Fight Club
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Marla's a intp, I think.
Tyler Durden is INFJ - social revolutionaries (good and bad) would consistently be INFJ's.
ESTP's aren't worldview dominant (i.e. wouldn't possess that strength of hatred of society) and aren't extremists - Ni/Fe/Ti/Se sees the flaws in society and goes about bringing his vision to reality (starting at Ni to finishing at Se).
ESTP's aren't worldview dominant (i.e. wouldn't possess that strength of hatred of society) and aren't extremists - Ni/Fe/Ti/Se sees the flaws in society and goes about bringing his vision to reality (starting at Ni to finishing at Se).
Tyler - ENTP. The explosives, the soap, the Tao-like quotes, the need for admiration. He has a well-developed Se, but a determined ENTP can resemble an ESTP. The robbery with the gun, the philosophy afterwards - very N, not S. I've never known an ESTP to spout their own philosophy like that.
Narrator: I dunno, but ISTJs aren't about that cynical reflection, in my experience. I would guess "I," "N," "F/T," "J" but I have no clue if INFJs are like that as I don't know them. INTJ is not right.
Marla: INxP, though I'd lean towards INFP.
Narrator: I dunno, but ISTJs aren't about that cynical reflection, in my experience. I would guess "I," "N," "F/T," "J" but I have no clue if INFJs are like that as I don't know them. INTJ is not right.
Marla: INxP, though I'd lean towards INFP.
The problem is that I just don't see any overarching goals that he wants for society other than for people to cut loose, get back to basics, and live. These things just scream SP.
I think you and Tony are giving Tyler too much credit. I think he made a lot of decisions on sheer impulse that just happened to work out for him. Remember, SPs have a way with words they can spout off a lot of things that sound deep, but really aren't. That's what I see Tyler's "philosophy" as mostly being: things that sound good but don't have a lot of depth to them.
Se doms want to live and experience life through their 5 senses, not change/create/destroy society or systems like Ni doms.
Ah, but what is an ESTP's inferior function? An ESTP who doesn't have control over their Ni could be a very scary thing. They'd be persuasive, reckless, and driven.
Plus, Tyler is most certainly not a J. He's much too unpredictable for that.
They do have Ni, but as you said it's their inferior function so it is very (the most) draining for them - Se dom's just don't have the energy to push forward with change/creation/destruction of society or systems like Ni doms (Ni doms have Ni as there lead and most stimulating function).
J is not equal to predictability - especially in dominant Ni's.
He took a job as a movie projector just so he could splice pornography into family films. This is not impulse, nor SP. Yes, an SP wants people to live, but in a very impulsive way. They wouldn't plot these things deviously like Durden does. ENTPs are all about the visionary big plan, whether they are currently successful or not. An ESTP would not get distracted by all the things Durden does that don't contribute to the plan. The plan could easily be an ENTP plan, as it is seen as a vast improvement over the current situation. I think it's more than just wanting people to "live." You have to admit Tyler is a plotting NT, and extroverted. If he's not ENTP, he's ENTJ.
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I would be willing to back ENTJ for Durden. Changing perspectives in others is a big Ni give away, and creating a system is what NJ's do best. Fight Club, could definitely be categorized, as such. An ENTJ might be more likely to actually "do" the reprogramming and Te dom could lead to a complete disregard of being swayed away from it. Plus, he was intended to represent most of what The Narrator wasn't, an outgoing, charismatic guy, that was "harder" and "had it together". So...an ENTJ, comfortable in his ESTP mask, would be my best shot. Especially, since I believe the "ESTP projection" was intended as a symbolic representation of the type of person, socially speaking, that was someone others would deem "worthy" of listening to and following.
You know, the ENTJ line of thinking made me think of something else. Perhaps you could type things like this:
The Narrator - INTJ (maybe INFJ)
Tyler - ESTP
The narrator has a vision for what he wants, but he clearly doesn't have the social skills to attain them. He creates Tyler to do all of them. This is a bit more clear in the book where it is more explicit that Tyler was created so the narrator could get Marla. He creates Tyler (an ESTP) to carry out that vision. Hypothetically speaking, this could be a very dangerous combination: a charismatic ESTP guided by a visionary (and disgruntled) INTJ.
