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Discussion Starter #1
Fe users.... thank you for sharing in advance.
I would like for Fe explained to Fi users.
Please keep in mind that Fi or Fe are equal, but different. One function is not better than the other. Both are our feelings and values and are precious and give meaning to life. Both deserve to be honored!

Please do Fe justice. Bring links to the floor and examples as needed to help you explain what it is like. If the questions below help, then good. If you want to take your own path in explaining, please do.

How do you experience your feelings and values?
What is your experience as you empathize/sympathize with others?
How do you make decisions based on Fe?

http://personalitycafe.com/nfs-temperament-forum-dreamers/5996-extraverted-feeling.html
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have a secondary question for Fe users - why is Fe a good approach to a problem? That's what I have difficulty understanding.
hey Brightflashes, I remember the Ni explained to Ne and the switch. Where WERE those? Do you think we could find the links?
 

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Discussion Starter #5

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I have a secondary question for Fe users - why is Fe a good approach to a problem? That's what I have difficulty understanding.
Why wouldn't it be (especially when it comes to very personal/relational problems)? Considering how your choices will affect others in the grand scheme of things is important when it comes to other people's growth. Growth is something I prioritize a lot (In others and in myself). If we are to ever transcend the trappings of our egos, then we must learn to become more self-aware and grow. I also genuinely care about others. Fe helps to know when to say things and what the appropriate things to say in order to reach a person (speak their language). This can be extremely valuable when it comes to bonding with someone, forming relationships, playing mediator, building a bridge in understanding or mending a conflict. When you have multiple people cooperating together, you are also stronger together than you are alone. This is also extremely valuable. You know the saying - "two heads are better than one." Sometimes you need to get someone to calm down in order to solve a problem. You can tap into this through Fe. It depends on the context but the scenarios are endless. Fill in the blanks.

How do you experience your feelings and values?
My values tend to be constantly shaped and refined through patterns I've observed through things I've witnessed or experienced and with this data - reasoning through why something is right or wrong etc. It has to be consistent (logically sound) for me to accept it. Other people's perspectives/experiences (hearing about them) and my experience with them come into the picture of course. I adopt the parts of other people's truths to build my own system of internal values. Everyone has some valuable piece of truth to share even if they are not living in truth you can learn about truth from seeing the opposite of it there (falsehoods).

Sometimes if I suppress a certain feeling about something for too long, it unexpectedly comes to the surface in different ways when I'm alone. I usually experience it very viscerally and need to release it through crying or channeling rage in a healthy way. Writing or even exercise can help with that. It depends on what it is. It tends to be easier for me to feel my own emotions or understand them when I am on my own because when I'm around other people, I'm generally more focused on their stuff than my own. So it's not that I don't know what my feelings are, they just get temporarily pushed to the side until it's time for me to focus on them or I'm with a person where it's safe to express them and they don't feel burdened by them.

For more on how I experience my feelings, you can read about that in these threads:


http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/1193026-how-do-infjs-experince-emotion-4.html


http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/1192122-infjs-poems.html


http://personalitycafe.com/infj-for...-fe-play-role-your-thinking.html#post39865922


What is your experience as you empathize/sympathize with others?

If someone is telling me a story about themselves, I imagine it in my head, seeing them in whatever scenario they are describing. I feel what they are feeling (or what I think they are feeling/describing) and absorb it instantly in that moment. It's like seeing the world through the other person's eyes temporarily. You channel them and forget yourself. Sometimes I even hear their own voice in my head as if I'm narrating everything from their perspective. That's how I understand someone. I feel it in my body and I gladly take it on as my own. It's an honor to witness someone in such a vulnerable state. I find it inspiring and it helps me be more confident in sharing my own vulnerabilities. It is beautiful.

