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MOTM June 2011
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know I'm not familiar to the ENFJ threads, I will introduce myself, I'm Fizz and I mean no harm.

OK, now to my question. How do you use your dominant Fe? Such as social situations, familial/friend situations, everyday day life, etc. I would like to understand what it is like to be using it over all the other functions. Anything you have to add about it would be much appreciated.
 

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Fe-doms scare me. Too much personality! And they hatch devious plans... like my sister for one (ENFJ) who has at least one plan a day if not more. Then my ESFJ friend who tried to make me dance with her at her wedding -.- I had to leave the reception early, lol, I'm not dancing, especially with the bride because then everyone would be watching.

Fe-doms just got too much going on all the time, thinking about it wears me out.
 
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Fe-doms scare me. Too much personality! And they hatch devious plans... like my sister for one (ENFJ) who has at least one plan a day if not more. Then my ESFJ friend who tried to make me dance with her at her wedding -.- I had to leave the reception early, lol, I'm not dancing, especially with the bride because then everyone would be watching.

Fe-doms just got too much going on all the time, thinking about it wears me out.
*sigh* ... Fe-doms are by far the most misunderstood on PerC ...
 

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MOTM June 2011
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Fe-doms scare me. Too much personality! And they hatch devious plans... like my sister for one (ENFJ) who has at least one plan a day if not more. Then my ESFJ friend who tried to make me dance with her at her wedding -.- I had to leave the reception early, lol, I'm not dancing, especially with the bride because then everyone would be watching.

Fe-doms just got too much going on all the time, thinking about it wears me out.
Of course you're Fe auxiliary and I'm Fe tertiary, I have watched how Fe-doms work, I'd like to see it from their perspective. I thought about coming around to the INFJs and asking them about their cognitive functions. I might do that later, not sure which I want to focus on, Ni or Fe, hmm...
 

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MOTM June 2011
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
*sigh* ... Fe-doms are by far the most misunderstood on PerC ...
ENFJs and ESFJs both are Fe-dom and get bad raps, I noticed they're both Fe-dom and I was wondering if that had anything to do with it. I think Fe-doms are seen as controlling and manipulative, usually using emotions as a pawn. It's a stereotype of course, but I would like to learn about how you use Fe and how it differs (or correlates) with the stereotypes.
 

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I know I'm not familiar to the ENFJ threads, I will introduce myself, I'm Fizz and I mean no harm.

OK, now to my question. How do you use your dominant Fe? Such as social situations, familial/friend situations, everyday day life, etc. I would like to understand what it is like to be using it over all the other functions. Anything you have to add about it would be much appreciated.
Hey @Fizz ... nice of you to drop by. In fact, I was contemplating whether to start a thread about explaining Fe-dom in my terms or not - and here I see an opportunity on a silver platter :)

Fe seeks social connections and creates harmonious interactions through polite, considerate, and appropriate behavior.
Therefore, going by this definition itself rules out the possibility of a healthy Fe user being dominating / manipulative / controlling. Our preference is to ensure that the person we're talking to is comfortable, appreciated and getting full opportunity to actualize themselves. We are service oriented people -- and 9 times out of 10, we're easily able to adapt to whatever personality we're talking to / befriending. Also, you have to look at how well-developed the other functions are. An ENFJ with a balanced Fe-Ni actually becomes very different from a person with dominant Fe-Ni ... This is what I find for actualized ENFJ's and it seems to resonate with me deeply:

Nearly all ENFJs will recognize the following characteristics in themselves. They should embrace and nourish these strengths:

· Making others feel valued and important

· Quickly seeing the positive and negative aspects of a human situation

· Expressing their feelings clearly

· Offering loyalty and commitment to partners, family and work mates

· Trying to always find the solution which works for everyone

· Encouraging humour and self expression in others

· Finding ways to help others fulfil their needs

· Affirming positive community values

· Naturally falling into leadership roles in their community

ENFJs who have developed their Introverted Intuition to the extent that they can see the possibilities within their perceptions will enjoy these very special gifts:

· Understanding and empathising with the feelings of others; realising “where they are coming from”.

· A talent for creative expression which can turn ordinary things and situations into something magical.

· An enhanced feeling of connection with and sensitivity to the world around them.

· The ability to see many facets of a problem and the many ways it might be resolved for the best.

· The ability to make creative and valuable use of time spent alone.

