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Discussion Starter #1
Is Fe really about people?

What have you learned or read about Fe that goes beyond just other people?

For example, I've read about the need to express our feelings externally through art and writing to more properly process them.
Different from an Fi type who know well what they are feeling.

What are ways you use Fe outside of people? Or if they're concerned, in indirect ways?
Ive read more than once that some us like to go in public spaces after being isolated so long. Not necessarily to socialize but something invigorating does happen in vicinities busy with people. I personally love the energy (of any) of the holidays.

Perhaps Fe fits into the context of something global or a universal idea of people and not just direct relationships with them.
 

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I think the way I use Fe is by directing my works towards people. I want the stories and characters I create to touch people and with the risk of sounding presumptuous, maybe change someone's life for the better? But I am weird, I am the kind of person who felt bad for my characters when I considered following a different career, because I wouldn't tell their stories. And if I don't, no one will. Can you believe this? It is so silly.

So I don't speak for every Fe user out there (I say this a lot).

I don't really care for direct contact with other people, I would actually prefer to keep it to a minimum, if possible, at least most of the time. So, in your own words, I use Fe in a indirect way, expressing my feelings, my values even, through art (writing, drawing).
 

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[Muses:] I wonder if we're connecting not so much with people as individuals as with an ethos, or a distillation of people idealized...? In other words, we feel and connect with an ambient aura--which I know sounds like mumbo-jumbo, but it's a real thing, the same thing as when a live performer (or audience member!) feels the mood of the crowd--and our artistic works or communications are an expression of, or reaction to, or off-throw of, that. And so maybe it's not really about individual people per se but rather about (in the supernatural sense) channeling and dealing with the collective spirit of people en masse.

Or something. :rolleyes:
 

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The Fe/Ti axis seems identical to the process of photosynthesis in plants. Fe converts light energy which Fi inherently exudes into a more reactive energy under the meticulous scope of Ti which is later released to fuel other organisms' activities. When we talk about Fe we also have to talk about Ti, since that is where the unique signature of the soul resides and the decider of who or what shall receive synthesized 'Fe'. It is not only limited to people or animals, also deities, Gods, spirits that exist through archetypal images. Images of which many people wear without awareness to their true meaning. So with a type with leading intuition and auxillary Fe the metaphysical interpretation stands out first most times.
 

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[Muses:] I wonder if we're connecting not so much with people as individuals as with an ethos, or a distillation of people idealized...? In other words, we feel and connect with an ambient aura--which I know sounds like mumbo-jumbo, but it's a real thing, the same thing as when a live performer (or audience member!) feels the mood of the crowd--and our artistic works or communications are an expression of, or reaction to, or off-throw of, that. And so maybe it's not really about individual people per se but rather about (in the supernatural sense) channeling and dealing with the collective spirit of people en masse.

Or something. :rolleyes:
I've always referred to this as their "vibe," to put it simply - But you're right!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I do believe it, :tongues: I believe you had to make them real.

I reread some of what I'vebeen writing this past month --i suppose I don't usually know what I'm doing
I justwant to fulfill a space and this comes out of it ^^
I sort of search until I find it.
Entering a place in my head that I can really feel. Sounds odd writing that now...

In the same way I dress and perhaps eat certain things. I think that I am also affected by environment and it helps me a lot to change it-- to make it clean, clear out things I don't need
Even add symbols that put me in a place I want to be.

This is Fe for me. Because I don't necessarily have control over people in my life nor do I want to , nor might I be interestedin them...
As I get older I have began to focus more on realizing an imaginary or even fantasy world
Making it actually happen.
Yeah I find it does happen both on a large scale and individually
There have been threads or thread on that, on people taking on other people's emotions (ie mirror neuron)
I guess personally I am not so connected that way-- Even with my emotions I am detached and watch them.

