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Fi putting value in Logic (Ti)

5K views 30 replies 18 participants last post by  Sakuzuki_99 
#1 ·
I've done some tests and my Fi and Ti can be both the highest score on them and depending on the test each one has a 50/50 chance of winning over the other.

I am pretty certain I'm an Fi user and I was just wondering if I could appear to be a Ti user If I put value in it.

Could I develop Ti even though it is completely opposed to my main function?
Would it be imperfect logic?
Would I be demonstrating Te or Ni instead of Ti when I'm logically deducing something?

Thank you for reading. 🙏
 
#4 ·
Well...I don't think Ti is the same thing as logic.

I took Logic class in college and I did fine. I'm a Fi dom, I think. I still enjoy some of the logical principles I learned and I wish I would have learned more, even though it was hard and my logic teacher was really sort of mean (but I liked him anyway and he seemed okay with me because I tried really hard).

So yeah...idk...take Logic in college or maybe watch youtube tutorials on it. It's actually a very interesting discipline. It was an effort to combine mathematical principles with language! And there are some parts of it that are their own language--like the tilde, which I like because it sounds like my great grandmother's name!

So you see--Fi can do fine with logic.

But I'm not sure about those cognitive function tests. I also score higher on Ti than Te on those, and I don't think I'm any kind of Ti type--like IXTP or IFXJ. I don't think those cognitive function tests are very useful in determining your type (at least they haven't really been for me). On those tests I tend to score high on Ni as well, and also Fe. And yet I am an Fi type.
 
#31 ·
Well...I don't think Ti is the same thing as logic.

I took Logic class in college and I did fine. I'm a Fi dom, I think. I still enjoy some of the logical principles I learned and I wish I would have learned more, even though it was hard and my logic teacher was really sort of mean (but I liked him anyway and he seemed okay with me because I tried really hard).

So yeah...idk...take Logic in college or maybe watch youtube tutorials on it. It's actually a very interesting discipline. It was an effort to combine mathematical principles with language! And there are some parts of it that are their own language--like the tilde, which I like because it sounds like my great grandmother's name!

So you see--Fi can do fine with logic.

But I'm not sure about those cognitive function tests. I also score higher on Ti than Te on those, and I don't think I'm any kind of Ti type--like IXTP or IFXJ. I don't think those cognitive function tests are very useful in determining your type (at least they haven't really been for me). On those tests I tend to score high on Ni as well, and also Fe. And yet I am an Fi type.
Same thing happens to me, Ti is always over Te and Ni (even though sometimes Ni is dominant) and I'm a Te dom (TeNi ENTJ)
 
#5 · (Edited)
It’s funny because I’ve been wondering the exact same thing myself over these past few days. Ti is a rational function that evaluates logical systems. Fi is a rational function that evaluates moral systems. In the abstract, that sounds cute and all, but in practice, something is missing from that definition. It feels too simplistic to me. Also, I disagree with the commonly held statement that “IxFPs struggle with hard logic.” This is, again, oversimplified. We do not struggle with reasoning by itself. What we struggle with is objectivity, and consequently emotional detachment. If that constitutes hard logic, then OK, but I’m not a human embodiment of a pillow. I have a brain. :p

I did very well in my one required ethics class during undergrad, which was taught by a philosophy professor (although it was for computer science majors and consequently was probably watered down). But, doing well in ethics is logically consistent with Fi — we might have a slightly more difficult time being completely objective in our analyses, which can make it difficult to discuss such things with Ti users, but this characteristic does not really inhibit our understanding of the system itself.

But it doesn’t make sense outside of that context. What function am I using when analyzing a system that is inherently amoral? For example, debugging a computer program (ok, that one is probably Te) or constructing an argument about something that doesn’t tread on my internal value system — i.e., something that I have no opinion on and therefore can approach with at least illusory objectivity? Can Fi look like Ti in this case? Or is it always going to be Te shining through? In other words: when there is no emotional value attached to a concept, does Fi get yeeted into the sun, and replaced by Te? Or does Fi simply continue its analysis, sans moral implications?

