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Discussion Starter #1
Well, it's about me and my ex again. I'm sorry. I know this is getting annoying, but I really don't understand Si-Fe.

Our functions always clash. I don't understand him completely, so I just let it be and go with the flow. He said he tried to understand me, but that's all based on assumptions since I NEVER liked talking about my feelings. When I actually talked about them, I told him vague stuff that made no sense to his Fe, but it's perfectly reasonable for my Fi.

I really prefer actions. He likes to listen and talk about feelings while I absolutely HATE feelings. Emotions make no sense to me. They are illogical. I really don't care about my emotions. I let them slide and don't think about them unless I am forced too. My mother is Fe dom, so I constantly explode. Why? I don't want to talk about feelings. If I know she's being illogical, then I'll ignore her. I will also point out why she's illogical and criticize her. She guilt trips me back whenever I do that, so I end up crying and feeling guilty and have to apologize.

My Fi is stubborn. Some of my values that are associated with feelings are strong so I refuse to change them. For example, talking about feelings openly is a sign of weakness to me. It makes me feel vulnerable since people can always use them as an attack. However, he sees that as a sign of strength because he will assume you accept your emotions and deal with them. I do not like dealing with negative emotions. I just cry it off and forget. He thought I do not trust him because I didn't trust others. It's not that I don't trust. I really feel uncomfortable doing it. Not just uncomfortable, I also don't know what the heck to say. My emotions make no sense to begin with! I guess I'm f**ked up since I can't even accept my feelings.

Now he said he has to wear a happy mask for me because he knows I can never accept emotions. That made him sad. Actions mean nothing to him, but words do. I'm the other way around.

I feel stupid and hate being an ISFP for the reasons above. I just don't know what to do besides hating myself. I'm emotionally inept and incapable of knowing what love is. I was only attached to him because of Oxycontin bond. I was never connected with him on a deep emotionally level. It was bound to fail. Now I'm afraid I'll never be able to emotionally understand anyone. I am so caught up with school to the point where it was the only thing I care about. I am taking 4 or 5 science courses per semester and have to study really hard for it. He doesn't seem to see the point of it because it doesn't help me find love. He doesn't understand why I'm busy because of school either. It's pointless to him to begin with.

I can reason with him, but he always say it's sad because he can never talk about feelings with me. I really avoid the "feeling talks." It's a nasty and negative conversation which lasts on an average of 3 hours. I can review a lot of materials in 3 hours! Why waste it on stuff which makes no sense?

Am I really a self-absorbed asshole in this case? I always feel that way since he's always sad. I DO NOT know how to fix it either. He only wants emotional talks while I only want to focus on the positive aspects. How on earth do I fix this?

I am sorry again for this annoying post.
 

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Maybe it's just that you two are not the right match right now. I wouldn't sacrifice any of your school work for the relationship if I were you.

Showing emotion isn't a sign of weakness. But if you feel uncomfortable talking about your emotions, you shouldn't have to.

That said, being an ISFJ, I don't think I would be inclined much to talk about my feelings, unless I feel hurt. But when I have been in relationships, this often only results in my feelings invalidated (maybe I often date ENTXs, so we are on completely different wavelengths). Talking about emotions for 3 hours at a time might bore me (unless I or my partner is really going through something bad that they need support for, or there has been a major argument).
 

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Firstly, while you're in school, especially while pressure is really on such that it feels you are constrained to focusing on it intensely is probably gonna be a time you, and him too, I imagine, and gonna be stressy anyway. This makes other issues harder to deal with. You're pushing a boulder up a hill while playing tennis against a tennis star.

I would call emotions logical, just not always tangible - you can't always 'see' them. You might feel them but it can be hard to tell what they mean/hard to know they're there at all/you won't necessarily feel something that is definately describable. They're another language. Like how humans had difficulty with illnesses in the past, as science developed and we learned to recognise patterns/developed better methods of detection, we have slowly become competent at diagnosing and treating something we once regarded as spiritual/not there/peculiar etc.

