so I came out INTP.

Now that I really think about all this... for you I strongly suspect that a strong Fe/Se connection is masking auxiliary Ni.

Plus you wrote a lot more and were a lot clearer it seemed on Ni vs Si.
Actually, that makes a lot of sense, also considering that I'm 16 and my Se probably just kicks in now- probably at the expense of my Ni. Thank you so much for all the thought you've put into this!
 

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Why can't I settle on one type? My goodness, at least I know I'm an ExFJ!

Ni:
Let me tell you something: I went on a trip where we were meant to talk a lot about subject such as religion, society, the future, ourselves and such, and in the end of the trip many kids from my group came over to me and said I have very unique opinions that they had never heard before, that I sometimes said something that stuck with them and they had to thought it over. My grandmother (I think she's an INTx) did a course about Metaphysics (that's her job, haha) and I asked to join in even though I was 14 at the time (it was for 18+ because it was a lot of knowledge to handle), and she agreed because she knows I'm mature. I went with my ESFJ mother and I was a lot more interested in the things than she was. I was also asking questions sometimes and my mother was surprised at my so called wisdom. I enjoy plotting and I make schemes that end up a reality. I enjoy talking about the future greatly. I like talking about ideas, but not always in a Ne kind of way- like, I was talking with my friends about potential TV series seasons and movies, and we started planning everything that'll happen in detail. I fit the Ni "coldness", lets put it that way, haha. When I'm stressed out I tend to over-eat and exercise, which is Se? Don't know. I know ESFJs can do all of that but it's really far off the archetype.

Si:
I'm not sure if I'm abstract enough to be an ENFJ. I don't usually notice the details in front of me but I can be a perfectionist about the details in my drawing, for example. I go by social graces (which can also be a Fe thing, right?). I'm not impulsive at all and quite careful and cautious. I do have my "crazy ideas" mood which can seem Ne, probably. I can be scared of things that aren't familiar to me. Nothing comes up, maybe I'll think of things later.

Can my Si traits just be Enneagram 6 traits?
I don't think you should doubt your Ni use.I think what you described under Si are enneagram 6 traits.I can be a perfectionist about details to when I'm afraid that what I'm doing isn't going to be satisfactory to my own standards or those of others when they see it.You being a perfectionist about your drawing is probably just type 6 doubt in your own ability.I am also very careful and cautious.It's why I doubted that I was an INFP.I can seem very SJ like in some ways and I think it's because of the type 6 traits.At the same time I have always been more abstract than most people.I can come up with ideas that are removed from concrete reality.
 

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I agree with the other posters. Nothing you said here really would be out of line with Ni use and I haven't seen much of an argument for Si over Ni. Perhaps the use just feels more hazy to you since it's your auxiliary rather than your dominant function and it mixes in with the Se quite a bit more.
 

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Explain your crazy idea mode that strikes you as Ne. I'd love to hear it.

Explain your caution more.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Explain your crazy idea mode that strikes you as Ne. I'd love to hear it.

Explain your caution more.
Finally got around to answer this, haha. Thank you!

Crazy ideas mood- well, I sit with my friends and then someone says something really weird. Like, my friend was gonna write The Nightmare Before Christmas but it looked like The Nightmare Before Mole Day (it makes more sense in Hebrew haha), so I laughed really hard and I was like, "this could be a movie! A horror movie!" So my friend laughed, and I sat down and written all the actors I want them to be in the movie, what role they'll play and when they'll die. I made up the plot and when I told this to my friend she continued laughing and she added something very nice, so I put that in and continued to develop the idea.

I tend to make up movies, like once I made up Santa Claus: Untold because me and my friends had a joke that someone from the Jewish religion is really like Santa Claus but he doesn't give out gifts he just drinks wine so he must be Santa's alcoholic father, and so I made up a story on how Santa grew up and no one liked him because he was really fat and hairy and then this girl gave him cookies so he got addicted and died and became a legend. I even casted people in my head and wrote an actual scene haha. The thing is I like sharing those ideas with my friends :D

Okay, about my cautiousness, let me give you an example: a while ago, I didn't took the train so much. When my friends took me I was paranoid: "What if we get to the wrong station? What if we'll die? What if bla bla bla" I didn't know what to do hahaha. But after I got to know it, it wasn't so scary. I don't like breaking the rules, I'm never reckless or anything- I'm a very goody-two-shoes. I don't know if that's Fe, Si or both xD
 

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Finally got around to answer this, haha. Thank you!

