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Discussion Starter #1
don't know if this has been already discussed...

one common stereotype you hear frequently in this community is that Ni doms, due to their alleged rarity in population, grow up feeling like some kind of outcasts. Since very few people seem to understand or at least avoid "freaking out" when interacting with their intuitions, which supposedly constitute that little part of the inner world that Ni doms manage sometimes to exhibit in a form understandable by other people, they start feeling that their way of thinking is uncommon and somewhat "alien". At least, this is what you read about INxJs around forums etc., but those are the places where majestic bullshits are generated, starting from the "sensors aren't capable of imagining" bias, so all this might be completely untrue. However, to me it doesn't seem so unlikely, even if the one who says it is immature and applies mbti in a wrong way. I mean, even i have experienced something similar, and Ne is supposed to be much more common than Ni. And here we link up with the second part of the problem...

Among the stereotypes (so, let's forget about the fact that anybody can feel like an alien independently from their functions), it's said that this predisposition is common not only among Ni doms, but also Fi doms; although, there is a difference between the ways these two categories experience it. Simplifying, one would say that Ni doms feel like this because they're actually rare and "weird", while Fi doms feel they are weird and special because "Fi just works in this way". In my experience, i would say that Fi enhanced the sensation of being weird that came from my Ne way of interacting with others: as someone incapable of mingling into small talk (not that there's something wrong in small talk, it's just that i feel uneasy with it, just like many other INFPs. This is one of the most true stereotypes in my experience), i would say something quirky just because in that particolar situation i was forced to say something, get looked at as if i was some shellfish asking if i could marry somebody's daughter, and later my Fi would make me feel like i was the strangest being on earth... because, again, Fi can't help but do this, even if Fi doms are literally everywhere (at least in my experience).

Of course, everyone can tell their impressions, but i'm particularly interested in what INxJs and IxFPs have to say about all this. I'd like to know what their experiences were like, if they ever even begin to feel like aliens or if they believe it's all bullshit and why. As always, sorry for my english (these sorrys are beginning to feel cringy), and... let me know what you think
 

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It is complicated, because I don't know how an alien would feel, if they existed, so I can't tell you whether I feel or felt like one. With that said, I never fit in any groups, the perception that I am "the other one", someone different from the rest of the group, a misfit, always comes to me, sooner or later. Be it in "real life" groups or in internet ones. It makes life a rather lonely journey at times.

Cognitive functions-wise, I think that is more likely to happen to Ti users, aside from Ni users, than Fi ones. There is the stereotype that Fi-doms are like aliens on Earth but it seems to relate to the perception of others regarding Fi-doms, rather than the perception of Fi-doms regarding themselves. Ti-doms, based on relates and on simply studying the theory, I can imagine, or try to, how "off" (some?) Ti-doms might feel compared to others.

For reference, I am probably a Ni-dom, though I haven't dismissed Si yet.
 

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I had a theory that feelings of alienation are related to our own (negative) experiences with our inferior functions, seeing those functions being well-adapted and positive in others and sensing the disconnect there. And that is applicable to all types.
 

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Anyone can feel alien at times, if they don't feel like other people around them are "like" them and do not accept their difference. But some people accept each other's differences, and in fact embrace those differences, or find other people like them who are also weird, and it becomes less of a "I feel like an alien" thing and more like "yay we're all weird, let's be weird together!" Obviously that's extremely oversimplified, and I definitely relate to feeling like an alien, partially because Fi can appear so subjective to other people, often times being dismissed. But I've found that sometimes it is my fault for feeling that way, I set myself up to feel like an alien. I feel like I both relate to people and don't relate to them at all at the same time, it's strange. But I've learned to just go with it, because there are seven billion people on the planet, and we all have our own internal complex worlds that cannot be reached by other people, yet at the same time, that is what makes us the same. Feeling like an alien is both a choice, and a state of mind that is sometimes inevitable.
 
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don't know if this has been already discussed...

one common stereotype you hear frequently in this community is that Ni doms, due to their alleged rarity in population, grow up feeling like some kind of outcasts. Since very few people seem to understand or at least avoid "freaking out" when interacting with their intuitions, which supposedly constitute that little part of the inner world that Ni doms manage sometimes to exhibit in a form understandable by other people, they start feeling that their way of thinking is uncommon and somewhat "alien". At least, this is what you read about INxJs around forums etc., but those are the places where majestic bullshits are generated, starting from the "sensors aren't capable of imagining" bias, so all this might be completely untrue. However, to me it doesn't seem so unlikely, even if the one who says it is immature and applies mbti in a wrong way. I mean, even i have experienced something similar, and Ne is supposed to be much more common than Ni. And here we link up with the second part of the problem...

