[Rivulet]

A question posted and answered on the ENTJ sub forum about weak Fi or Fi and weakness (I don't remember the details) made me start thinking about the role of Fi in achieving or messing up reaching the INFP's long term goals (at least a couple of years away).

I would like to know how you guys see this.

For me Fi can be a strong drive. It's my core, it gives me stubbornness with which I can sometimes do or achieve things I never thought I would.

The problem is that every day life and work doesn't always stimulate Fi. And then there are also the larger projects and goals I set and even though I really want(ed) to achieve them, over time I can lose motivation, will procrastinate, find other interests, even start disliking the goals I set in previous years, be soft on myself (I dislike working late or waking up early). In short, I lack discipline. I wonder if that's also because of dominant Fi? Or is this simply my weak Te? I also noticed that it's not that I don't want to work. I've no problem with a portion of brainless repetitive work as long as I know I'm going somewhere. And as long as I don't have to skip my dinner for it.

Could it be that it's because the process is for us sometimes as important as the goal, so there is less of a pull factor to conclusion? And thus we want the process to be enjoyable instead of a period of harsh discipline?

Do other INFP's feel this opposition to certain levels of self discipline as well? How far do you go to achieve goals? Must these goals always be dictated by your Fi in order to be strong enough to pull you all the way or did you find techniques to do what most be done?

 

[GTG]

Haha what a coincidence. Just yesterday I looked up how to have self-discipline after reading tips for 4's (which might apply to you too since many INFPs are also 4's):

"Avoid putting off things until you are “in the right mood.” Commit yourself to productive, meaningful work that will contribute to your good and that of others, no matter how small the contribution may be. Working consistently in the real world will create a context in which you can discover yourself and your talents. (Actually, you are happiest when you are working—that is, activating your potentials and realizing yourself. You will not “find yourself” in a vacuum or while waiting for inspiration to strike, so connect—and stay connected—with the real world."

"A wholesome self-discipline takes many forms, from sleeping regular hours to working regularly to exercising regularly, and has a cumulative, strengthening effect. Since it comes from yourself, a healthy self-discipline is not contrary to your freedom or individuality. On the other hand, sensuality, excessive sexual experiences, alcohol, drugs, sleep, or fantasizing have a debilitating effect on you, as you already know. Therefore, practice healthy self-discipline and stay with it."

Taken from: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-4/#sthash.39NctwKl.dpuf

I really need to follow this advice. It seems for me I love thinking about my goal way more than the process or the result. I guess I create an unrealistic picture of my goals in my head resulting in my initial passion dying down once things don't go the way I picture them to (which sucks because I don't achieve my goals). For me the hardest part is starting and getting into the "zone," once I get into the zone things usually go well (Until I stop and then it's the whole process all over again -___-)

The only things that motivate me are a definite and approaching deadline (I'm a procrastinator) and fear of letting others down which is why I work harder in group projects.

I guess this is why I don't achieve my goals...I take action based on my current feelings not logic that would presume that I would be happy if I accomplished my goal in the future

 

[youmakejoke]

I've chased many false Fi goals during my teenage and early adulthood, but I guess fi reaches new conclusion about reality when new information is consumed/experienced. Over the years it develops and you will learn to work with the rest of your functions to get better conclusions for Fi to judge and contemplate about life goals and here is developing te kinda the thing ye :frustrating:

I agree with if everyday work doesn't stimulate Fi it will eventually brake you down mentally if it isn't just a way to make your free time perfect or that statement could just be a overreaction


Fi is like a train if you think about it..... slow slow start gets to high speed and then it cant stop, Fi at that point will only stop if shit gets booring or values changes. Fi wants you to stay in your own magic world stepping outside trading life views with smart or many ppl to get new perceptives so you could work on your next fi value adventure, this is the hardest part i find atleast as I must get convinced you know there is no fooling your Fi function it gotta feel real what ever the new adventure might be. But with all that in mind even though everything is repetitive realize there is some learning to be done to stick with what ever shit you got infront of you and get it done everyday while ofc trying to change to the new Fi value goal of your life. What helps is trying not to fall to far of the grid for to long when Fi dreams gets smashed its the typical thing when fi dreams get smashes shall I take on the victims roll or just dust yourself of and go on (I know I hate when people say this but you know its true) I just ranted abit hope I made Any sense

