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Discussion Starter #1
Fi users.... I know this is your introverted function, and is personal, so thank you in advance.
I would like for us to try to explain Fi to Fe users.
Please keep in mind that Fi or Fe are equal but different. One function is not better than the other. Both are our feelings and values and are precious and give meaning to life. Both deserve to be honored!

Lets do Fi justice, everyone. Bring links to the floor and examples as needed. If the questions below help, then good. If you want to take your own path in explaining, please do.

How do you experience your feelings and values?
What is your experience as you empathize with others?
How do you make decisions based on Fi?

http://personalitycafe.com/nfs-temperament-forum-dreamers/3065-introverted-feeling.html
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
I guess I gotta start us off. I read (again) the link posted above, and besides it being over-focused on the dreary feelings we get from comparing our Fi values to the world's values, I think it's mainly correct. I was gratified by his talk about Fi mothers having a powerful effect on their children's values and a calming sustaining affect. I know this is true, my kids have a strong inner sense of values. How could they not? I drilled them in, I think, if ever my values got crossed. lol. I don't have to worry about their values, they consistently do the right thing because they want to now-- and I get to just sit back and watch them benefit this world.

So how I experience my feelings-- they are personal. I share only with people I trust. I bet that's hard for people here to believe, but I think I've decided to trust the groups I'm familiar with and I have not been led wrong. The people I share with here are amazing and have supported me. Taking a dare to trust most people-- I feel like I CAN, that people are receptive. This makes a happy life for me. I haven't felt betrayed for years. Also I feel better-equipped to communicate with people-- better than I used to feel. This also makes for a happier life since I'm able to find and strengthen my connections and I am able to share my love with MOST people in a way that they find appropriate. This makes me happy.

With empathy... I feel the other person's feelings in my own heart. I admit that if the person comes across as being able to handle their feelings, then I might miss something. I ask lots of questions so I can understand and I try to validate. Otherwise, Te kicks in for me and I try to find solutions. I don't really "pamper" people's feelings I think... which maybe I could work on. If they are in the dredges of self-pity I'm afraid I just usually try to get them out of it. I myself don't want to be wallowing in negative feelings so I have a hard time not just trying to help people get out of them immediately. This means humor, which I think Fe users usually see as stealing the show or detracting from the feelings expressed rather than being the mode OUT. For me humor means accepting and moving on, so it's my usual mode of "helping". There is also physical comfort that I can use with those who seem open to it-- hugs, etc. So when I say "Dredges of self-pity" I am talking about that I have judged their feelings against the ones I would experience (using imagination) in the same situation and if I think how they handled it was unhealthy, I try to help them move on. I don't know if this is pretentious of me, but I think people are grateful for what I offer here. I can't help but think that my Fi has figured this out correctly-- after all I'm a very happy person and empathetic so I think I can help others.

I find that when I compare other people's feelings to my Fi, that this is actually a place of huge strength and creativity. I can see where to encourage them to grow or to shed whatever emotions or values are holding them back-- of course I can only do this in light of my own development, but I think people come to me to get inspired-- so-- Sorry if that sounds pretentious. There has to be a bond for this to work.

And I wish the man had talked about the joy of finding similar ideals and feelings with others. I do not walk around wallowing-- luckily my life is filled with meaningful connections-- some of them on PerC and I'm grateful for this.

The last thing I will talk about is how my Fi isn't likely to change. It might grow slowly, but it seems to me to be about the same Fi I had as a child. I want good things for people. I want good things for this world. The "good" of those things are categorized and labeled by my Fi, so my Fi knows exactly what it is after for this world and people. It's instinctual and solid. I look inside myself for my values (this is Fi) and I do not reach out to others to figure out my own values. I will find out theirs because that's what I DO, is try to understand people and help work with their own values, but theirs will not change mine and will not change the consistency of what I would do in X situation. Fi is extremely consistent when you know what to look for.

Last of all. Fi cannot be crossed for me. I will not betray it. If I am betraying my own values, I'm going to have a really hard time. This has to do with conscientiousness. If I betray myself, or if I express things and people misunderstand me--- like they don't understand my Fi values clearly, then I cannot STAND this. And I won't let myself do things for long that would endanger my values.... hence I need to make some boundaries for myself on being here on PerC and if friends violate my Fi (this basically never happens anymore because I communicate Fi now) then I won't be tolerating that for very long. Fi is my rock, it's my heart, it's who I am, it's why I do what I do, how could I ever betray it? And if the people around me don't understand.... you know... f 'em... there's nothing to be done. It doesn't matter what they think. Fi is completely not swayed. It stands as it's own world and the ruler from which all is measured-- so I follow it or else destroy who I am.
 

