[WintersFlame]

Or is this a myth?

Because I have a hard time confidently stating or assigning right or wrong to situations. But I think I am strong Fi dominant for this reason- I can feel right or wrong when it comes to what I want. For example, people pushing me to care about my job or pushing me to participate in something that has absolutely no meaning behind it.

But even then, I'm still not too sure if I'm right or wrong. I'm constantly questioning if the feeling is right or wrong. Especially because right and wrong doesn't exist.

So exactly what does it mean when it's said on multiple websites that Fi feels strongly right from wrong. Do you, Fi users, confidently feel you know right from wrong?

 

[Turi]

Maybe my Fi is shithouse, I don't know, but I see it more like good/bad, than wrong/right.

When I'm pushed to do something, like at work right now - micromanaged to the hilt, forced to say certain things etc - a part of me definitely feels it's "wrong", no doubt. A stronger part of me, however, feels it's "good".
So it's like a good wrong? I don't see right and wrong and good and bad as the same thing, and I for one would attribute my Fi to good/bad.

I'm sure people with a preference for Fi dominant have a more intricate relationship with Fi than I do, I feel my understanding of it is severely limited, though I do feel I can apply this understanding to practically everything ever, and condense everything ever attributed to Fi as "good/bad" essentially.

You mention being pushed into something that has no meaning behind it - what do you mean?
Can you elaborate?

Because this is what I'm being forced into at work - I work in telesales, it's not the most meaningful job on the planet, however the way I'm being micromanaged, as much as I disagree with it, makes sense and I can see past my disdain for it.
I know it's going to develop my skills, I know more sales = more hours + bonuses, I know this = more money for myself and my family, and I know more money = ticking off boxes we need to tick off, so we can all start feeling more mentally healthy and less financially stressed.

So it's like, I feel good/bad, but I'm not bound by these feelings and can separate them from real world actions, and am not blinded by them to the degree they stop me from seeing the positives in things I feel negatively about.

I believe right and wrong definitely exist though and I confidently feel one way or the other about things.


I hope some people who prefer Fi dom or aux jump in with their 2p and elaborate extensively (I'd expect nothing less), because this is an interesting topic and Fi is somewhat of a mystery to me, always wanting to learn more about it.
I've got this feeling there's an entire world of Fi that I'll never be able to understand.

 

[KillinIt]

I'm an ISFP so I'm Fi dom and for the most part I don't see things as right and wrong. I'm not really interested in morals or ethics, more what I personally find enjoyable or not enjoyable or what makes be feel good. I never really related to the whole idea of Fi being all about morals and values because it's not something I ever think about or even feel strongly about, I couldn't tell you what my 'values' are. I am interested in just doing what I want and learning about who I am (my strengths, talents and interests) and trying to get it all to harmonise which I think is Fi

 

[frostedfields]

Turi asked and I am answering

I like to describe the INFJ as the "world idealist" and the INFP as the "person idealist." As an INFP, I have a strong sense of right/wrong or good/bad but it's very limited in scope to my own self, my experiences, and those who I feel are experiencing similar pain/wrong-doing. We aren't the crusaders against global evil that some types are! I just want myself to be the best possible, and for everyone else to be their own unique best as well.

I do relate to your OP in a way. In grad school, you could not pay me to care about academia. If people around me talked about how wonderful it was, it only made me hate it more. I knew it was not right for me. Our sense of right/wrong or good/bad can be a bit more subjective. It's not limited to big philosophical morality topics.

We are pretty chill until our values are degraded/invalidated. My inner fire-bender comes out and it's scorched earth. Over the years I've learned to temper it. Just pay attention to your thoughts and opinions through the day or when you're surfing the web - opinions root from interests. For example, I love Star Wars and I have strong opinions on certain aspects of it, because I care about what it means to me and other people. Is this a black/white earth-shattering morality issue? Heck no. It's a fictional universe and our world would go on without it, but it still means something to me so I have opinions on it.

You may be lucky in that your personal values aren't often invalidated. Alternatively, you may be in a life-phase where your other functions are stronger and your Fi is repressed.

