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Which feeling function can recreate the feelings of others internally through imagining and then act based on that feeling?

Between Fe and Fi which is more likely to pay attention to body language to infer internal feelings?

Assuming the first is Fi, does it use it's imagination/past experience to bring into consciousness the feeling they have had, and then assume that the other party(the one who originally was experiencing the emotion) feels the same? This would hypothetically be the subjective factor? While I suppose Fe doesn't really feel the pain of others, but rather externally acts accordingly?
 

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Which feeling function can recreate the feelings of others internally through imagining and then act based on that feeling?
The former is, indeed, Fi in my own experience. Fe doesn't need to internally validate the feelings of others and relates to others pain and joy without drawing from internal experiences. As a Fi-dom, I relate to others by drawing on my own experiences and "recreating" their feelings inside me, so Fi is more tempered when it relates others I think. Both Fe and Fi possess empathy but it is sourced differently.

To answer your last question, my INFJ husband and an ENFJ I know do act as though they feel the pain of others, as close as one can without being the actual person they are relating to.
 

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Both Fi and Fe can recreate feelings of others internally.

An Fe user will effortlessly do this and apply an extrinsic motivator (outside the person's self) as the cause of the feeling.

An Fi user requires an extra step, because Fi is usually contained within the user.
This step is called projection, and once it's done it applies an intrinsic motivator (within the person's self) as the cause of the feeling.


The accuracy of either's observation is only half correct, because causes of feelings are usually both objectively intrinsic and extrinsic in nature.
 

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Which feeling function can recreate the feelings of others internally through imagining and then act based on that feeling?

Between Fe and Fi which is more likely to pay attention to body language to infer internal feelings?

Assuming the first is Fi, does it use it's imagination/past experience to bring into consciousness the feeling they have had, and then assume that the other party(the one who originally was experiencing the emotion) feels the same? This would hypothetically be the subjective factor? While I suppose Fe doesn't really feel the pain of others, but rather externally acts accordingly?
Feeling according to Jung is evaluation - it is the function that says we sort stuff out based on its worth, how valuable it is. If it is subjective, then it is Fi. If this is done objectively, then it is Fe.

It doesn't have to do with how empathetic or sympathetic you are. Feeling was never supposed to be about emotion. And understanding it as simply being able to read the emotions of others is narrow. Even my INTP husband can read what I'm feeling or even feel what I'm feeling at times. This is a human trait.

Feeling =/= emotional intelligence.

Phew. Sorry. Had to get that off my chest.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Feeling according to Jung is evaluation - it is the function that says we sort stuff out based on its worth, how valuable it is. If it is subjective, then it is Fi. If this is done objectively, then it is Fe.

It doesn't have to do with how empathetic or sympathetic you are. Feeling was never supposed to be about emotion. And understanding it as simply being able to read the emotions of others is narrow. Even my INTP husband can read what I'm feeling or even feel what I'm feeling at times. This is a human trait.

Feeling =/= emotional intelligence.

Phew. Sorry. Had to get that off my chest.
What is it basing it's evaluations on?

Tbh the definitions of the judgement functions with "objective" and "subjective" make little sense to me so mabye you can straighten it out. A thinking function should base their evaluations on logical consistency yes? So where is the subjective force of Ti coming from? Similarly where is the subjective force of Fi coming from? I assume their feelings about things....i.e. it might as well just be feelings.

Then objective makes sense for Te if it goes to facts rather than principles(I guess lol? I mean principles can be objectively true....so....), but an evaluation of something for Fe would have to be both non-thinking/logical, and would have to be objective. Objective how?

Jung says Ti goes "beyond" facts right? Into the imaginary apparently, but I have never noticed that in the moment. It's hard to spot it in yourself surely, but I have NEVER seen a remark on this forum about the subjective side of Ti or where it is originating from, though I have asked and gotten mixed responses.
 

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Which feeling function can recreate the feelings of others internally through imagining and then act based on that feeling?

Between Fe and Fi which is more likely to pay attention to body language to infer internal feelings?
Neither, in both cases. You are anthropomorphizing cognitive functions. They don't "act," "re-create," or "pay attention."
 

