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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
"Since their Feeling side is their least developed trait, the INTP may have difficulty giving the warmth and support that is sometimes necessary in intimate relationships. If the INTP doesn't realize the value of attending to other people's feelings, he or she may become overly critical and sarcastic with others."

INTPs often have a reputation of being cold and robotic and not understanding the meaning of emotions or feelings. I was just wondering if there are any INTPs that break the mold out there? I think I break the mold because I am usually attentive when people tell me about what they are feeling, I process it all logically and if I'm giving advice its super logical which I would assume would be different than feelers. But I do attend to peoples feelings and understand the importance behind it. Depending on the situation sometimes I will factor in the feelings of someone my decision could be affecting before I come to a decision.

I also will tell someone what I feel if I'm close enough to them and I've actually criticized my friend who is an ISTJ for not listening to me and becoming stubborn when I tell her what I'm feeling and when I'm opening up to her. Which is something I can't picture many INTPs doing. That being said I don't wear my feelings on my sleeve and for me to actually tell you my emotions you have to be pretty damn close to me.

Just wondering if there are any other INTPs like this out there
 

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I often feel strange because even though I am an INTP I don't seem to have a problem with emotion. My emotions may not be as nuanced and complicated as others, but I have always been able to be direct about how I am feeling and able to understand and connect with the feelings of others. I've never been afraid to tell someone that I like or dislike them.

It gets me into trouble a lot actually, because the emotional side and rational side of my personalities often contradict one another. I know what love is, because I've felt it, but I also can't rationally believe that someone would want to treat me so differently from the other random people in the world, which has led many former girlfriends to be quite confused by me. Lots of dichotomies like that.
 

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Our emotional responses are childish and primitive, which is why we control them.

The irony is that this truth is actually the same for all humans. It's our badass psyche that allows us to be above such things.

And yes I do believe emotions are untrustworthy and unrealistic. Emotions are manifested within the Limbic system in not only mammal brains, but other branches of the tree of life as well.

This means it's old hardware.

It was covered up billions of years later on in US HUMANS with our advanced neocortex---the best part of the brain! The part that allows humans to be humans. You see--it's not emotions that define humanity...it's emotions that define our animilistic traits because they are the traits we still have in common with our mammalian ancestors. We still share the same basic outdated hardware, in that respect.

But that neocortex put all that to shame when it comes to awe and superiority. Beautiful structure. Language, spatial reasoning, planning, imagination, ALL those amazing things. Human evolutionary accomplishment alone, no other species.

It's a shame nature is so cruel and unforgiving-----so many humans in the world have problems balancing their mammalian instincts with their higher level thought processes.

It's honestly the sole reason for every single human hardship that has ever existed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Our emotional responses are childish and primitive, which is why we control them.

The irony is that this truth is actually the same for all humans. It's our badass psyche that allows us to be above such things.

And yes I do belief emotions are untrustworthy and unrealistic. Emotions are manifested within the Limbic system in not only mammal brains, but other branches of the tree of life as well.

This means it's old hardware.

It was covered up billions of years later on in US HUMANS with our advanced neocortex---the best part of the brain! The part that allows humans to be humans. You see--it's not emotions that define humanity...it's emotions that define our animilistic traits because they are the traits we still have in common with our mammalian ancestors. We still share the same basic outdated hardware, in that respect.

But that neocortex put all that to shame when it comes to awe and superiority. Beautiful structure.

It's a shame nature is so cruel and unforgiving-----so many humans in the world have problems balancing their mammalian instincts with their higher level thought processes.