The unconscious mind is pretty complex, there's a whole bunch of stuff going on, we don't consciously construct dreams, but have them we do - that's the world of emotions and thoughts in the unconscious playing out, sort've like ghosts maybe.

Emotions are like the physical reactions of the body, you get punched, a bruise forms; something or someone emotionally hits you, and an emotional consequence will form, it will be subtly nuanced - individual, as it is related to a fluid thing: your mind and emotions, rather than something static: the rules of your body (biology). I've been told mourning after a bereavement takes three years - not always, and not exactly, but generally; it is a process of the mind and emotions healing, just as it might take someone 6 weeks to recover movement in an ankle that had been broken. As I said though, it is more subtle as it's dealing with something fluid rather than static. It's not maths, but there is an order to it. Something bad happens, you will, if you're a normally functioning being, experience a negative reaction. If something good happens, hopefully you will experience a positive reaction.

Personal experience/chemistry/the current circumstances effect the individuality of reactions. In an MBTI kind of way, when my ESFJ friend and I went to see Atonement, we both started crying at the same point, she started crying because of the emotions she was relating to, and all the people who had been hurt, and the sad end, I cried because the woman's hair was exactly the same as when the terrible thing had happened in the past, about 60 years later and the thing was so awful she's been...sort've...frozen in time, scarred in a way; the feel/dynamic of the whole scene triggered and encapsulated by this one element, to me.

One child is bullied, the other is excluded in an unagressive manner, the bullied child grows up with difficulties forming attachements to others, feels alone, is a cynic, the child who was excluded grows up with a push/pull, uncertain, paranoied mentality.
If we take the same children, and reverse their situations, but keep biological/family etc attributes the same, the child who was bullied, but in this scenario is excluded grows up with low self-esteem but is so self-effacing no one would notice, and they make friends/acquaintences when they're older, but tend towards fantasy life, and their family comfort zone. The child who was excluded, but in this scenario was bullied grows up with an elitist attitude, PTSD/phobia like reactions to reminiscent situations, and issues with self-harm. - I keep their temperaments and switch their situations, obviously not an exact prediction, but a projection of what seems most likely to me.

A quote from Criminal Minds:
"Gideon: Consider the three factors that determine behavior: bio, psycho, social.
Garcia: Sir?
Gideon: First, biology. Genetics gave him the predisposition. Add to that the second factor, psychology. Clearly a psychopath.
Garcia: Okay?
Gideon: That's the filter through which he experiences his environment. Finally, socialization. Life experiences. Like all of us, he's a complicated manifestation of all three.
Garcia: So, you put that all together and...
Gideon: Think of Frank as a living murder weapon. His genetics load the gun. His psychology aims it. Environment pulls the trigger."


Perhaps there is another level to emotions, I have them randomly enough that I could believe there is a spiritual dimension - like I'm connected to someone in another universe experiencing different things, and things feed through to me sometimes. Who knows.


"talking about feelings openly is a sign of weakness to me. It makes me feel vulnerable since people can always use them as an attack"
Being vulnerable to attack is a possition of weakness, are you also saying you think a person is being weak (lack of stregnth of character rather than in a possition of vulnerability) when they speak openly about their emotions?

"I really don't care about my emotions. I let them slide and don't think about them unless I am forced too. My mother is Fe dom, so I constantly explode. Why? I don't want to talk about feelings. If I know she's being illogical, then I'll ignore her. I will also point out why she's illogical and criticize her. She guilt trips me back whenever I do that, so I end up crying and feeling guilty and have to apologize."

I'm presuming when you say when your mum's being illogical you mean emotional (if not some of this won't apply)
Isn't it illogical to ignore rather than deal with a subject? It's not pleasurable for you, wouldn't it be logical to mitigate around it? Communication is a healthy and important part of relationships. Criticising someone while they're emotional surely is not a logical way to most easily deal with the situation?