 

[Rivulet]

Haha what a coincidence. Just yesterday I looked up how to have self-discipline after reading tips for 4's (which might apply to you too since many INFPs are also 4's):

"Avoid putting off things until you are “in the right mood.” Commit yourself to productive, meaningful work that will contribute to your good and that of others, no matter how small the contribution may be. Working consistently in the real world will create a context in which you can discover yourself and your talents. (Actually, you are happiest when you are working—that is, activating your potentials and realizing yourself. You will not “find yourself” in a vacuum or while waiting for inspiration to strike, so connect—and stay connected—with the real world."

"A wholesome self-discipline takes many forms, from sleeping regular hours to working regularly to exercising regularly, and has a cumulative, strengthening effect. Since it comes from yourself, a healthy self-discipline is not contrary to your freedom or individuality. On the other hand, sensuality, excessive sexual experiences, alcohol, drugs, sleep, or fantasizing have a debilitating effect on you, as you already know. Therefore, practice healthy self-discipline and stay with it."

Taken from: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-4/#sthash.39NctwKl.dpuf

I really need to follow this advice. It seems for me I love thinking about my goal way more than the process or the result. I guess I create an unrealistic picture of my goals in my head resulting in my initial passion dying down once things don't go the way I picture them to (which sucks because I don't achieve my goals). For me the hardest part is starting and getting into the "zone," once I get into the zone things usually go well (Until I stop and then it's the whole process all over again -___-)

Good advice, thanks!

The only things that motivate me are a definite and approaching deadline (I'm a procrastinator) and fear of letting others down which is why I work harder in group projects.

I guess this is why I don't achieve my goals...I take action based on my current feelings not logic that would presume that I would be happy if I accomplished my goal in the future

I think this confirms that we must develop our Te in order to achieve our goals.

I wonder if Fi can have a role as well, by for example giving a stronger motivation to get certain things done? I do have some of that I think, as the idea that I would dream my life away and not accomplish something worthwhile does scare me. But then again, there's the problem that the things I value most in life are not the things you "accomplish" by mere will power or hard work, but those things you receive and experience with and from others. This might be another reason for my "laziness". Most "achievements" like a degree don't give me or others happiness. But they might a door to something more... I'll have to dig still a little deeper.

 

[Rivulet]

I've chased many false Fi goals during my teenage and early adulthood, but I guess fi reaches new conclusion about reality when new information is consumed/experienced. Over the years it develops and you will learn to work with the rest of your functions to get better conclusions for Fi to judge and contemplate about life goals and here is developing te kinda the thing ye :frustrating:

I agree with if everyday work doesn't stimulate Fi it will eventually brake you down mentally if it isn't just a way to make your free time perfect or that statement could just be a overreaction


Fi is like a train if you think about it..... slow slow start gets to high speed and then it cant stop, Fi at that point will only stop if shit gets booring or values changes. Fi wants you to stay in your own magic world stepping outside trading life views with smart or many ppl to get new perceptives so you could work on your next fi value adventure, this is the hardest part i find atleast as I must get convinced you know there is no fooling your Fi function it gotta feel real what ever the new adventure might be. But with all that in mind even though everything is repetitive realize there is some learning to be done to stick with what ever shit you got infront of you and get it done everyday while ofc trying to change to the new Fi value goal of your life. What helps is trying not to fall to far of the grid for to long when Fi dreams gets smashed its the typical thing when fi dreams get smashes shall I take on the victims roll or just dust yourself of and go on (I know I hate when people say this but you know its true) I just ranted abit hope I made Any sense

It has to be real, that's so true. But I think Fi and Te is a good combo, they balance each other well. Te will stop Fi from being to dreamy or chasing one dream after the other.