· Openness to the spiritual connections between all things

· They become increasingly creative, visionary and empathetic, and are therefore effective and kind managers of businesses, people, and various situations that life presents.
ENFP Personal Growth

That said ...

For me, Fe-dom is basically ensuring that an understanding of humanity at all levels exists in our own mind before we choose to interact with people. It's a preference for doing good deeds and becoming service oriented individuals. We become happy when others are happy. We take energy from positive interaction and lose energy in negative situations - It's not simply attention-seeking behaviour - or having scores of acquaintances and no close bonds.

Yes, I do have 1000's of people in my phone book ... but at a time I'm inclined to bond with 1 or 2 people and then ensure that that bond is mutual and understanding. Throughout my life, at most I've 2 best friends at a time ... maximum 3 ... the rest are acquaintances that I can call on from time to time just to check up on how they're doing.

An ENFJ's greatest weakness is not their selfish behaviour --- but the fact that when we feel incapable of NOT helping someone else, it creates a conflict in our minds as to how to help. But again, we're not irrational and we're able to see who needs help and who doesn't. Don't think of ENFJ's are knights in shining armour running blindly into the heat of battle looking to save fair maidens. ENFJ's are human tacticians, constantly thinking and understanding human behaviour.

Our sensory input is expressions, eye movements, hand gestures, sitting postures - and any sign of trouble can be gauged simply by looking at people. Then it's a simple matter of discovering what the issue is - and allowing the other person to themselves verbalize their own conflict - rather than shoving our opinions / judgments down their throats.

Armed with all this information about people lets us know exactly what to do, or say, or when to say and when to act. I'm sorry if I'm not really expressing myself clearly. What I'm try to say is that we just *know* when another person is not feeling good. But at the same time we also *know* when it would be appropriate to interfere or not. We usually look for cues that the person really requires help or not. We don't push it down their throats.

For me, I just simply stand around looking for people who would be interested in me. I rarely storm into a social situation all sparkly and full of energy. I draw energy from close, intimate interaction. It's just that when I get going, I get extremely excited extremely easily, and my tone of voice combined with knowledge is such that the entire feels compelled to listen. I also get a little shy when I realize that I'm getting *too* much attention. I blush when someone pays me a compliment. And I falter over my own words every now and then.

I'm at my best when I'm helping someone. It could be something as simple as moving - to something as complex as coaxing a cross dressing friend to finally don her skirt and step out in public and just be herself. Our giving comes with self-sacrifice [which is not always a good thing]. Once I was ill in bed with a high fever, but I got a call from a female acquaintance who had run out of fuel in her car [typical damsel in distress behaviour] ... but I could not help myself. I got up, changed, got in my car and helped her get gas so that she could be on her way. That's just one example of how Fe dom behaviour manifests itself.

I have 100's of examples of similar actions I've taken all my life .. not saying that I'm a freaking saint ... it's just that this is how I'm wired and I can't help it. That's what it really means to be Fe-dom ... give and finding happiness in just giving - without expecting anything in return.

People who seem manipulative, controlling, argumentative etc are basically unhealthy versions of Fe users -
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
@Jawz Thank you very much, that was very in-depth and helpful. I am aware of an unhealthy ENFJ that I know IRL, I am not close with them for what you stated last in your post:

People who seem manipulative, controlling, argumentative etc are basically unhealthy versions of Fe users
I think that is the stereotype given to ESFJs and ENFJs because of poor experiences, stereotyping, or mistyping. I am also aware of a healthy ENFJ IRL that reaffirms that you all have the capacity for what you stated above. To go above and beyond to help others and make them feel at ease.
 

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@Jawz Thank you very much, that was very in-depth and helpful. I am aware of an unhealthy ENFJ that I know IRL, I am not close with them for what you stated last in your post:



I think that is the stereotype given to ESFJs and ENFJs because of poor experiences, stereotyping, or mistyping. I am also aware of a healthy ENFJ IRL that reaffirms that you all have the capacity for what you stated above. To go above and beyond to help others and make them feel at ease.
Another thing is that I've noticed that there are at most 5 or 6 regular ENFJ's on PerC [and as for males, they are as rare as male INFJ's which makes us even harder to find IRL]. Therefore it's not enough of a base to express ourselves as a singular entity. Not taking anything away from the INFJ's [who are amazing people] but I've seen a lot of attributes of ENFJ's being assigned to them. It's really interesting how people see Fe aux users as somehow more friendly, kind and considerate --- but then all of a sudden they imagine manipulation, control and dominance when they think of Fe-doms.