We can get cut, tired, sick physically, we have much the same emotional side. You're neglecting a whole facet of yourself when you neglect your emotions. It's just as important to care for your physical needs as your emotional ones. Physical abuse isn't the only form of abuse. If feelings made no sense, or did not matter, there woud be no/no coherent consequences of emotional abuse, personal loss, embarassment, emotional scenes in movies etc etc.

Hmm, not sure about your ex's possition, 3 hours per yer average emotional conversation seems a little more legnthy than average - I can do this very happily, but when I've done it frequently in the past with someone in particular it's normally been not as healthy as your ex is making out, but maybe he's just more sorted than I am.

Perhaps try and sit down with your mum when you're both relaxed, or bring it up when you're both chilling out together and bring up the fact talking about your emotions isn't something you feel comfortable with, and that you undertsand she cares, but it's not a comfortable pressure for her to be trying to bring them up.

I don't know, but maybe if you both try to imagine words as actions and actions as words. I give you a hug, I'm 'saying' something, figuratively. I tell you I love you, exchange opinions, I'm demonstrating my affections, and interest.
I find words more exact, they'd be more evidence of an honest action for me, actions do not have a directly related/linearly obvious personal opinion content for me, nearly as much as words do. Though actions can be important - actions are normally where the air is cleared best - it feels more like an 'action'. There's a blurr between them in a way, a bit like emotions and thoughts.

"Some of my values that are associated with feelings are strong so I refuse to change them." Yet you say earlier that you don't care about your feelings, you even HATE them. They are the foundation for certain values to be held to unwaveringly. Is it when the cause is not clear to you that you don't care for them? I can definately agree/relate that sometimes feelings are just stupid/unecessary and should be supplied with "strap a pair on" and some ice cream/whatever floats your boat, but from experience - partially a friendship with an ISFP who has brought up very similar things to what you've written here, I think life would be a lot easier for you if you shed some new light on your emotions/the way you think about them. I think it's very positive you're comeing here to ask - no reason to appologise, and hating yourself for having problems? Everyone has problems, that's pretty much what life is, not being complete yet, making mistakes, not being perfect.

I think it'll depend to an extent on the ISFJ

"Actions mean nothing to him, but words do. I'm the other way around. " actions 'mean' alot to you. What do you mean when you say 'mean'? Are you an empty robot who displays the equation actions=meaning? Isn't a sense of meaning another part of our emotions - our 'spiritual' self, (I don't necessarily mean religious). What's interacting with the values inside you? Surely thoughts and emotions? And perhaps a mixture. If there was nothing interacting with them, they'd fall through you; there'd be nothing keeping them there.

Dealing with negative emotions, not necessary all the time, but I think it's healthy to strech that muscle; to know that fear isn't the thing that means you're not engaging with them.
What can hurt you from the inside?
You feel outwardly expressing emotions leads to vulnerability.
The feelings themselves hurt.
Either it's just the feelings which are the perpitrators, or it's not just them.
Is there anything else which makes this situation uncomfortable? Judgement on your own part?
You are the host/owner of these feelings, and yet you fear their overpowering you. Know you can be the master, get to know them if you can perhaps.

Longass post, hope this helps in someway - emotions suck.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Fi is hard to define. All of my values were made because of some strong emotions in the past. I can't seem to part with them.

I am quite afraid of my emotions actually. I do not want to have an emotional outburst and annoy people since I know they annoy me. Talking about emotions always bring out the negatives ones, and it doesn't make me any happier.

When I say actions mean a lot to me it actually meant that I understand his intentions more if he did something. I can give an example for that. If I am feeling down, he would talk to me rather than trying to do something physically, like giving a hug. I, on the other hand, would go for physical aspects first. I hug him, kiss him, stroke his cheek, etc. I barely use words mainly because I do not know what to say to make him smile. I could say "I love you," but he usually want me to say it 10 times before he takes it.