Now, I should note that I sometimes have trouble empathizing with people in the moment because I tend to detach and get too focused on the bigger picture sometimes. Like it takes me time to process sometimes. Almost like a delayed reaction. I think this is because I go into analytical mode quite a bit so I'm analyzing from a more detached place. Also, I've read that you cannot technically be empathetic and analytical in the same exact moment. So, it takes me time to make that shift. When I'm by myself though and have time to think in silence, and I have had an adequate amount of time to integrate what that person just shared with me, I'm able to fully feel what they are feeling/felt and I have my moment of realization where I totally understand why they are upset and how to mend things if I initially didn't understand fully. Other times I go into the detached/logical state as a way to balance things if the other person is extremely emotional. Sometimes this makes things better or worse depending on the person! lol

I've often fallen back on trying to cheer the person up or wanting to solve other people's problems but everyone is different in the type of comfort they want. Most people appreciate empathy. I don't often think of the approach to merely reflect what the person is feeling back at them because it almost feels too simple and easy. Why do I sometimes think it has to be complicated? It's amazing how just simply mirroring a person's feelings back to them like, "oh man, that sucks" (even if you don't mean or feel it - but I DO mean it when I reflect) can do a world of good. It makes the person feel heard and like they are not alone and like we are on the same side. It's important for people to feel that type of human connection. It's painful without it. And really, I'm the same way. I appreciate simple empathy too.

I just try to follow and feel out the person's thought pattern and get on the same wavelength as them if I can. I do this by asking a lot of questions, gathering information to gain a sense for the whole picture. Other times I will hug (if we're close) or offer them a different way of looking at things/some insight that I think will help. If the person's negative mood is stressing me out too much though, I tend to detach and go into problem solving mode which is quite selfish and useless if the person already came up with the solutions I came up with. Other people's emotions sometimes stress me out because I easily absorb them into my system. If I'm not already in a positive mood myself, they have the potential to bring me down if I'm not careful. Usually nothing fruitful comes out of me being in a stressed out state especially with my INFJ hubby because he also so easily absorbs my emotions even if I'm not verbalizing them.

It's also easy for me to fall into losing myself in another person and losing track of where I begin and another person ends. I've had trouble with boundaries in the past due to wanting to be close. But sometimes I've lost myself in the process and I've ended up in a bad place. When I finally realize this and break free though, it's extremely liberating. Ti has protected me a lot. Learning what the different logical fallacies are so I don't fall for people's hypocrisy/inconsistencies or flawed ideas. Ni probably helps with this too though and I am probably mistaking one for the other at times. Ultimately, I can't be friends with someone when I catch myself not sharing any of myself with the person or when the person doesn't really get me. Been there, done that. It's not worth it because there are people in the world who will very much get you and be on the same wavelength as you. Why invest in something that isn't worth it? Better for us both to benefit. I tend to look at relationships in this way because it's better for both parties if you analyze it initially so you spare each other pain in the long run if you're not compatible.

I take on other people's stuff as if it's my own. I do genuinely enjoy helping people. When someone's pain becomes your pain - it's not like it's hard to help. It becomes an immediate desire. I have learned over time that it's not my job to save everyone though and how arrogant that perspective kind of is. I used to worry too much about other people in negative mental states. I would fall into despair if someone else was depressed. It was heavy. Since then, I've decided that suffering is a gift in its own way and even if I could save someone from their own pit of despair, I'd be robbing them of an important lesson they probably need to learn on their own. Most people will be okay in time. But it does no good if we're both feeling like crap. I need to take care to center myself as well. It is easier for me to build a person up when I already feel positive and built up myself.

Dealing with another person's vulnerablities is a delicate dance. Sometimes you accidentally hit a nerve and their shame comes spilling out. You try to reassure them, build trust but this can't be forced. Sometimes they put up a wall. I will determine if this relationship is worth continuing to invest in or perhaps my energy will be better used some where else. There is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes two people just aren't very compatible. I hate feling like I am walking on eggshells all the time when it comes to volatile emotions. At the same time though, I tend to be very patient too. It's a fine line, I suppose. I am a sensitive person but I try not to be self-centered and make everything about me. I feel bad when I do. Sharing my emotions is all about the right timing. Sometimes the other person isn't in the right place emotionally to be receptive to your own stuff. Just listen and let them vent. And now it's my turn. In a healthy relationship there is an equal amount of give and take. Sometimes you're the strong one and other times, they are.