I also have a dislike towards it anyhow... maybe I won't get into that here

Anyway I do enjoy all the fashion and changes in products
I used to work at a cafe and find myself eating or drinking things before others order them. Or a bunch of people will order the same specific things
Interest in certain designs, clothing before it hits Paris.. okay this one's a little weird.
I remember wonderingback then how people would come in waves. All these people who are strangers to each other but want to order at the same time. Some come from outside from their cars, others inside. And then randomly you get these other customers who order totally alone.
The lone ones obviously there can be a logical explanation but yeah.

Anyway I gather I created this topic just to see well, what does happen for people like us who do not put so much emphasis on people (or can't or wont) but still have a need to put something out there in the external (as in, to shape it).
 

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But Fe tastes so much better with actual people :p Lol, jokes aside, one thing I thought of was vicariously living through fictional characters in a story or show. But I've read that is also inferior Se at play rather than going out and collecting real experiences of your own. Or if you were to create your own characters for a story and write about them. That's another way. Or if you were to learn about a real person - read all their books and feel really connected to the person but you know you'll never actually meet them in the flesh.

I personally love the energy (of any) of the holidays.
I do too. I think this could also be our inferior Se being tickled. I find the atmosphere invigorating and inspiring.
 

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While Fe is often considered to be people-oriented, I often like to express it through artwork. It's somewhat of a way to express myself. This can be in certain ways but it sometimes is involving people I interact with. I often get attached to characters I draw especially if they have some sort of basis on people in real life. I sometimes can't stop drawing them if I have enough free time. Sometimes I use it to express myself and feelings that I am having. When I am in a space with people I am comfortable with, I do think a lot about them and my fe goes towards people in that sort of sense. I know it can be different for different people. It works in different ways.
 

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Is Fe really about people?
Yes; but only by "implication," and/or, I argue that 'feelers' priorities revolving 'people'-fixations are side-effects, rather than 'direct fixation' points (re: in the same ways "emotions," and "actual feelings,") are simply side-effects / symptoms - rather than what 'feeling' ultimately focuses on, and thus "people fixation," and "subject-fixation," are not the same.



(Fe/Fi)-function(s) are about human-anatomy (re: well-being).


________

Thus, we can start with the 'distinctions' [via] thinking/feeling


What (Thinking) is 'ultimately' aboout ::

(Te)



(D) Structure: - All internalized (physical - properties / rules / attributes / substances') belonging to (X);

(E) "Things":- All external intimate-objects consisting of (attribtes / properties / substances)

(F) "Objects": - All external events, state-of-affairs, occurrences, et al - "existing," outside the subject/self



Although, it is not so much what (D, E, F) entails, but rather, it is in this arrangement/order in which the (Te)-specimen (or function) fixates on (F, E, D) that distinguishes it from the (Ti)-subset meta-meta preferences (D, E, F).


(Ti)

(D) Structure: - All internalized (physical - properties / rules / attributes / substances') belonging to (X);

(E) "Things":- All external intimate-objects consisting of (attribtes / properties / substances)

(F) "Objects": - All external events, state-of-affairs, occurrences, et al - "existing," outside the subject/self


A "preferences inside preferences," is what I posit. Ti is (D)-dominant with aux (E), Te is (F)- dominant with aux (E).

[HR][/HR]

What (Feeling) is ultimately about ::


(A, B, C) would deal with (Feeling). As I understand it: "feeling ---> subject-fixation," (as I expanded on in another post):

Thus, feeling will deal with 'anatomical well-being':

(A) - Human-anatomy of subjects

(B) - Pysiological make-up of subjects

(C) - Psychological well-being of subjects

__________________


What are ways you use Fe outside of people? Or if they're concerned, in indirect ways?
(Fe/Fi) fixation on specimen(s) are side-effects:

________


(Feeling) - as I understand it, deals with the anatomic-function / well-being of subjects - which is never said within typology itself, although, it becomes evident "Feelers," will be fixated on subjects (regardless of external / internal) stimuli, but differential anatomic "states" - thus, for the feeler, it is a subconscious reflex to be concerned with either the psyiological / psychological / anatomic states of subjects (including themselves), above all else, to which such logical-judgments will be made with the following categories/fixations/focuses in mind.