I hope this helps! I haven't finished my coffee yet so I hope this is clear

 

[Krayfish]

Some do, some don't, it all depends on the placement of the Fi and likely the enneagram combination of the individual. A strong feeling of right and wrong, however, isn't inherently Fi. Fi is just subjectively looking at ones values, feelings, and interpretations, so you could have a Fi user who states that value/opinion/ect set "A" is right and just while value/opinion/ect set "B" is incorrect and immoral and, just as commonly, have a Fi user that feels that value/ect set "A" works for them and makes the most sense to them, but doesn't really make it "correct" because other people can have other opinions, which would be the Fi focus on individuality. This situation also applies to Fe, although the reasoning would be difference due to subjective/objective emotions difference. A good way to plot this difference would probably be to look at the enneagram combination, as a 1 fixer would probably fit into the first category and a 9 fixer into the second (8 would probably be somewhere in between).

I'm probably an ENFP 9w1 sp/so (although some would debate I'm an ENTP and others an INFP) and even with Fi in a high position, I do not feel right and wrong very strongly or clearly. I'm a fan of analyzing things and have a bad habit of spinning myself in circles when it comes to most things, so instead of deciding whether something is "right" or "wrong," I enjoy keeping most things in the gray zone. Even in situations where it would be appropriate to deem something as right or wrong, I still like to break it down into its parts and tend to see things as a combination between good and bad. On the rare occasion that I do deem something "wrong" or "right"/"good" or "bad," I don't usually feel confident in being the judge and am quick to change my views if relevant information that I deem to make sense appears. Still, I have things that I deem "right" and "wrong" only when specifically applied to me (ie. The acceptability of an action, whether or not to follow a practice, ect.). I suppose that's the aspect which makes me Fi (or so I believe).

 

[psyche]

To me it feels like the part of you that wants to do something for your own reasons...and that's about it. Fe does value individuality, but it seems like fe users would be more likely to say, "You should do what you want to do...for example, so-and-so does this even though it's unconventional, and I believe it's okay to be unconventional." A fi user would be a lot less likely to even notice something was unconventional or that someone else...or the fi user themselves...was doing something unconventional. Or maybe I could substitute the word "unconventional" with "unaccepted" on some level. I feel like a fi user would say, "I want to do this-or-that" or "I like such-and-such"...and that's kind of it. You can see why fi users tend to be so much more flat-faced I guess, lol.

I feel like te comes in when the fi user is pushed too hard to do something they don't want to do. It's not that fi is not flexible...I imagine one of fi's values would typically be to live and let live, to at least some degree...but I mean, it's firm. It wants what it wants, really. So if the fi user is not allowed enough freedom to follow their own path or they've bent too much, the te...feels horrible. Sigh, te is hard. It's the part of you that wants to push back when you feel pushed, or at least that's how it feels to me.

By contrast, I think a fe user might utilize ti to explain to themselves, privately, why it is crucial to follow their heart's desire rather than accommodating everybody else as usual? I don't know, I am certainly not a fe/ti user...but that's kind of how it looks to me. Fe/ti feels gentler than fi/te to me overall, it's just so accommodating... Though I do believe fi/te is valuable for the example it sets to live in accordance with one's values and to quite instinctively allow others the same freedom... I feel like, under stress, fi/te looks like a bully and fe/ti looks manipulative, to some degree.

 

[00Hikaru00]

Fe does value individuality, but it seems like fe users would be more likely to say, "You should do what you want to do...for example, so-and-so does this even though it's unconventional, and I believe it's okay to be unconventional."

This is quite right. When people ask me for advice, I commonly tell them, "As long as it makes you happy". This is provided their happiness isn't riding on someone else's grief.

 

[nep2une]

I can say I, as some who has been under the assumption of being a Fi dom (I somewhat doubt it lately), definitely do. And I seek out situations and topics all the time that I can practice assigning judgments to. And I'm very quick to decide on a judgment or lean one way over the other - Though not always. Sometimes it's so complicated I fall into more of a moderate position and find myself both agreeing and disagreeing at the same time with people on both sides of an issue.

As Krayfish mentioned above (I'm on mobile so I'm not really aware of how to tag or whatever), enneagram likely has something to do with it. My tritype is 641 which I know is known for being rather moralistic, and I would say I fit into the first example of a Fi user that they mention.

Though I can say it doesn't seem like I always was like this. When I was a bit younger, like high school and below, I think I viewed things in too much of a grey area for my own good and didn't have much skill at assigning judgments. I can say I was the same about not wanting to participate in things I wasn't personally interested in and not budging even if people tried to convince me otherwise. But I guess these days I would like to care more for once.

 

[Miss Basura]

As an ISFP, I have more black-and-white morality than feeling right or wrong.

 

[Jewl]

Maybe my Fi is shithouse, I don't know, but I see it more like good/bad, than wrong/right.