Crazy ideas mood- well, I sit with my friends and then someone says something really weird. Like, my friend was gonna write The Nightmare Before Christmas but it looked like The Nightmare Before Mole Day (it makes more sense in Hebrew haha), so I laughed really hard and I was like, "this could be a movie! A horror movie!" So my friend laughed, and I sat down and written all the actors I want them to be in the movie, what role they'll play and when they'll die. I made up the plot and when I told this to my friend she continued laughing and she added something very nice, so I put that in and continued to develop the idea.

I tend to make up movies, like once I made up Santa Claus: Untold because me and my friends had a joke that someone from the Jewish religion is really like Santa Claus but he doesn't give out gifts he just drinks wine so he must be Santa's alcoholic father, and so I made up a story on how Santa grew up and no one liked him because he was really fat and hairy and then this girl gave him cookies so he got addicted and died and became a legend. I even casted people in my head and wrote an actual scene haha. The thing is I like sharing those ideas with my friends :D

Okay, about my cautiousness, let me give you an example: a while ago, I didn't took the train so much. When my friends took me I was paranoid: "What if we get to the wrong station? What if we'll die? What if bla bla bla" I didn't know what to do hahaha. But after I got to know it, it wasn't so scary. I don't like breaking the rules, I'm never reckless or anything- I'm a very goody-two-shoes. I don't know if that's Fe, Si or both xD
Took me a long time to reply to you, so dw, but from this, ESFJ, though you've already settled.

Really, I should of called ESFJ from your original post. Everything about the metaphysics class and asking questions just strikes me as high intelligence, nothing else. Planning potential future movie/tv shows with intricate detail? Si-Ne. Overeating under stress, actually could be Si, depending how you feel about it (I'll assume morbidity and/or guilt, and a sense of inferiority for not "controlling" yourself).

Last two paragraphs were Fe-Si-Ne personified. Don't know why I had to ask, but it did confirm initial suspicions.
 
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Hey there,


Your last post stroke me so much as Si-Ne it almost blew my head off, you know, a reclusive bullet. Anyway, Si as every introverted function adores every pinch of extroversion it can achieve, therefore Si users are often dealing with a multitude of ideas (Ne) which later on they do feel like bringing in the outside following purposes. Therefore during your lifetime you exercise what are the weakest links in your perception, you will exercise your Ne unconsciously and your Ti, that your analysis become sharper, "truer" and your connection rendering will transform itself easier. The way I see Si is that it tries to normalize everything so that the subject recognizes the world around, not always through senses but through thoughts as well, it has a matrix that keeps the person aloof on it so that the person does not completely fall underneath the scoop of the unknown.

General need for abstraction and curiosity towards metaphysics are N traits which you are trying to bring up in need for discovery of space, time, world and metaphysics also seem to attract Ti users as well, so the playful INTP in you is running around in ecstasy trying to find knowledge. So I would not discard ESFJ on the premises of abstraction and needing to find meaning, I often get the idea that it is a huge generality, that all the beating hearts on this world are falling under the premises of meaning, consciously or unconsciously.

Also, the train situation is quite the Si/Ne as Si is always tempted to withdraw under the Imperium of thoughts and second-guessing, it craves structure so that it does not lose itself completely, it lacks the spatial means of Se and therefore new places and the possibility of losing oneself is the best way of tracking a "bad" Ne situation. I recommend Martin Heidegger, he was a Si user who wrote philosophy based on his experience of the "second ego" who tends to analyse itself and centralize his meaning upon life.
 

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Why can't I settle on one type? My goodness, at least I know I'm an ExFJ!

