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Does anyone else feel an automatic sense of trepidation when they meet an ESTP? I don't why I do, I just do, and I don't think I really feel nervous around anyone that isn't an ESTP.
Fear of ESTPs
[ESTP]
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What about an ESTP would make you feel nervous, and why?
Most of the ESTPs I meet give me this sense of social affability thats a bit rowdy at times, but generally I get very little negative energy from them.
Most of the ESTPs I meet give me this sense of social affability thats a bit rowdy at times, but generally I get very little negative energy from them.
I'll bite. I think people are offended by our improv nature, we don't think, or we're not thinking what they think is the right answer, we're not consistent, so we have a bit of an unpredictability, to our nature, that seams threatening. And we like to to throw words. I can be very sarcastic at times. Like, Michelle Bachmann makes Ronald Reagan look like Einstein. It's funny because it's true. Anyways I imagine myself being at what are called-back in the day when they actually had these things-, at a Georgetown party in the mid sixties, with a couple of apple martinis and a good quip about people I dislike.
And therein is another thing, I think people with a set of values-not that we don't have them-would say 'if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all.' I was reading how 90% of all high school dropouts are Artisans. So, I think everything that makes us us is either bad, inappropriate, or something of that nature. That's why people might be offensive by us, and never really accept us.
Fellow SP/Artisan, no hard feeling about the question raised.
And therein is another thing, I think people with a set of values-not that we don't have them-would say 'if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all.' I was reading how 90% of all high school dropouts are Artisans. So, I think everything that makes us us is either bad, inappropriate, or something of that nature. That's why people might be offensive by us, and never really accept us.
Fellow SP/Artisan, no hard feeling about the question raised.
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I'm not sure exactly, I think maybe, a sense of toughness/inferiority they give me? Hmm, I think the directness/bluntness might intimidate me, to be honest. I feel that though with most ESTPs not all.
Explain the toughness/inferiority part? We are blunt. We like to say what's on our mind, at least I do. I'm known for not having a filter.
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Well, I speak and think at the same time, I don't think before I talk, I say quite the stupid/random things sometimes and I'm scared of being insulted/scorned, as for inferiority, I feel socially awkward compared to them, the ESTPs I know seem flawless and loved by all which somewhat intimidates me as they seem like they could be powerful forces to be reckoned with.
Well, first of all thanks. On behalf of all ESTPs, I take this honor, and it will have a place on the ESTP board mantle. So, yes I can just drop on in and people love me. I will say though, we had a thread awhile back ago where it was "ESTPs how do you define love", and most of us had our fingers up our nose, I know I said "you mean besides life". Some had very good answers how a relationship works, I mean real good. And then there have been quite a few threads, that peg us as one night stand and social fling people...by the way I sense within our group we have a love hate relationship with that image. I've gone through that phase where I want to bag people, just like my hero ,JFK, who also was an ESTP, but that's generally looked down upon in here. I had problems making the social networking, with things that last. My friends were all NFs, so they would be the ones thinking about let me give you my email and such. That is for me at least, dates, long lasting friends, and references. The last, I desperately need, the first two I can live without. But it's hard to pick up a job without references. And that's another thing. Having exs, friends, dates, gives a person a wider range of references, that could be called the big picture. We have a weakness for not seeing the forest and instead, focusing on the trees. Now, I'm only speaking for myself, but I hope I did our community right, people may tinker a little with what I just said, in how it fits them, and they may disagree with what I just said. That's okay. This is just the general idea. So, that's the crux of the relationship aspect from where I see it. I hope that helps.
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You're welcome. Mmhmm, it kind of helped. If you can, may you please tell me what ESTPs scorn and insult?
Well, I know I'm not really taken in by people who want to change the world. This Occupy Wall Street movement, I'm cynically optimistic. On the one hand, yes, we need them doing what they are doing, because there is a huge, mammoth, economic gulf between the haves and have nots, even among those that did everything right, people who stayed out of trouble, went on to secondary and Masters Degree's programs,getting burdened with student loan debt-I initiated a thread in the education forum, that caught on like wildfire, of the odds people face in today's society, and that needs addressing, and Obama was supposed to be the one to do it, and he greatly disappointed there. So there's that, then there's on the other hand,this is what you get for living inside the Beltway next to DC where important agencies are located,there's this sense it could become this let's go down to the World Bank/IMF meeting and protest, and get jailed by the DC police for tying up traffic, and we lose another battle, who's with me? I mean, all one has to do is go down to McPherson Square(White House metro rail stop) for 6 months. Go down there everyday. Are we making any progress with banning nuclear weapons Mr. lone protester? And I was reading just yesterday, that like clockwork, cops are thinking-the establishment is thinking, the protestors have overstayed their welcome, now it's tear gas and billy club time. I can see their point, but really Mr. Cop, it's in the Constitution that people can address grievances, though this would not be the first time the Constitution is trampled upon. So, that's what gets my scorn,people who think they can change the world,when they're not seeing the potential damage or reality they may cause-see Prohibition-by doing so.
I know so many male & female ESFPs.