And I suppose, when we here 'fixation on subjects,' a hueristical-reflex occurs that equates it to nurture, habital care, and "emotions,", which may be a side-effect, however, not what "feeling," actually is - or 'fixates' on, which is not emotions, caring for other specimens, rather it is a logical-function constantly making judgments on the high-functioning anatomic states / well-being of surrounding agents + subjects:



So what is "subject-fixation," concerned with (?)

Ex; (1)


In general: (A, B, C):


(A) -

 
Anatomy of other subjects (re: organ health / bone health / muscluar/tissue health) - health of body :




(B) -

 
Physiological well-being (re: chemical-make-up / hormonal level + homoestatis / stability) of subjects:





(C) -

 
Psychological states of subjects: (emotions / feelings / biases / cognition/mind)




::



(Fi)-users will be utilizing the anatomic-states of themselves to address the anatomic-states of other humanoids;

(Fe)-users will be utilizing the anatomic-states of others; to address the anatomic-states within themselves;


Somewhere in between, values are formed.

::

If you wish; I can demonstrate what "logical-judgments on anatomic," states looks like (re: the distinctions between F/T - and Fi/Fe), however, I wish to keep this post less lengthy.



If we will break these down in "degrees", rather than either/or black/white:

(Fi) will have more fixation on (A, B) in this order,

While (Fe) will have more fixation on (B, C) in this order:

_______________


(Thinking) - as I understand it, will be logical-judgments via with the ('anatomic function / structure / state-of-affairs') of all non-subjects which entails "objects," - but not always, some "thinking," function(s) can be utilized to break-down the anatomic-structures of subjects (re: "psychology of 'humans'), however, it differs from that of the feeler, in so far as it is not concerned with overall well-being, of said structures: which may by implication/disposition create a 'cooler' demeanor - but I do consider this a "strong" / sound distinction between the 'feeler/thinker' - in so far as there certainly are "emotionally cold" feelers (re: INFJ) - and "emotionally soft thinkers," (re: INTJ):

Reflecting back on the "thinking function," itself: it will fixated on (the following below in the opposition to the 'feeler' function):


Ex; (2)


It can entail things;

State-of-affairs; -----> (Do not confuse this with the 'perception' function(s))

Events; ------> (Do not confuse 'events' with the (Ni) dealing with time-lapse / essences) - rather than direct events themselves:



(D, E, F)


(D)

 
Structure: - All internalized (physical - properties / rules / attributes / substances') belonging to (X);





(E)

 
"Things":- All external intimate-objects consisting of (attribtes / properties / substances):





(F)

 
"Objects": - All external events, state-of-affairs, occurrences, et al - "existing," outside the subject/self






If we will break these down in "degrees", rather than either/or black/white:

Ex; (Te)-doms are less analytical than (Ti)-doms,

Thus the (Te)-doms fixation revolves around (F, E),

While the (Ti)-humanoid follow (D, E) - in this order:


[HR][/HR]



Ive read more than once that some us like to go in public spaces after being isolated so long. Not necessarily to socialize but something invigorating does happen in vicinities busy with people. I personally love the energy (of any) of the holidays.

Perhaps Fe fits into the context of something global or a universal idea of people and not just direct relationships with them.
Although, I think the "feelers," have a tendency to mistype due to high-functioning dynamicism to NOT fixate [solely] on humanoids, but to also "adopt," [the thinker] mindset - adaptively / opportunistically so ::


Based off the above: It appears to myself,


As to why "feelers," are more likely to type themselves as thinkers; it does not seem to be rooted within the (strong thinker/logic) bias, although, it may occur in less skilled-specimens within typology (&) be products of other personalized/psychological-malfunctions (e.g., insecurities), but this is not all it is.