When I'm pushed to do something, like at work right now - micromanaged to the hilt, forced to say certain things etc - a part of me definitely feels it's "wrong", no doubt. A stronger part of me, however, feels it's "good".
So it's like a good wrong? I don't see right and wrong and good and bad as the same thing, and I for one would attribute my Fi to good/bad.

I'm sure people with a preference for Fi dominant have a more intricate relationship with Fi than I do, I feel my understanding of it is severely limited, though I do feel I can apply this understanding to practically everything ever, and condense everything ever attributed to Fi as "good/bad" essentially.

You mention being pushed into something that has no meaning behind it - what do you mean?
Can you elaborate?

Because this is what I'm being forced into at work - I work in telesales, it's not the most meaningful job on the planet, however the way I'm being micromanaged, as much as I disagree with it, makes sense and I can see past my disdain for it.
I know it's going to develop my skills, I know more sales = more hours + bonuses, I know this = more money for myself and my family, and I know more money = ticking off boxes we need to tick off, so we can all start feeling more mentally healthy and less financially stressed.

So it's like, I feel good/bad, but I'm not bound by these feelings and can separate them from real world actions, and am not blinded by them to the degree they stop me from seeing the positives in things I feel negatively about.

I believe right and wrong definitely exist though and I confidently feel one way or the other about things.


I hope some people who prefer Fi dom or aux jump in with their 2p and elaborate extensively (I'd expect nothing less), because this is an interesting topic and Fi is somewhat of a mystery to me, always wanting to learn more about it.
I've got this feeling there's an entire world of Fi that I'll never be able to understand.

You know, I don't often trace how I evaluate stuff to just feeling whether it is "right" or "wrong". That's not typically how I go about things. I often have to talk about things or think about things that weighed on me for a while - I have to think about what gave me some kind of "feeling" about whatever it is I'm evaluating. It feels like trying to order constellations among a vast night sky, pick out the ones that have a certain look and feel together. (If some of that seems like I'm touching on some Ne, well. It probably is. Often I'm relating ideas that also happen to give me a certain feeling, or something I'm feeling reminds me of some other thing... so, it's all Ne+Fi working together.)

It's less like going through various situations and feeling it is merely "right" or "wrong", "good" or "bad". Something gives me a kind of feeling, so I start to feel the weight of whatever that is. I have this idea of Fi being like turning a stone over from one hand to the other, getting an idea of its feel and weight, how it feels to you. Usually I'll ponder stuff - maybe some interaction I had with a client at work - and I'll talk to my husband about certain things and try to articulate just what about it felt so heavy, so significant, I could just feel the significance of it - to me. It's funny how truly subjective it is. And I kind of chase after that "inner intensity" for a while.

Anyways, I have a very hard time doing work that feels meaningless to me. Something that has no value, no weight... it's tough to put up with. Similarly, something that has no further potential that feels stagnant and dead - the last thing that would chain me to something like that would at least be finding some piece of value or meaning in it, but if that's not there, then it's nothing but a prison.

 

[Aelthwyn]

I have always had a strong sense of right and wrong or good and bad, but at the same time I don't see the world in black and white, morals are quite complicated and I don't expect my opinions to be shared by everyone.

 

[L P]

Yes, I am an INFP and yes right and wrong I used to think was very easy to identify for everybody, but that was before I knew MBTI, but yes right and wrong is very clear to me.

 

[mushr00m]

Not necessarily, there are usually shades of grey.

 

[Turi]

You know, I don't often trace how I evaluate stuff to just feeling whether it is "right" or "wrong". That's not typically how I go about things. I often have to talk about things or think about things that weighed on me for a while - I have to think about what gave me some kind of "feeling" about whatever it is I'm evaluating. It feels like trying to order constellations among a vast night sky, pick out the ones that have a certain look and feel together. (If some of that seems like I'm touching on some Ne, well. It probably is. Often I'm relating ideas that also happen to give me a certain feeling, or something I'm feeling reminds me of some other thing... so, it's all Ne+Fi working together.)

It's less like going through various situations and feeling it is merely "right" or "wrong", "good" or "bad". Something gives me a kind of feeling, so I start to feel the weight of whatever that is. I have this idea of Fi being like turning a stone over from one hand to the other, getting an idea of its feel and weight, how it feels to you. Usually I'll ponder stuff - maybe some interaction I had with a client at work - and I'll talk to my husband about certain things and try to articulate just what about it felt so heavy, so significant, I could just feel the significance of it - to me. It's funny how truly subjective it is. And I kind of chase after that "inner intensity" for a while.