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Feeling according to Jung is evaluation - it is the function that says we sort stuff out based on its worth, how valuable it is. If it is subjective, then it is Fi. If this is done objectively, then it is Fe.
What I interpret from the last sentence is, "if you judge a thing's value by yourself it is Fi, if you judge a thing's value by what other people's value judgements are then it is Fe."

If that's the case, I disagree. "Value" or "what something is worth" isn't objective, can't be objective. "Value" doesn't exist in objective reality. If you look at what people generally value and come to a conclusion, you are not making an Fe judgement, it is Fi again. Only this time you are recognizing Fi in other people or groups of people and it is of course born from an intuition if you're looking at it from a broad perspective.

Which feeling function can recreate the feelings of others internally through imagining and then act based on that feeling?
Your question already contains the one word answer. "Imagining", thus Ne or Ni. Acting based on someone else's emotion can be all four judgement functions. If I'm trying to influence someone to whatever end I desire, I can judge it from an Fe perspective and act in accordance to that for example. If I'm trying to compare said emotion to my own impersonal understanding of emotions, it can be Ti. There can be countless examples for countless situations and it all depends on the strengths of functions in question.
 

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The former is, indeed, Fi in my own experience. Fe doesn't need to internally validate the feelings of others and relates to others pain and joy without drawing from internal experiences. As a Fi-dom, I relate to others by drawing on my own experiences and "recreating" their feelings inside me, so Fi is more tempered when it relates others I think. Both Fe and Fi possess empathy but it is sourced differently.

To answer your last question, my INFJ husband and an ENFJ I know do act as though they feel the pain of others, as close as one can without being the actual person they are relating to.
I am trying to understand Fi better... so when you say, "As a Fi-dom, I relate to others by drawing on my own experiences and "recreating" their feelings inside me", does it mean you can't understand or recreate that feeling if you have not experienced a similar situation before? And when you do, do you inject your personal, subjective feelings into it?

Also, when you say INFJ/ENFJ act as though they feel the pain of others, are you saying they're pretending? I'm trying to grapple with this because when I see someone in pain, I put myself in their shoes and imagine how I would feel if I were them, and that's how I am able to empathise. Is this "pretending" (act as though) in your opinion? Note that I'm associating your "act as though" to "pretending". If this isn't what you mean, pls correct me.
 

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I'm not sure I believe that Fe and Fi define how you empathize with people, it's a distinct skill in its own right.
However I do believe Fe/Fi show sympathy in different ways.
 

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Which feeling function can recreate the feelings of others internally..
Fi.

Between Fe and Fi which is more likely to pay attention to body language to infer internal feelings?
Fe.

Assuming the first is Fi, does it use it's imagination/past experience to bring into consciousness the feeling they have had, and then assume that the other party(the one who originally was experiencing the emotion) feels the same? This would hypothetically be the subjective factor? While I suppose Fe doesn't really feel the pain of others, but rather externally acts accordingly?
Think about it this way: like Ti has the ability to spot logical inconsistencies, Fi has the ability to spot inconsistencies in others' behaviour and trace it back to a state he/she knows.
Fe is merely shallow, judging by the surface, like Te is judging by facts and doesn't go into details of inconsistencies.
 
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@spaceynyc, haha, well. This sort of idea about Fe vs. Fi is commonplace around the forum. I don't think it's particularly helpful in understanding what Fe and Fi are.

@Bhathaway, those are good questions.

Here is the key to keep in mind when trying to understand all these things: type is how you think, not what you think.

What is it basing it's evaluations on?
Your question points out the main misunderstanding people have about Feeling - and actually the functions in general. Many think that Feeling is a bunch of evaluations about things. Kind of like having values. But there's a difference between having values and preferring Feeling. (Remember, type is how you think, not what.)

Feeling doesn't base its evaluations on anything. Feeling is evaluation. It is the process of evaluating in and of itself. Just like Thinking, too, is a process. The process of categorizing and defining things - not being divorced from your emotions or being good at using logic or having certain things that you think.

Think of the functions as cognitive processes. Think of the Perceiving functions (Intuition and Sensing) as taking in information around you. Whether you have a preference for one or the other is dependent on what sort of information you tend to focus on. Thinking of the Judging functions (or as Jung called them, the Rational functions) as how you prefer to sort the information you perceive.

