Fi or Fe?

1737 Views 32 Replies 20 Participants Last post by nablur, May 26, 2018

Bhathaway

Discussion Starter · Oct 27, 2017

Which feeling function can recreate the feelings of others internally through imagining and then act based on that feeling?

Between Fe and Fi which is more likely to pay attention to body language to infer internal feelings?

Assuming the first is Fi, does it use it's imagination/past experience to bring into consciousness the feeling they have had, and then assume that the other party(the one who originally was experiencing the emotion) feels the same? This would hypothetically be the subjective factor? While I suppose Fe doesn't really feel the pain of others, but rather externally acts accordingly?

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GalaxyGazer

· #21 · Oct 30, 2017

For the first one, well, it's complicated. I think Fi users are probably better at imagining how they would feel in someone else's situation, but they are probably not very likely to act on their empathy. I'm a Fi user and this is how I am. I can easily imagine how someone might be feeling, but it's also like, I don't know for sure how they are feeling or how they will react to what I think will be helpful.

Reading emotions based on body language is probably more of an Se thing than Fi or Fe. I happen to pick up on body language really well. I'm especially good at noticing when a person is mad or frustrated.

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Birbsofafeather

· #22 · Oct 30, 2017

@00Hikaru00

I'm not going to claim that other Fi doms do this, I know that I'm quite emotional. It's hard to describe because someone telling me their issues is the most intense thing I can feel, it's the most engaged my body and mind is. I'm the sort that will cry at the troubles of others even if they aren't that upset. I just get into it.

For me, there isn't much cognitive processing going on when someone is telling me about their troubles. It doesn't feel like I'm recreating their feelings, it's more like they are allowing me into their head to feel them. In that instant, I am them whether or not I want to be. We're sharing emotions. When it finally comes time for me to give advice, it's quite a good feeling...

Anyhow, research supports the fact that I often feel as if my brain is at its peak when helping others, amusingly enough.

Fi types:
Are consummate listeners who listen in a holistic way.
INFPs can deeply listen for up to 10 minutes at a time, ISFPs listen briefly and then move to action.
Show high activity in T3 and T4, which handle language.
Carefully compose their own speech, attending to both content and delivery.
Show high activity in F8, and are stimulated by rankings of importance.
Show the least activity in interior regions that aid logic.
Rely on left-brained (Fp1) decision making.

INFPs may get to the core of a person's psychology by listening for so long. INFPs are less likely to defend their own views or take action, though when they stop listening, region Fp1 becomes very active as they make a strong (and perhaps final) decision.

That's Dimane's (a user on this site) paraphrasing of a portion of Dario Nardi's Neuroscience of Personality.

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jetser

· #23 · Oct 30, 2017

braided pain said:
Neither, actually. What you are asking about is *perception*. Most of the "Fe" answers are coming from NFJ s who are using Ni to gain insight on another's emotions through applying personalized pattern recognition, and most of the "Fi" answers are coming from NFP s who are using Si applying personalized past experiences.

Hold on.
The function that is dealing with other person's feelings is...well, Feeling.
It might get help from other functions to imagine someone else's state or be in that other person's shoes but "insight", as you state is not required to recognize someone else's reactions or feelings.

Of the two, Fi builds a framework, so it may know where the other is coming from without the need to see it played out in front of him.
I saw a lot of ESFPs who knew what the others were thinking without getting all the clues, just from the behaviour they could guess. (and they guessed good)
Fe is more concerned about feelings that are obvious. If someone makes an angry face, they will know that person is angry. But until it gets obvious they may not have a clue. (of course it can happen with inferior Fi too)

Fe is the equivalent of Te and Fi is the equivalent of Ti. As much as a Ti person is more able to dig down deep and spot the inaccuracies of a system or theory or whatever, a Fi is more able to see the person in depth and see through his personality.

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frostedfields

· #24 · Oct 31, 2017 (Edited)

00Hikaru00 said:
you empathise and believe that person must be feeling the same way you did? ... people are all made different and not everyone feels the same way in one given situation. How do you reconcile that as a Fi-dom?

What bugs me is the comments made by several Fi-doms insinuating that Fe is "fake/inauthentic" ... As a Fe-aux user, I don't proclaim to understand everyone's emotions. I imagine it on me and try to understand. There are also times I don't understand and I state so. "I don't get why you're so upset over this" is a statement I've made many times before.

