Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
MOTM Nov 2010
Joined
·
10,402 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering why I never really meshed with the rest of my Fe dom family. They want sacrifice for the greater good of the family. This concept makes me shudder.

I've been wondering why I've always felt that family is the destruction of the individual. But now I think I get it. Are there any Fi dom people that can relate to what I'm saying? How do you deal with Fe people in your family telling you that you "should" do something because of family or because of a family get-together?

I tend to run from family get-togethers. I detest doing something just because the rest of the family does it. I also like breaking traditions, too. I know. I'm a brat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,289 Posts
i have an almost toxic reaction to anything i "should" be doing if i don't enjoy it.

i think this is pretty much in line with everything else i do. i made a thread recently about not caring what i'm "supposed" to do, i want to do what i "feel" like doing (e.g. having bbq sauce on a sunday roast). the concept of "because you're supposed to" is just idiotic to me and it makes me want to tear things which are cute and cuddly.

when i ask why.. the reaction i usually get is as if the question "why" is a paradox.. you just "should" (grrr).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,625 Posts
Sacrifice? Well that's a little extreme. Me, a so-called martyr, has wondered how I can escape mortality! That is why I exercise and try to eat more fruits and veggies.

In all seriousness, I think any controlling Fe person can get on your nerves by always asking you to do things for the sake of family. I used to get yuck reactions when my parents asked me to write thank-you notes and stuff I didn't feel necessary.

As for myself, I always loved family get-togethers, especially at a younger age. My day would be happier with that prospect. I think the reason for respecting and appreciating family is not because I get along with them. Because they are put under the label of family, I see family as people I can automatically trust.

I understand that Fi users like the ENFP have a more open, liberal approach to things beyond what they are told is good and bad?
 

·
MOTM Nov 2010
Joined
·
10,402 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Sacrifice? Well that's a little extreme. Me, a so-called martyr, has wondered how I can escape mortality! That is why I exercise and try to eat more fruits and veggies.

In all seriousness, I think any controlling Fe person can get on your nerves by always asking you to do things for the sake of family. I used to get yuck reactions when my parents asked me to write thank-you notes and stuff I didn't feel necessary.

As for myself, I always loved family get-togethers, especially at a younger age. My day would be happier with that prospect. I think the reason for respecting and appreciating family is not because I get along with them. Because they are put under the label of family, I see family as people I can automatically trust.

I understand that Fi users like the ENFP have a more open, liberal approach to things beyond what they are told is good and bad?
We have an inner sense of morals. It is not based on laws from the outside. It often makes us less liberal as we can't live with ourselves when we feel we have done something wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MilkyWay132

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
I was wondering why I never really meshed with the rest of my Fe dom family. They want sacrifice for the greater good of the family. This concept makes me shudder.

I've been wondering why I've always felt that family is the destruction of the individual. But now I think I get it. Are there any Fi dom people that can relate to what I'm saying? How do you deal with Fe people in your family telling you that you "should" do something because of family or because of a family get-together?

I tend to run from family get-togethers. I detest doing something just because the rest of the family does it. I also like breaking traditions, too. I know. I'm a brat.
I have noticed a similar thought pattern with a lot of my Fi dom friends. My INFP friend will adamantly refuse to do something, just because he "should" do it. He feels like I am making him do something, even if its for his own benefit. Its often how Fi users view Fe users.

Its funny though, because when he gets all Te on me, basically telling me what I am saying or thinking, I get very rigid. As a Ti user, my thoughts are my own. Its okay if he tells me how to think but its not okay if I tell him what to do. This double standard frustrates me, especially since most Te users do not realize they do that.

I am actually okay with Fi dom users as long as they are reasonable and not self destructive. They get me to try new things, which is cool. I am not okay with certain behaviors though. Sometimes, in attempting to be individualistic, they go too far, and lose themselves. Doing things that are harmful to themselves(and possibly others) makes me cringe. Breaking traditions for the sake of breaking traditions does not sit well with me. If its harmful, then fine, I am all for breaking it. However, if its fine, and it makes many people happy, then why would I want to destroy that?