It's honestly the sole reason for every single human hardship that has ever existed.
I believe your logic is flawed because whether you like it or not happiness is an emotion and if you're not happy what is the point in living. Other emotions like fear serve a very important survival aspect. Why won't you drive down the freeway blindfolded at 200mph sounds fun right? Because you're afraid of doing that. Love has also played a pivotal role in the continuation of the species. Im not saying that without love we'd go the way of the dinosaur but what I am saying is that love certainly helps because its a reaction to chemicals actually. Anger is also useful because it can motivate you to do something or it can let other people know not to do something to you again. If someone always did bad things to you and you never got angry you'd be a doormat dude, in a world without emotions if someone did something wrong they would keep doing it wrong or keep doing bad things to some other person because there is no one there to get frustrated with them no one there to rain wrath down upon their day. Which goes back to fear, people are afraid of punishment and simply yelling at someone is often a punishment in itself. Back in a time where there were no laws angering someone could mean death which is certainly bad for survival. So these two are actually pretty important. A world without emotions would be a world without good music because all music is emotional even if its death metal, a world without good movies because all movies are intended to invoke some kind of emotional response from the viewer be it excitement or romance, just a plain boring world man without much to enjoy because going back to happiness. If you're not happy doing anything whats the point of doing in? If sitting on your ass and doing derives the same amount of happiness as learning to play guitar, learning science and math, learning how to build something or make something, whats the point in doing it at all if you won't get paid for it? The world would just be a sad boring world where everyone is pretty much cookie cutter and the same because no one wants to do anything. They don't want to listen to music, they don't want to go out for drinks, they don't want to watch a movie, they don't want to learn anything, hell they may not even want to have sex. Emotions are more than just bubbly feelings and butterflies in your stomach. They encompass a whole range of things including: Happy, sad, angry, afraid, shocked, disgusted, love, aroused, surprised, hate, excited, confused, enthusiastic, annoyed, bored, regretful, optimistic, pessimistic, sarcastic, bashful, skeptical, and many many others. Even apathy itself could be considered an emotional state. And some of these are very important for communication. Since body language, facial expressions and tone of voice are often more important in communicating that what is actually said all of which are derived from emotions. That is why your logic is flawed my friend.
 

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How is it flawed?

I said obsolete, not irrelevant. CD's are obsolete, and I still use my burner. Wasn't trying to say they were worthless/stupid/shouldbedoneawaywith at all.

lol anyone that says emotions are completely worthless and have no place in humanity obviously has some shit to work out.

Emotions were never meant to govern intellect-------that's just how it is, and probably my ultimate take home point here.

People keep trying to force it to work the other way, though....

This reality says absolutely nothing positive or negative about the usefulness of emotional response.

Just that it's obsolete in an evolutionary sense. It's been beaten. Sure it's still utilized, but that does not make it correct, trustworthy, realistic, or dependable. EDIT: something I think every human can attest to who has experienced much emotion, big or small.

In fact---pretty sure most humans will agree with me that emotions typically do nothing but deceive you. Especially the fleeting ones.

And as for your happiness statement, happiness is a manifestation of these higher levels of cognition as well. The emotion YOU'RE eluding to is contentment. It's very different from genuine, human happiness.

Genuine human happiness requires senses of accomplishment, worth, self, and bunches other reflections of higher level thinking. The same way your driving example requires the neocortex as well. This feeling is not possible without the neocortex, which omits it from my definition of ''emotion/feeling" I was referencing in my post.

After-all, it's only the limbic system that causes the negative emotions like stress when your higher-self realizes it can't do things like pay your bills :p

EDIT: The kicker is....stress solves NOTHING. Or anger, or basically any emotion. The neocortex...solves every single problem. Ever in the history of humanity.
 

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I don't believe for a minute what is said about our feelings.
We have them, maybe even more than over types.

The only thing is: I thought about them. A lot.
The good news about this is that I didn't fall into the trap of feeling instead of thinking, that is, acting on the basis of what I feel.
Many people behave like this and most of the time the outcome isn't good.
So the point isn't that I'm afraid of my "immature" feelings. I just figured out that they are the achilles' heel of every person, if not being controlled by ratio.

The downside of me thinking about my feelings is that I maybe overdid it. I never developed any tools to express them. They are strictly an internal thing.
My friends often told me things like "You react like a stone when you see me" but after a while they accepted when I told them "No, I am happy to see you, I just don't show."
 

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I don't enjoy being an asshole for the sake of it, although I get that way more easily than I realize sometimes.

I am critical of people but I do hold a select few in high esteem, sometimes they do something I think is ridiculous or "weak" and I start to flip that switch that makes people not exist anymore, but I'm really trying to refrain from doing this as quickly.

Basically I can be and am very outwardly supportive to people who I think are worth it, I also don't mind getting to know others and give many people a chance but will decide that someone is not worth it if they truly aren't.
 

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I don't believe for a minute what is said about our feelings.
We have them, maybe even more than over types.

The only thing is: I thought about them. A lot.
The good news about this is that I didn't fall into the trap of feeling instead of thinking, that is, acting on the basis of what I feel.
Many people behave like this and most of the time the outcome isn't good.
So the point isn't that I'm afraid of my "immature" feelings. I just figured out that they are the achilles' heel of every person, if not being controlled by ratio.

The downside of me thinking about my feelings is that I maybe overdid it. I never developed any tools to express them. They are strictly an internal thing.
Hit the nail on the head, right there.

