[Wayfarer]

I've always felt out of place in the world, in society, but haven't been able to quite express or put my finger on why.

For example, in high school, I saw myself as someone who was physically present, who hung out and interacted with the other kids at school, but that no one would miss, nor remember after I was gone (aside from my group of 4-5 friends). It also doesn't help that I was the only person from my graduating class going to the particular university I chose.

The closest analogy I can think of is somewhat of a bad example, because it puts me down and assumes a better experience without me around. Also, apologies if the situation doesn't apply to you - I'm making a generalization from my own experiences in an attempt to better explain myself.

High School Analogy:
I would harken my presence in high school to advertisements on television. You notice them when they're there, but if you watch the same show without ads, you don't miss them or notice their absence. That's more or less how I felt, and in some sense, still feel with regards to my social presence - and yes, sometimes, but not always in a negative light.

I've noticed that I'm different than "normal", with normal being defined by our ESTJ society, that places emphasis on being an ESTJ as a male - being social; taking action and doing things, rather than overthinking; highly sensory, focusing on one's immediate surroundings, and even seeking material goods and/or power.

I just don't dig it, and thanks to the exploring I have done thus far, I can at least explain my differences in terms of the MBTI / cognitive functions, the enneagram, and type stackings.

Let's review the checklist:

Me: Male INFP
Societal Norm: Male ESTJ

Sooo...for starters, I'm different than what society typically portrays as male role-models in...yes, that's right, all four axis. So already, based on my MBTI type, I'm in complete opposition to what we're told the "norm" is for men in society.

Enneagram: Type 5w6
Stacking: Sp/sx

I have no idea what the norms are with regards to the enneagram, nor for stackings, but what I do feel here is the anti-social nature of these types in a social world.

Which instinct is my stacking lacking (heh, unintentional rhyme)? Social.

Type 5s, from my limited understanding, are typically distant, aloof, and generally not social.

No wonder I generally feel misunderstood and alone. Also makes me wonder if these differences - or my perception of being different, like a lone alien camouflaged as a human, "knowing" that you're the only one of your kind in your surroundings - reinforce my being a Type 5, because it's easier for me to step back and be an observer when I notice how different I am relative to hoi polloi.

What this all boils down to is that I really want to find my personal niche within the world. For me, this includes forming deep personal connections with other people, preferably in person, although getting to a point where I feel comfortable doing that feels like having to climb my own uncharted Mount Everest. In terms of dating, it really doesn't help that men are expected to be the ones to "take the plunge" and make the first move (damn social conventions! ).

I'm familiar with the saying "the greater the challenge, the greater the reward", but damn if it doesn't seem insurmountable...

Also, I'm not depressed about any of this - it's more of an annoyance. These are my observations "as is", albeit coloured with my feelings about them - perhaps that's the seemingly contradictory nature of a Type 5 Feeler.

 

[Kozy]

"Almost always, the creative dedicated minority has made the world better." -Martin Luther King

The farther you deviate from what is considered normal, the more unique you are, and therefore the more novel and qunique ideas or contributions you can generate for society. You are highly valuable, but the price you pay for this is a very different life from what many others have, with different hardships that are additionally harder because no one you know and few people you meet even on the internet can relate to them. Whether you believe in some divine origin, or evolutionary creation- you are born going against the grain because this is how progress is made. Take solace in your specialness and inability to fit in, is an indication of your value to the world.

 

[sleepyhead]

For what it's worth, most of what you describe sound like typical 5 feelings, no matter the stacking or wings. I don't deal much with MBTI so I'll leave that part alone.

Have you checked out some of these threads? They may strike a chord, in terms of how some of us other 5's have experienced our lives thus far:
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-forum-investigator/88289-friends.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-forum-investigator/91238-what-causes-5s-withdraw.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-forum-investigator/93920-ostracism-type-fives.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-forum-investigator/96788-do-you-feel-human.html

Feeling "outside" is pretty common for 5's. Your high school description mirrors mine. People always seemed to know who I was, but I was definitely a wallflower. I had my few friends but we didn't take classes together, so I generally kept completely to myself in class I try to challenge myself by pushing my comfort with my social boundaries, but I'm also at a place where I'm okay accepting that I only have a few close friends, and while i get along with people well in general, I don't really want anymore of them in my life in a really personal way. As for dating, personally I found online was the way to go - I met my boyfriend online 4 years ago and it was a good fit - but you usually have to be very very patient before someone worth while comes along.

I also wanted to add that although it's true you don't strike me as a particular SOCIAL type 5, being a social 5 doesn't always mean you're a more social person. SO is also third in my stacking and I still relate to parts of it, but I have a very strong SX so I'm often very interested in having close, personal bonds with people rather than relating through my expertise. I'm one of those 5's who lives with my partner and have no qualms about it but we're very respectful of each other and he knows about the Enneagram so its been helpful in our trouble spots. The way you write about wanting to find a niche and form personal connections makes me wonder if you've considered SX first - I used to think I was SP/SX but after getting more in depth in the variant descriptions its obvious that although I can look like an SP first, I'm sure I'm SX. But this is the SOCIAL description without stacking:

The Specialist. In the average range, Scoial Fives engage with others and find a social niche for themselves through their knowledge and skill. They like to see themselves as Masters of Wisdom and want to become indispensable through their particular field of expertise (the only person in the office who knows hot to fix the computer, for example). The most intellectual type of Five, Social Fives are often drawn to academics, science, and other forms of guruhood. They play the social role of the shaman, the wise person who lives at the edge of the tribe and brings back secret knowledge. Social Fives like to talk about weighty topics and complex theories, but they are generally uninterested in social banter. They interact with others by debating ideas, criticizing society, and analyzing trends.