As for my mother, she gets emotional over stuff she shouldn't have. She forgets things sometimes, and I have to remind her. However, she does not trust me. She always thinks I'm lying to her so she screams at me so I apologize at the end. That isn't healthy. I know she's under a lot of stress. Her manipulative boyfriend made her go to a wedding last week. His daughter's mother, or his first girlfriend (ex now), was there too. She is in every single one of his family's event. When they were ready to take family photos, he told her to leave and stay in the car since she is not part of his family. She was very angry at him. He later became angry at her because he thought it's stupid to be mad at him for such thing. He is also alcoholic. Mom told him to quit for the entire two years they've dated. He never quit. Now I am her punchbag since she's really frustrated. I just say nothing back. Saying anything would intensify this situation.

Emotions do suck. I was always thinking why our bodies have to release those chemicals to mess with our mind. Eh, human interactions need them I suppose. From a biological perspective, we kinda need them. Bah...
 

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Fi is hard to define. All of my values were made because of some strong emotions in the past. I can't seem to part with them.

I am quite afraid of my emotions actually. I do not want to have an emotional outburst and annoy people since I know they annoy me. Talking about emotions always bring out the negatives ones, and it doesn't make me any happier.
Ignoring the fact that you sound mostly stressed out and everything. I think most ISFPs will relate to your description of not wanting to discuss 'feelings' since they don't really help the situation at all.

When I say actions mean a lot to me it actually meant that I understand his intentions more if he did something. I can give an example for that. If I am feeling down, he would talk to me rather than trying to do something physically, like giving a hug. I, on the other hand, would go for physical aspects first. I hug him, kiss him, stroke his cheek, etc. I barely use words mainly because I do not know what to say to make him smile. I could say "I love you," but he usually want me to say it 10 times before he takes it.
Does he realise this?

The unfortunate reality is that, a lot of ISFJs that are upset or in arguments will feel the need to discuss feelings and emotions to resolve issues, gain support, understand perspectives and want feedback. That's just how we are. This is how we'd want support, and how we would naturally offer support - a listening ear. You'd need to teach him, how you prefer to be treated in order for him to show comfort in a different way.

Our functions always clash. I don't understand him completely, so I just let it be and go with the flow. He said he tried to understand me, but that's all based on assumptions since I NEVER liked talking about my feelings. When I actually talked about them, I told him vague stuff that made no sense to his Fe, but it's perfectly reasonable for my Fi.
Introverted sensing is all about impressions. For me, gathering information, making assumptions and re-editing those assumptions when information suggests otherwise is part of what it is like to be an ISFJ. We're constructing a model of reality. It's impossible to understand someone fully, thus, we're always making assumptions in reality. It's just a matter of how accurate one is I guess? Accurate assumptions aren't a problem. Inaccurate assumptions grate on other people.

But I've got to admit...
Why does the way you describe your ISFJ sound like he's sort of oblivious and sort of patronizing?

Now he said he has to wear a happy mask for me because he knows I can never accept emotions. That made him sad. Actions mean nothing to him, but words do. I'm the other way around.
Sounds like a passive aggression.

I am so caught up with school to the point where it was the only thing I care about. I am taking 4 or 5 science courses per semester and have to study really hard for it. He doesn't seem to see the point of it because it doesn't help me find love. He doesn't understand why I'm busy because of school either. It's pointless to him to begin with.
I'm sorry. If he doesn't understand that, he's not a loving person in eyes. It sounds more like selfishness coming through. This is the ex that was insecure right? I remember you talking about him when I made a selfish rant a few months ago.

For the most part, there is trouble for a person who is more physical touch/acts of services than someone who is primarily words of affirmation (5 Love Languages).
 

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@KeroKai
Unfortunately, yes, it's him.
He does realize I don't like talking about feelings, but he said he wants me to learn how to do it. The troubles I have with "feeling talks" are unbelievable to him.

He's not oblivious and patronizing either. He just does not think about what I said when he's taken over by his feelings. He trusts his feelings more than the facts I've said to him. I told him many times about remembering what I said instead of going with his feelings. His response was he accepts who he is, and so he will go with his feelings.