"Feelers," may be more susceptible to high-functioning cognitive / psychological biases via the fixation on (congition / subject-fixation) in general, which is demonstrated to be 'unreliable' in scientific discourse, and other highly sound / reliable testing methods: (re: why 'ancedotal evidences / "experiences" / appealing to intuition over trial/error) and other subject-related abstractions are simply unreliable; which does not surprise me that 'feelers' may have more malfunctions typing themselves accurately than "thinkers" due to the the genetic / cognitive-disposition make-up to fixatue on less reliable "typing" methods when addressing themselves: - while 'thinkers' certainly have malfunctions typing themselves, and are susceptible to the same human-baises / hueristical reflexive thinking disregarding deeper analysis of the self:

Futher, a specimen may say in defense of this oppsition, "feelers have deeper understanding of themselves," (and who they are), which indeed, may be true on (surface-value psychology (re: "emotions") and/or other reflexive conscious-outputs, but this does not seem to be case when devolving deeper into the subconscious to which (cognition / and/or the 'inner workers') of humanoids has yet to be accurately described as "what is," (and how the 'self-subject' operates), in the subconscious degree: meaning, the deeper the "feeler" goes into understanding themselves via typology (re: appealing to the anatomic / psychological-states of themselves), the more unreliable, dogmatic / hueristic - it becomes. Which may certain explain why we have more "confused" feelers typing as thinkers; than vice versa. The thinker, due to less subject-fixation (will have a small, however significant) reduction in susceptibility to such internalized-psychological / cognitive-biases due to appealing to (structures / things / objects), outside of the self - or the subject. Creating a more 'stable' foundation in typing oneself; even if the foundation is 'unstable', the accuracy of such typing increases - due to the reduction of psychological-bias implementation.
 

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Is Fe really about people?

What have you learned or read about Fe that goes beyond just other people?

For example, I've read about the need to express our feelings externally through art and writing to more properly process them.
Different from an Fi type who know well what they are feeling.

What are ways you use Fe outside of people? Or if they're concerned, in indirect ways?
Ive read more than once that some us like to go in public spaces after being isolated so long. Not necessarily to socialize but something invigorating does happen in vicinities busy with people. I personally love the energy (of any) of the holidays.

Perhaps Fe fits into the context of something global or a universal idea of people and not just direct relationships with them.
The way I interpret mbti I don't see Fe or Fi at all as having to do w/ human interaction/socializing. Although it is something that tends be good for that, because it's good at observing, interpreting and judging emotions, I certainly don't see it as something that is limited to only that use, and my interpretation is that everyone uses an F side for half of all of their higher level mental processes which certainly isn't limited to only social interaction.

So to expand some:
I see F/T being paired w/ N/S as a single function... and so everyone has either an NF side and ST side or an NT side and an SF side

where N/S refers to the subject matter being focused on. N= hypothetical/generalizations, S= situational/specifics

And F/T:

T is left side of the brain linear logic along lines of "If a=b and b=c, then a=c" things you can easily express in linear language and mathematics.

While F is right side of the brain emotional logic along the lines of "If I take into account factors a +b +c +d+...+z then my brain unconsciously calculates some average estimate ..it's still logic, but more unconscious and more emotional, estimates, more relying upon analogies..and is often not easily able to be explained linearly but rather through symbolic means.

So F although it often is used for dealing w/ human interactions since human interactions are complex and rely on a lot of unconscious calculations of subtle factors.. and involve emotions which are vague complex unconscious mix of many factors blended together ..F is heavily used often in human interactions, but I don't see it all something limited to that use...

..in fact the whole way interpret mbti is that half the people NF people use their more emotional F thinking to focus on more general/hypthetical (N) concepts, while the other half SF use that F side to focus on situation (S) information and ideas... and neither hypothetical (N) nor situational(S) concepts are in no way limited to only focusing on human interactions.

As for the thinking style I see:

P thinking I see as gathering ideas and assessing them internally.