Among the stereotypes (so, let's forget about the fact that anybody can feel like an alien independently from their functions), it's said that this predisposition is common not only among Ni doms, but also Fi doms; although, there is a difference between the ways these two categories experience it. Simplifying, one would say that Ni doms feel like this because they're actually rare and "weird", while Fi doms feel they are weird and special because "Fi just works in this way". In my experience, i would say that Fi enhanced the sensation of being weird that came from my Ne way of interacting with others: as someone incapable of mingling into small talk (not that there's something wrong in small talk, it's just that i feel uneasy with it, just like many other INFPs. This is one of the most true stereotypes in my experience), i would say something quirky just because in that particolar situation i was forced to say something, get looked at as if i was some shellfish asking if i could marry somebody's daughter, and later my Fi would make me feel like i was the strangest being on earth... because, again, Fi can't help but do this, even if Fi doms are literally everywhere (at least in my experience).

Of course, everyone can tell their impressions, but i'm particularly interested in what INxJs and IxFPs have to say about all this. I'd like to know what their experiences were like, if they ever even begin to feel like aliens or if they believe it's all bullshit and why. As always, sorry for my english (these sorrys are beginning to feel cringy), and... let me know what you think
You have it completely reversed. I'm an INTJ but I never thought I was weird. I thought the rest of the world was just stupid and blind. I still think many people are blind and aren't aware of much, but I don't think they´re stupid anymore. I know there are different types of personalities and that each personality type has it's advantages and disadvantages. And I'm fully aware that there are some people who are way more aware of things than I am.

You seem to assume that T's experience the world just like F's,.... since you´re asking how I feel about being different. But I don't feel much about being different. It's just a fact, which is mostly the result of just being an Introvert. Once people get to know me, I'm not so different anymore. Just takes a while to get to know me. Or the other way around: It takes a while before I know someone well enough to really talk to them. (in stead of just the basic BS to not be unpolite.)
 

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FEELing like an "alien": Ni and Fi

don't know if this has been already discussed...

one common stereotype you hear frequently in this community is that Ni doms, due to their alleged rarity in population, grow up feeling like some kind of outcasts. Since very few people seem to understand or at least avoid "freaking out" when interacting with their intuitions, which supposedly constitute that little part of the inner world that Ni doms manage sometimes to exhibit in a form understandable by other people, they start feeling that their way of thinking is uncommon and somewhat "alien". At least, this is what you read about INxJs around forums etc., but those are the places where majestic bullshits are generated, starting from the "sensors aren't capable of imagining" bias, so all this might be completely untrue. However, to me it doesn't seem so unlikely, even if the one who says it is immature and applies mbti in a wrong way. I mean, even i have experienced something similar, and Ne is supposed to be much more common than Ni. And here we link up with the second part of the problem...

Among the stereotypes (so, let's forget about the fact that anybody can feel like an alien independently from their functions), it's said that this predisposition is common not only among Ni doms, but also Fi doms; although, there is a difference between the ways these two categories experience it. Simplifying, one would say that Ni doms feel like this because they're actually rare and "weird", while Fi doms feel they are weird and special because "Fi just works in this way". In my experience, i would say that Fi enhanced the sensation of being weird that came from my Ne way of interacting with others: as someone incapable of mingling into small talk (not that there's something wrong in small talk, it's just that i feel uneasy with it, just like many other INFPs. This is one of the most true stereotypes in my experience), i would say something quirky just because in that particolar situation i was forced to say something, get looked at as if i was some shellfish asking if i could marry somebody's daughter, and later my Fi would make me feel like i was the strangest being on earth... because, again, Fi can't help but do this, even if Fi doms are literally everywhere (at least in my experience).

Of course, everyone can tell their impressions, but i'm particularly interested in what INxJs and IxFPs have to say about all this. I'd like to know what their experiences were like, if they ever even begin to feel like aliens or if they believe it's all bullshit and why. As always, sorry for my english (these sorrys are beginning to feel cringy), and... let me know what you think
Just from reading the forums, INFXs can be detached from practical mundane reality, which can make them feel “alien”. ENxPs are the masters of abstraction, but INFXs can actually reside in feelings & abstraction permanently.
 

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Fi can't help but do this, even if Fi doms are literally everywhere
Really? Perhaps I should leave the house more often.

The thing with INFPs is they love to be different. They love to be unique and authentic, and won't live a day without reassuring themselves in some way that they are not like everybody else. I think it's that drive for authenticity that separates them from most people, though: if they find a personality quirk within themselves, that's their strength in focus.

Do I feel alien? Not when I'm alone. I do have trouble fitting in and mingling with others of the same species. If anybody is making me feel alien, though, it's me. I'm doing it all to myself: nobody else is to blame. If the trend is to do one thing, I will do the opposite. In terms of fashion, that can be troubling for a male, because all their clothes are virtually the same design, making it difficult to find something that every other guy isn't already wearing.