Ni:
Let me tell you something: I went on a trip where we were meant to talk a lot about subject such as religion, society, the future, ourselves and such, and in the end of the trip many kids from my group came over to me and said I have very unique opinions that they had never heard before, that I sometimes said something that stuck with them and they had to thought it over. My grandmother (I think she's an INTx) did a course about Metaphysics (that's her job, haha) and I asked to join in even though I was 14 at the time (it was for 18+ because it was a lot of knowledge to handle), and she agreed because she knows I'm mature. I went with my ESFJ mother and I was a lot more interested in the things than she was. I was also asking questions sometimes and my mother was surprised at my so called wisdom. I enjoy plotting and I make schemes that end up a reality. I enjoy talking about the future greatly. I like talking about ideas, but not always in a Ne kind of way- like, I was talking with my friends about potential TV series seasons and movies, and we started planning everything that'll happen in detail. I fit the Ni "coldness", lets put it that way, haha. When I'm stressed out I tend to over-eat and exercise, which is Se? Don't know. I know ESFJs can do all of that but it's really far off the archetype.
ESFJ's are more in the here and now (present moment) embracing it with their 5 senses. Their aux Si makes them bring up and tell stories of past life events alot, (in clear detail) but in a more fun way than negative. They love to socialize, laugh and make people laugh and have a good time, so they tell of past stories that they can tell comically for others to laugh about and have fun. (Unless they are an ESFJ in the grip/loop, that can be negative as with anyone in the grip/loop in any type will be more prone to be negative.) Being able to sit there with friends concopting a "movie with it's scripts and actors" would be abstract more so Ni than Ne. ESFJ's are not going to sit around dreaming up ideas of a horror movie, that's definitely abstract/intuitive in dom or aux that would do that, rather than the 5 senses. ESFJ's are a from of caregivers like ISFJ's are. They are looking at the things a person needs as food, clothes, etc, rather than talking about what personality types people are or that kind of psychology stuff. They look at that as a waste of precious time, when they could be doing something with the 5 senses instead. They rather talk about a recipe or fashion are some examples. But they don't want to talk about it much either, they want to use their knowledge to serve others with food, fashion, etc. And then chat about fun stories while eating and socializing and everyone is all dressed up fine. They like finesse in all they do. Everything must be over the top and one or two notches higher than the norm. Presentation must be classic and fine taste with ESFJ's or it doesn't measure up to their standards. (The ISFJ caregivers are not into that fashion and finesse fine taste as ESFJ's are). ENFJ's sometimes rather sit and chat than worry of eating fine food. ESFJ's want everything fine and over the top. One of their nicknames is "Hostess with the Mostess". I find both ESFJ's and ENFJ's to be more on the controlling side, so i don't know how to differentiate them when it comes to being controlling, to me they are very similar in that aspect.

Si:
I'm not sure if I'm abstract enough to be an ENFJ. I don't usually notice the details in front of me but I can be a perfectionist about the details in my drawing, for example. I go by social graces (which can also be a Fe thing, right?). I'm not impulsive at all and quite careful and cautious. I do have my "crazy ideas" mood which can seem Ne, probably. I can be scared of things that aren't familiar to me. Nothing comes up, maybe I'll think of things later.

Can my Si traits just be Enneagram 6 traits?
Ni can think up dark things, that's normal, don't be afraid of that, it's just a part of the Ni trait. (According to numerous times i've heard or read what Ni users say.)

The details in drawing is Se. Noticing it in your art and not in things in front of you in your surroundings, is probably just Se being in the weaker part of your function stack and Ni being strong in you. Strong Ni will ignore alot of immediate details in their surroundings. Your art is personal to you and coming from inside of you so that's probably why you notice the details in your art. Se in dom or aux notices details easily in surroundings. Ni being aux and Se in tertiary would mean Ni is way stronger than Se in you. But you use Se, so it shows when you zero in on something you want to zero in on to see the details, kind of mimic of Si, but with the sharp eye of the senses of Se working with Ni, rather than Si working with Ne. Ne wants to explode many different possibilities of what the art could mean, Ni is precision focused. So hopefully that all makes sense to you and hopefully i explained it good enough for you? :)

I see you as being ENFJ.