Making assumptions based on impressions isn't my thing at all. Well, I do make hypothesis base on their actions, but I do not make that a concrete fact. I want to get to know the person first, then I would know whether that hypothesis is right or not. He made a lot of assumptions about me based on his feelings. Most of them are not true, and I do not know how to explain properly since most of them are emotional assumptions.

What else can I say? He accepts himself for who he is and does not want to be "someone else." I never told him to be a different person to begin with. I just wanted things to work better.
 

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@KeroKai
Unfortunately, yes, it's him.
He does realize I don't like talking about feelings, but he said he wants me to learn how to do it. The troubles I have with "feeling talks" are unbelievable to him. His response was he accepts who he is, and so he will go with his feelings.
There's not much that can be done about this situation.
I suppose the main focus is whether you want to or not. If not, then it's just a matter of telling him that he should accept that this is how you are. You can let him know that his needs are crossing your personal boundaries and pressuring you too much. As an FJ, that should technically make him back off if he's considerate. But honestly, in the long term, this sort of thing is a major incompatibility issue. It's a deal breaker really.

Making assumptions based on impressions isn't my thing at all. Well, I do make hypothesis base on their actions, but I do not make that a concrete fact. I want to get to know the person first, then I would know whether that hypothesis is right or not. He made a lot of assumptions about me based on his feelings. Most of them are not true, and I do not know how to explain properly since most of them are emotional assumptions.
Hmm. Well, when I talk about assumptions. It's more sort of your method of hypothesis testing.
I mean, what exactly is his reactions when you confront him about these assumptions, even if you aren't able to fully explain why they are wrong?

What else can I say? He accepts himself for who he is and does not want to be "someone else." I never told him to be a different person to begin with. I just wanted things to work better.
Unfortunately in situations like these. Compromise is needed... and well... I guess you probably already know that. It's why you feel that there is a clash.
 

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@KeroKai
I always have a week-long delay before I tell him anything. The more pressures I receive, the less likely I want to talk about my problems. I know he offers help, but it's suffocating sometimes. He's ready to help me when I'm not ready to tell him, and when I'm ready, he's no longer interested in helping me.

Of course he makes assumptions base on that, but I usually don't explain myself until I actually decide to open up. That leaves him very frustrated. He really wished I could tell him these kinds of thing earlier, but I couldn't. Words just wouldn't come out of my mouth.

It seems like most long-distance relationships need compromise. Activities together is almost important, and we are not having any besides phone conversations.
 

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@Wendixy

You've probably told him about this sort of thing before. But have you explained to him how most ISFPs naturally are? The difference between an ISFP and an ISFJ in terms of dealing with issues and so forth.

My ISFP girlfriend doesn't really like pressured to talk about her problems or about negative issues either. I've been given the impression that she's just one to prefer to deal with emotional problems herself by doing something about it. If it's something that can't be acted upon, then she'll first stew in annoyance for a bit (leave me alone~) and then try her best to just forget about the issue. She'll usually only bring up negative issues up if they are major things that are stressing her out to the breaking point. But in normal practice, she'll try to move on from problems without discussing it because she knows that these 'emotional' conversations tend to be negative conversations - bringing up all the problems again, guilt, blame and so forth, and that people won't really resolve their differences in view point. Granted, my ISFP is a e9.

I mean. From my perspective as an ISFJ who constantly wants to talk about problems straight away to resolve them. There have been times that I wished my partner would tell me about these issues when I ask her rather than receive a comment along the lines of 'Nothing or It doesn't matter'. There have been times where I'd be frustrated to the point where I blindly accuse her of pretending that there are no problems in the relationship (I always apologise afterwards).