 

[youmakejoke]

It has to be real, that's so true. But I think Fi and Te is a good combo, they balance each other well. Te will stop Fi from being to dreamy or chasing one dream after the other.

Ah yes true I almost never go completly Fi. Te always pull me back I noticed that especially during shroom trips. Anyway I got ADD so I might jump abit more into the Fi completly at times....... hence some broken body parts and such

 

[bigstupidgrin]

A question posted and answered on the ENTJ sub forum about weak Fi or Fi and weakness (I don't remember the details) made me start thinking about the role of Fi in achieving or messing up reaching the INFP's long term goals (at least a couple of years away).

I would like to know how you guys see this.

For me Fi can be a strong drive. It's my core, it gives me stubbornness with which I can sometimes do or achieve things I never thought I would.

The problem is that every day life and work doesn't always stimulate Fi. And then there are also the larger projects and goals I set and even though I really want(ed) to achieve them, over time I can lose motivation, will procrastinate, find other interests, even start disliking the goals I set in previous years, be soft on myself (I dislike working late or waking up early). In short, I lack discipline. I wonder if that's also because of dominant Fi? Or is this simply my weak Te? I also noticed that it's not that I don't want to work. I've no problem with a portion of brainless repetitive work as long as I know I'm going somewhere. And as long as I don't have to skip my dinner for it.

Could it be that it's because the process is for us sometimes as important as the goal, so there is less of a pull factor to conclusion? And thus we want the process to be enjoyable instead of a period of harsh discipline?

Do other INFP's feel this opposition to certain levels of self discipline as well? How far do you go to achieve goals? Must these goals always be dictated by your Fi in order to be strong enough to pull you all the way or did you find techniques to do what most be done?

I think you pretty much hit everything correctly. I have to feel like the minutae of the day has to lead towards something, an end goal, or at least align with a value, in order for me to put a good effort towards it. Even if I'm kidding myself. Discipline for discipline's sake is very difficult for me too, and I certainly lack in some areas, especially self-control.

A good metaphor for my sense of process is what you see when you watch an arrow being fired in slow motion. You'd think an arrow would fly straight, but in reality the arrow is wobbling the entire time, even if it finds the target. Process is important but I never really focus on it, I lose myself in the process. I can't repeat any process for anything, which I think infuriates my SJ coworkers/bosses through the years. I have to feel myself through it. Maybe that's Ne talking, an ISFP's perspective would be interesting on process.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I think my high ideals make me feel like I do not accomplish enough. But this is not how others perceive me. I am not seen as lazy or someone who accomplishes nothing. People around me tell me that I actually do lot, but so much of it is not meaningful to me, or if it is, then it doesn't bear the typical markers of "success" (ie money or status).

However, I do know I lack the kind of self-discipline a typical Te-dom may have. However, I also have realized it is partly because I do not approach life/goals in the same way, and it is okay. I have become a bottom line person - if it gets done and is honest, then the method matters little. This doesn't mean I don't want to enjoy the process...but I find Te-dom more attached to "methods", whether or not they enjoy them. So for me, non-linear manners and "goofing off" is okay, so long as the end result is good. I have trouble focusing on doing things in a step-by-step way, and forcing it is not necessarily the solution. Instead of waiting for the mood to strike, cultivating inspiration works pretty well. As others have noted, lack of potential to lead to something bigger can be demotivating, so I have to work to connect little tasks to the bigger picture, but it is very easy to make them so low priority they don't get done. I don't know if this is actually a problem all the time though; I don't think I am going to look back on life and remember fondly how my laundry was always put away....so sometimes, I think, why bother?

I also have to loosen up on my ideals a bit to acknowledge value in what I do. I tend to be too critical of it and downplay it, whereas others present themselves as high-achievers. INFPs may achieve stuff that simply is not "measurable" in the usual ways; that doesn't make it lacking in value.

 

[Rivulet]

I think my high ideals make me feel like I do not accomplish enough. But this is not how others perceive me. I am not seen as lazy or someone who accomplishes nothing. People around me tell me that I actually do lot, but so much of it is not meaningful to me, or if it is, then it doesn't bear the typical markers of "success" (ie money or status).