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How do you experience your feelings and values?

Values? Easy. I see/hear or otherwise experience something that gets a big reaction out of me. Anger, compassion/empathy, disgust, disbelief, etc. Beyond that, there are things I think really deeply about, over very long periods of time. I struggle to form my opinions on them and how to move forward with such opinions.

Feelings? A gut reaction that my mind immediately begins analyzing the origin of and the point in my psyche that begets the thought-emotion process. Feelings have been my compass for figuring out my subconscious beliefs. Then I attack the shit out of them until my emotional reactions change to the same stimuli. That's when I know my values/beliefs have changed as well.

What is your experience as you empathize with others?

I suppose there's a bit of Si coming into play here, but I'll replay my own experiences in relation to what someone shares with me. And the emotional memory of my experience helps me to connect and empathize. If I haven't experienced others' plights, I use more general estimations of how they would feel. Emotions can get pretty complex, but at the core of it all, they can be simplified and then Ne imagination comes into play to help out with empathizing. I'm pretty sheltered so I can't empathize that deeply with the real struggling moments in life. Regret, guilt, and shame are my specialties though. I can be a savage critical motherfucker at times, but only close friends will ever experience it. I take a moment to filter what I'm thinking and deliver it to suit the person I'm with. If it's what they want to hear, I offer it as best I can.

How do you make decisions based on Fi?

Uh... if I want it, I want it? Lawl. Big life decisions are scary and hard to commit myself to. Then when I do commit, I regret it and feel like crap. Then I adjust and feel so grateful that I went through with it. Lots of spontaneous decisions, I regret most of them too. But the ones I do extensive research on.... heh. I usually come through satisfied.

Last of all. Fi cannot be crossed for me. I will not betray it. If I am betraying my own values, I'm going to have a really hard time. This has to do with conscientiousness. If I betray myself, or if I express things and people misunderstand me--- like they don't understand my Fi values clearly, then I cannot STAND this. And I won't let myself do things for long that would endanger my values.... hence I need to make some boundaries for myself on being here on PerC and if friends violate my Fi (this basically never happens anymore because I communicate Fi now) then I won't be tolerating that for very long. Fi is my rock, it's my heart, it's who I am, it's why I do what I do, how could I ever betray it? And if the people around me don't understand.... you know... f 'em... there's nothing to be done. It doesn't matter what they think. Fi is completely not swayed. It stands as it's own world and the ruler from which all is measured-- so I follow it or else destroy who I am.
This. All of this. Agreed.

I can't wait until I hit 30 or so, this "so-called-magical-age" when I stop giving any fucks for real. I can practice not giving a fuck, and then my sensitivity kicks in, revealing that I'm behaving as if I don't care, but my feelings reveal the truth. I've had a few moments as of late where I've felt attacked... and didn't care. That was the best feeling ever. I noticed it in real time as it was happening like "wow I'm not affected".

I don't know how many times I alternated the close quotation marks and that period just now. Fuck me.

I expect people to not understand me, not because they can't. But because there's not enough time, patience, or willingness to understand. Oh a good example: as a kid I used to talk about all the Disney movies that would show up on the Disney channel back to back and how I really enjoyed them all. They were pretty much the only movies I watched during that time. And someone assumed I only watched it for the female leads. I think at that time it was Hilary Duff and Lindsay Lohan, maybe a few others. I mean... I never thought of it that way, so I denied it, but just the thought of someone bringing that up made me embarrassed and then they continued to insist that's how I felt about it all, and left it at that. Thinking back to it now, those were some painful moments. :laughing:

Now, I don't care. Sometimes I say jarring things just to see how people will react. Wonder if they'll make some interesting assumptions about me. My beliefs/values don't change, so it's all k.
 