What else makes you doubt that you are ENFJ?
 

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Some of your posts seem very Ne/Si. However, your general personality and outlook seems more ENFJ, but that might just be the irritating N bias that I still have subconsciously.

It's good to keep in mind that NJ's are very rare, while SJ's are (debatably) the most common types. Thus, there's probably a higher change of you being an ESFJ, but we shouldn't rule ENFJ just because.

Have you considered looking at a picture and describing it for us? It may give a clearer idea of your aux/tert functions and how they work.
 
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I saw a poem that you posted one time and I thought it showed a lot of Ni use.I really think your an ENFJ that can appear somewhat SJ like because of being a type 6.Si seems to be much more about detailed memories of the past and trusting that if something has been one way before or worked in the past then it will continue to be so.
 

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Si seems to be much more about detailed memories of the past and trusting that if something has been one way before or worked in the past then it will continue to be so.
The ISTJs despise it when people describe Si as a memory function. If there is a memory aspect of Si, it's very minor.
 

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@ilovemusic006

Si is the complimentary opposite of Ne, and it's strongly needed by Ne. Hence why every Ne type has Si.

A Ne type will like to debate someone's potential in an area they have never worked in before (without the word never, you're dealing with Te's evaluations, or Ti's extrapolation).

Si brings a realistic approach to compliment Ne (Se is more realistic because it's extroverted, but it's useless to Ne). The Ne type will overestimate someone's potential, and the Si type will establish a foundation for the Ne type. The Ne dominant will ALWAYS use small amounts of Si whenever they use Ne, because absolutely everything they produce must have a foundation; the opposite is also true; the Si foundation always needs something built upon it.

Ne is unrealistically innovative; Si is down to Earth.
Ne loves novel ideas; Si is loyal.
Ne is careless and doesn't take care of itself; Si is careful and focuses on bodily health.

Something that gets missed a lot on here is that Si is highly creative because it's introverted, whereas Ne isn't actually remotely unique to the individual.

This balances means that Si types love Ne and Ne types love Si.
 

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The difference between Ni and Si has obviously been mentioned here, so I'm just going to post some of @angelcat's posts on the subject. They're not too long, but I think they're especially insightful into the working of Si as she is an Si-do.

Due to my situation of being on an iPad I will be editing this post to add links for a few minutes.

Funky MBTI in Fiction - What factors discern between Ne-Si vs. Si-Ne? How...

http://funkymbtifiction.tumblr.com/post/94355486230/how-si-acts-in-all-4-positions

http://funkymbtifiction.tumblr.com/post/111289605110/interesting-explanation-of-Si
I think this is an especially interesting description of Si. It leads into that romantic, mystical qualities Si-doms tend to see their Si as having.

And just in general, here are a strong of her Introverted Sensing posts. Just glancing over them might help. She's described it in such a variety of ways that one way might click for you - either to declare that no, you definitely don't use Ni or that yes, maybe you might. :) Doont feel blighted to analyze how you fit every description or don't fit if you don't want to, but you might find it interesting if you get a spare moment.
http://funkymbtifiction.tumblr.com/tagged/introverted-sensing
 

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The ISTJs despise it when people describe Si as a memory function. If there is a memory aspect of Si, it's very minor.
Because everyone has a memory. You'd be surprised to hear reports of SJs with terrible memories. I'd be a willing participant in such a sample.

I think Si would be better described as the impression function rather than the memory function.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thank you guys so much! I think I fit the ENFJ streotype a lot more- I'm a mother hen thanks to the Fe, but I'm not a caregiver in the traditional way.

Not saying SJs can't be different, but I always felt different and more mature. Fir example, I went on a school trip where we needed to talk a lot and share our opinion, and at the end kids from my group told me that I'm incredibly smart, that I have opinions they've never heard before and I've said some things that they needed to think about thoroughly after I've said it. I look at my writing and it seems a bit Ni-ish, maybe I am an ENFJ. Urgh, no idea. Anyone has a magic truck or something to help me know? I feel closer to Ni but feel I'm not abstract enough...
 
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