I think it won't take a lot to get ones' head around the simple fact that positive traits in an Fe-aux individual would actually be more amplified in an Fe-dom user :)

A lot of people see a person they don't fully understand and they label them as some type that they've known in the past that was negative. A lot of relational attribution without careful analysis. ENFJ's are probably harder to understand than most types a) cuz we're one of the rarest and b) we're social chameleons --- I can be an INTJ one day, or an ENTP the next .. I can even *become* an ENFP if I want because I understand them so well.

IRL you'll be hard-pressed to type me. And that I can guarantee ;)
 

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A lot of people see a person they don't fully understand and they label them as some type that they've known in the past that was negative. A lot of relational attribution without careful analysis. ENFJ's are probably harder to understand than most types a) cuz we're one of the rarest and b) we're social chameleons --- I can be an INTJ one day, or an ENTP the next .. I can even *become* an ENFP if I want because I understand them so well.

IRL you'll be hard-pressed to type me. And that I can guarantee ;)

This is realzy true for me too. I have a bunch of different groups of friends and I have found that I "become" a different person with each group, yet I am essentially the same. Its just tiny differences in how you act I guess. I have a group of "nerdy" friends - full of NT's and NF's. A group of my more athletic friends - just a lot of ExxP's. Then my friend-group at school are sort of a bunch of partiers haha *blushes and covers face*. I fit into all of them swimmingly even though they are so different because I can so easily "fit" into a group while still being able to be myself. But isnt that sort of more what Fe does?
 

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because I can so easily "fit" into a group while still being able to be myself. But isnt that sort of more what Fe does?
IMO [but I could be wrong] Being able to 'Fit in' isn't purely Fe .. until and unless you involve Ni .. the way I see it, you have to be able to *know* intuitively what it would require to fit in to the crowd. Fe is basically understanding the people themselves .. Fe Ni is using the intuition to mimic socially acceptable behaviour which ultimately allows us to 'fit in'. It's no wonder that ESFJ's actually have a harder time fitting in than we do ... they are Fe-Si ... which means less capable of predicting others' behaviour and therefore more willing to take charge - or force it if they don't get it. We fit in by being very capable mind-readers.
 

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Hmmm, I think that how I use the Fe depends a lot on what's going on.

- For one, if I'm teaching people about something, I use it to make sure that people are following and not eyes glossing over / confused.
- On the other hand, if I'm telling a story, I gauge peoples' reactions to see what parts of it, or what style of humour/etc. appeals to them.
- If I'm not participating in a situation directly, but am around a group of people, I use my Fe to get an idea for the patterns, mood and momentum of the group.

Needless to say, any of these examples are neither positive or negative. For example, I could be teaching people either nazi literature, or about why they should be concerned about the third world. I could also be scanning the mood of a room in order to capitalize on it for my own purposes, or I could be watching for negative social patterns so that I can nip them before they get out of control.

I think the thing about positive vs. negative ENFJs is that the negative ones stand out a lot more, and many people don't even notice the positive ones operating. (At least that's my opinion as to why the negative ones stand out more...that, and generally people tend to notice more quickly what's wrong than what's right)

[edit]

As for the 'fitting in' part, I think that it can be for a few reasons:

1) To me, it's really no different than learning to speak the language of a different country - even if you can get service in English, you're going to be generally more well-received if you make an effort to learn the local language and customs. Same thing goes for dealing with people in general - to me it's a sign of respect, not mindless comformity.

2) I'll be honest: Sometimes it's just flat-out bluffing. For instance, if I'm delivering pizza in a rough neighbourhood, I try to make my posture and attitude a little gruffer than if I'm delivering someone in a four star hotel. Not only are the tips better, but it's also the case that you don't want to come off as weak or nice if you're in a place where people might want to rob you.

3) Core self doesn't change. To me, I couldn't possibly care less about trivial matters like the length and colour of my hair, the clothes I wear or my style and manner of speech. (The way I get things across doesn't matter much, as long as it works). To me, the core me that's important has little to nothing to do with those things, and that's what doesn't change depending on the situation. While it's true that I show different people different sides, I rarely feel as though I'm misrepresenting myself. I'm also not sure if this is true for other ENFJs, but I've noticed that, generally speaking, my idea of "identity" is a lot looser than most peoples'. ie What the "minimum" of one's core self really is. I'm not particularly attached to a lot of things people would normally identify as part of their "sense of self", and I don't see many of those things as particularly important.

