Wow...My computer started fucking up after I had typed almost all of this post and I had to shut it off. Thank the PerC gods, it saved :laughing:
Well, I'm getting off topic in a discussion in which I try to understand the functions better. I'm not totally sticking with the original topic, sorry lol. And this is probably gonna be disorganized and scattered and perhaps completely wrong or confusing, but...:
Just because certain things make you feel deeply, doesn't mean to say you always feel. For me, there's a time and a place. I feel deeply when I am in my own space, and when it involves something very specific that speaks to me. To be honest, I dont always know how I feel and think about things, which sometimes makes me think Fe is more a part of my mindset than Fi, I don't know. I'll have to get back to you on that
Well, Fi is an introverted function, so it may require you to be allowed to be inside your head to analyze things.
To relate that further to Ti, I sometimes don't know my own opinion of things or how to make sense of them. I don't even know what to think of the concept of God, but it's because there's more that I need to learn before I can decide. If you're not often sure of how you feel about things, maybe it's because you look for total clarity in Fi ideas. With Ne, I think that Ji is almost like putting pieces of a puzzle together that makes sense and presents a clear picture. Those puzzle often have MANY pieces. Everything you take in with your Ne is fit into that puzzle. Getting the clear Ji picture is a matter of rearranging pieces as you get new information. I'm not totally sure, but it may be a different kind of process for INPs. That's just my understanding of Ne-Ji.
When you take something internal and external, and value it... through a mechanism that is intrinsic to your core; so intrinsic, you do not recognise how and why you value certain things over others (although you can rationalise it; e.g. I believe in... being kind to people, because people should be treated with dignity, It results in 2 way respect, which leads to better efficiency and harmony in the environment, which leads to sharing and peaceful dialogue, which leads to etc etc etc) what you believe in becomes tied to your ego; who you are.
Your description of treating people with dignity is where I kinda get confused as I think that Fe-users sometimes have those same views, but perhaps for different reasons. I may treat people kindly even if I don't respect them, but it's not about a value and it's much more basic an idea. Depending on the situation, it may be for ease of communication or because they didn't do anything to deserve my unfriendliness.
This is not something all infps' readily share (and indeed, with fi-doms, all beliefs and values will never totally be exposed to the outside world) because it's personal. When Te comes about, that's when the internal starts interacting with the external more, and perhaps through this vector many values can be expressed (even enforced).
And these things are hard to share because you want them to be clearly communicated and respected, right? I'd say it's the same thing with my own ideas as I want people to be able to clearly grasp what I'm trying to say, and it irritates me when people don't get them and then start diluting them. I have abstract thoughts in my head that are not always easy to articulate.
But I find it interesting that most basic Ti descriptions talk about how Ti-users wish to clearly communicate their thoughts, but that's not really added to the Fi descriptions. I think that Ti might be associated with seeing the subtle differences in language meaning or using Fe to determine how things might be perceived by others, but for the most part, Ti is just as personal as Fi and that's the driving force in aiming for clarity. Although, admittedly, I sometimes use broad terms just so that I can get as broad responses as possible.
And I've read that Fi-Te might lead someone to base decisions and actions around their Fi values. Or it may lead you to organize your life around those values. Someone argued that Lady Gaga was a J because she had a plan to change the music world. But that seems like something that could also be driven by Fi-Te in an xxFP.
Some infps' (particularly enneatype 4s') believe and value self expression, and not holding back. Other types; 1s',2s',5s',9s', are less inclined to be vocal about their values and beliefs, because perhaps they value the harmony in the environment, or don't feel strongly enough about some issues, over self expression. For some infps', free expression might be their highest value. For other infps, self expression might be a value they don't hold highly.
Regarding this, I remember when Lilrulin(that's her name, right?) mentioned that Fi was the reason that INTJs are concerned with honesty and straightforwardness. But it's obvious that some stronger Fi-users are also concerned with external harmony and may hold back.
I think that the Ji functions are both very personal and are the basis for individuality in these types.