Oooh, dear!

I am so sorry that those Fi-doms would say that about Fe. I actually have the opposite opinion, and really admire Fe. In some ways I could go without being called selfish and unempathetic but I feel the Fi's personal identity too much. I wouldn't know how to live without it. I certainly don't proclaim to understand myself, let alone others, but I do sincerely believe that we all have strengths and weaknesses and there are no bad personality types or functions.

To answer your question in the first paragraph, I do recognize that we all bring our own experiences to the table and I at best approximate how the person might be feeling in general, not specifically. It's a launching pad to start a discussion about their emotional state if possible. If not, I can empathise with them anyway so nothing is lost.

Birbsofafeather said:
I'm not going to claim that other Fi doms do this, I know that I'm quite emotional. It's hard to describe because someone telling me their issues is the most intense thing I can feel, it's the most engaged my body and mind is. I'm the sort that will cry at the troubles of others even if they aren't that upset. I just get into it.

For me, there isn't much cognitive processing going on when someone is telling me about their troubles. It doesn't feel like I'm recreating their feelings, it's more like they are allowing me into their head to feel them. In that instant, I am them whether or not I want to be. We're sharing emotions. When it finally comes time for me to give advice, it's quite a good feeling...

Very interesting, birbs! Being angry makes me cry very easily, and if others are hurting and crying I tend to cry as well - I don't even feel sad per se but I simply hate seeing them sad, especially if I can't help them. Unfortunately I am not very emotional outwardly - I feel strong feelings but it takes a lot for me to cry about something inside of me. On the other hand my INFJ husband cries super easily and so does the other ENFJ I mentioned, who is a guy. This is something I have struggled with my entire life, especially when I read that it's quite typical for INFPs to cry very easily. >_>

@jetser, that is a really interesting take on the two and I pretty much agree!

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jetser

· #25 · Nov 2, 2017

frostedfields said:
@jetser, that is a really interesting take on the two and I pretty much agree!

Thanks.
You only need to remember four simple things:
T - impersonal, F - personal
i - builds internal framework (deep), e - judges real time (superficial).

The hard part is separating the judging functions from the perceiver ones.

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Kynx

· #26 · Nov 3, 2017

Bhathaway said:
What is it basing it's evaluations on?

Tbh the definitions of the judgement functions with "objective" and "subjective" make little sense to me so mabye you can straighten it out. A thinking function should base their evaluations on logical consistency yes? So where is the subjective force of Ti coming from? Similarly where is the subjective force of Fi coming from? I assume their feelings about things....i.e. it might as well just be feelings.

Then objective makes sense for Te if it goes to facts rather than principles(I guess lol? I mean principles can be objectively true....so....), but an evaluation of something for Fe would have to be both non-thinking/logical, and would have to be objective. Objective how?

Jung says Ti goes "beyond" facts right? Into the imaginary apparently, but I have never noticed that in the moment. It's hard to spot it in yourself surely, but I have NEVER seen a remark on this forum about the subjective side of Ti or where it is originating from, though I have asked and gotten mixed responses.

The subjective factor is derived from the 'archetypes' within the 'collective unconscious. The collective unconscious is the deepest layer of our unconscious psyche, it's beneath the personal unconscious and it's shared by everyone. ' Archetypes are unconscious forms that are passed down through the ancestral line. They're like instinctive ways of looking at the world and everything in it.

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Cataclysm

· #27 · Nov 6, 2017

Well, you sorta need Ni to imagine something for Fi to judge. So the type most likely to display that sort of behavior strongly would be the INTJ I guess. Strong imagination, proactive and sort of emotional. Just don't leave them in a room with nothing to do but browse the web for too long.

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ANAXEL

· #28 · Nov 6, 2017

frostedfields said:
Very interesting, birbs! Being angry makes me cry very easily [...] INFPs tend to cry very easily. >_>

@jetser, that is a really interesting take on the two and I pretty much agree!