After all, I know that ENTPs and ENTJs can be charismatic, but I just don't see them as having the charisma to do the things that Tyler does. I suppose an ENFx might, but I have difficulty believing that Tyler is an NF for reasons I can't place my finger on. ESTPs can be very convincing people who don't have all of the moral or logical restrictions an NT or NF might.
Plus, Tyler's way of dress is very un-NT and very un-NF. It's flashy and stylistic, which is a signature of an ESTP. An NT's clothing will tend to be purely functional without much thought about style. An NFJ might be inclined to dress up, but mostly as a way of getting other people to like them. Tyler's clothing seems more about grabbing your eye and getting peoples' attention than it is about saying "this is a really likeable person".
His name Robert Paulson
I think your right about Tyler Durden. All of his actions are impulsive acts of rebellion for the sake of rebellion. He really isn't deep at all. Also he is the antithesis of The Narrator, who I'd peg as Intj mainly because he was very systematic and insightful. Before splitting consciousness he was pretty straightlaced and organized but not in that traditional sense more like he saw it as the reasonable way to be.
Robert Paulson seems like an ESFP. Just a guess though.
I think your right about Tyler Durden. All of his actions are impulsive acts of rebellion for the sake of rebellion. He really isn't deep at all. Also he is the antithesis of The Narrator, who I'd peg as Intj mainly because he was very systematic and insightful. Before splitting consciousness he was pretty straightlaced and organized but not in that traditional sense more like he saw it as the reasonable way to be.
Robert Paulson seems like an ESFP. Just a guess though.
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I was just about to suggest your idea too. So I second your opinion.
I was too quick to write off INTJ for the narrator. The dry humor is very INTJ. I don't know INTJs well enough to know if the angst is, but maybe so. If it is, it's rarely on display like this. I haven't read the book, but in the movie, the narrator apparently has no clue what he wants - he's still dumbfounded by the extent of Tyler's creation, even in the end. INTJ still doesn't sound right, at least in the movie, because of the cluelessness and angst.
It would make sense that the narrator would create an ESTP as a charismatic alter-ego, but that defeats our argument, because he's not going to get it right, or blow it way out of proportion. For sake of argument, though: Tyler's dress is an anti-style, consistent with his contrary take on everything. From the 70s disco style on the plane to the dirty, ratty 1950s women's bathrobe he probably picked up at the Salvation Army. He wears other people's once fashionable, but hopelessly out of style discards. I don't see it as a way to say "look at me" as a statement of "I can say and do whatever I want, while you are conforming to societal norms" You could even say it is functional to his purpose. It's also an ENTP's nature to be contrary.
All the reading about Beebe and archetypes I've been doing gave me another idea.
First of all, the narrator. Think about his work environment. It's dehumanizing and focused on efficiency (which aren't necessarily things that an INTJ would hate as much as the narrator does). Plus, I think he feels genuine empathy for people like Robert Paulson. I think he's an INFP.
Now, the mistake we made is assuming that Tyler Durden was a complete separate personality. I think he represents the "arms" of the narrator's shadow personality: Ni and Se. I understand what you're getting at in terms of dress, but still don't think that his way of dressing could be motivated without an Se component. Combine that with Ni's diabolical vision, remove any T or F component to balance things out, and you'd get Tyler Durden.
I think that what made Tyler go away at the end wasn't the narrator's attempt at suicide. Rather, I think it was the fact that he "owned" Tyler. He realized Tyler wasn't a separate entity, but was a part of himself.
That's possible. The only quibble is the organized, neat apartment, but that's pretty minor. He has apparent F, but it's not necessarily on public display. The empathy could simply be in his mind. What about INTP? Can't an INTP be like that if he's narrating to himself?
Well, the scenes show him obviously believing he coexists with Tyler. INFPs and ESTPs are duals in socionics, so there is a symmetry. I argue that there is NT in the mix somewhere, though. There is devious planning. An ENTP goes around saying "you are not your #%$^&ing khakis, you are not the contents of your wallet" is going to be as contrary to that as possible. The opposite of spending money on mass marketed bland "fit-in" khakis is to wear other people's used, loud rejects. This is how you get that dress without Se.
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