I cannot imagine an Fi-dom being good at small talk. They are the type of people who talk of one thing, but think of something complete different. It's like they begin their stories with gusto, but finish them in their head, thus leaving the listener stranded on a cliff. As they're talking, they might hit a point that could be described as a forked path, and think "I wonder what would have happened if the other option was taken", so as they talk, they speak what really happened, but internally imagine an alternative, and, forgetting they mentally took a different path, unconsciously incorporate that fantasy into reality. More than half the time, nobody knows what an INFP is talking about
 

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The thing with INFPs is they love to be different. They love to be unique and authentic, and won't live a day without reassuring themselves in some way that they are not like everybody else.
you've give me great ideas about how to depress my INFP enemies. (y)

opposite. In terms of fashion, that can be troubling for a male, because all their clothes are virtually the same design, making it difficult to find something that every other guy isn't already wearing.
lol... i forgot people actually put thought into how they look.


I cannot imagine an Fi-dom being good at small talk. They are the type of people who talk of one thing, but think of something complete different. It's like they begin their stories with gusto, but finish them in their head, thus leaving the listener stranded on a cliff. As they're talking, they might hit a point that could be described as a forked path, and think "I wonder what would have happened if the other option was taken", so as they talk, they speak what really happened, but internally imagine an alternative, and, forgetting they mentally took a different path, unconsciously incorporate that fantasy into reality. More than half the time, nobody knows what an INFP is talking about
and yet it doesn't stop them trying, and always sounding like they know they're right.
 

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you've give me great ideas about how to depress my INFP enemies. (y)

lol... i forgot people actually put thought into how they look.

and yet it doesn't stop them trying, and always sounding like they know they're right.
Sounds like an INFP hurt your mushy feelings.
 

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oh hell no... I try and avoid all F's equally except for ISFJ's as they make such good slaves I married one ;)
My besty is a lovely ISFJ, too, though I understand avoiding feelers (even if I don't do that).
 

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I think all introverts may feel like aliens lol
oh but especially INFJ's... they're only one conspiracy theory away from finding out we're all aliens... hatched from hyper dimensional space eggs... captured by the government which is controlled by black goo. If you have those thoughts... how can you not feel like an alien every now and then.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
i think most of you took way too seriously the whole "alien" metaphor. Maybe i haven't been enough explicative, but it was meant in some sort of provocative way, since you know, all those people who contributed spreading all mbti stereotypes and who feel they're special due to their type talk like that. You could ask me, "why take them seriously?", but that's not what i'm doing. I was just trying to understand how much truth lied in that stereotype, and i was particularly interested since in my understanding the feeling i tried to describe is almost "structural" for Fi. I'm sorry if i wasn't enough intellegible.
Obviously everyone could experience the same, i even stated it in my original post. I was just curios about personal experience of Ni and Fi doms, because i feel like i could empathize more easily with their feelings of alienation and because in the case of Fi i wanted to see if in their opinion the mechanism of their own function has had any influence on all that matter. Of course you can share your experience even if you're Ti or Si or Se or whatever, i only said i was eager to hear from Ni and Fi. Please don't fixate on a single statement or line of interpetration.
 

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i think most of you took way too seriously the whole "alien" metaphor. Maybe i haven't been enough explicative, but it was meant in some sort of provocative way, since you know, all those people who contributed spreading all mbti stereotypes and who feel they're special due to their type talk like that. You could ask me, "why take them seriously?", but that's not what i'm doing. I was just trying to understand how much truth lied in that stereotype, and i was particularly interested since in my understanding the feeling i tried to describe is almost "structural" for Fi. I'm sorry if i wasn't enough intellegible.
Obviously everyone could experience the same, i even stated it in my original post. I was just curios about personal experience of Ni and Fi doms, because i feel like i could empathize more easily with their feelings of alienation and because in the case of Fi i wanted to see if in their opinion the mechanism of their own function has had any influence on all that matter. Of course you can share your experience even if you're Ti or Si or Se or whatever, i only said i was eager to hear from Ni and Fi. Please don't fixate on a single statement or line of interpetration.
I think everybody knows exactly what you mean and are just enjoying being hyperbolic.

INTP's are likely to feel just as alienated in society as anybody I can tell you. I'm not sure if there is anybody actually further away from naturally conforming to standardised social norms than INTP. Although we have the lowest care factor, it's still bound to be overwhelming at some point.
 