We are similar to you ESFPs in the sense that we stay youthful, are impromptu and very social. I know some pretty blunt ESFPs who are just as sarcastic, direct, insulting, arrogant, witty, etc. Is it the confidence level that bothers you? We certainly don't give off that warm, fuzzy feeling you ESFPs do nor do we have the intrapersonal heart meter that you have. I've had people mention this to me, that I am intimidating yet playful which is sort of contradictory. I just see myself as a goof ball who can flip the "doer, thinker, get down to business" switch at any moment. I go in and out of this all day.
All in all we are pretty accepting of people.
The sense of toughness/inferiority doesn't come from us putting on airs. Just imagine we are a lot like you but that lack of intrapersonal meter, so to speak, doesn't lend to much insecurity or doubt so we are able to move on through life without much intimidation.
There's no need to feel inferior. Just be yourself, we ESTPs appreciate genuine people.
That's another thing, I think people thought I was being bad,but I was being challenged and I like a little adrenaline race ya. I think that may have led to the fear factor in my own little world, cause I was so unpredictable. I've tested ISTP at times, I think it's because we're cousins in a sense,brothers, sisters, that we'll have some of our SPs at our side in our great endeavor.
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I've actually realized this the other day about myself. As much doubt about myself as I have, I go around with more confidence and gusto than most of my peers. So, when I think someone doesn't care about me or whatever these doubtful thoughts are of others, it tends to be the opposite, that they're more intimidated by me than I am of them, and that I put off a very strong cold and disinterested vibe towards others because I'm just used to doing that, or I don't want people to get the impression that I'm vulnerable. It's not necessarily that I think others are inferior or that I'm tough, it's just what I know and who I am. It'd be weird if I tried to be all warm and fuzzy...I can't pull it off.
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Sometimes I get the sense that my interactions with ESTP's are entirely dictated by what thought happens to enter their head at the time as opposed to any latent morals, values or logical rules the ESTP abides by. Whatever impulse comes up is what they do, and it's almost impossible to tell what a persons impulses are without knowing them well. Thus in my experiences ESTP's who heavily use Se end up coming off as crude pleasure-seekers or unscrupulous, designing sybarites. A pettifogging captiousness often develops, or an absurdly scrupulous morality coupled with a primitive, superstitious and 'magical' religiosity, harking back to abstruse rites.
Sensing functions in general seem to have a harder time 'connecting' with their other functions while being used. This mostly applies to unhealthy ESTP's but when they become neurotic, they are much harder to treat in the rational way, because the functions to which the physician must appeal are in a relatively undifferentiated state; hence little or no trust can be placed in them. Special means of bringing emotional pressure to bear are often needed to make them at all conscious.
Jung actually said this in his description of dominant extraverted sensors: "The whole culture of thought and feeling seems, in this second personality, to be twisted into a morbid primitiveness; reason is hair-splitting sophistry -- morality is dreary moralizing and palpable Pharisaism -- religion is absurd superstition -- intuition, the noblest of human gifts, is a mere personal subtlety, a sniffing into every corner; instead of searching the horizon, it recedes to the narrowest gauge of human meanness."
Sensing functions in general seem to have a harder time 'connecting' with their other functions while being used. This mostly applies to unhealthy ESTP's but when they become neurotic, they are much harder to treat in the rational way, because the functions to which the physician must appeal are in a relatively undifferentiated state; hence little or no trust can be placed in them. Special means of bringing emotional pressure to bear are often needed to make them at all conscious.
Jung actually said this in his description of dominant extraverted sensors: "The whole culture of thought and feeling seems, in this second personality, to be twisted into a morbid primitiveness; reason is hair-splitting sophistry -- morality is dreary moralizing and palpable Pharisaism -- religion is absurd superstition -- intuition, the noblest of human gifts, is a mere personal subtlety, a sniffing into every corner; instead of searching the horizon, it recedes to the narrowest gauge of human meanness."
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I take it you like using the thesaurus function?
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I made it a bit easier to understand:
"immoral, designing pleasure-seeker. An unnecessary habit of trying to find faults in others often develops, or an absurdly principled morality coupled with a primitive, superstitious and 'magical' religiosity, harking back to esoteric rituals."
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I never said I didnt understand it; I was just trying to make a point that people dont normally talk like that during normal speech unless they are trying to fit as many syllables into a sentence in an effort to impress others. Usually it backfires and makes the person sound like a pompous ass, so be careful. Gosh, my dad was a perfect example of that....but that's another story entirely! :shocked:
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I can't say I've ever had a fear for any other type, no. x3
I don't typically relate to them, though. ^^
I don't typically relate to them, though. ^^
Explain, I don't want to get into a choke on the bone, but I'd like you to explain this part, give me examples? Your whole post just seems like a post in search of a point lol, I do that a lot, with a vague rant on how you can't stand us ESTPs. I'm not going over to your board.
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Haha, to be completely honest much of what I posted were parts of a Jung description of Se users that I read and felt like I had actually written myself. Though I did add things here and there.
Like I said almost everything I posted were actually parts of a Jung description of dominant Extraverted Sensors that I identified with. Though, I did add some parts to it. You can read it here: http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm
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