How do you make decisions based on Fe?
I like to come to a consensus and for everyone to be happy (assuming it's that type of situation where everyone can be happy - usually with more surface stuff like deciding what to eat etc.). However, overall I care more about the person's growth than anything else when it comes to the bigger issues. This can lead to some decisions that might seem cold to others on the outside - especially if they are not yet in the place where they can understand where I'm coming from. It is what it is. I don't mind being the villain in their little play if that's where they're at. It's doesn't reflect my character. They may never come to understand that I did consider them (and everyone else - including myself) when making that very "cold" decision. It may not be in the way that they wanted but at least I try to do what I feel they need. I care about other people but I also care about myself too. If I can't love myself, it's impossible for me to love other people. So it's important to make self-love a priority. What this entails is just supporting wellness and growth within myself. I believe that's what love is.

I would also say when it comes to setting or enforcing my boundaries. If someone steps over the line (with their behavior), I don't mind confronting them if I feel it's warranted. I usually give people multiple chances to change on their own or to realize things on their own and if they don't, they'll probably eventually get a piece of my mind. I don't like conflict but I dislike a lack of closure even more. I'm just going to be obsessing over the problem with the person in my head anyway if I don't express it (assuming it is worth it to me - I guess this is Fi at play too).

I tend to be aware of other people's needs a lot which causes me to feel pressured sometimes or pulled into too many different directions (spread too thin) if there's too many people. Since I'm an introvert, I see quality over quantity in connections as being better so I try to be more selective about who I choose to connect with because my energy is more limited.

I hear other people's voices in my head a lot (no, not in that way :p) - their opinions, what I think they will say. How do they see me? How do they see themselves? What would they say? Yada yada yada. Sometimes this is in a negative way and very exhausting. If it's at that point where I realize I'm obsessing or need more alone time to be able to hear my own voice again and get the nagging self-doubt inflicted by the other voices to shut up. Then everything becomes peaceful and clear once again and I can view things from the high mount of Ni which is my happy place. When it is positive, I just like talking to other people in my head. Lots of pretend conversations. I think about my relationships with other people a lot. Or analyze past conversation or future ones we could have. I think about fictional characters in shows and analyze them. I analyze myself, what everything means. This is invigorating for me. I desire to understand people. Understanding others helps me understand myself better too and vise versa.

I also like bonding with people over the things they like. If they share it with me, I will try to see the value in it and enjoy it with them. And also try to understand why they like it. Lets share something together.

Anyways, I think the rest of my responses explain the other ways I make decisions based on Fe too.

[Apologies if any of this came out convoluted or redundant sounding].
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Now I'm off to read the Fi thread!
 

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Plague Doctor
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@Vivid Melody

I understanding doing something because one "genuinely cares". I don't understand why someone would do this otherwise, though. I have enough to take care of without getting tied up in other people's emotional business. I would find doing something like that taxing and exhausting and depleting internal resources I'd rather save for myself and my family. I suppose this probably sounds harsh, but, to me, if it doesn't make sense and if it's not efficient, I don't see the use in doing it. Further, I've learned to deal with my emotions. I find it difficult to imagine other adults not being able to do this by themselves.
 

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@brightflashes

I understanding doing something because one "genuinely cares". I don't understand why someone would do this otherwise, though. I have enough to take care of without getting tied up in other people's emotional business. I would find doing something like that taxing and exhausting and depleting internal resources I'd rather save for myself and my family.
Well I typically genuinely enjoy it as well but it's satisfying in part, because I care but also because I feel like I'm fulfilling something I'm good at? If that makes sense. Usually we enjoy doing the things we are good at or feel like we have a calling for. I enjoy solving or helping with people problems. People and their emotional dramas/problems have always genuinely interested me. I'm interested in understanding them and feeling apart of it and helping if I can. It's a fine line though and I don't think it's healthy to over extend yourself, neglect other priorities in the process or for someone to become over reliant on you. It's better for a person to learn how to become independent and learn how to love themselves but sometimes people aren't there yet and they need to lean on you before they learn to walk or run again. Even so, no one is completely self-sufficient or an island even when they are in a good place. I'm not either. It's nice to have that support whenever you are struggling. The exception would be with a toxic person who would take advantage of this. In that case, it's certainly better to cut ties. But I've always enjoyed helping people talk out their pain if I can and just acting as a sounding board. It's a good release for them (people often have the answers to their problems deep within themselves if you lead them in the right direction anyway) and I like diving into other people's heads. If I feel like I'm over doing it, then I stop and take down time for myself *shrugs*