Here's how Jung put it: In any situation, Sensing tells us what is, what exists via our five senses. Intuition tells us what could be, the possibilities. Feeling tells us what has value (focus goes to weighing what has worth - what is meaningful, significant, beautiful, good, etc), Thinking tells us what stuff is (focus does to defining and categorizing what you perceive). I say "tells us", but really the functions aren't the conclusions we come to (as in actually what we value, what we think), but are simply how we prefer to perceive and sort out information coming into our minds.

As far as what Jung meant when he talked about objective/subjective...

The big difference between Introverted functions and Extroverted functions to Jung was whether they were subjective or objective. The Introverted functions are always going to be subjective. That may sound confusing, but think of it this way:

You can look at a sunset. Both the object being perceived (the sunset) and the observer doing the observing (the subject) are present in the situation. Someone leading with an Introverted function is always more focused on something the object (whatever that may be) gives them.

Hence why Ti is subjective while Te is objective. This isn't saying Te is "better" at getting to truth, or that any of the Extroverted functions have a better handle on reality. It is once again just a difference of focus. The Ti-doms I know are always trying to fit stuff into this constructed internal framework they have in their minds - something that feels consistent to them. Hence why Jung considered it to be subjective, unlike Te, which Jung said is directed towards objective facts and ideas (focused outwards). Jung said that Darwin was a good example of a Te-dom. He gathered evidence, which he thought was good criteria for figuring out what was true, and did that not just to convince people but for his own sake. Ti-doms - well. Jung used Kant as an example of a Ti-dom.

Just as we might take Darwin as an example of the normal extraverted thinking type, the normal introverted thinking type could be represented by Kant. The one speaks with facts, the other relies on the subjective factor. Darwin ranges over the wide field of objective reality. Kant restricts himself to a critique of knowledge. Cuvier and Nietzsche would form an even sharper contrast. - Jung
Fi is subjective in the same sense as Ti, according to Jung. It is the process of evaluating. If someone deeply values being individualistic, that doesn't necessarily mean Fi. If they like "social harmony", that doesn't necessarily mean they use Fe. I like social harmony. If we're honest, who doesn't like to have peace with the people around them? A lot of people value that. And a lot of people value individualism.

But not everyone in given situations sorts what information they perceive by evaluating it. Some people prefer that more than others. My husband, for example, most decidedly doesn't actively evaluate stuff near as much as he likes to categorize them. But he does have values. And I have lots of beliefs that are hinged on reason and have to do with the truth of things. Doesn't mean I prefer Thinking over Feeling.

Anyways, Fi is just weighing stuff based on how significant is this to me, how beautiful, how does this weigh on me? And it's hard to tell exactly what will weigh heavily on the Fi-user. There's a lot of this rumination in the things they say to try and express to others what it IS exactly that is significant to them because what they are focused on is what the external thing has given them - the subjective feeling.

Feeling wasn't supposed to be as narrow as, "I am a person who has emotions." Being emotional.

@jetser -

Yet if you're too emotional everyone assumes that you're a Feeler. Who's wrong in that?
The person who says you prefer Feeling if you are "too emotional". Everyone has emotions. Everyone is emotional. Some people are better at regulating their emotions more than others. *shrugs*
 

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When you say INFJ/ENFJ act as though they feel the pain of others, are you saying they're pretending? I'm trying to grapple with this because when I see someone in pain, I put myself in their shoes and imagine how I would feel if I were them, and that's how I am able to empathise. Is this "pretending" (act as though) in your opinion? Note that I'm associating your "act as though" to "pretending". If this isn't what you mean, pls correct me.
Oh, I don't mind explaining at all. I don't mean that they are pretending :) To put it another way, as far as I can observe, their actions indicate that they feel the pain of other people. This empathy is deep within them and completely sincere. I would agree with how you describe your way of empathizing with how I have observed it.