Anyways, I have a very hard time doing work that feels meaningless to me. Something that has no value, no weight... it's tough to put up with. Similarly, something that has no further potential that feels stagnant and dead - the last thing that would chain me to something like that would at least be finding some piece of value or meaning in it, but if that's not there, then it's nothing but a prison.

Interesting - could you do work that had no future potential and felt stagnant and dead, if it meant the actual work itself was something you truly loved doing?
Perhaps, conforming to a 9-5 job with no real long term prospects - yet, your position has you doing doing your #1 hobby?

There's an example in The MBTI Manual by Lenore Thompson of an ENFP called Jake, who practically goes through the same thing - he loses his job and almost his marriage because he feels the world is basically suffocating him and forcing him to do things he doesn't want - repress his Ne (forced deadlines on his work etc micromanaging, his wife wanting him home at X time).. and his Te steps in and basically confirms and justifies his suspicions.

His Te is focused on the outside world - doesn't check in with Jake himself, it just rationalises his own feelings and thoughts about what's going on outside of himself, so he doesn't have to man up and get his shit together - a defence mechanism.

Then he goes for away for a while, and while he's away, his Fi steps back in and starts thinking about what's really important to him - his writing, his wife etc, so from there, he decides to get a new job and get his life back on track - he needed to check in with himself and see what his own values were to get himself out of the rut, so to speak.

So he finds a 9-5 job that feels a little restrictive - now he has to wake up at a certain time, adhere to the rules of the institution etc, but he's doing something that he loves and sees value in - so he's okay with being restrained a little bit for this - he basically shifts from using Te purely defensively, to using it more positively in conjunction with Fi to create some kind of order and rules/guidelines within his own brain.

He had to learn to apply his Te to himself, not others.

Any of that click with you? I paraphrased the whole thing, hopeful I didn't miss any vital details that might make it make sense.

 

[Jewl]

Interesting - could you do work that had no future potential and felt stagnant and dead, if it meant the actual work itself was something you truly loved doing?
Perhaps, conforming to a 9-5 job with no real long term prospects - yet, your position has you doing doing your #1 hobby?

There's an example in The MBTI Manual by Lenore Thompson of an ENFP called Jake, who practically goes through the same thing - he loses his job and almost his marriage because he feels the world is basically suffocating him and forcing him to do things he doesn't want - repress his Ne (forced deadlines on his work etc micromanaging, his wife wanting him home at X time).. and his Te steps in and basically confirms and justifies his suspicions.

His Te is focused on the outside world - doesn't check in with Jake himself, it just rationalises his own feelings and thoughts about what's going on outside of himself, so he doesn't have to man up and get his shit together - a defence mechanism.

Then he goes for away for a while, and while he's away, his Fi steps back in and starts thinking about what's really important to him - his writing, his wife etc, so from there, he decides to get a new job and get his life back on track - he needed to check in with himself and see what his own values were to get himself out of the rut, so to speak.

So he finds a 9-5 job that feels a little restrictive - now he has to wake up at a certain time, adhere to the rules of the institution etc, but he's doing something that he loves and sees value in - so he's okay with being restrained a little bit for this - he basically shifts from using Te purely defensively, to using it more positively in conjunction with Fi to create some kind of order and rules/guidelines within his own brain.

He had to learn to apply his Te to himself, not others.

Any of that click with you? I paraphrased the whole thing, hopeful I didn't miss any vital details that might make it make sense.

Well, it just depends on what "stagnant and dead" meant to me.

See, just because I feel like I won't be able to move up in my workplace doesn't mean I'll feel suffocated. But I do feel suffocated if it's doing a lot of the same things, a lot of dry planning-y things... routine. Right now I do shift work, and I basically come in on whatever shifts they need me to fill. I work 8 hour shifts. I like it a lot. I like how I might be called into work just on the fly. And my work is with people - very heavy on interaction. To me, this is what draws me - I love to wonder about people. I see people as having potential. And so I love working with them. That and the very idea that a small interaction could drastically change the course of someone's life.

So even though some people might consider it rigid, I find it a very flexible sort of work. Maybe if I had the same sort of job Jake had, I wouldn't be able to deal with that so well. I would probably have a hard time sticking with it.