When I'm angry and I examine why, I can cry pretty easily too.
In general, I tend to cry a lot. The interesting nature of my crying here, however, is that I view it as very useful. Sometimes I start listening to certain songs and go through some memories in order to get some tears out just because it gives me a certain high, helps me validate a feeling so that I won't push it to the back of my head (because then it will attack me later during a social situation when someone is pulling a roast or an instigation or tries to hurt me overall), or helps me get over something super fast and I never have to visit it again.
I usually accept horrible things in life by crying really hard for about 5 minutes and then I never really go back to it. Crying gives me a lot of closure. It's very powerful.
Which means that my revisiting other memories in order to cry means that I have no closure over those. And that's horrible, I hate that.

Do you see it the same way? What does crying mean for an INFP?
For most Fe users, I think crying is similar to fulfilling a duty. Of course, for some of us Tertiary Fe users, this is a somewhat of a chore most times.

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InkMyUmbrella

· #29 · Nov 8, 2017

Jewl said:
Feeling according to Jung is evaluation - it is the function that says we sort stuff out based on its worth, how valuable it is. If it is subjective, then it is Fi. If this is done objectively, then it is Fe.

It doesn't have to do with how empathetic or sympathetic you are. Feeling was never supposed to be about emotion. And understanding it as simply being able to read the emotions of others is narrow. Even my INTP husband can read what I'm feeling or even feel what I'm feeling at times. This is a human trait.

Feeling =/= emotional intelligence.

Phew. Sorry. Had to get that off my chest.

How do you differentiate whether you sort worth out subjectively or objectively in the real time? What you're saying makes sense in terms of theory, but I don't really know how to make the distinction in real time.

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Handsome Dyke

· #30 · Nov 11, 2017

Paradigm said:
To ask whatever the OP (what you quoted) is asking?
To describe the judging functions without "anthropomorphizing?"

I wouldn't ask it; it doesn't quite make sense to me but seems to pertain to sensing more than Fe or Fi, if it can be narrowed down to a cognitive function at all (re-creating feelings kinda seems like memory on the one hand and an emotional process on the other, and without more details neither of those maps cleanly onto a single cognitive function as far as I can tell).

I describe Thinking as judging on the basis of impersonal criteria and Feeling as judging on the basis of personal criteria. Fi is the subjective form of the latter and Fe is the objective form.

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Bunniculla

· #31 · Nov 11, 2017

I often feel the most empathy for people if it’s something I personally have experienced before. I think this is Fi paired with Si. I know everybody can feel empathy but it’s not as easy as it is for feeler types. Just like how I can act like I use Ni but I have to try harder than an INTJ, in which it comes naturally. I’m not actually too sure how Fe responds to situations in which they have not experienced before. My INFJ friend says she is able to put herself in others’ shoes though. Perhaps this is Fe paired with Ni.

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nablur

· #32 · May 26, 2018

frostedfields said:
Being angry makes me cry very easily, and if others are hurting and crying I tend to cry as well - I don't even feel sad per se but I simply hate seeing them sad, especially if I can't help them.

Unfortunately I am not very emotional outwardly - I feel strong feelings but it takes a lot for me to cry about something inside of me.

This is something I have struggled with my entire life, especially when I read that it's quite typical for INFPs to cry very easily. >_>

wow....dude..... me too. even in movies. i cried so hard during avengers!! both times i saw it! lol... id describe some scenes right now but dont wanna put spoilers, and i cant figure out the hide text feature. ><
teared up during king kong, terminator 2... full blown cry face during nearly ALL of hachi (owned an akita for years, put her down myself...long story... ugh) ... list goes on.

i am Fe child, so somewhat emotionally outwardly, but it comes off as intense, big energied, expressive and able to more or less sense the emotional energy in the environment

my ex-fiance INFP cp6, cried AAAALLL THE FUCCKKKING TIIIIIIIIIMEEE... IT WAS HER GOD DAAAAM HOBBY!!!!

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nablur

· #33 · May 26, 2018

frostedfields said:
To answer your last question, my INFJ husband and an ENFJ I know do act as though they feel the pain of others, as close as one can without being the actual person they are relating to.

when im on my high i DO feel the pain of others man... its so strong. breaks me down. thats why i tear up/cry during movies sometimes!

ironically my exfiance/infp accused me soooo many times of not being empathetic enough/at all. looking back i guess that was her projecting her own empatheticlessness...? (Fi is sympathy , fe is empathy , right?)

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