I don’t know the answer yet, but I LOVE this Quora response (first answer). It is talking about INFPs but it really applies to any Fi user IMO.

Edit: also, cognitive function tests are way too vague for my liking. According to them I use Fi, Ti, Ni, and Ne, which obviously makes zero sense in a Jungian context. So, I do not place much emphasis on those tests.
 
#6 ·
But it doesn’t make sense outside of that context. What function am I using when analyzing a system that is inherently amoral? For example, debugging a computer program (ok, that one is probably Te) or constructing an argument about something that doesn’t tread on my internal value system — i.e., something that I have no opinion on and therefore can approach with at least illusory objectivity? Can Fi look like Ti in this case? Or is it always going to be Te shining through?
You've got some interesting points there!
 
#7 ·
Anyone can use any of the eight functions but it's just harder to use them when they're not in your primary four stacking. In other words, they're not one of your goto functions. Valuing logic doesn't mean that it's your strength.

Also, Fi and Ti are both decision making functions so they can't be equal since you'd be at a stand still all day long since they use different criteria to decision make, never mind that Fi and Ti can't be together as part of the four primary functions.
 
#8 ·
I've done some tests and my Fi and Ti can be both the highest score on them and depending on the test each one has a 50/50 chance of winning over the other.

I am pretty certain I'm an Fi user and I was just wondering if I could appear to be a Ti user If I put value in it.

Could I develop Ti even though it is completely opposed to my main function?
Would it be imperfect logic?
Would I be demonstrating Te or Ni instead of Ti when I'm logically deducing something?

Thank you for reading. 🙏
You're most likely using Te to logically deduce criteria that would fit your general Fi attitude. I also incorporate some Fi values into my general Te attitude, it's effective and beneficial. As people have said before, any function coming after the first is used for the sake of the primary function.
 
#11 ·
I've done some tests and my Fi and Ti can be both the highest score on them and depending on the test each one has a 50/50 chance of winning over the other.

I am pretty certain I'm an Fi user and I was just wondering if I could appear to be a Ti user If I put value in it.

Could I develop Ti even though it is completely opposed to my main function?
Would it be imperfect logic?
Would I be demonstrating Te or Ni instead of Ti when I'm logically deducing something?

Thank you for reading. 🙏
I’d say Fi doms use Ti to make their Fi values are logically consistent while Ti doms have an Fi attachment to their Ti system because they’ve spent so much time building on it
 
#17 ·
I've done some tests and my Fi and Ti can be both the highest score on them and depending on the test each one has a 50/50 chance of winning over the other.

I am pretty certain I'm an Fi user and I was just wondering if I could appear to be a Ti user If I put value in it.

Could I develop Ti even though it is completely opposed to my main function?
Would it be imperfect logic?
Would I be demonstrating Te or Ni instead of Ti when I'm logically deducing something?

Thank you for reading. 🙏
After studying and having my insights, I believe that the main difference between Te/Ti and Fe/Fi is:

• Fe/Fi functions cognize objects as having personalized, living, biotic qualities
• Te/Ti functions cognize objects as having depersonalized, mechanic, abiotic qualities

For me, that main difference between T and F leads to all the other characteristics we have seen everywhere here. Like for example Fe/Fi valuing morals or ethics involving deeply caring about people lives (or even animal lives) for example, while Te/Ti valuing purely what makes logical sense, "what works".

The main difference relies on about how our brains prefer to processes informations attributing characteristic to these tiny little informations that reaches our brains.

• Personalized or Depersonalized?
• Biotic or Abiotic?
• Living or Mechanic?

These redefinitions by CT are incredible because makes a lot of sense.

Now the interesting thing: Te dom users (just to name one example) can think that a person is being moral or imoral, although their brain tend to depersonalized/impersonal the outer objects, they can believe in high standards of morality or imorality. Te dom users can think one thing is good and another thing is bad. However, they will often reach these conclusions not by a process of personalization, but by depersonalization. They can purely look on how a system work for example.