With me it's the same. Most people see me as a very serious and hard working person. Only now, a few in the academic circle are probably wondering what's taking me so long to finish my project. And it's mainly in this context, with this rather long term project, that I have had to face my own lack of discipline and organisation and have had, for the first time, rather unpleasant consequences of this trait. It might be that I have reached some kind of intellectual limit, but a lack of motivation is playing a role as well.

However, I do know I lack the kind of self-discipline a typical Te-dom may have. However, I also have realized it is partly because I do not approach life/goals in the same way, and it is okay.

I also have to loosen up on my ideals a bit to acknowledge value in what I do. I tend to be too critical of it and downplay it, whereas others present themselves as high-achievers. INFPs may achieve stuff that simply is not "measurable" in the usual ways; that doesn't make it lacking in value.

This is an interesting observation. I think some forms of the lack of motivation I get in the project I chose can be linked with me having different goals. When I have reached my goal (when I get the big picture, understand certain aspects), the goals of the project aren't neccessarily met.

I fully agree that the most important things in life are not measurable. I guess I'm trying to see where are strength lies to get the less important, but still necessary things (work, money, planning, whatever we want to achieve...) done as they help us meet our "higher" goals as well. What you said about painting the bigger picture is probably the first step.

 

[attic]

Do other INFP's feel this opposition to certain levels of self discipline as well? How far do you go to achieve goals? Must these goals always be dictated by your Fi in order to be strong enough to pull you all the way or did you find techniques to do what most be done?

It depends a lot on what period I am in at the moment, I have months with more energy and motivation, and ones with less, it seems to follow the year quite often, feeling motivated in spring and summer, less so in autumn and winter (then shorttermstuff like making my home homely, cooking etc, is more of a priority, and I tend to be tired). When I am tired I have little self dicipline, and it doesn't seem to have much to do with Fi, as it will scold and blame and shame, but it doesn't help in the least, I work for carrots, not under the whip, which I think is also due to Fi in a way, that my values says I won't submit to threats, even if they are from me, so then I will stubbornly refuse to do whatever it was I ought to do. Same if it is someone else who thinks I should do something often, I am a bit like a threeyearold in that sense... and it is annoying.

I can sometimes work very hard when motivated enough, too hard, so that I get nearly burnt out (which I do quite easily compared to others it seems), like I have taken shifts from a coworker when I felt loyalty/solidarity demands it, working to ten in the evening, then start at seven and work to ten in the evening resulting in my mind getting a bit... odd. Or once for a project that I felt was important, and I also felt responsibility, and worked I don't know how much, and then when it was over I more or less slept for 48 hours.

I think Fi dictates motivation mostly, though sometimes pure pleasure is enough, if rewards are instant, but Fi is not always enough, there need to be energy too, and acheivement anxiety might get in the way etc. But if I don't value it enough then what is the point really? isn't Fi doing its job well if making me lazy when it comes to things that doesn't matter? If that is the case then I don't see the point in finding techniques to overcome it.

The question I think you might be after is how to connect the first steps to the end goal? I must say I am not great at this, and will read this thread in hope of more ideas. But somethings that might help, is:
-finding another value to help you through the most boring steps, like solidarity with your coworkers for example, if the endgoal is to make money to finance that amazing project you want to do in ten years.
-find another way to get to the endgoal that is more in line with your values
-make it into a story, with different steps, or "chapters", think of it more as a plot-line, than a plan of progress, the different obstacles and adverseries you or your group have to overcome to reach your goal (storytelling, the mind process this kind of thinking very well, it connects things, make it feel grand, which is more motivating than the mundane, and is easier to remember, and fun)
-Try to simply connect the joy/importance you feel thinking about the end goal, with the task at hand. I want to study a subject this fall or next for example, and find it difficult to motivate myself to study maths, which I need for the test to get in, (not so much for the course itself), it is easier if I read a bit about the subject, then do a bit maths, then read a bit about the subject ect... letting my mind connect the two.

 

[infpgiftncurse]

yeah I can relate to this completely