I suppose this probably sounds harsh, but, to me, if it doesn't make sense and if it's not efficient, I don't see the use in doing it. Further, I've learned to deal with my emotions. I find it difficult to imagine other adults not being able to do this by themselves.
It doesn't sound harsh to me and I can understand how that would be - especially from an INTJ perspective.
 

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Plague Doctor
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@Vivid Melody

Thank you for going into so much detail here, not only about Fe, but also your dedication to answering my question. You've given me some things to think about. I can certainly understand the attraction to practice what one is good at - it is fulfilling. I'm also interested in human behavior, but perhaps from a different angle. I would imagine our interest crosses at some point, though. Again, thanks for the information you have shared with us. : )
 

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Thank you for going into so much detail here, not only about Fe, but also your dedication to answering my question. You've given me some things to think about. I can certainly understand the attraction to practice what one is good at - it is fulfilling. I'm also interested in human behavior, but perhaps from a different angle. I would imagine our interest crosses at some point, though. Again, thanks for the information you have shared with us. : )
You're very welcome :) And yes, I would imagine so. I used to have a close INTJ friend and it was always fun/interesting to compare notes with her :)
 
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Discussion Starter #11
@Vivid Melody thank you for helping Fi to understand Fe. Much appreciated...and maybe brave...? Lol. I don’t know. ;)
 
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@Alesha

Sure thing :) I hope I did it some justice seeing as the other xNFJ's are currently in hiding ;)
 
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I was searching for some examples... Here’s the same subject (unrequited love) with Fi expression and (I believe) Fe expression. Let me know if you (hopefully plural, right @Vivid Melody?) think I got it right. Both beautiful, relatable, artistic, to any Feeling person (probably could chip through Thinkers too to their tert or inferior function) and my hypothesis is that Fe and Fi need each other, or in any case thrive together.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VjfmP7h3gBw

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zmK1H6EXUYs
 
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@Alesha

I'm assuming "On My Own" = Fe and "I Can't Make You Love Me" = Fi? If so, I think those are good examples.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
@Alesha

I'm assuming "On My Own" = Fe and "I Can't Make You Love Me" = Fi? If so, I think those are good examples.
Lol the exact opposite. Lol. Fi= On My Own...a focus on her personal feelings that she only expresses when alone to herself. Fe= I Can’t Make You Love Me— speaking to the one beloved and with an emphasis on the beloved,s feelings/stance, and not expressed to herself alone. Lol.... See? We understand each other well enough... lol. Or can empathize with each other well enough.

I could have written “On My Own”, Easily and am slightly embarrassed at the personal expression. With “I Can’t Make You Love Me” I would have never thought to write a song that described my feelings through discussing someone else’s. It’s very appreciated though. I love both songs... the cringing I get from “On My Own” is the same cringing I get whenever i express something very personal and negative.
Both songs make me feel, but it’s easy to see which one I could easily write and which one I wouldn’t have thought of. @Vivid Melody if there are 8 functions we developed, then I think you have a bit of Fi developed. I saw it when you described what you felt in a Forrest and on your own. Sorry if that may seem unsettling? I don’t know...Maybe kind of like I feel I’ve got a bit of Ni developed, but Fe is new territory, my Fi is very introverted, maybe hardly any Fe development at all in me. Maybe I can change this now I can imagine Fe a bit better. ; ). Brave indeed! Thank you, hun.
 