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How do you experience your feelings and values?
My feelings comes from within- I introspect myself nonstop, it's a hobby of mine. I am very aware of my own emotions and identity, I don't have problems with knowing how I feel ( and hate it when people tell me how I should feel).
There are certain emotions that I enjoy keeping to myself and some where I don't mind sharing with others
For example- when happy or elated I can be quite cheerful and share my life story with anyone who's willing to listen - when angry i prefer to be alone( I feel better and analyze my emotions better)
I rarely talk about my feelings or emotions until the situation is over- most of the time I'm just sharing to relieve stress or I'm hoping for somebody who can listen and relate. I self deprecate and joke around a lot when sharing a personal problem with somebody -most Fe users ( online and offline) would assume that I'm trying to hide my emotions and would try to be more serious or go as far as holding my hand and say " let me give you a hug , you don't have to share if it is too hard, I understand,". My Enfj friend ( total sweetheart) would give me this loving helpful pity look when I use humor to share a personal situation - when I choose to open up to somebody - the matter is already resolved - seeing people makes me happy and excited hence I'm laughing, humor is my way of sharing a problem and no I'm not hiding it nor am I afraid of emotions or being seen as vunerable .
Values -
I enjoy complimenting people a lot but all my compliments are genuine- I would never lie to make a person feel better, I would never lie about my emotions nor lie when asked for an opinion to make light of a situation , it's against my internal value.
I don't lie about how I feel even when angry or mad at another person- hence when somebody say something they don't mean when they're angry to me- it sent me to confusion and distrust - I don't lie about my feelings /emotions and expect the same of others I guess that's kinda selfish in a way
I don't use emotions to manipulate ( I'm pretty sure I'll be good at it for I understand the people in my life better than they understand me) but the idea of emotional manipulation throws me off - whether or not it's for a good cause - don't ever use emotions to manipulate me- I understand emotions very well and can read right through it.

What is your experience as you empathize with others?
I tend to put myself in that person's place and imagine what outcome is best for their personality type - if I understand the person well then I use my knowledge and experience of what I know about them and help guide them to finding their own answer by asking them questions- I strongly believe that you can't change a person- they must see it within themselves or come to that conclusion however I can inspire one to think more optimistically or introspect themselves more
I'm very emotionally aware and can often time put myself in a person place- visualize I am them and have a sense on what they want . Other people emotions don't effect mine- I may empathize with them at the moment but I can easily isolate a person's problem from my own.
It's easier for me to empathize with a situation I'm familiar with because I can draw it from within and I have a tendency to share similar personal experience when a subject is brought up ( something I recently learned seem selfish to fe users and looking back at it through their lens I can see why they came to that conclusion- however relating and bringing in a familiar situation is my way of opening up and sympathizing.
I've been told that I'm comforting to talk to- I send a relax vibe- I tend to focus directly on one person at a time - and in real life I'm a good active listener( I later learn from my isfp
Bff that I can't focus on more than 2 person at a time , he can't either- we were discussing socialization )

People are often worry about me trusting others too much and warn me. Funny thing is o strongly believe that in order to gain trust in somebody you must trust them first- also perhaps my fi has a b.s. detector- but I'm very aware of who's being fake or genuine towards me, no i didn't let her use me out of stupidity- I'm showing her she can trust me . I believe most people ( not everyone) are more than 60 percent good - hence I avoid judging.
I have never been used or tricked or betrayed by somebody I love - the fi in me can detect what's genuine and fake. Also nobody can harm me for I don't hide anything about myself( I don't scream out my life story to everyone but I don't hide it either- if ask I'll answer)
My ethical values dont change I'll question things if it seems wrong to me . I know where my stance is at because it is always within me . I don't need outside source to tell me what's right or wrong, my opinion doesn't change because of time and the environment around me - If I cannot relate to a situation then it's hard for me to find compassion in it - however I understand well enough not to criticize it .
 
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How do you experience your feelings and values?
I think both in head and in body. As gut reactions, sadness, happiness, etc. Sometimes (many times a day) I feel sick when I encounter the unclean.

Generally, Fi shows me something is pure/impure, good/bad, whenever one's needs are met, whenever vital resources are available, etc.
It also has to do with physical balance and awareness of body.

Generally, it's poignant emotions.


When it comes to values, I store knowledge of them (like a network of past abstractions, emotional reactions, thoughts and knowledge) in my Si, I think.

I often instantly jump from Fi to readiness to Te and Si or bypass Fi entirely, when I already know what I have to do with and have remembered values.

What is your experience as you empathize with others?
I'm not sure. I can't really read people when it comes to their experiences and it's hard for me to put myself in their shoes because they are usually so alien. I guess I can sometimes be non-judgemental and listen about their experiences. Sometimes.
Also, reacting to events they talk about with my Fi.

How do you make decisions based on Fi?
Usually, it's when someone needs help and I for example then weight how much resources I'm willing to commit or whenever I want to be around something depending whenever it's pure or impure, or whenever some act would be virtuous or not. Other functions are probably also seriously involved.
 

