[PyrLove]

I read Rosalind Wiseman's book, Queen Bees and Wannabes, when my daughter was in middle school. I wanted to better understand the cliques and power trips she was likely to encounter as she began to mature.

http://rosalindwiseman.com/publications/queen-bees-and-wannabes/
Girl Cliques - The Roles Teen Girls Play

In my perpetual unpacking, I found the book again and flipped through it last night. I was struck by how the roles, designed around pre-adolescent and teenaged girls are just as applicable to adult women. I have encountered each of these roles in my work.

Queen Bee: alpha female; popularity is based on fear and control; charisma, looks, money, will, force, manipulation; weakens ties between others for the sake of strengthening her own power base

Sidekick: second in command; appears to be the Queen’s twin but has no real power on her own

Banker: keeper of the gossip; strategically dispenses tidbits to her advantage; can be as powerful as the Queen but does not publicly seek power

Floater: has friends in several groups and can freely move between them; good characteristics (attractive, intelligent, charismatic) but not enough to threaten the Queen; often has good self-esteem

Torn Bystander: caught between parties in conflicts; rationalizes the Queen’s behavior even knowing it is wrong; values access to the clique’s power more than her own principles

Pleaser/Wannabe: supports the Queen and Sidekick at all costs; desperate to fit in but does not want to be seen as trying too hard; often ends up doing the dirty work for the Queen

Target: victim of the clique; can be outside the group or inside; if inside the group, the status is likely the result of challenging the Queen’s power

Can you identify women in your life who fill one or more of these roles?
Do you think these roles are more likely to be filled by a particular personality type?
What behaviors are most obvious in adult women that would slot them into one of these roles?
Are there other roles not listed here?

 

[Filo]

Do you have any personal experiences with this? You were a young woman not too long ago after all.

 

[taylor2005]

I read Rosalind Wiseman's book, Queen Bees and Wannabes, when my daughter was in middle school. I wanted to better understand the cliques and power trips she was likely to encounter as she began to mature.

http://rosalindwiseman.com/publicati...-and-wannabes/
Girl Cliques - The Roles Teen Girls Play

In my perpetual unpacking, I found the book again and flipped through it last night. I was struck by how the roles, designed around pre-adolescent and teenaged girls are just as applicable to adult women. I have encountered each of these roles in my work.

Queen Bee: alpha female; popularity is based on fear and control; charisma, looks, money, will, force, manipulation; weakens ties between others for the sake of strengthening her own power base:
I was and still am friends with the homecoming queen and class president in high school.

Sidekick: second in command; appears to be the Queen’s twin but has no real power on her own: I didn't get along with this girl because she is jealous of the relationship I have with the queen bee.

Banker: keeper of the gossip; strategically dispenses tidbits to her advantage; can be as powerful as the Queen but does not publicly seek power: I can’t STAND this girl and the feeling is mutual.

Floater: has friends in several groups and can freely move between them; good characteristics (attractive, intelligent, charismatic) but not enough to threaten the Queen; often has good self-esteem: This is how I was in high school more or less.

Torn Bystander: caught between parties in conflicts; rationalizes the Queen’s behavior even knowing it is wrong; values access to the clique’s power more than her own principles:

Pleaser/Wannabe: supports the Queen and Sidekick at all costs; desperate to fit in but does not want to be seen as trying too hard; often ends up doing the dirty work for the Queen: I never bothered with these girls.

Target: victim of the clique; can be outside the group or inside; if inside the group, the status is likely the result of challenging the Queen’s power: I always stick up for the underdog and I don’t give a crap about what the queen bee thinks

Can you identify women in your life who fill one or more of these roles?
Do you think these roles are more likely to be filled by a particular personality type?
What behaviors are most obvious in adult women that would slot them into one of these roles?
Are there other roles not listed here?

My homecoming queen friend is two-faced and not as confident as she appears to be; she knows that I know this and that I won’t tolerate her haughty behavior. It is to my understanding that under all her bitchy exterior is a very insecure person who needs reassurance. She always calls me when she wants to hear the truth and sometimes she is in tears.

This is an interesting post that brings to light some issues women face in adolescence and all the way into womanhood. My close girl friends were never in cliques and were floaters like me. I don’t know if it has to do with personality types per se because I think it has a lot to do with deep set insecurities. I could be wrong, and I dislike making generalizations’. This is all I have from my experiences … Thank you for the links.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Womans eh?