E--P focuses more on gathering ideas and evaluating by weighing possibilities against each other.

I--P I see as focusing more on internal logic( or in terms of Fi internal emotions) to meticulously assess the details of concepts , more focusing on individual in detail concept one at a time

J I seeas developing concepts internally and then assessing/testing them in the external world.

I--J I see as focusing on developing concepts and plans internally, focusing more time and energy on the drawing board/planning phase, whereas E--J is more of a trial and error, where there isn't much planning, but rather constant minor adjustments and tweaking in response to what is observed (through Fe for E-FJ) in the trials.


So myself being an ENTP (which would have an ESFJ/FeSi secondary side), it makes sense that I very much find that when ever I do anything my way of going about it is trial and error where I get better at stuff through practice, I rely on gut feels for any situation judgement calls or pretty much anything I do and very much feel like I'm sort of blind swordsman often because I have no idea how or why I did stuff the way I did.

Some examples: at work there's a blind corner I often have to walk around, and at some point I realize I could always tell when someone was coming around a corner, it's like my spidey-senses are tingling...and I didn't know why, and I think i figured out because when people are approaching the corner there is a faint shadow that you can see on the floor and I was picking up on that unconsciously.

Another example is playing guitar and violin. I'm very much a feeler when it comes to playing music. Violin is something that requires a lot of finesse with bow pressure and vibrating fingers and such to get a good tone, and for me when I play other instruments such as guitar I very much enjoy focusing on producing a good tone which to me feels like a very kinesthetic aspect of playing an instrument...adjusting touch in response to sound. Another thing is I enjoy improvising and when I play I can think of some melody in my head and play it in a similar way to whistling where I just play what notes I hear in my head w/o knowing what notes I'm playing..I could think about and work it out..but for me picking notes to play is just going w/ my gut feeling leading the way , there is very little conscious mental thought of what notes i'm playing.

I personally feel like my brain is very lop sided, perhaps more than others... I'm very T when it comes to talking about philosophical ideas and having conversations, but then when it comes to doing things and making decisions my feelings definitely lead the way.

I do find myself observing a similar thing in others. Those who are more T dominated when it comes to talking about philosophy and politics tend to be more guided by emotions when interacting and performing tasks. In contrast, I find those who are more Feelers when it comes to philosophy and politics tend to be more systematic when it comes to performing tasks.
 

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[Muses:] I wonder if we're connecting not so much with people as individuals as with an ethos, or a distillation of people idealized...? In other words, we feel and connect with an ambient aura--which I know sounds like mumbo-jumbo, but it's a real thing, the same thing as when a live performer (or audience member!) feels the mood of the crowd--and our artistic works or communications are an expression of, or reaction to, or off-throw of, that. And so maybe it's not really about individual people per se but rather about (in the supernatural sense) channeling and dealing with the collective spirit of people en masse.

Or something. :rolleyes:
I wrote in my last post my explaining my interpretation of mbti and how I see Fe as really just abstract mental sensing that doesn't necessarily have to applied to social interactions ( though it tends to be good for that) ... but I think maybe a good example of how it can be used other than just human interaction, is sensing the zeitgeist of a situation, like the feel/mood of a room or crowd rather than just individual people, or moving away from talking about people.. sensing that the weather outside is about to change, or that something is about to happen, feeling which way the stock market is going to go, or how a football team is going to do, or that something good or bad is about to happen in your life..feeling the flow of the universe around, and collective consciousness of humanity, etc..

I'm not sure if that's exactly the sort of thing you were saying there... but i think i probably agree w/ you.
 

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If there are no people around to express my Fe towards, I'll probably channel it into music! Either playing, singing, listening. I find music helps me to get it out of my system in bursts and go back to being pretty level headed. My Fe and Se can make me a bit jittery sometimes, haha.

I also find that just calling someone helps. I'm usually on the phone with my boyfriend, just chatting about anything...so I guess I'm never really 'without' someone to talk to.
 
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