I have an ENFP friend who sacrifices for her family. She has a few definite lines she does not cross, but for the most part is willing to do what is required of her. She has found a nice balance, where she does not allow for her family to rule her, yet she still remains faithful to them. She is still individualistic, while making the appropriate sacrifices needed. I can respect that. Like all things in life, balance is the key.
 

·
MOTM Nov 2010
Joined
·
10,402 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Its funny though, because when he gets all Te on me, basically telling me what I am saying or thinking, I get very rigid. As a Ti user, my thoughts are my own. Its okay if he tells me how to think but its not okay if I tell him what to do. This double standard frustrates me, especially since most Te users do not realize they do that.
Could you explain this more? I really believe this is where my ex ESFJ and I had a clash. I heard a similar complaint from him yet, I don't like telling people how they feel. I would like to see it more objectively, if you will explain. I never felt like I was telling him how he thought. But I often pointed out his inconsistencies in his logic or when he was not staying with the subject at hand. He jumped around a lot.

Breaking traditions for the sake of breaking traditions does not sit well with me.
That doesn't sit well with me either. I don't break traditions just for the sake of it. I only do it if I they make little sense to me or if they get in the way of my life. And I really don't like the pressure.

Yeah, I've kissed ass quite a bit with my family. But I haven't gone home for Thanksgiving or Christmas in over a year. I also had dated a Jewish man last year and was seriously considering converting. Their traditions made better sense to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
Could you explain this more? I really believe this is where my ex ESFJ and I had a clash. I heard a similar complaint from him yet, I don't like telling people how they feel. I would like to see it more objectively, if you will explain. I never felt like I was telling him how he thought. But I often pointed out his inconsistencies in his logic or when he was not staying with the subject at hand. He jumped around a lot.
See, the problem is that these actions go unnoticed, and the person doing it does not see it as that. Just as Fe users do not realize they are encroaching on the Fi users individuality when they are simply tying to help them. It all comes down to a lack of understanding. Our Extroverted functions seem overreaching to Introverted functions of the same type. Ne can be overbearing and jumpy to an Ni user. Fe can seem constricting and tyrannical to a Fi user. Te can seem simplistic and inflexible to a Ti user. Se can seem overactive and unnecessary to Si users.

The less we understand about the function of the opposite orientation as our own, the more we are likely to shun it. If we do not understand it, then we can not value it, and if we do not value it, then we disregard it.

When you pointed out inconsistencies in his logic, you may have not actually know what he was necessarily meaning, but if you thought you did and sought to help him, then you most likely just ended up frustrating him. Your well meaning desire to keep him focused and accurate was overshadowed by your lack of understanding the meaning of what he was saying. So when you would correct him on something he was not even say, and insisting that this is what he was meaning, thats where it occurs most often. It can pass by in a instant, and you do not even realize you told him what he was saying, what he was trying to get across. Its so subtle yet so powerful.

Wow, that is one garbled mess of an answer which will probably only confuse you more. Sorry, I am quite sleep deprived. Maybe another time when I can think strait I will be able to articulate my thoughts better.

That doesn't sit well with me either. I don't break traditions just for the sake of it. I only do it if I they make little sense to me or if they get in the way of my life. And I really don't like the pressure.
To a Fe user, this seems disrespectful. May be helpful to be slightly more tactful with how . Just because something does not make sense to you, does mean you should disrespect it. Not saying that you are, I am just saying, thats how it comes across. My INFP friend has a similar view with taking responsibility. He does not like the pressure. It holds him back, because he is actually a natural leader. The prospect of which, with the amount of responsibility it holds, frightens him.