 

[Sybow]

I strongly feel whats right or wrong, but only to my own morals and standards.
I do have an idea of whats right and wrong in general, but I don't really 'feel' it. Those are just things I know are wrong or right.

Like, if someone gets punched and he punches the other guy back, I don't feel wrong about it. I just feel like karma has served. Idk.. kind of hard to explain to be honest

 

[heroindisguise]

No, I don't think so. I often have gut feelings about right and wrong), but it has to be validated against reasoning. I sometimes have an almost violent internal reaction when I see something that transgresses human value, for example abuse towards the old and weak, but don't we all? I mean, this is instinct - gut feelings are but one of the instruments in the hidden and ancient repository of human beings. It is needed for sympathy and empathy, which most living beings possess.

I experience Fi as being concerned about the larger concepts in life; concepts that are significant to the human condition. Maybe Fi can be interpreted to be concerned with what is "right" and "wrong", but only does so in a higher plane that is significantly more abstract. Yes, it can manifest concretely, and be concerned about the "smaller" things, but most of the times it's just determining whether something is important to humans, how is it important, why is it important so on and so forth. Importance, significance etc. are all very arbitrary concepts, which means it's difficult to be sure of absolutes, in this case right and wrong. Additionally, the world isn't black and white - life happens within a context, and most things require context to be interpreted accurately. In this manner, a lot of greys can be interjected to any dilemma. It is natural to not be confident about assigning right from wrong (save from certain extreme situations like murder).

Sometimes What I think right or wrong, is also highly personal. It's mostly for me, and I don't try to impose it on others. A lot of the times I don't even care much, since many situations don't have a clear wrong or right, or even require any such judgment. For example: You want to work a 9-5? Sure. You want to quit your CEO job and go work as a waitress? Sure. What is important is that your choice can help you achieve your potential in healthy, sustainable ways. There is always a bottom line that is meaningful, and it precludes what the majority thinks you are supposed to do, or what I think you should do. There's nothing that can be considered right or wrong here since it is not a moral dilemma. It is but a choice in lifestyle. In this manner, Fi-doms can be easy going; I might even say I don't consider right and wrong often because it's simply not applicable to most situations in the day to day, where often things are not extreme.

 

[Drecon]

The thing about 'right and wrong' is that it's not that straightforward. There's the Fi "this is right for me" and the Fe "this is right for others/society". I think we might lack the language to put consistent labels on all of this since the words mean the same thing, but might have different meanings in our brain.

Of course, even what I described above doesn't relly do the truth justice. An Fi-dom might have experience with abuse and feel strongly that abusing people is wrong (for society). It's a stance based on personal values, but projected onto others. An ISFJ might have an upringing with certain values and might have internalized those values, feeling them as if they were personal values.

As always, our brains are weird and messy and it's hard to draw distinctions between certain types of feelings and values.

 

[OrangeAppled]

No. I’m more interested in exploring concepts of stuff like right and wrong than applying judgment. So I’m living in a gray area myself. I explore a lot in my mind, so that experience isn’t even necessary for me to have ideas.

I see a big difference between more universal right and wrongs and what I need (what’s right or wrong for me). And instead of right and wrong, it’s more like a gazillion shades of nuanced meaning.

There’s a reason Jung says that Fi dom don’t look like Feeling types and introverted rationals don’t look rational. In MBTI we are rightly deemed P types because it’s describing a whole attitude that is more exploratory than making decisions or reaching conclusions.
Fi types are seekers.... they may have an emotional response in a moment that something fulfills what they’re seeking or perhaps it violates it. In that way, I may feel “right” as far as something suits me. Something has aligned with my values. But my values aren’t specific stuff so much as themes that I cultivate in life. I’m always exploring what they mean in real terms or how they might manifest.

 

[twistedblade056]

Or is this a myth?

Because I have a hard time confidently stating or assigning right or wrong to situations. But I think I am strong Fi dominant for this reason- I can feel right or wrong when it comes to what I want. For example, people pushing me to care about my job or pushing me to participate in something that has absolutely no meaning behind it.

But even then, I'm still not too sure if I'm right or wrong. I'm constantly questioning if the feeling is right or wrong. Especially because right and wrong doesn't exist.

So exactly what does it mean when it's said on multiple websites that Fi feels strongly right from wrong. Do you, Fi users, confidently feel you know right from wrong?

I consider myself an INFP based on the jungian cognitive functions. Yes, I don't purely feel what is "right" from "wrong"...it is more "like" and "dislike"...."tasteful" and "distasteful"....