Example:
Te dom user can say: "This guy is imoral because he hinders the system by cheating"
=> This ENTJ thinks that: Personality Database ™️ | Famous People and Fictional Characters (2022)
(And I know he is enneagram 1 which helped him to behave like that, but it is also Te)
(amazing movie btw!)

So, as you can see above, the T CAN assign value to something, but that assignment process can be a purely depersonalized thinking process.

So yeah, the central point between F and T for me is, again, that Fe/Fi personalize informations and Te/Ti depersonalize informations. And of course each person has his own level of personalization or depersonalization of objects (we are never a FULL T or a FULL F). But that explains why we can see high Fe/Fi users looking at cute little TOYS and attributing living qualities to them. (Just one example)

To finish, I wanna post a quote where Carl Jung was describing Te dom pure users (Extraverted Thinking Type) on his book: "Psychological Types".

Jung clearly showed that purist Te dom users attribute values of "good and bad" and "moral and imoral" to certain objects and ideas, and they actually attribute very rigid, strongly, with "black-and-white" vision! Which I bet it will be surprising to a lot of people that sees Fi users as the ones who does that.

Extraverted Thinking 🛃)
"By this formula are good and evil measured, and beauty and ugliness determined. All is right that corresponds with this formula; all is wrong that contradicts it; and everything that is neutral to it is purely accidental. Because this formula seems to correspond with the meaning of the world, it also becomes a world-law whose realization must be achieved at all times and seasons, both individually and collectively. Just as the extraverted thinking type subordinates himself to his formula, so, for its own good, must his entourage also obey it, since the man who refuses to obey is wrong -- he is resisting the world-law, and is, therefore, unreasonable, immoral, and without a conscience. His moral code forbids him to tolerate exceptions; his ideal must, under all circumstances, be realized; for in his eyes it is the purest conceivable formulation of objective reality, and, therefore, must also be generally valid truth, quite indispensable for the salvation of man."
~ Carl Jung, Psychological Types

That's why I believe it is the main difference between Thinking and Feeling on their pure forms. However, everyone have it's own level of preference between them. (And that often cause conflicts 😂)
 
#18 ·
Fi-Te: Uses facts and logic to justify personal feelings. User doesn’t realize he / she is using an analytical / deductive process.

Te-Fi: Uses feelings but comes across as logical / impersonal. User doesn’t realize he / she is actually feeling a certain way.

Fe-Ti: Uses subjective, rational considerations to determine what makes the most sense for collective, objective feeling. He / she doesn’t realize they’re internally striving for logic and order.

Ti-Fe: Uses a collective, objective sense of feeling to determine what is subjective logic and truth. Typical “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” He / she doesn’t realize they’re actually very concerned about outward consensus and keeping the atmosphere smooth.

Someone can feel free to explain it better than me, I’m the most familiar with Fi-Te as it’s my own axis.
 
#19 ·
Ti-Fe: focusing on what one considers to be the most rational and the most logical outcome, while feeling mostly unsure about how their ideas will be treated by the community. Priority lies in self-understanding, and less attention is paid to fitting in. May recognize and attempts to comply with recognized norms, standards, and values of society, but the self's autonomy is always prioritized. Hence, one might act as a rational observer of life. May appear friendly and genuine, but an emotional appeal tends to make little sense to them.

Most of the time seems detached, cold, and driven by reason, sometimes, may show their limited warmth. Tends to stay away from an emotional situation and if withdrawal is not possible, might offer some calm and rational analysis, aimed at solving the problem.

"I'm sure what I think and what makes sense to me, but do others think the same? Will they accept my ideas?"

Fe-Ti: The top priority is to fit in, follow convention, and align oneself with the established norms. In the case of a disagreeable Fe, the self may attempt to prompt others to feel the same way as they do. Otherwise, they will seek to align themselves with the external emotional atmosphere. The top concern is on the community and collective well-being. Can be altruistic. Might use logic and reason to justify their belief in what is best for the community. Inferior Ti means that reasoning might be weak and prone to flaws.