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I had a theory that feelings of alienation are related to our own (negative) experiences with our inferior functions, seeing those functions being well-adapted and positive in others and sensing the disconnect there. And that is applicable to all types.
Quoting for (my subjective view of what probably is the) truth. It would make sense, if you think about it, that when we see the process that we're most uncomfortable with being used with ease, that we would begin to question our self worth and standing within the world around us. You know when I feel different? When I'm watching someone react to the moment, or engage in something that takes innate physical mastery and concentration, or show a natural comfort with the physical world around them. Basically, anything that reinforces to me how much of my existence takes place not by interacting with my environment, but within the confines of my own mind. It makes me jealous, it makes me sad, it makes me angry, it makes me question my sense of self. I suppose that could be distilled down into some form of a definition of alienation.
 

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I think feeling like an alien is a feeling which is much more common in type 4's because it tends to be a preoccupation of that type. There are just a lot of type 4 INFJ's (especially on this forum) so you'll find this trend or theme come up a lot.

As for me, I'm not a core 4 nor do I even have it in my tri-type so it's never really been a fixation for me. I actually grew up having the opposite experience. I believed I fit in because I had an intense desire to belong. And in some cases, I probably did belong and fit in. In other cases, I probably just imagined I had more common ground with the person that I really did. I realized I held onto these illusions in some of my friendships later on and it caused me to realize we were not really as close as I thought we were. Since I'm able to find common ground with almost anyone (we're all human, after all) - it's not hard for me to do this which is why I've realized I have to be more careful about this and not try to force things when I know deep down, we're not compatible or really as alike as I had imagined. I want to bond with others but there's no point if it's rooted in imagined commonalities. Of course our differences are beautiful too but usually when you bond with another person (at least for me) it's more so rooted in our shared values and interests. However, these also evolve over time as my values change and my interests widen when I learn and discover more from others. Anyways, hopefully that made some sort of sense.
 
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It is complicated, because I don't know how an alien would feel, if they existed, so I can't tell you whether I feel or felt like one. With that said, I never fit in any groups, the perception that I am "the other one", someone different from the rest of the group, a misfit, always comes to me, sooner or later. Be it in "real life" groups or in internet ones. It makes life a rather lonely journey at times.

Cognitive functions-wise, I think that is more likely to happen to Ti users, aside from Ni users, than Fi ones. There is the stereotype that Fi-doms are like aliens on Earth but it seems to relate to the perception of others regarding Fi-doms, rather than the perception of Fi-doms regarding themselves. Ti-doms, based on relates and on simply studying the theory, I can imagine, or try to, how "off" (some?) Ti-doms might feel compared to others.

For reference, I am probably a Ni-dom, though I haven't dismissed Si yet.
The word Alien does not necessarily imply an Alien as an extraterrestrial or the creature in Ridley Scott's Alien -- it more often means foreigner, different, unlike the others.

With that out of the way, I have always felt alienated from the first time that I became aware of myself, however, the feeling greatly intensified just before and during high school; the feeling was that I had been born in the completely wrong place and that I had to escape from there if I wanted to keep my sanity.

What first happened was that I voluntarily isolated myself and read a lot of philosophy and politics, which made me realize that not only almost every single thing that I appreciated and aspired to do/be/experience was foreigner, but that unless I left that place, the certainty of not being able to accomplish my goals would only increase my misery with time.

Finally at 20, I actually moved (legally) to the United States and became an actual alien/foreigner and paradoxically it felt much better. Although some of the mentality and culture is quite different from how I am and feel, it is still closer than at the Old Country and here you get to be more of the author of your own destiny, so although I am still somewhat of a weirdo or outcast, I now feel fully confident of myself and have the freedom to achieve and be whatever I want within limit.
 

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i think most of you took way too seriously the whole "alien" metaphor. Maybe i haven't been enough explicative, but it was meant in some sort of provocative way, since you know, all those people who contributed spreading all mbti stereotypes and who feel they're special due to their type talk like that. You could ask me, "why take them seriously?", but that's not what i'm doing. I was just trying to understand how much truth lied in that stereotype, and i was particularly interested since in my understanding the feeling i tried to describe is almost "structural" for Fi. I'm sorry if i wasn't enough intellegible.
Obviously everyone could experience the same, i even stated it in my original post. I was just curios about personal experience of Ni and Fi doms, because i feel like i could empathize more easily with their feelings of alienation and because in the case of Fi i wanted to see if in their opinion the mechanism of their own function has had any influence on all that matter. Of course you can share your experience even if you're Ti or Si or Se or whatever, i only said i was eager to hear from Ni and Fi. Please don't fixate on a single statement or line of interpetration.
Well, the reason why stereotypes usually emerge is because they have at least some validity; our brain is made to separate things into categories, so we do not have to start from scratch every time that we meet a new situation or person.

Problems emerge when we can only see in stereotypes and cannot adapt or understand people, places and situations which defy the stereotypes or fail to treat people as individuals when we have to deal with them.
 

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This thread seems like it belongs in, the OP is ranting and raving all thru the original post and response's instead of actually making any logical sense thus making this more of a ------> http://personalitycafe.com/venting/




 
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