Less healthy Social Fives become unable to relate to others except through the role of their expertise. They use the information they have gathered as bargaining chips, as their way of wielding power. They can become socially ambitious in the sense of wanting to be part of the intellectual or artistic elite. They would prefer not to "waste their time" on those who cannot understand their work.

In the unhealthy range, Social Fives tend to express extreme and provocative ideas. They are often anarchistic and antisocial, heaping derision on the human race, seeing it as nothing more than a ship of fools. They can develop bizarre theories about society or reality but, unlike Self-Preservation Fives, are determined to propound them to others.

 

[VivianeScrooge]

For what it's worth, most of what you describe sound like typical 5 feelings, no matter the stacking or wings. I don't deal much with MBTI so I'll leave that part alone.

Have you checked out some of these threads? They may strike a chord, in terms of how some of us other 5's have experienced our lives thus far:
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-forum-investigator/88289-friends.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-forum-investigator/91238-what-causes-5s-withdraw.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-forum-investigator/93920-ostracism-type-fives.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-forum-investigator/96788-do-you-feel-human.html

Feeling "outside" is pretty common for 5's. Your high school description mirrors mine. People always seemed to know who I was, but I was definitely a wallflower. I had my few friends but we didn't take classes together, so I generally kept completely to myself in class I try to challenge myself by pushing my comfort with my social boundaries, but I'm also at a place where I'm okay accepting that I only have a few close friends, and while i get along with people well in general, I don't really want anymore of them in my life in a really personal way. As for dating, personally I found online was the way to go - I met my boyfriend online 4 years ago and it was a good fit - but you usually have to be very very patient before someone worth while comes along.

I also wanted to add that although it's true you don't strike me as a particular SOCIAL type 5, being a social 5 doesn't always mean you're a more social person. SO is also third in my stacking and I still relate to parts of it, but I have a very strong SX so I'm often very interested in having close, personal bonds with people rather than relating through my expertise. I'm one of those 5's who lives with my partner and have no qualms about it but we're very respectful of each other and he knows about the Enneagram so its been helpful in our trouble spots. The way you write about wanting to find a niche and form personal connections makes me wonder if you've considered SX first - I used to think I was SP/SX but after getting more in depth in the variant descriptions its obvious that although I can look like an SP first, I'm sure I'm SX. But this is the SOCIAL description without stacking:

The Specialist. In the average range, Scoial Fives engage with others and find a social niche for themselves through their knowledge and skill. They like to see themselves as Masters of Wisdom and want to become indispensable through their particular field of expertise (the only person in the office who knows hot to fix the computer, for example). The most intellectual type of Five, Social Fives are often drawn to academics, science, and other forms of guruhood. They play the social role of the shaman, the wise person who lives at the edge of the tribe and brings back secret knowledge. Social Fives like to talk about weighty topics and complex theories, but they are generally uninterested in social banter. They interact with others by debating ideas, criticizing society, and analyzing trends.

Less healthy Social Fives become unable to relate to others except through the role of their expertise. They use the information they have gathered as bargaining chips, as their way of wielding power. They can become socially ambitious in the sense of wanting to be part of the intellectual or artistic elite. They would prefer not to "waste their time" on those who cannot understand their work.

In the unhealthy range, Social Fives tend to express extreme and provocative ideas. They are often anarchistic and antisocial, heaping derision on the human race, seeing it as nothing more than a ship of fools. They can develop bizarre theories about society or reality but, unlike Self-Preservation Fives, are determined to propound them to others.

Thanks for reminding me about the description of Social fives. After pondering for awhile, I realize that I'm an SX/SO. I notice much of me in the description about finding a social niche through my knowledge and skill.

As for you @Wayfarer, maybe people notice you. You're the one that doesn't know. Its not that I'm saying you're not observant, probably you are too focus on your thoughts other things are oblivious to you, a typical five. I know this because this is what I'm going through.

People always said I'm not paying attention with my surroundings and it always aggravates me. Because from my point of view I'm always alert, I just realize what they referring to is how people react to me, people around ME, not every thing in general. Detachment, darn, everything made sense now.

It took a long time for me to figure out, and to be certain that I'm a five. I'm an INTP, hi feeler counterpart.

 

[Ayia]

@Wayfarer, I'm the exact same way. Even down to going to a university none of my friends were going to. It's a bit of a hopeless feeling. But I know I'm making myself expendable by always downplaying my own significance, so it's my own fault.

Experience has taught me that being honest about who I am, leads to the most giving social experiences. Me and a guy I know usually spend hours talking about how awful we are at social situations like weddings etc. Or how we don't feel like being assertive. So in my experience the best conversations come from finding people who also deviate from the dominant norms, and discussing (okay, mostly joking about) how it is to not accept either the goals or methods society expects ut to follow. If I was completely "normal" I wouldn't have gotten the same sense of recognition with some people. Of course I always make sure I'm not lost in the whole inferiority theme. Often there is a strength in being different that can't be missed. But previous posters have covered the strengths of being different brilliantly.