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Lol the exact opposite. Lol. On My Own...a focus on her personal feelings that she only expresses when alone to herself. I Can’t Make You Love Me— speaking to the one beloved and with an emphasis on the beloved,s feelings/stance, and not expressed to herself alone. Lol.... See? We understand each other well enough... lol
Lol, that's pretty funny. I actually related to the other song more which is probably due to the imagined scenarios when alone. Maybe because I lead with Ni? I think the focus there is still on the object of affection since she's pretending he's beside her the entire time. She also says she's aware that he's blind (so she is aware of how he feels) but she doesn't care and continues to fantasize and believe that there's a way for them to be together. So yeah, I guess it's either/or. Really depends more so on the individual ;) The first one is more hopeful/idealistic which is why I can relate to it more, as an NF.
 

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@Alesha

Since you edited and I didn't see the last bit until now ;)

I could have written “On My Own”, Easily and am slightly embarrassed at the personal expression. With “I Can’t Make You Love Me” I would have never thought to write a song that described my feelings through discussing someone else’s. It’s very appreciated though. I love both songs... the cringing I get from “On My Own” is the same cringing I get whenever i express something very personal and negative.

Both songs make me feel, but it’s easy to see which one I could easily write and which one I wouldn’t have thought of.
I'm probably biased because I like the song, "On My Own" better. The lyrics are more powerful, in my opinion. But yeah, it's subjective. I could have probably written either song - meaning similar styles. Maybe that sounds arrogant to say? But I don't mean it that way.


That's interesting that it made you cringe. I thought it was really beautiful even though it's tragic. Even though there's sorrow there, it's very relateable to a lot of people, probably. I dunno, I just find it to be powerful. I feel for the girl in the song too but it doesn't make me overly sad. I find it to be bittersweet. But I think that when you turn your sorrow into a song like that, it's always bittersweet in a way because Art is beauty.

if there are 8 functions we developed, then I think you have a bit of Fi developed. I saw it when you described what you felt in a Forrest and on your own. Sorry if that may seem unsettling? I don’t know...Maybe kind of like I feel I’ve got a bit of Ni developed, but Fe is new territory, my Fi is very introverted, maybe hardly any Fe development at all in me. Maybe I can change this now I can imagine Fe a bit better. ; ). Brave indeed! Thank you, hun.
No, it's not unsettling lol. In Socionics, INFJ's and INFP's both have strong Ni/Fi but one values Ni and the other values Fi. I thought that made sense. Sometimes it's hard to discern the difference between Ni/Fe and Fi too because I think they can look similar on the outside. Same for Fi/Ne - seeming like Ni to some people.
 
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@Alesha

Since you edited and I didn't see the last bit until now ;)

I'm probably biased because I like the song, "On My Own" better. The lyrics are more powerful, in my opinion. But yeah, it's subjective. I could have probably written either song - meaning similar styles. Maybe that sounds arrogant to say? But I don't mean it that way.


That's interesting that it made you cringe. I thought it was really beautiful even though it's tragic. Even though there's sorrow there, it's very relateable to a lot of people, probably. I dunno, I just find it to be powerful. I feel for the girl in the song too but it doesn't make me overly sad. I find it to be bittersweet. But I think that when you turn your sorrow into a song like that, it's always bittersweet in a way because Art is beauty.

No, it's not unsettling lol. In Socionics, INFJ's and INFP's both have strong Ni/Fi but one values Ni and the other values Fi. I thought that made sense. Sometimes it's hard to discern the difference between Ni/Fe and Fi too because I think they can look similar on the outside. Same for Fi/Ne - seeming like Ni to some people.
And the fact that you feel you could have written both...okay good, glad you didn’t have an identity crisis like my imagination wondered about as a possibility. “On My Own”is much more powerful, but all Fi confessions are difficult for us. I bawl my eyes out every time I hear “On My Own” but it’s definitely Fi... and if Fe can’t relate to Fi, then there would be a huge failing in Fe as a function. Luckily ‘it’s not so. I mean....Fe is built to detect and seek out feelings, right? So it should understand strong Fi as Strong Fi, which is what “On My Own” is. Fi= Someone’s very strong personal emotion, emotion not involved or mixed with someone elses’s feelings, but often in reaction to them, experienced Introvertedly. Yeah, expression of Fi takes trust...so I often feel like just hiding this song from most and experiencing it on my own. I remember watching all of Les Miserable with my parents and still feeling like I wanted to watch it under a blanket. Cried the whole way through, did not feel it should be shared....yeah... I do share on here, obviously...but believe me it’s with trust in my heart. NFs and beloved Ts only.
 