I sometimes hold back my ideas only because I don't want people to shit on them, as I mentioned. Sometimes I make my logical decisions, but I don't want people to start trying to make my decisions for me, so I opt to just keep them to myself and go my own path. But if I think my ideas will be respected, I will express them.
Maybe an Fi-user keeps their ideas to himself/herself because they don't want people to start trying to invalidate them. But if you feel as if people will keep off of your ass, you may express them.
Another interesting thing that I was reading in some older thread was that xxTJs tend to be very outwardly efficient and systematic in their approach. But they are more 'P-ish' internally. xxTPs have a very systematic, but appear extremely scattered on the outside. I'm trying to see if that could relate to xxFJs and xxFPs. For instance, an xxFP may be more driven and aware of what they want out of life than an xxFJ. The xxFJ may appear more like they are working toward something while the xxFP may appear like they aren't working toward something, even if they are. Does that make sense?
In regards to other peoples emotions, I have mentioned before that sometimes I feel really overwhelmed. I may be first a feeler, but I don't go around always being emotive. I'm very stoic at home, more stoic than my istp father. It's different around friends though. I understand and empathise people, because I really think about it; it's a very active process that I take control of. Sometimes it just happens naturally, but most of the time, I have to actively (which means; put effort into) understand the 'other', through reasoning, putting myself in their shoes and accepting their position. I'm naturally very aware of other people, and I am intune with their emotions. When people come at me with their emotions, I sometimes feel perplexed, but I will very rarely act with hostility to them or judge them for it. While they perplex me, I respond to that by looking internally to understand them. And respond appropriately.
Are these some of the times in which you strive to clearly understand peoples' perspectives?
To sum, things that are intrinsically held as good and valuable are difficult to express for some. When I express myself, I find myself relying on Ne; putting ideas into connections, ideas, metaphors etc. It may further be hard to express because one is not used to it (that is a problem for me), because there are no words for intense feelings, because values are sacred to the individual...
I don't relate Fi to emotions(I know that I did mention the word emotions once in the OP, though), but to something subjective and human. It seems as if subjective views and ideas are treated the same way by Fi-users that logical ideas and interpretations are treated by me. I want to understand them as well as I can. I don't need external validation for my logical views as that seems like it would just devalue them. I do respect other ideas, but only as far as I can judge them. Do you treat Fi matters the same way?
As for Fe, I don't think that I inherently know how I view things on that same level. I don't often know exactly how I feel about people or situations. It's a matter of looking at typical responses to certain things and seeing if those responses reign true in me. In that way, I need external validation.
Also, I approach things with my Ti attitude in the interest of understanding as much as I can and with the awareness of many, many variables and things to take into account in my analysis. Could Fi almost be seen the same way? I know that INTPs are typically considered to be overly analytical. Are INFPs the same way, but with Fi? I'm not really sure if the same could be asked for ISPs, because it seems as if that analysis thing would be more of a Ji-Ne thing.
My idea of understanding, is understanding completely, to the point of where I see their perspective very clearly, and I can pin point exactly where it's coming from, how and why.
I was talking about how Ne-Ji seems like a puzzle and I was also relating the way Fi-users value peoples' thoughts and perspectives the way I value ideas. I'm not completely sure if that's an Ne+Ji thing or if that's true for everyone with every xxxP, but I honor different ideas or perspectives provided there is some kind of reasoning. I don't judge things until I get the reasoning. I think this is where Je and Ji split. For instance, my mom is an INFJ and she tends to judge things ethically without looking at reasoning. My sister's an INTJ and she tends to judge things logically without looking at reasoning. She might mention that something another person did was stupid, then I'll come off and start asking her about hypotheticals that would invalidate her judgment of that thing as 'stupid'. Then she'd say that the conversation is stupid and wonder what the use of it is. This is how we butt heads because I'm more interested in the clarity and understanding than a clear application or outer efficiency. It's more about how things make sense with the addition of many little variable that make it what it is. I think that Fi is the same thing, but with different variables and subjects.