Yeah, I've kissed ass quite a bit with my family. But I haven't gone home for Thanksgiving or Christmas in over a year. I also had dated a Jewish man last year and was seriously considering converting. Their traditions made better sense to me.
I would not convert just because someone elses traditions make more sense. Try to come to better understand the traditions closer to home. Maybe, just maybe, you may come to appreciate them a little more.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
818 Posts
That doesn't sit well with me either. I don't break traditions just for the sake of it. I only do it if I they make little sense to me or if they get in the way of my life. And I really don't like the pressure.
To a Fe user, this seems disrespectful. May be helpful to be slightly more tactful with how . Just because something does not make sense to you, does mean you should disrespect it. Not saying that you are, I am just saying, thats how it comes across.
I'm an ENFP or ENTP. I don't break traditions just to break them, either, but they also aren't in my field of vision unless they are useful in some way. It would be just as disrespectful to me if someone insisted I follow traditions for traditions' sake as if I disrespected someone and verbally put traditions down. I understand that many people like traditions and I have no problem with it.

What I do is try to help people whenever they have need of my help. For example, my family got used to knowing that I wouldn't be around for family traditions since that was the time I had off of work to take longer trips, but they knew I'd be there if they needed help. We could have gotten into a situation where they felt disrespected by me not being there for Christmas or I felt the same for being forced to be there, but fortunately we recognized we were all different, with different needs, and managed to work together overall.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,849 Posts
I have a sense that the Fi minority in my Fe-dominant family is perceived to be more egoistical. However what I have established is that this Fi minority also has the Te that the rest of family is crucially lacking in lol. So really I came to view it like TeFi and FeTi people make up for each other's blindspots - it is really a good mix to have among related people - but because they cannot see each other's points of view easily, and everyone insists that their way is the right way, this can be ground for conflict.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,508 Posts
I read somewhere in all of these posts that it's not Ok for us to get orders but it is Ok for us to give orders?

.... well if we feel as if you are giving us orders that make us uncomfortable..... then that's our initial response..... to show you what you are doing. We aren't really OK with giving orders. It's just how we react when we feel trapped by someone else. If someone traps us and we can't escape.... best thing to do is to block them.... best way to do that is give orders. Te is a great wall to cut off stimuli that potentially hurts or momentarily hinders our natural self.


I think.... my explanations are always changing because I always feel a different way. So take that witha grain of salt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pinkrasputin

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,624 Posts
I tend to be the one who hounds my sisters to participate in family activities and do things around the house for 'the family' :unsure: but I don't get involved in family politics. I have seen extended family members fight over the most trivial things and remain passive aggressive for decades (until the 'nice' farce eventually dissipates). I don't want a bar of that. I once had an auntie who saboutaged the Christmas party because we all decided we didn't want to buy christmas presents for each other, and instead we would put that money into buying something for the less fortunate. She turned up with presents for the family and attempted to make everyone guilty for not buying presents. I tend to like the institution of (extended) family when people put emphasis into effective communication instead of saving face at the cost of genuine exchange.

[slightly related; In enneagram i'm a sp dom and my parents are sp last, and I tend to advocate for demonstrating healthy practices to my younger sisters and looking after the self first in order to look after others... whereas my parents advocate for the martyrdom and ignorance of self route (which I have seen them crumble under)].
 

·
MOTM Nov 2010
Joined
·
10,402 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I tend to be the one who hounds my sisters to participate in family activities and do things around the house for 'the family' :unsure: but I don't get involved in family politics. I have seen extended family members fight over the most trivial things and remain passive aggressive for decades (until the 'nice' farce eventually dissipates). I don't want a bar of that. I once had an auntie who saboutaged the Christmas party because we all decided we didn't want to buy christmas presents for each other, and instead we would put that money into buying something for the less fortunate. She turned up with presents for the family and attempted to make everyone guilty for not buying presents. I tend to like the institution of (extended) family when people put emphasis into effective communication instead of saving face at the cost of genuine exchange.
My family plays the passive game too. Such a waste of time. My role in the family is to smooth things out between arguing parties. But it's not so much because I worry about them breaking the family unit, it is because I don't want the individuals to fight. I don't want them to break or ignore each other. I'm happiest when they get along. My family members will get upset with me though, because I don't take sides. But when parties are busy ignoring each other, I have always been the go between. I am the reason many of our family dinners actually came into fruition. Damn, people can be stubborn in my family.