Danke
 

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I believe your logic is flawed because whether you like it or not happiness is an emotion and if you're not happy what is the point in living. Other emotions like fear serve a very important survival aspect. Why won't you drive down the freeway blindfolded at 200mph sounds fun right? Because you're afraid of doing that. Love has also played a pivotal role in the continuation of the species. Im not saying that without love we'd go the way of the dinosaur but what I am saying is that love certainly helps because its a reaction to chemicals actually. Anger is also useful because it can motivate you to do something or it can let other people know not to do something to you again. If someone always did bad things to you and you never got angry you'd be a doormat dude, in a world without emotions if someone did something wrong they would keep doing it wrong or keep doing bad things to some other person because there is no one there to get frustrated with them no one there to rain wrath down upon their day. Which goes back to fear, people are afraid of punishment and simply yelling at someone is often a punishment in itself. Back in a time where there were no laws angering someone could mean death which is certainly bad for survival. So these two are actually pretty important. A world without emotions would be a world without good music because all music is emotional even if its death metal, a world without good movies because all movies are intended to invoke some kind of emotional response from the viewer be it excitement or romance, just a plain boring world man without much to enjoy because going back to happiness. If you're not happy doing anything whats the point of doing in? If sitting on your ass and doing derives the same amount of happiness as learning to play guitar, learning science and math, learning how to build something or make something, whats the point in doing it at all if you won't get paid for it? The world would just be a sad boring world where everyone is pretty much cookie cutter and the same because no one wants to do anything. They don't want to listen to music, they don't want to go out for drinks, they don't want to watch a movie, they don't want to learn anything, hell they may not even want to have sex. Emotions are more than just bubbly feelings and butterflies in your stomach. They encompass a whole range of things including: Happy, sad, angry, afraid, shocked, disgusted, love, aroused, surprised, hate, excited, confused, enthusiastic, annoyed, bored, regretful, optimistic, pessimistic, sarcastic, bashful, skeptical, and many many others. Even apathy itself could be considered an emotional state. And some of these are very important for communication. Since body language, facial expressions and tone of voice are often more important in communicating that what is actually said all of which are derived from emotions. That is why your logic is flawed my friend.
Are you sure your a T and not an F?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Are you sure your a T and not an F?
Pretty damn sure. F's base their decisions on feelings they do what they feel rarely do I do what I feel and everyone that knows me knows I'm really logical in the way I approach things. Even the advice I give to people for emotional issues is based in logic. Besides the fact every test I've taken spits out the same result and sometimes I change the answers of questions that could go either way for me and I always get the same result. INTP. I've actually taken the test so many times I try to make it a game, I try to beat the test and get a different result while at the same time being honest about what it is I do. So yeah I'm pretty sure.

I just see a logical reason for emotions. Stated above, communication is the big one. But I'm also a creative person, I'm a musician so I realize emotion is necessary to be expressive in music. I just don't buy @Kevinaswell's definition of emotion where if it comes from the neocortex its not emotion. My definition is just different. To me an emotion is a chemical response in the brain to a stimuli where the response is felt as opposed to a conscious thought. You can be blissfully happy and not know why, or sad and not know why. Often when you feel happy or sad or angry for example you don't think in your head "Oh I'm happy!" You just feel happy, these are different than thoughts where you might think, "Where did I put my phone?" The thought itself can be a stimuli, you can be sad or mad that you didn't find your phone but you don't think in your head "I'm sad." and thats as far as it goes, you feel it. To me thats emotion. See what I'm getting at?

I don't think emotions should be used as your intellect now, I think things should be thought out instead of basing things on how you feel. I think one should be rational and logical about their approach, I dislike a person who lacks any sense of rationality greatly but at the same time I think that emotion can be a valuable input as well in certain situations. I'll give you an example. If you know that you mom gets upset when you drink alcohol around her but you really like to drink beers because you're a beer connoisseur you may think, "Maybe I shouldn't drink in the company of my mom because she gets upset." You're making a decision based on how you know someone else feels, that doesn't make you an F, it just makes you not an asshole. Because if you never considered people's feelings ever in decision making you wouldn't care if your mom got upset at your beer drinking ways in her company and that kind of makes you a selfish asshole. (sorry I can't think of a better example than this right now but I hope you understand what I'm getting at) So I think emotions have some merit is what I'm saying.
 