 

[PyrLove]

Are there similar roles among men Jim?

 

[lirulin]

I never met any of these people, really. I kind of thought it was an imaginary American Hollywood trope until around graduate school when a couple of friends started telling me all about the random bullshit drama in their lives. It was all new to me. I think I perhaps scare these weirdos off - or I'm just too busy with my own life and real friends for them to be able to involve me in their schemes. Now I know a couple of sorta drama people, though one I definitely don't talk to anymore. My main friends group never had any of that shit and is still really low on it.

 

[Filo]

In my experience, men have it much simpler. There is the alpha male. And the rest.

 

[ThisIsWhereIrunAway]

Are there similar roles among men Jim?

I know you were asking him but I would say no. All the bros are all bros xD.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Are there similar roles among men Jim?

I don't think it is any different for men, there are rebels, leaders, groupies and people who drift between all roles :laughing:

I don't think men as brutal about it, almost, much more direct. If two men dislike each other, both will know it and rarely will either try to reconcile that.

 

[Isis]

I'm a floater... but then so are many of my friends. It's more convenient, and in college it was great because it would take 2 days for people to notice I was missing --ah, blessed down time.

I'm not so good with the queen bees because basically I don't "get" the whole "girl" interaction thing, and there's a ton of implicit communicate with your eyes stuff to deal with from the queen bee.

 

[beth x]

I find it a bit of a LOL that this is in the INTJ section.

INTJ's are generally loners, somewhat misunderstood and different, and therefore not likely to be involved in large social groups.

Dyads are probably more mainstay for INTJ women.

I only ever had one friend at a time at school.

As an adult I have found that I have never really been involved in groups of women. I actually avoid them. Like all of my girlfriends I have collected over the years....we have all been victims of groups at school but never because we posed a threat...just that we were different in one way or another.

I have only ever seen people as individuals and only usually have one confidant at any given time. I really don't like repeating my news over and over again to people. It's taxing. I wouldn't even know where to begin with slotting anyone I know into any of those roles.

 

[Voici Claire]

sounds like BS :/

 

[Isis]

And if you're looking for a book about cliques that includes boys: Freaks, Geeks, and Cool Kids

was pretty OK.

 

[Philosophizer]

Are there similar roles among men

Not quite as many

I would say that for guys there is basically just group leaders, followers and outcasts or 'floaters'. I have always been more of a floater where if I disagree with the leader I will just leave and go do my own thing or join up with another group I have connections with.

We don't generally have 'sidekicks' there is usually just one group leader and he doesn't have a right hand man (unless you're plotting world domination or something, then it might be a good idea to name a second in command).

I think that it is funny that guys tend to get a bad rap of being 'immature' when in many ways we are much more mature and civilized from a social standpoint than girls. Girls can basically be as mean and cruel as they want to other girls. Guys actually have what we call 'guy code' which is basically the widely accepted notion that no guy will cock block or spread rumors about other guys. Making up lies about another person because you don't like them is seen as a 'bitch' move to guys. Not in the sense of offending girls but engaging in a 'bitch' move is very offensive and immasculating to guys. Yes, there are some guys who do like to get involved in drama but it always involves women. Guys would not stand for it. So we would never have a 'type' whose sole purpose is to spread rumors. That's just a ridiculous concept to guys.

The effect guy code has on men is not to be underestimated. You can be the biggest douchebag in the world and despise another guy but you still can't cock block him, as much as it might piss you off that he is talking to an attractive girl. 'Cock block' meaning interrupt him in the middle of a conversation with a girl. If she stops talking to him and leaves then it is fair game for another guy to attempt flirting with her but if you cock block a guy when he is talking to a girl then you will lose respect from every other guy in the room. And even a doutchebag needs the respect of his douchebag friends. And if a guy is your really good friend then he will even go as far as to be your wing man and pretend to flirt with a girls unattractive friend just so that you have a chance to talk alone with the girl you like. That is loyalty. Girls on the other hand cock block each other all the time, especially best friends. And I know the argument that girls give that "I wasn't cock blocking her, girls give each other signals so that their friend will step in if she is not interested in the guy". Yes, I'm sure that is the case sometimes but the fact is, girls get jealous of each other. There was a girl last year who had a big crush on me, I wasn't even into her that way but it was very easy to tell. And when her best friend wasn't getting as much attention she would start drama so people would focus on her or interrupt her own friend when she was talking/flirting with me. I also notice that girls leave parties at the most random times when they notice their friend is getting attention from guys and they are not, this is also a form of cock blocking. A guy would stay with his friend if his friend was making progress with a girl even if he wasn't receiving the same attention from girls at the party.