[slightly related; In enneagram i'm a sp dom and my parents are sp last, and I tend to advocate for demonstrating healthy practices to my younger sisters and looking after the self first in order to look after others... whereas my parents advocate for the martyrdom and ignorance of self route (which I have seen them crumble under)].
Omg! Yes!!!!! Exactly!!! So this is Sp? Okay, my family lacks that and has no concept of how damaging that can be. This typically why teenagers in my family have so many problems. The right to express self and become and individual is met with pressure to "give up" for the family.
 
  • Like
Reactions: susurration

·
MOTM Jan 2012
Joined
·
6,514 Posts
I know I'm not Fi, but I'm Ti, and the introverted judgments share some attitudinal similarities.

I like being around my family. I was never asked to "sacrifice" for the family...I was raised to be strong-minded and think for myself. My INFJ mom had a lot to do with this, and so did my ISTP dad in his own way.

My mom always encouraged individuality and imagination in my brother, sister, and myself. She has three children who are very sure of their own mind, and those minds do not agree with her in a lot of things, and she's all right with that. She's happy, because she often tells us that she wants us to think for ourselves, and that she loves us unconditionally no matter what, even if we don't agree with her. That is a powerful thing to have.

My dad let us do our own thing. He had expectations of us, but they were good expectations. He never made petty rules that micromanaged our choices. He was always there for us with support, but he always said in certain respects, you need to do this yourself. He taught us the value of self-sufficiency.

Even with the extended family, we're very tight-knit. I'm sorry you have to deal such pettiness and pressure in your own families. :frustrating:
 
  • Like
Reactions: pinkrasputin

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,625 Posts
I know I'm not Fi, but I'm Ti, and the introverted judgments share some attitudinal similarities.

I like being around my family. I was never asked to "sacrifice" for the family...I was raised to be strong-minded and think for myself. My INFJ mom had a lot to do with this, and so did my ISTP dad in his own way.
That is sort of my mindset. If I ever help the growth in others, they will be efforts towards making them perceive the world in a way that will practically help them. My mother was good at teaching me things and could understand me the best. After all, we are the same type. "Use your head." was something she used to commonly tell me.

There were obviously things in the family that I didn't like doing and would complain about all the time, but I would follow along in the end. I hardly did any extreme rebellion because I knew I belonged to the household and that place mattered to me the most. Since leaving for college, it's been difficult moving myself along because college is almost completely unstructured. I don't have my family (figuratively speaking) anymore either :sad: I can't imagine what life will be like out of college... More emptiness?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
818 Posts
HandiAce, you can create your own family from friendships. Find what you love to do and make friends there, would be one way. There's also volunteer work. Even the type of job you do can be more family oriented. Sooner or later you'll likely get married and have your own family, and even adopt.

It's always difficult to picture close friends when you don't have them, but it doesn't mean they aren't out there waiting for you. You just need to go through the steps to friendship, like we all do in order to feel connected. It can literally change from one week to the next - you can be lonely and depressed, and then even a small change can show you that you're finally making a life that's to your liking. :happy:

I wanted to add something to what I said earlier. I don't feel any level of comfort from following traditions. My comfort comes from expanding outward and newness and change. My husband, an Enneagram 6 INTJ, can't understand how anyone can derive comfort from change, so I guess it helps to be an Ne to understand. I can watch SJ people in his and my families gaining comfort from traditions, but I can't feel it, just as they can see that I love new ideas and activities but they can't feel it. There's nothing inherently better about any type - our needs are equally important.
 

·
MOTM Nov 2010
Joined
·
10,402 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
HandiAce, you can create your own family from friendships. Find what you love to do and make friends there, would be one way. There's also volunteer work. Even the type of job you do can be more family oriented. Sooner or later you'll likely get married and have your own family, and even adopt.