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@Alesha

And the fact that you feel you could have written both...okay good, glad you didn’t have an identity crisis like my imagination wondered about as a possibility.
Haha :D I believe that we all see with all of the 8 functions anyway so it makes sense that we are capable of tapping into our non preferred functions. We wouldn't be able to function (no pun intended :p) otherwise.

“On My Own”is much more powerful, but all Fi confessions are difficult for us. I bawl my eyes out every time I hear “On My Own” but it’s definitely Fi... and if Fe can’t relate to Fi, then there would be a huge failing in Fe as a function. Luckily ‘it’s not so. I mean....Fe is built to detect and seek out feelings, right? So it should understand strong Fi as Strong Fi, which is what “On My Own” is.
Yes, I feed off of the raw/passionate emotions of others ;) Like a vampire but not in a bad way lol. I often go outside of myself to stimulate my own feelings if that makes sense.



Fi= Someone’s very strong personal emotion, emotion not involved or mixed with someone elses’s feelings, but often in reaction to them, experienced Introvertedly. Yeah, expression of Fi takes trust...
Anything that makes you feel vulnerable will require trust to share and I think that is true for all types but it does seem like FP's in particular - do have a harder time opening up. Like with my INFP brother, it can be like pulling teeth to get him to share stuff he's struggling with even when he knows it will help him feel better once he does. I can be like this too but my withdrawal times are much shorter than his. Usually in that time period, I'm planning out how to express what it is I'm thinking/feeling in a way that those close to me will understand. My INFP brother just tells you every single detail of his feelings, in chronological order lol. I'll try to tell you the main highlights and it may or may not be in chronological order.

so I often feel like just hiding this song from most and experiencing it on my own. I remember watching all of Les Miserable with my parents and still feeling like I wanted to watch it under a blanket. Cried the whole way through, did not feel it should be shared....yeah... I do share on here, obviously...but believe me it’s with trust in my heart. NFs and beloved Ts only.
I imagine that song holds a special place in your heart <3 I can relate to what you talk about here to some extent. I get like that sometimes with songs. When a song is powerful to me, I almost don't want to share it with others because it becomes sacred and if they don't like it or don't feel it as powerfully as I do, it feels like something sacred has been tainted and I can never enjoy that thing ever again because the whole time I'm going to be thinking about how they think/feel about it rather than how I originally felt about it. It's annoying that this happens which is why I said I need my alone time to clear myself of the voices I don't want to hear any more. Other people get inside my head a bit too easily because I start over-empathizing with their perspectives. And this becomes even more magnified if I respect the person.
 
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@Alesha

Have you heard the 10th anniversary concert version of les miserables?
A few months ago when I was feeling a bit conflicted, I instinctively went for it, lol. I actually ended up ordering it from abroad because it was hard to get (both CDs and DVD, lol), although it requires a sort of special mood for me. But Colm Wilkonson (Jean Valjean) and Philip Quast (Javert) is special to see. Eponine is also good in that version IMO.
@Vivid Melody
To the best of my knowledge there are only 4 functions, in two orientations, your ego simply has a preferred orientation.

How do you deal with extensive vs intensive contacts? I once had a situation where I was mildly emotional, and an INFJ proceeded to try to "bleed it out". And then I was ready to really talk, and the motivation was not there to deepen the topic because the obvious emotions were gone. I admit this was a work context (although pretty close for work), but I could have easily dealt with those emotions myself. Or go all the way and talk about what was really on my mind.

How do you sync up the emotional energy into something sustainable (energy giving for both people)?
 
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