Agreeable Fe tries to adapt and align.
Disagreeable Fe tries to dominate and direct.

Most of the time, dom Fe seems approachable, warm, caring, and friendly. Disagreeable Fe, however, can seem domineering and wants to control others' feelings. When needed, the Fe type can be rational and cool-headed, but still, one may tend to avoid a situation where serious rational analysis is required.

Not sure about Fi-Te or Te-Fi.
I guess the Fi type is mostly feeling-oriented and the whole life tends to be guided by the self's feelings. May present themselves as a genuine, warm, and easy-going person. However, due to Fi, might not be as emotionally expressive. Tends to feel much more deeply inside. When under stress, can display their rational side, and might act in an assertive and decisive way.

Te-Fi: Mostly a typical Te dom and present themselves to the outside as a rational, objective, and determined decision-maker. However, privately, might have a soft and emotional side, and might wonder how they themselves feel about something.
 
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#20 ·
I think you can use Ti if you want to and yes you might value it. I always feel the best analogy is right and left handedness. Also, if you work in a field that requires Ti or if you are close to a lot of people with Ti, you could use it more often.

I think a question that truly showed me how different people’s way of thinking is was asked in a thread by @ai.tran.75 . She asked people if they would (A) rather keep their past memories but not be able to make new ones or (B) continue to make new memories but lose the old — explain your thinking. The Ti users who I asked said “How old am I in this scenario?” If older than 40 then they chose the first one. Or they would say “The second because I’m younger than 40.” Or some such that made you realize they made the question objective and took the value out. Certain memories weren’t better than others in their scenario.

I’m an ENFP, I took a long time answering because I was going through every scenario at every age, and J love learning new things, but I came up with the answer that even if asked this at age 15, I’d rather keep the young memories that make me who I am and let me know the people who loved me as a child. There is some logic like that you’d have ti learn to walk again, etc, if choosing B— but the real truth is that I value my known memories over those not yet known— so I’m making a value judgement. I think there was a INFP whose value judgement was that she wanted to forget all her childhood. But this is very different from Ti users who we asked who cut through the values and made a decision based on the idea that quantity not quality was the way to make this decision—number of memories kept.

I think it’s fascinating. I think these kinds of questions are the funnest to explore and to maybe relate back to MBTI.
 
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#21 · (Edited)
I understand. I think for me decisions take very little time, like you pondering over that question is just unbeliveable for me to do that. I'd rather have the decision out of the way so it feels like somethings been accomplished (an external standard?). but I think i'd choose B, on the basis that I want to experience a lot more happiness and grow more to be able to teach others how to be the same way. thanks for the comment Llyralen.
 
#22 ·
Say, both a Windows PC and a Mac can read a Word document without a problem. They can both do the same thing and achieve the same outcome, however, the PC and the Mac are different in every way. In terms of the operating system (the essence), they are fundamentally different.

This difference is similar to how the Ti type and the Fi type differ. It's hard to tell them apart just from what they do, and what has been done. It is important, therefore, to look into their inner settings, to find out how these two types of minds differ in cognition, and this is usually not directly observable.

The Fi type, being a Feeler who is introverted, shares a similar drive as the Fe type. People and relationships are their primary focus.
The Ti type, being a Thinker who is introverted, shares a similar drive as the Te type. Tasks, things, and ideas are their primary focus.

They can both use logic effectively, and their ability to conduct logical thinking is not the major difference. Any type is capable of doing so. If we look into their respective motives and purposes, we will find the differences.

Marxism, for example, can be seen as an Fe philosophy in essence, why?
The key concern is social inequality, injustice, and exploitation. Social class distinctions. What should be done to make everyone happy, to create a perfect world where all enjoy but none suffers, and to realize universal equality? Marx says the proletarian must start a revolution. See? It is essentially Fe, happiness for everyone. Although logic is used, as Marx was a philosopher, it does not change the nature of Marxism, which is Fe at core.
 
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