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Discussion Starter #1
Could you be Fe and passive-aggressive?

I've noticed passive-aggressiveness in INTJ, INFP and ESFP girls and it made me think there's a pattern between Fi and passive-aggressive, which makes sense to me from my understanding of Fi...

What's your thoughts and experiences?
 

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I don't see why not. Why do you link Fi with being passive-aggressive in your understanding?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
From my understanding, which could be wrong...

Fe wants everyone to be their friend and value harmony in the group in some way and can adjust themselves in order to achieve that unless some other function overrides. It's easier for Fe to be expressed outwards.

Fi wants everyone else to make them feel good and hate when someone makes them feel bad. And if someone makes them feel bad they will link that feeling to that person. It's harder for Fi to be expressed outwards, which makes me think it's easier to be passive aggressive because then you can direct that anger without expressing emotions directly.
 

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From my understanding, which could be wrong...

Fe wants everyone to be their friend and value harmony in the group in some way and can adjust themselves in order to achieve that unless some other function overrides. It's easier for Fe to be expressed outwards.

Fi wants everyone else to make them feel good and hate when someone makes them feel bad. And if someone makes them feel bad they will link that feeling to that person. It's harder for Fi to be expressed outwards, which makes me think it's easier to be passive aggressive because then you can direct that anger without expressing emotions directly.
Fi doesn't sound too healthy to me. I hate it when this happens! If only I can switch it for another function!
 

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I don't think passive-aggressiveness is really linked to Fi or Fe. It has really more to do with indirectly opposing someone, and in my experience, most J, especially TJs, have no problem telling you that they have a problem with you in your face.

I think passive-aggressiveness can be linked mainly to IXXPs, since their extroverted judging function (either Te or Fe) is at the bottom of their 4 main cognitive functions, and therefore usually tend to be the least confident in making direct confrontations. That's not to say that other types don't exhibit this type of behaviour as well.
 

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I don't think switching functions would make a person more healthy, though. That's not really how they work.
Well, what will someone with healthy Fi be like? Supersoaker's description seems to confirm emotional expressiveness problems quite well, though.
 

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From my understanding, which could be wrong...

Fe wants everyone to be their friend and value harmony in the group in some way and can adjust themselves in order to achieve that unless some other function overrides. It's easier for Fe to be expressed outwards.

Fi wants everyone else to make them feel good and hate when someone makes them feel bad. And if someone makes them feel bad they will link that feeling to that person. It's harder for Fi to be expressed outwards, which makes me think it's easier to be passive aggressive because then you can direct that anger without expressing emotions directly.
Sounds like immature Fi-user to me, not Fi in itself. And why is Fi considered to be harder to express? I don't understand this general idea.
 
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I think it has something to do with it. I have a really difficult time telling people how I feel if something's wrong, so I usually act on those feelings rather than talk about them.

For example, two of my friends got mad at me for something that wasn't my fault, and I didn't want to talk about it with them or work out the other problems in our relationship (that I've been feeling for a year or two now), so I decided to avoid them until they start talking to me again. Then I kind of adjust myself to the moment and continue as if I hadn't been ignoring them and I realize that they care about me (which is a manifestation of Se, I think).

I can bottle up all my feelings until a point where it's unhealthy and I avoid the person. I rarely, if ever, tell someone how I feel about them or what problems I see in the relationship because I think the other person probably won't get it. So it comes out passive-aggressively.

Obviously that's unhealthy and something I need to work on.
 

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This seems more of a maturity issue, people are indirect about different things for different reasons. I have seen high degrees of passive aggressiveness from both Fi/Fe and T preferences in whichever order. Te being generally straight forward but when they become unhealthy, they can make pretty snide remarks. On second thoughts, it could be a sign of an inferior function popping out or if the function is in a higher preference, it is likely that function is unhealthy or crudely operating. Again though, not sure if this specific to one function in particular or more of a universal behaviour.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hmmm, I think that I thought of Fe to have a built in 'safety' against passive-aggressiveness, but I guess we all have egos which we like to defend and if we can't do it overt it will be covert. Probably linked to being immature or feeling weak.

Sorry if I did hurt some Fi-feelings.
 

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Hmmm, I think that I thought of Fe to have a built in 'safety' against passive-aggressiveness, but I guess we all have egos which we like to defend and if we can't do it overt it will be covert. Probably linked to being immature or feeling weak.

Sorry if I did hurt some Fi-feelings.
You didn't :happy:. You just didn't take into consideration the wider perspective about the issue, it's okay to speculate but there there isn't always going to be a simple answer when thinking about all the variables, learnt behaviours, enneagram types etc.
 