At the end of the day...
From what I've gathered here about ISFPs as well. It's just who she is, and it's not that she's not comfortable about me, or needs time to learn how to open up or whatever. It's not something that can be changed easily. Basically, it's not right for me to shove my value of "Relationship problem discussions" on her, she processes things differently. Ultimately that's something I think your ISFJ will have to accept as well especially in a long distance relationship where conversation is most important.

It's only easier in person because activities fill up more of the interaction aspect than verbal conversations, but that doesn't mean the potential to clash is any less problematic. It's not something that will disappear just because people are in person, it'll only seem that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I've told him countless times. He doesn't not believe in personality types or psychology in general.
I relate to your ISFP. Any emotional conversations will bring up all the negatives I had.
I can also relate to what you said... He also told me I absolutely have no problems at all.

The break up happened because of all this. However, he wants the old time back, aka honeymoon phase. That's just impossible.
 

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I've told him countless times. He doesn't not believe in personality types or psychology in general.
I relate to your ISFP. Any emotional conversations will bring up all the negatives I had.
I can also relate to what you said... He also told me I absolutely have no problems at all.

The break up happened because of all this. However, he wants the old time back, aka honeymoon phase. That's just impossible.
You mentioned that he accepted himself, along with his feelings about discussing problems. You also said that he was aware of the type of person you are (not one to talk about problems quickly), and that you don't like being pressured. Can I ask whether he's actively trying to cut back on the whole pressuring aspect? Basically, is he compromising here? Do you feel that he's trying to be more understanding and accepting of who you are as a person, even though he also wants to help you 'open up'?

I think you could print out some of the stuff on the MBTI stuff. Hell, you could show him this thread (Granted, it'll probably cause a lot of drama) about other ISFJ/ISFP interactions. Alternatively, you could get a third person to speak to him about the issues.
 

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I will not get a third person to talk to him about this. Helping someone with relationship problems is a fiasco in general. Showing him this thread will make him feel depressed and lose all motivations.

He knows we are almost the opposite, but he misses the old time when I was emotionally unstable (diagnosed with depression) and needed someone. All I did during that time was hanging out with him since I had no motivation for anything. He wants to feel needed again. He wants me to go back to my old "self." No way on earth I would want to have clinically depression again. Now I feel stupid for what I've done with him. I hate myself for being clingy when we first started dating. Sad part is, he saw that clingy aspect as love. Things have reversed now. He became the clingy one.

As for the compromise, I think I am the conflict here. Often times he asks me to have a small chat with him, but I do not know what to talk about. He then waits for a response. Also, most of the topics I brought up does not interest him. I asked him what he wanted, and he said he wants to talk about relationships and having a family. That's a conversation killer for me. He's trying to take me back while I want to focus on school.

I would walk away from it if this was me. However, I will not tell him if I'm sad about this. Hell, moving on isn't easy, so there's no point to tell him to begin with. I would also avoid any emotional moments. I want no drama in that. He also said he wants to walk away, but he would feel said and would want to die. I have emotions as well. That kind of message just breaks me. That's the main reason why we are still talking. We are different after all. I would love to let go, but he wants the old feelings back. I've talked about this with him countless times. All of his responses just stab me in the heart. I know I wouldn't say anything like that to make him feel guilty and stay. I don't know how he can move on like this. I don't even think he wants to move on.
 

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You're pretty much right about the situation from the looks of things. Then again, when he does decide to move on... don't be surprised if he asks for some form of closure. It's pretty much a given - a final letter and all that. x.x

Certainly sounds like a really tricky and messy position to be in. Hope you resolve things best as possible without too many hurt feelings.
 

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I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes suicidal either. Exactly the kind of mess I need right before final exams.
Thank you for all of your input.
 

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Am I really a self-absorbed asshole in this case? I always feel that way since he's always sad. I DO NOT know how to fix it either. He only wants emotional talks while I only want to focus on the positive aspects. How on earth do I fix this?
Gotta take the good with the bad. Nobody really likes dealing with negative emotions, but it's necessary. I think a lot of your problems stem from this. If you don't learn to deal with them, this story will become a pattern in your life.
 
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