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Ooh I love all the responses here already :heart:

How do you experience your feelings and values?
+ FEELINGS

I just know what I feel almost instantly. Lately, my mental conceptualization for the dominant functions has been reflecting on how each one works on an instinctual level, making it very difficult to explain how it functions "exactly" because it's just always there doing it's thing. So in that sense, it is difficult for me to understand how others do not know what they're feeling because I almost always seem to know what I am feeling, and when I don't, I am heavily preoccupied with figuring it out anyway subconsciously, like a machine that is continuously humming away in the background, relating random parts of my everyday life towards developing revelations regarding the truth of my emotions. I am very concerned with the truth of emotion and what's really going on there. My therapist recently told me she knows I am a perfectionist because I always try to address the emotions I am not consciously addressing in each of my sessions :shocked:

Physically, I have noticed that I feel pain in my right arm when I feel the deepest emotional pain, and I feel nervousness in my legs. I am also highly sensitive...it doesn't take much for me to feel teary. Just five minutes ago I was tearing up over an animal video on Facebook, as proof, lol. But I'm selective with my tears, I will cry in a public restaurant without any thought, yet still have yet to cry in front of my closest friends (paradoxes of Fi, man, it's weird). I tend to wallow and retreat when I'm in the midsts of an "emotional storm".

As for positive emotions (I feel like I always forget these), there is no comparison to the feelings of romantic love for me...I could write heaps and heaps about my incredibly limited experiences with it and still have more to say. It's also very easy to conjure up emotions by what I'm thinking about...maybe everyone does that, but I sometimes play with my emotions using my imagination. In that light, I also tend to feel joy from nostalgia, and even have piled joy in the moment knowing I will be nostalgic for the joy in that moment.

Certainly not the best at expressing my emotions, but I am working on that. I think this is a major vice of having high Fi: so many emotions and no where trustworthy enough to put them all.

+ VALUES

My values also tend to form instinctually without me even realizing it, even though I can spot the seeds of their sources from my upbringing and my personal experiences. My values are not set in stone and are constantly evolving, thanks in large part to me Ne finding new information to feed on. I am quite protective of my values in that I sometimes don't make them that apparent (depending on the vibes I get from you) but I will definitely fight to the death when the conversation naturally goes there, with anyone. Values seem to be one of those things where Te can easily barge in and takes over.
I personally think Ne-Te working together in debates is pretty badass :cool:

What is your experience as you empathize with others?
Hmmm, well I like to think of Fi as the philosopher of emotion, analyzing it's every move, cause, and effect with ease...starting with the self, and naturally applying this to others.

While I can instinctually know what I am feeling, it can take time for me to process the whys of it. But once I have it down, it really broadens my ability to empathize with others. I have developed a knack for knowing what others could be feeling. Of course I can never be 100% sure, but I do think having Fi (paired with Ne) makes it quite easy to understand how someone will react or how someone will feel when you know bits about them as a person. Even though this skill is often attributed to Fe and their strength of reading people, I do wonder if Fi is greatly attuned to the "logic" of an emotion, kind of like:

event A + past trauma B = level AB of emotion C (paired with emotions D, P, and G), which I also experienced x years ago during y phase of life

...something like that :p

Within my social circle, I am someone that is often sought out when someone needs to vent and sort through a situation (to the point where it is kind of problematic sometimes and rough on me). I think high Fi lends one to have an incredible amount of patience and understanding with other people, along with the necessary tendency to refrain from judging someone for their experience, because we def know how that feels (bad). So even though we might be kind of awkward at the obligatory comforting hug or words of endless encouragement, I think Fi is soothing in it's own unique way...because we feel things so deeply, it is often not hard for us to understand the emotions of others, especially when our own emotions are not directly involved.

Healthy Fi seems prone to accepting people for who they are, flaws or differences aside, because they have an inherent profound respect for individuality. As NFs, we are also prone to finding people fascinating, always with that itch to learn more about others and how they work.

How do you make decisions based on Fi?
Surprisingly, I actually don't think I make decisions based on my Fi all the time, and it's not because I don't want to. I have a lot of internal conflict between what I "naturally feel like doing" vs. what I presume is the "right thing to do" in a situation. There are many times when these two don't line up. I usually go with the right thing to do. I guess in that sense it's still Fi making that call in a meta way: Fi morals vs. Fi authenticity...who will win this time?

When I do make decisions with Fi, it feels seamless and genuine...it feels AMAZING! I'm making an effort in my life to act more authentically (I know, strange for an INFP haha) and to stop the perfectionist voice in my head that doesn't want to disappoint others, because disappointing them leads to disappointing myself. As to how I do this, I think it's often a deal where I am so full of an emotion that it ends up taking the lead, regardless of all the other related emotions I'll experience afterwards. But I think I need to reflect more on this, tbh.
 