It's always difficult to picture close friends when you don't have them, but it doesn't mean they aren't out there waiting for you. You just need to go through the steps to friendship, like we all do in order to feel connected. It can literally change from one week to the next - you can be lonely and depressed, and then even a small change can show you that you're finally making a life that's to your liking. :happy:

I wanted to add something to what I said earlier. I don't feel any level of comfort from following traditions. My comfort comes from expanding outward and newness and change. My husband, an Enneagram 6 INTJ, can't understand how anyone can derive comfort from change, so I guess it helps to be an Ne to understand. I can watch SJ people in his and my families gaining comfort from traditions, but I can't feel it, just as they can see that I love new ideas and activities but they can't feel it. There's nothing inherently better about any type - our needs are equally important.
Damn. You are so so lucky. But I can tell he is too. :wink:

And yes, newness is comfort. I love starting something fresh. But I can see how traditions can offer other people stability. I also believe 'rites of passage' are very important.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
818 Posts
Damn. You are so so lucky. But I can tell he is too. :wink:

And yes, newness is comfort. I love starting something fresh. But I can see how traditions can offer other people stability. I also believe 'rites of passage' are very important.
Traditions are important, and help keep society and any group together. If everyone was like me, there wouldn't be any society because we'd all be like cats, heading off in our own direction. :laughing: But society would stagnate without types willing to let go of tradition.

My husband is borderline S/N so I now spend every darn holiday with relatives. :tongue: :wink:
 

·
MOTM Nov 2010
Joined
·
10,402 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Traditions are important, and help keep society and any group together. If everyone was like me, there wouldn't be any society because we'd all be like cats, heading off in our own direction. :laughing: But society would stagnate without types willing to let go of tradition.

My husband is borderline S/N so I now spend every darn holiday with relatives. :tongue: :wink:
I was going to say that my experience dating an INTJ never showed me that he was very much into traditions. He was always interested into trying new things and opening up his mind. We both weren't big on going home for the holidays. We complained about it all the time. We both weren't really into holidays, now that I think about it.

However, he was Jewish so there were many traditional things we did. But that is more because he knew how excited I was to learn their traditions. But he let them lapse all the time. I was the one trying to get him to go back to his traditions because I found them so fascinating. But he was a very independent "walk to the beat of his own drum" kind of guy. I don't believe he cared much for traditions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,124 Posts
Could you explain this more? I really believe this is where my ex ESFJ and I had a clash. I heard a similar complaint from him yet, I don't like telling people how they feel. I would like to see it more objectively, if you will explain. I never felt like I was telling him how he thought. But I often pointed out his inconsistencies in his logic or when he was not staying with the subject at hand. He jumped around a lot.
I run into this with Te people too. They will disregard my conclusions saying they aren't valid, or I'm not qualified to reach a certain conclusion because I'm not a professional in the area in question (ie Doctor) or haven't been schooled in the subject. In my view, Ti+Ne is an information sponge and I learn alot about alot of things outside of school. It is annoying and can be upsetting to run into this. When I'm certain about something, I usually am right. But it's like I have to prove myself each time!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
818 Posts
I was going to say that my experience dating an INTJ never showed me that he was very much into traditions. He was always interested into trying new things and opening up his mind. We both weren't big on going home for the holidays. We complained about it all the time. We both weren't really into holidays, now that I think about it.

However, he was Jewish so there were many traditional things we did. But that is more because he knew how excited I was to learn their traditions. But he let them lapse all the time. I was the one trying to get him to go back to his traditions because I found them so fascinating. But he was a very independent "walk to the beat of his own drum" kind of guy. I don't believe he cared much for traditions.
When my husband took the official MBTI, his S and N were exactly equal, which makes him N. I've asked him many questions about how he thinks and as far as I can tell, he is Ni. But the fact that he spends quite a bit of time in S, combined with the J, could help explain his interest, or the fact that he's an Enneagram 6 who puts his security onto his family could be part of it. Other than the family situation, he is very independent.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top