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Sounds like immature Fi-user to me, not Fi in itself. And why is Fi considered to be harder to express? I don't understand this general idea.
It depends on the source(s) of your information on the subject. For example, here's a few interweb-based descriptions:
Introverted Feeling - (Fe) - "On the other hand, most of the time this process works "in private" and is expressed through actions."
Introverted Feeling (Fi) vs. Ti, Ni, & Fe - Personality Junkie (a decent source) - "They may express themselves through action (Se), hints or suggestions (Ne), or matter-of-fact statements (Te)."; "Unless they are using their Se or Ne auxiliary, IFPs can seem cold, aloof, and uninviting."
http://personalitycafe.com/nfs-temperament-forum-dreamers/3065-introverted-feeling.html - "Here the activities of feeling are hidden, and from the outside there is, as a rule, little to tell us that we are dealing with a person of feeling-type."; "In ordinary life their mask conceals what they really are."; "The consequence is that they are nearly always misunderstood, and they tend more or less to resign themselves to this situation."

Of the two female INFPs (we took several tests together) I still keep in contact with, both fit these definitions relatively well. It may also be worth noting that both Fi and Ti can be inwardly 'judging' (such as chastising yourself for some sort of inconsistency in behavior), and both functions are often correlated with the feeling of being misunderstood. It was mainly both of these reasons that I quickly befriended the Fi-users I know. The INFPs were a little more likely to 'beat around the bush' for a while, but at the end of the day, they'd make it clear to me what they were thinking - and they can be rather convincing (read: dangerous) when even slightly annoyed.

As for ISFPs... I think my first kiss came from one. It was a traumatic experience for my Ti. Needless to say, I later used it as an excuse to bring breath-freshening gum to school - for both of us.
 

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Fe wants everyone to be their friend and value harmony in the group in some way and can adjust themselves in order to achieve that unless some other function overrides. It's easier for Fe to be expressed outwards.
I've seen Fe (FJ) used in some controlling ways. If you were going to be domineered by an unhealthy, controlling person who felt they should have a say in what you do, what you eat, who you marry, who you're friends with, and so on because they've done so much for you don't be an ungrateful little brat I would think Fe. I'm not sure it's the same thing as merely passive-aggressive, but of the two, I think Fe could do the heavier damage.

Fi wants everyone else to make them feel good and hate when someone makes them feel bad. And if someone makes them feel bad they will link that feeling to that person. It's harder for Fi to be expressed outwards, which makes me think it's easier to be passive aggressive because then you can direct that anger without expressing emotions directly.
This is incredibly true for unhealthy Fi users in my experience. I mean really unhealthy, the kind of unhealthy that has nothing to do with MBTI but is necessarily expressed through the dominate function.

At the core of it, they genuinely hate conflict and care about the people they love. But they get wounded so easily (personality disorder type stuff here) and then blame the person who made them feel bad, even if the reason they got upset was because the person was bringing up a legitimate issue. Like this:

Person: Why are there socks all over the floor?

Unhealthy Fi: Because they're mine and I haven't cleaned them up yet, I'm SORRY they're bothering you!

Person: Wha...it's not that big of a deal, I just wondered why there's so much clutter around!

Unhealthy Fi: *sob* *sulk*

You can't do anything when that happens. You're a bad guy no matter what you do, and the only way to win is to never upset that person, ever.

But I myself (tertiary Fi) can be passive-aggressive at times. I have to agree that most of the people I can think of Fi-wise (including Te/Fi types) have passive-aggressive moments, usually when it's about emotions or feelings rather than usual T stuff in the case of T types.

My thoughts in general is that if you know how to work systems, you know how to manipulate them. If you know how to work people, it follows that the unhealthy version of that trait is to manipulate them.
 

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Fi is the same process as Ti, only placing importance on value content instead of logical content. Just as Ti isn't satisfied with external facts if they don't make sense to the individual, Fi isn't satisfied with external values if they don't weigh up for the individual.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
My thoughts in general is that if you know how to work systems, you know how to manipulate them. If you know how to work people, it follows that the unhealthy version of that trait is to manipulate them.
This is really interesting. Would you say that being passive-aggressive would hurt someone with Fi more than someone with Fe?
 

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This is really interesting. Would you say that being passive-aggressive would hurt someone with Fi more than someone with Fe?
Not purely because of their functions. Sometimes yes, other times no. Same goes for any type.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Fi is the same process as Ti, only placing importance on value content instead of logical content. Just as Ti isn't satisfied with external facts if they don't make sense to the individual, Fi isn't satisfied with external values if they don't weigh up for the individual.
Yes, but it's still where you process your feelings? When I'm in Ti+Se, I don't feel at all... it just flows :)
 

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Yes, but it's still where you process your feelings? When I'm in Ti+Se, I don't feel at all... it just flows :)
Feelings are experienced at different levels of intensity. At their most intense they may cause physical symptoms of illness. In the middle they can be distinguished and labeled as sadness, jealousy, anger, etc. The feeling involved in Fi/Fe judgement process are very subtle and don't affect a F dom any more than Thinking affects a T dom. It's just like another form of thinking.

Personal emotions are separate. I believe that F types are more sensitive than T types to feelings/emotions so that they're able to make judgements by the subtle tones/moods that Thinkers don't readily notice. Often, by the time T types are affected by feelings, it seems they've reached a level of intensity high enough to influence them in an irrational way. Which is why I believe, that many thinking types struggle to conceive Feeling as a rational process.
 
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