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Hmmm, well I like to think of Fi as the philosopher of emotion, analyzing it's every move, cause, and effect with ease...starting with the self, and naturally applying this to others.

While I can instinctually know what I am feeling, it can take time for me to process the whys of it. But once I have it down, it really broadens my ability to empathize with others. I have developed a knack for knowing what others could be feeling. Of course I can never be 100% sure, but I do think having Fi (paired with Ne) makes it quite easy to understand how someone will react or how someone will feel when you know bits about them as a person. Even though this skill is often attributed to Fe and their strength of reading people, I do wonder if Fi is greatly attuned to the "logic" of an emotion, kind of like:

event A + past trauma B = level AB of emotion C (paired with emotions D, P, and G), which I also experienced x years ago during y phase of life

...something like that :p
I find this really interesting because you conceptualize your Fi almost as Ti, which makes sense since they're both the same process (an introverted judging function), but one is concerned with Feeling while the other is Thinking. I can recognize your "formula" as that is how my mind works through Ti, but I don't apply that to the sphere of my emotions all that much. I tend to think my emotions are more, dare I say, shallow and flaky haha because of how influenced I am by other people's emotions. I'm not sure if that's exactly how I want to say it, but to me, Fi looks as if has a much deeper experience of their own emotions, like how you've color-coded your emotions in your example as if you are drawing your emotions from an artistic palette of Feeling. I think I just express what I'm feeling at the moment, see how others react to it (Was that good? Did they enjoy that?), then react to how others react to me, or I'll even try to create reactions and spark emotions in other people (I want you to feel this particular emotion, so to speak), so it's more like my Fe is in a dance with other people rather than in the process of creating a self-portrait, to continue the artistic metaphor from before. It definitely leaves me quite confused about who I am and where I stand on things, whereas Fi users seem to be quite clear about who they believe they are. Though, I'm not oblivious to how I feel or what I value, but it seems to be more amenable to external influence.

Within my social circle, I am someone that is often sought out when someone needs to vent and sort through a situation (to the point where it is kind of problematic sometimes and rough on me). I think high Fi lends one to have an incredible amount of patience and understanding with other people, along with the necessary tendency to refrain from judging someone for their experience, because we def know how that feels (bad). So even though we might be kind of awkward at the obligatory comforting hug or words of endless encouragement, I think Fi is soothing in it's own unique way...because we feel things so deeply, it is often not hard for us to understand the emotions of others, especially when our own emotions are not directly involved.

Healthy Fi seems prone to accepting people for who they are, flaws or differences aside, because they have an inherent profound respect for individuality. As NFs, we are also prone to finding people fascinating, always with that itch to learn more about others and how they work.
I think this goes back to what I said earlier about Fi and Fe:

On the other hand, Fi-doms, or Fi as a function generally, doesn't really try to affect/influence your emotions in the way that Fe does, and that is part of the reason of their conflict. Fi tends to see themselves and others as self-contained universes (That is, introverted) when it comes to the experience of their emotions. Fi wants to feel what they feel, whatever that feeling is, and you won't be able to change how they feel/believe about something, as it is completely derived internally. The change of one's feeling/valuation of something for a Fi-user can only come from within, which is obviously frustrating to Fe (and to Fi, when Fe tries to change their feelings), or as Jung says, Fi does not adjust to the object.

A Fi-user would never assume they know what's best for another person (unless perhaps a loved one, or close friend), as Tyra Banks does in the above video, because they believe it is up to the specific person, as it is for themselves, to decide. They will listen and empathize with your situation, but I don't think they will actively try to make you feel something different from what you are already feeling; in other words, they won't try to influence your emotions in the way that a Fe-user does.
On the INFJorINFP.com website, they give this example of Fi too:

A Perfect Example of Fi

When I read this, it struck me as an ideal example of introverted Feeling.

Author and lecturer Leo Buscaglia once talked about a contest he was asked to judge.

The purpose of the contest was to find the most caring child.

The winner was a four year-old child whose next-door neighbour was an elderly gentleman who had recently lost his wife.

Upon seeing the man cry, the little boy went into the old gentleman's yard, climbed onto his lap, and just sat there.

When his Mother asked what he had said to the neighbour, the little boy said,

"Nothing, I just helped him cry."
Whereas Fe might say, "Don't cry. I'm here for you," while also giving the person a hug, in an attempt to alleviate the person's pain. It's a little more "intrusive" into people's emotional space, as opposed to how Fi might just allow the individual's feelings to be what they are. My feelings are mine, your feelings are yours.