On a completely unrelated note: Am I the only one who sees this when people are talking about Fe-dom?

 

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@Crono ... you and I are very much the same. You didn't use the exact words as I, but also substantiated the social chameleon aspect of the ENFJ. I love the comment about how people don't really see us operating, but we are. And it's always in positive ways. I always back away from situations where it seems like I'd be manipulating someone ... because manipulating someone/a group goes against everything I believe in.

People have the right to make their own decisions - no matter how stupid it may seem to me ... i'll point it out gently once or twice --- but if they're hell bent on jumping off a cliff, then I'll probably be digging their grave somewhere. [that's really morbid, but what I'm trying to say is that I will not *force* a person to do anything they're not willing to do, nor would I *ever* *tell* someone that this is what they *have* to do].

I agree with the above whole heartedly ... and of course William Wallace is a huuuuge ENFJ idol of mine. I was only 15 when that movie came out --- and I've watched it at least once a year since.

That said, more than half the people here would automatically assume that *all* superhero type characters are another type --- again, because no one has actually tried to pay attention to what Fe-dom is really like. @Fizz seems to be the first person to have brought it up ... at least since I've joined.

Note: I leave you with another example of a stereotypical ENFJ trait. [I'll gladly give my life for a little one if I had too]

 

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That just reminded me how terribly bad my sensing in general is. The other day I followed a car for 5 blocks before I noticed that half of its bumper was missing. Actually, this almost sounds like the makings of a good ENFJ thread: Just how bad is your Se?
 

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That just reminded me how terribly bad my sensing in general is. The other day I followed a car for 5 blocks before I noticed that half of its bumper was missing. Actually, this almost sounds like the makings of a good ENFJ thread: Just how bad is your Se?
At least it's better than the INFJ's ;)
 

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In an alternate context to what @Crono and @Jawz have already thoroughly discussed:

I use Fe in public speaking. My rhetoric varies dramatically depending on who I'm talking to, and it helps me be more personable to the audience. For the most part, you can expect me to dish out a lot of pathos, moreso than logos or ethos. I establish ethos largely by how authentic I am when I speak, and I rarely need to establish that verbally.

I get on the nerves of a lot of my Thinker friends when I rely on emotions or gut feeling to guide my decisions. In many cases, I find myself trying to justify my emotion-based conclusions with logic and rationale, which is fine for me (social chameleon) as long as my explanation jibes with the other person and s/he arrives at the same conclusion that I do. They just won't know that my reasons for making a certain decision are not identical (but rather have an emotional extension) to the logic-oriented reasons they made the same decision.
 

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I hate hate hate hate hate being Fe dom/ENFJ. I have an ESTJ roomate and it causes so much conflict. For example, I divulge a lot about my life, and today I ws talking about bills and I didn't realize it and had said that the estj roomie (who I work with) couldn't pay her phone bill. I didn't mean anything bad by it, but when I got my she screamed to high heavens cursing me out nonstop for who the fuck was I to be spreading her shit around and how people talk shit about me and but she doesn't say anything because it ain't her business. I just felt like, destroyed. I was angered because I didn't mean anything bad by it, but I understood how she is a private person. But god, I hate how I can't not feel something.

What's it like to be an Fe dom? I couldn't tell you, but you can tell me, and I will agree. And that's what an Fe dom is.
 

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How I experience Fe... well, basically, if someone else is happy, it makes me happy. and vice versa. I see myself as defined by how other people see me.


I never 'fit in' at social situations and I'm one of the weirdest people my friends know (or so they near constantly tell me). It annoys me when people claim that Fe-doms are the ones trying to force everyone into social norms- society as a whole does this, not just us. I've never tried to make anyone behave 'normally' or treated anyone as if they're a weirdo.


most of all, Fe means that happiness comes from being liked. If people like me, I'm happy with that. If peole dislike me, it really troubles me (but I'll never manipulate them into it or anything because that is an absolute breach of values and unfair on them. It's their choice). Non-Fe-users don't seem to get this- they always tell me "you don't need to please everyone" and "stop worrying what others think of you". Different things bring people happiness, people should really stop telling me that the things that make me happy are stupid or wrong.
Oh, and especially when people think that I don't have a brain because I try to please people and never patronise them. I'm actually very academic, thank you.
 
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