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I believe your logic is flawed because whether you like it or not happiness is an emotion and if you're not happy what is the point in living. Other emotions like fear serve a very important survival aspect. Why won't you drive down the freeway blindfolded at 200mph sounds fun right? Because you're afraid of doing that. Love has also played a pivotal role in the continuation of the species. Im not saying that without love we'd go the way of the dinosaur but what I am saying is that love certainly helps because its a reaction to chemicals actually. Anger is also useful because it can motivate you to do something or it can let other people know not to do something to you again. If someone always did bad things to you and you never got angry you'd be a doormat dude, in a world without emotions if someone did something wrong they would keep doing it wrong or keep doing bad things to some other person because there is no one there to get frustrated with them no one there to rain wrath down upon their day. Which goes back to fear, people are afraid of punishment and simply yelling at someone is often a punishment in itself. Back in a time where there were no laws angering someone could mean death which is certainly bad for survival. So these two are actually pretty important. A world without emotions would be a world without good music because all music is emotional even if its death metal, a world without good movies because all movies are intended to invoke some kind of emotional response from the viewer be it excitement or romance, just a plain boring world man without much to enjoy because going back to happiness. If you're not happy doing anything whats the point of doing in? If sitting on your ass and doing derives the same amount of happiness as learning to play guitar, learning science and math, learning how to build something or make something, whats the point in doing it at all if you won't get paid for it? The world would just be a sad boring world where everyone is pretty much cookie cutter and the same because no one wants to do anything. They don't want to listen to music, they don't want to go out for drinks, they don't want to watch a movie, they don't want to learn anything, hell they may not even want to have sex. Emotions are more than just bubbly feelings and butterflies in your stomach. They encompass a whole range of things including: Happy, sad, angry, afraid, shocked, disgusted, love, aroused, surprised, hate, excited, confused, enthusiastic, annoyed, bored, regretful, optimistic, pessimistic, sarcastic, bashful, skeptical, and many many others. Even apathy itself could be considered an emotional state. And some of these are very important for communication. Since body language, facial expressions and tone of voice are often more important in communicating that what is actually said all of which are derived from emotions. That is why your logic is flawed my friend.
your logic is flawed because you're looking at it from YOUR point of view. if no one had emotions (and im not argueing either way here, just stating) then it wouldnt be boring since you have no emotions. you're looking at it from your point of view, from a person who has emotions
 
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I believe your logic is flawed because whether you like it or not happiness is an emotion and if you're not happy what is the point in living. Other emotions like fear serve a very important survival aspect. Why won't you drive down the freeway blindfolded at 200mph sounds fun right? Because you're afraid of doing that. Love has also played a pivotal role in the continuation of the species. Im not saying that without love we'd go the way of the dinosaur but what I am saying is that love certainly helps because its a reaction to chemicals actually. Anger is also useful because it can motivate you to do something or it can let other people know not to do something to you again. If someone always did bad things to you and you never got angry you'd be a doormat dude, in a world without emotions if someone did something wrong they would keep doing it wrong or keep doing bad things to some other person because there is no one there to get frustrated with them no one there to rain wrath down upon their day. Which goes back to fear, people are afraid of punishment and simply yelling at someone is often a punishment in itself. Back in a time where there were no laws angering someone could mean death which is certainly bad for survival. So these two are actually pretty important. A world without emotions would be a world without good music because all music is emotional even if its death metal, a world without good movies because all movies are intended to invoke some kind of emotional response from the viewer be it excitement or romance, just a plain boring world man without much to enjoy because going back to happiness. If you're not happy doing anything whats the point of doing in? If sitting on your ass and doing derives the same amount of happiness as learning to play guitar, learning science and math, learning how to build something or make something, whats the point in doing it at all if you won't get paid for it? The world would just be a sad boring world where everyone is pretty much cookie cutter and the same because no one wants to do anything. They don't want to listen to music, they don't want to go out for drinks, they don't want to watch a movie, they don't want to learn anything, hell they may not even want to have sex. Emotions are more than just bubbly feelings and butterflies in your stomach. They encompass a whole range of things including: Happy, sad, angry, afraid, shocked, disgusted, love, aroused, surprised, hate, excited, confused, enthusiastic, annoyed, bored, regretful, optimistic, pessimistic, sarcastic, bashful, skeptical, and many many others. Even apathy itself could be considered an emotional state. And some of these are very important for communication. Since body language, facial expressions and tone of voice are often more important in communicating that what is actually said all of which are derived from emotions. That is why your logic is flawed my friend.
Pretty damn sure. F's base their decisions on feelings they do what they feel rarely do I do what I feel and everyone that knows me knows I'm really logical in the way I approach things. Even the advice I give to people for emotional issues is based in logic. Besides the fact every test I've taken spits out the same result and sometimes I change the answers of questions that could go either way for me and I always get the same result. INTP. I've actually taken the test so many times I try to make it a game, I try to beat the test and get a different result while at the same time being honest about what it is I do. So yeah I'm pretty sure.