Fi is such a mysterious function to me, so I'm open to feedback here. I can never get a grasp on how it works, but I appreciate the responses of this thread so far.
 

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Tertiary Fi and here is how it manifest for me. Quoting my post from another thread, so it is not exactly "Fi explained to Fe users", but it might help them understand Fi better.

Tertiary Fi, for me, supposedly and for me is more like... If something rubs me the wrong way, if it goes against my internal values, so to speak, I just write it off of my field of interest entirely, if we are talking about a subject.

Your signature offers an interesting example. Upon knowing Edgar Allen Poe married his 13 years old cousin when he was 27 years old, that just... I know, different times, and... People can come up with very creative ways to justify that questionable behavior, but at any rate, I can't bring myself to enjoy his works, that creepy thing about his life keeps pulsating on the back of my head. I can't turn it off and honestly, why should I?

Or another example, from yet another horror writer (it seems to be a trend?): Stephen King wrote such a tasteless, disgusting gangback scene with kids in IT, giving the dumbest excuse possible for it and because of that scene, I really struggle to give any other of his books a chance, even though I loved The Green Mile — and even such book was filled with weird shit, at times. Sometimes it felt like King was downplaying far too much the crimes committed by Delacroix, a rapist. Probably overthinking here, considering the other rapist in the book was portrayed in a very villainous manner. I think, maybe, he wanted to sell the idea that being such kind of criminal doesn't necessarily make one a bad person, but I can't agree with that.

Then there is Lovecraft, fantastic writer, yet he never even attempted to hide his blatant racism.

I don't go as far as to say those authors are bad authors because I dislike their personal politics or what they have done in their personal lives, but I don't want to partake in the fiction written by these people. A work of fiction is an extension of the person who wrote it, that is my belief. If you write child gangbang scenes, or random masturbation scenes that add nothing to the story (as in Cujo), or if you are a racist or a pedo, I don't want to read your stuff anymore. It is judgmental, and I accept that. When you write something, you should be prepared to be judged by your words, anyways. You should also be prepared for your personal life to be used against you if you get famous. As an aspiring writer, I am okay with that.

On a more brighter note, Fi, for me, is staying true to what I love, regardless of what people think of it. I like it and that is enough. I believe it and whether you believe it or not, doesn't change that, it doesn't even shake my beliefs slightly. You can have your beliefs, too, and unless you are some sort of rape apologist (hardcore example, but I want to make my point clear), I won't ever bother attempting to fight your beliefs.

Honestly, this could possibly be dominant Fi instead. Not 100% sold on my type yet, but ISTJ seems more likely given my high Si At any rate, those are my two cents on Fi in my life.
 

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How do you experience your feelings and values?
I experience my feelings and values on a cognitive and affective level. Cognitively it’s about knowing the things I care about, especially in the long term. This creates a sort of stability, although I constantly have to tweak my values as next insights come into my awareness. These days my personal drive is coming more from Fi, while Ni is more about insight. This allows me to fairly non judgemental because it avoids the illusion of universal values.

On an affective level I experience the stuff that is closer to me, it reminds of the difference between core and outer values. If someone who I am close to needs something I can sort of put myself in their shoes, and feel my way through the situation. It severely moderates what would otherwise would have been a mostly Te response. It changes the way I deliver a message, and makes it easier to make choices that on a cognitive level seem equal but would be felt in a very different way.

What is your experience as you empathize with others?
Cognitive empathy informs me of someone else’s position, and allows me to consider what they stand for, and give what they’re saying fair consideration. This is primarily driven by my own values for reasonable behavior. I have learned the hard way that it’s easy to ignore new information, but generally not helpful at all to close myself.

Affective empathy kicks in when I get closer to people, when I allow myself to experience as best as possible the felt experience of another person. The position of helping then becomes more oriented around the other person. It allows me greater insight, usually at the cost of becoming (emotionally) vulnerable myself. Because I’m quite a sensitive person on the inside, I cannot let everyone through this barrier, I don’t have enough emotional energy nor enough tears for this.