It seems that with girls loyalty gets trumped by jealousy much of the time. I'm not saying that this might not be the case for guys as well if we didn't have a code to follow which required us to be civil and also hold respect to be of utmost importance. Note that I am not saying this is all girls, just a vast majority of them. INTJ women for instance are much more mature than most guys I know. Also, there are many girls who tend to only hangout with guys (or at least have only a very few close girlfriends) because they don't like dealing with the drama either.

 

[PyrLove]

Do you have any personal experiences with this?

Yes, I have personal experience with this. Why create a thread for which I have neither experience nor interest? I have examples from high school and from my work places.

This is an interesting post that brings to light some issues women face in adolescence and all the way into womanhood. My close girl friends were never in cliques and were floaters like me. I don’t know if it has to do with personality types per se because I think it has a lot to do with deep set insecurities. I could be wrong, and I dislike making generalizations’. This is all I have from my experiences … Thank you for the links. [/I]

Thank you Taylor. As I've watched my daughter cope with the girls in school, I've come to realize that power struggles within the social circles are a significant factor in her day-to-day life. It has prompted me to examine the dynamics among the women in my work environments. In an office of 12 people, 6 of them are women. I can identify which role each woman fills. This has helped me understand how to best work with each of them.

I find it a bit of a LOL that this is in the INTJ section.

INTJ's are generally loners, somewhat misunderstood and different, and therefore not likely to be involved in large social groups.

I chose to place this thread in the INTJ section because 1) I am seeking discussion with a group of individuals I respect and, 2) because we are usually loners/outsiders/observers/Floaters we are uniquely positioned to examine the ebb and flow of the power structure and provide objective analysis.

I agree we are generally loners and unlikely to be involved in large social groups. However, this dynamic doesn't have to be exclusive to a social group. I have identified it in my current work place. I can also see it in play within my extended family.

Gentlemen, I know this thread may seem to solicit responses from only the women, but you are also well positioned to comment. Other perspectives are welcome.

 

[taylor2005]

Yes, I have personal experience with this. Why create a thread for which I have neither experience nor interest? I have examples from high school and from my work places.



Thank you Taylor. As I've watched my daughter cope with the girls in school, I've come to realize that power struggles within the social circles are a significant factor in her day-to-day life. It has prompted me to examine the dynamics among the women in my work environments. In an office of 12 people, 6 of them are women. I can identify which role each woman fills. This has helped me understand how to best work with each of them.



I chose to place this thread in the INTJ section because 1) I am seeking discussion with a group of individuals I respect and, 2) because we are usually loners/outsiders/observers/Floaters we are uniquely positioned to examine the ebb and flow of the power structure and provide objective analysis.

I agree we are generally loners and unlikely to be involved in large social groups. However, this dynamic doesn't have to be exclusive to a social group. I have identified it in my current work place. I can also see it in play within my extended family.

Gentlemen, I know this thread may seem to solicit responses from only the women, but you are also well positioned to comment. Other perspectives are welcome.

You're welcome

I grew up in a VERY small town and couldn't help knowing or interacting with certain women ... Lucky for me I had this strong interest in sociology I would interact ... I learned a lot that helped me later in life. I was always a tom boy and at first had great difficuly understanding women.

 

[Anahata]

Tell your daughter this, if you'd like:

I was a victim all my life until I realized that this was the role I chose to inhabit to satisfy the needs of others who craved power. I wore that role as the robe of martyrdom and it neither helped the people I "served" in being their victim, nor could it create growth in me. The day I decided I was no longer their victim, those people stopped trying to use me as their victim.

It was also the day I realized that I have everything I need within me to succeed in life.

 

[taylor2005]

Curious.

Belle? An INTJ? I wonder ...

 

[Hemoglobin]

Curious.

Belle? An INTJ? I wonder ...

YouTube - Belle (Little Town) - Beauty and the Beast (1991)

"Bonjour."
"Fuck you."
"I hate your family"

 

[taylor2005]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq6XWpyH5M4

"Bonjour."
"Fuck you."
"I hate your family"

THAT was hilarious!!!! Thank you!!!