I just see a logical reason for emotions. Stated above, communication is the big one. But I'm also a creative person, I'm a musician so I realize emotion is necessary to be expressive in music. I just don't buy @Kevinaswell's definition of emotion where if it comes from the neocortex its not emotion. My definition is just different. To me an emotion is a chemical response in the brain to a stimuli where the response is felt as opposed to a conscious thought. You can be blissfully happy and not know why, or sad and not know why. Often when you feel happy or sad or angry for example you don't think in your head "Oh I'm happy!" You just feel happy, these are different than thoughts where you might think, "Where did I put my phone?" The thought itself can be a stimuli, you can be sad or mad that you didn't find your phone but you don't think in your head "I'm sad." and thats as far as it goes, you feel it. To me thats emotion. See what I'm getting at?

I don't think emotions should be used as your intellect now, I think things should be thought out instead of basing things on how you feel. I think one should be rational and logical about their approach, I dislike a person who lacks any sense of rationality greatly but at the same time I think that emotion can be a valuable input as well in certain situations. I'll give you an example. If you know that you mom gets upset when you drink alcohol around her but you really like to drink beers because you're a beer connoisseur you may think, "Maybe I shouldn't drink in the company of my mom because she gets upset." You're making a decision based on how you know someone else feels, that doesn't make you an F, it just makes you not an asshole. Because if you never considered people's feelings ever in decision making you wouldn't care if your mom got upset at your beer drinking ways in her company and that kind of makes you a selfish asshole. (sorry I can't think of a better example than this right now but I hope you understand what I'm getting at) So I think emotions have some merit is what I'm saying.
Somebody find @qingdom and have him give homeslice a lesson in being succinct. And perhaps about the dreaded walls.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
your logic is flawed because you're looking at it from YOUR point of view. if no one had emotions (and im not argueing either way here, just stating) then it wouldnt be boring since you have no emotions. you're looking at it from your point of view, from a person who has emotions
I disagree. In a world where no one is excited, amused, or curious about anything which in my book are emotions is a very boring world indeed. Don't learn a thing about science or psychology or MBTI because curiosity and amusement doesn't exist :) then as I stated in that post even apathy could be considered emotion. If this is true this brings up a philosophical question, in a world without emotion do people exist? A world without people is truly a boring world indeed, or not...since boredom doesn't exist either O_O
 

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I disagree. In a world where no one is excited, amused, or curious about anything which in my book are emotions is a very boring world indeed.
but in this world boredom wouldnt exist either.
 

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The reason why we still need emotions is because our brains are not powerful enough to compute the necessary decision-making steps behind complex situations.

For instance, there is a perfectly valid reason for eating, not crashing your car, etc. etc. But while in cases like these the logical steps are few and straightforward, in more complex situations the logic behind the decision can get absolutely overwhelming. That's why we guide ourselves by our feelings in some decisions, it's merely a shortcut we take due to our brain's limited processing power.

Also I would like to preemptively answer the question "If we only need emotions for complex decisions our brains can't handle why do we sometimes use them for simpler decisions?". Well we may use emotions for unnecessary situations but we do that because they're there in the first place. Why do we use them? Because maybe sometimes we just can't be bothered to think something through, and that is a purely emotional response. Why are they there in the first place? Because of the situations where they are actually necessary.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
i did. so how can you still disagree?
For the sake of a debate :laughing:. I think you're missing the crux of what I am saying though and that is emotion is an important part of life, because its responsible for us learning ultimately which is something INTPs value. If we were all robots we wouldn't care about any of that because last I checked robots don't care about learning they don't have a position on it. They aren't even apathetic towards it because apathy implies sentience. This has become wildly off topic but at least its interesting. :happy:
 

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For the sake of a debate :laughing:. I think you're missing the crux of what I am saying though and that is emotion is an important part of life, because its responsible for us learning ultimately which is something INTPs value. If we were all robots we wouldn't care about any of that because last I checked robots don't care about learning they don't have a position on it. They aren't even apathetic towards it because apathy implies sentience. This has become wildly off topic but at least its interesting. :happy:
i dont miss your point. like i said, i was just pointing out your flawed logic from your post that i quoted.

you are right though, emotions are important. because wether they are bad or out dated 'hardware', fact is we have them. and so we have to deal them.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Oh and just to be that guy because I can. Emotions wouldn't be outdated hardware, they'd be outdated software since emotion is not something like an arm or a liver :laughing:
 
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