How do you make decisions based on Fi?
My own values inform my sense of right and wrong, which I stick to as best as possible. My values can identify the way forward, especially if I’m cognitively stuck, it sometimes helps to tune into my feelings more. This is a new way of doing things for me, to allow myself to make positive decisions based on Fi, rather than only avoiding things I dislike. It takes more courage than I expected, because it requires to be more directly in touch with my emotions. But so far I’m enjoying the experience, even if occasionally I cannot explain why I’m doing a certain thing beyond “it feels right”.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
@mistakenforstranger. I think you got this right. @fresh, agreed? The only way I can understand what Fe might be like is to think of my tert Te and then inject feelings into it and I think this actually gives me a fairly good picture. We were actually advocating in a discussion on the ENFP forum for INFJs to think of their Ti and then do the same to figure out Fi. Yes, Fi gives a very strong sense of your own values...values you don’t change just because someone else feels/thinks differently.
Fe is a very appreciated skill though, and your description really helped me understand it better too. Thank you,
 

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I was searching for some examples... Here’s the same subject (unrequited love) with Fi expression and (I believe) Fe expression. Let me know if you think I got it right. Both beautiful, relatable, artistic, to any Feeling person (probably could chip through Thinkers too to their tert or inferior function) and my hypothesis is that Fe and Fi need each other, or in any case thrive together.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VjfmP7h3gBw

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zmK1H6EXUYs
 

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I find this really interesting because you conceptualize your Fi almost as Ti, which makes sense since they're both the same process (an introverted judging function), but one is concerned with Feeling while the other is Thinking. I can recognize your "formula" as that is how my mind works through Ti, but I don't apply that to the sphere of my emotions all that much. I tend to think my emotions are more, dare I say, shallow and flaky haha because of how influenced I am by other people's emotions. I'm not sure if that's exactly how I want to say it, but to me, Fi looks as if has a much deeper experience of their own emotions, like how you've color-coded your emotions in your example as if you are drawing your emotions from an artistic palette of Feeling. I think I just express what I'm feeling at the moment, see how others react to it (Was that good? Did they enjoy that?), then react to how others react to me, or I'll even try to create reactions and spark emotions in other people (I want you to feel this particular emotion, so to speak), so it's more like my Fe is in a dance with other people rather than in the process of creating a self-portrait, to continue the artistic metaphor from before. It definitely leaves me quite confused about who I am and where I stand on things, whereas Fi users seem to be quite clear about who they believe they are. Though, I'm not oblivious to how I feel or what I value, but it seems to be more amenable to external influence.
Sorry for the late response...holiday stuff! Wow, that's really interesting to make that Ti connection, I love it! That seems like a really great way to explain Fi, so thank you for pointing that out. They do seem so similar in process, but obviously are quite different in focus. It's funny you mention emotions as an artistic palette because I've made a similar comparison before of INFPs (which I later extended to ISFPs via dominant Fi):



Fun coincidence :proud:

Yeah, as I was writing this, I was wondering if maybe Fe is more "creationist" when it comes to the emotions of "the room", which seems like it can manifest in so many ways...it also seems like it ultimately works to remedy the emotional tone of the self, even if that's not really the intention maybe? Which is fascinating. To me, Fe is emotionally deep through it's strength of connecting with others just by paying attention to other people's emotions and influencing them, especially on a more universal level. Maybe it's so Te of me to point out, but I think it's cool that these functions have different utilities...especially if you think about how empathy works. Some situations naturally warrant one type of nurturing vs. another. Not that we're all so regimented to only dole out one or the other, but I like to think that we're all balancing out each other when considering these types of differences, helping one another figuring out these things :kitteh:

Somehow this turned super kumbaya real quick :laughing: Scanning your most recent post here @Alesha it seems we've reached the same conclusion on this!

On the INFJorINFP.com website, they give this example of Fi too:

Whereas Fe might say, "Don't cry. I'm here for you," while also giving the person a hug, in an attempt to alleviate the person's pain. It's a little more "intrusive" into people's emotional space, as opposed to how Fi might just allow the individual's feelings to be what they are. My feelings are mine, your feelings are yours.
Awe, how cute! That reminds me of the first time my ENFP BFF burst out crying, like a dry heave type of cry. I had only known her a week and I internally panicked for like 5 minutes just heartbreakingly watch her sob away. Talking through it is usually the thing I can offer when life goes awry like that, and thankfully that was enough for my ENFP friend, haha.

Sometimes intrusive is nice, especially when you consider how much oxytocin you get from a simple hug! I appreciate that quality of Fe for sure.

@mistakenforstranger . I think you got this right. @fresh , agreed?
Definitely agreed!

Fi is such a mysterious function to me, so I'm open to feedback here. I can never get a grasp on how it works, but I appreciate the responses of this thread so far.
Everything you've said is spot-on :yeah::yeah::yeah: You have an excellent grasp of Fi! In a way though, maybe I get what you mean since I feel the same of Ni in that sometimes I feel like I totally get it and then other times there are gaps and I don't know what goes in there...haha.
 