so when you say, "As a Fi-dom, I relate to others by drawing on my own experiences and "recreating" their feelings inside me", does it mean you can't understand or recreate that feeling if you have not experienced a similar situation before? And when you do, do you inject your personal, subjective feelings into it?
For Fi, I admit I don't understand it completely myself (haha!), I think partly because there is a lot of negative said about it (Fi-doms are selfish, unempathetic, etc). But I don't become the other person, like an Fe-user would. I don't put myself in another's shoes. Since Fi is a "vetted", judging function, ultimately my understanding of others comes from understanding myself first. So if someone is going through hard times, I would be able to relate to them best by drawing on my own experiences first and then be sympathetic. It is more difficult to understand someone going through something I have never experienced, but all that means is that it takes me longer (and I may not express it outwardly) to empathize with them but I get there eventually by synthesizing empathy from approximately similar experiences (different from actual memories/experiences). I have not considered before if I would put my own personal feelings into this synthesis, but I likely would especinally since Fi is personal to begin with. I'm also an Ne/Si with a strong well of memories, which may make it easier for me to do this, so a Se/Ni may be different.

I hope this explains it some! If not, feel free to ask again lol. Fi and Fe is not easy. D:
 

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Which feeling function can recreate the feelings of others internally through imagining and then act based on that feeling?

Between Fe and Fi which is more likely to pay attention to body language to infer internal feelings?

Assuming the first is Fi, does it use it's imagination/past experience to bring into consciousness the feeling they have had, and then assume that the other party(the one who originally was experiencing the emotion) feels the same? This would hypothetically be the subjective factor? While I suppose Fe doesn't really feel the pain of others, but rather externally acts accordingly?
Neither, actually. What you are asking about is *perception*. Most of the "Fe" answers are coming from NFJ s who are using Ni to gain insight on another's emotions through applying personalized pattern recognition, and most of the "Fi" answers are coming from NFP s who are using Si applying personalized past experiences.

:p
 

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Oh, I don't mind explaining at all. I don't mean that they are pretending :) To put it another way, as far as I can observe, their actions indicate that they feel the pain of other people. This empathy is deep within them and completely sincere. I would agree with how you describe your way of empathizing with how I have observed it.

For Fi, I admit I don't understand it completely myself (haha!), I think partly because there is a lot of negative said about it (Fi-doms are selfish, unempathetic, etc). But I don't become the other person, like an Fe-user would. I don't put myself in another's shoes. Since Fi is a "vetted", judging function, ultimately my understanding of others comes from understanding myself first. So if someone is going through hard times, I would be able to relate to them best by drawing on my own experiences first and then be sympathetic. It is more difficult to understand someone going through something I have never experienced, but all that means is that it takes me longer (and I may not express it outwardly) to empathize with them but I get there eventually by synthesizing empathy from approximately similar experiences (different from actual memories/experiences). I have not considered before if I would put my own personal feelings into this synthesis, but I likely would especinally since Fi is personal to begin with. I'm also an Ne/Si with a strong well of memories, which may make it easier for me to do this, so a Se/Ni may be different.

I hope this explains it some! If not, feel free to ask again lol. Fi and Fe is not easy. D:
Thanks for the explanation. :) I don't find Fi selfish but rather very subjective when relating to others as it seems (from what I've read so far) to be subjected to personal experiences and filtering (i.e. how you have felt when you encountered similar circumstances), and with that, you empathise and believe that person must be feeling the same way you did? Pls correct me again if I'm wrong because I'm making assumptions here. IMO, people are all made different and not everyone feels the same way in one given situation. How do you reconcile that as a Fi-dom?

I believe there's no good function/bad function but how it manifests in individuals that matters. What bugs me is the comments made by several Fi-doms insinuating that Fe is "fake/inauthentic" and that bothers me, and that's also why I asked you to clarify your comment (which you did and thanks). As a Fe-aux user, I don't proclaim to understand everyone's emotions. I imagine it on me and try to understand. There are also times I don't understand and I state so. "I don't get why you're so upset over this" is a statement I've made many times before.
 

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The person who says you prefer Feeling if you are "too emotional". Everyone has emotions. Everyone is emotional. Some people are better at regulating their emotions more than others. *shrugs*
I think emotions are responses given to fast reactions happening inside one's circles.
Emotions happen when you aren't ready for something yet or when you have a hard time accomodating to something.
So a Feeler and a Thinker has equal chances of being emotional it only depends on the matter of direction the emotions are channelled to. If it's about people then the person is most likely a Feeler if it is about things or objects then the person is most likely a Thinker.
 
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