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How do you experience your feelings and values?

I experience them when they are being affected, whether threatened or pressured/stressed, but I could never tell you what they are right on the spot. It's a peculiar bodily feeling that forces me into introspection to figure it out, which at times can be difficult when I'm in a position that demands quick-thinking or improvisation. I am not a slow-thinker, but when such feelings come into play, and they have this knack to prioritise themselves over reason, it's like I've boarded the wrong train, and am left to watch the one I "ought" to have taken drift by. Being surrounded by xSTx people, as friends and family, I cannot deny that I feel like a walking paradox, or my brain was implanted backwards at birth.

What is your experience as you empathize with others?

To get poetical, like both persons casted a patronise, and they merged together. There is an odd connection that comes into play, something that I've never been particularly good at describing, and something the other person cannot describe. I'm usually the correspondant for other's miseries, as it feels as if I'm an emotional sponge who absorbs all that gloom from everybody's souls, and somehow I'm left to deal with it myself, like I've performed an exorcism and have to battle the demons in solitude. The other person, in the meanwhile, seems to feel better about themself, and goes on feeling enlightened, as if not having the faintest idea that now I have their burden on my heart, my soul. I don't know why this happens, or even how it happens, but if anything, it's like I'm Jesus performing a sacrifice so all the others can be free. I neither hate this nor love this; but if I succumb to these miserable built-ups, I do feel drained and sluggish, and as my brother once described, "Everywhere you go, you bring depression with you". So, in affect, the very opposite of everything I wrote can take place if I don't bring reason into play, or resurrect soon enough.

As everybody has Fi to some extent, some evidently more used than others, I think Fi-doms can sense that Fi in everybody else once they're accustomed to their own, making them decent counsellors, or 'healers' as I see people writing time to time.

How do you make decisions based on Fi?

By how I feel at that given time. I feel that now I've become quite in-tune with how I feel when my Fi comes into play, and I know how I'm going to feel later if I go against that feeling. Most of that tuning seems to be from trial and error, though, which is probably why some people think INFPs take longer to mature, because with that Fi on the surface, one can feel very vulnerable with no guard or shell to reduce the sudden impact of an error. Furthermore, this makes it troubling when I'm forced to make decisions in the future, because the first thing I do is try to imagine how I might feel in the future, thus having to invent a potential scenario, which in all likelihood will be wrong.

I loathe questions such as, "What are you doing later?" or "What are your plans for today?", particularly when asked as soon as I wake up, because I don't know, and I may never will -- if I don't know the person well, I find it tolerable, but if the person ought to have known me well enough by then, I find it annoying. I go by how I feel at the time: some people have wondered whether I'm bipolar because of this, as it does feel as if I go through one million emotions/feelings a day, but I'm not. If you want to know what I'm doing later, you're better off re-phrasing with something like, "Hey, I'm thinking of seeing a movie at two o'clock, would you care to tag along?" or something: it's so much more liberating when you've given me a scenario, because if I don't have anything at that time, I am likely to say Yes, and once I make a promise, I never break it -- ever.

And please, for your life and possibly my own, don't bother talking to me when I'm sitting by myself with headphones on: I'm listening to music, thus daydreaming or evaluating feelings, so tapping me on the shoulder merely to ask me how I'm doing is not helpful. There are many expression that could come to play here: "Never wake the demons from their nap", "Let sleeping dogs lie", "Never tickle a sleeping dragon". If what you have to say really has no importance, or is merely for you to conquer your boredom, just be lucky we have laws against domestic abuse (jokes).
 
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Fi dominant is almost linked to Ti, it has a strong formula to it, and when something peaks an Fi interest, I will delve deep into the subject like a Ti user would. But it is highly attached to emotions, even if it doesn't always seem like it. For me, a lot of times it is more about what is valued personally, not always sparking an emotional reaction. Fi is not always "on time" with emotions. Sometimes I don't feel anything until I can process it, and then the emotions create deeper emotions. Fi is like an emotional library (especially when linked with Si), with some emotions just resting, dusty & forgotten emotions, but sometimes you wanna look at those old books, and you find yourself cleaning off the pages and viewing the books from a different perspective, as time has passed. Some books are not of interest to you anymore, you have read too many books to find those books of interest, without an emotional attachment, you find yourself cleaning out of the bookcase, to make room for new ones. When those books are gone, they're GONE, but it's definitely a slower process than Fe.
 
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