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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
First off I never thought that I'd be on a forum like this. I recently (few months ago) started dating a girl I really like. She's really...different. Shy and reserved at first, but bright and bubbly once you get to know her. Naive and idealistic, but really logical when she puts her mind to it. Messy as hell, but extremely detail-oriented. Very pretty, but in an unconventional, clumsy tomboy way. She's kind and intelligent, quirky and funny. She's timid, but she stands up for her principles. I really, really like her, but she's kind of cagey, and she doesn't have emotional reactions. Well, she has em. She seems to hide them from me, tho, but I can tell that she's upset.

She mentioned MBTI, and I took the test. I'm an ESTP, and I'll admit that I've been a player in the past. I tried to play her in high school. She saw through my game after two weeks of dating, got this cold fury look on her face, then dumped me. She avoided me for three years, and I backed off. I finally convinced her to give me another chance now (years later). She says that two healthy people of any type can make it work. I keep reading stuff about how INFPs and ESTPs hate each other. I've dated girls that fit the INFP type before. They got on my last damn nerve. (The type of girl I usally get along with is an ESFP, according to my girl. They're fun and all, but I get bored with them.) I really like this particular girl, though. She's super sensitive and takes a while to process her emotions, though.

Bad thing is--My buddies don't like her. She gave them the cold fury look when they said something really offensive and sexual to her and snapped at them. I still really, really like her. I tried talking to other girls to see if I could move on quick (after my friends said they didn't want her around), if it doesn't work. Like I always do. I felt so guilty when I did it and it didn't work. I compared them to her. They were gorgeous, playful, fun, charming, but I got nothing. I just don't...feel anything around them. I still feel something really strong for her that I don't feel around other women and I wonder why that is. She gets on my nerves sometimes, but I can't get her out of my head. I've been hung up on this girl since high school. Instantly intensely attracted to her. Felt a pull towards her. Just wanted to protect her from other guys like me. But also kind of wanted to have her for myself? Even though I was seeing these two other girls my buddies still love to death.

We've been together for months, and I think about her all the effing time. The sex is insane. Best I've ever had. She gets me to think about weird stuff I've never even thought about before. She calls me on my crap just with a look. She tells me she doesn't want me to change who I am, she just wants me to do my best. I've always had girls try to change me. She doesn't treat me like a project. I tell her things I can't tell my friends. She seems to have this weird calming affect. I feel like a damn sap and I hate it sometimes, but I really like her, even though it's not logical. We fight a lot, and she seems to hate conflict a lot... unless my friends push her. I just want to figure this out.

Any advice? What do I do?
 

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We fight a lot, and she seems to hate conflict a lot... unless my friends push her. I just want to figure this out.

Any advice? What do I do?
I don't have any advice for as a whole, but don't let her get between you and your friends.

I let my ex get between myself and my friends and eventually ended up in a hole where I became too dependent on her. Sometimes some girls don't realize it, but them getting upset with a dude's friends is a form of latent jealousy and unhealthy possessiveness imo (That's not always the case though you know her better).

They may even be genuinely offended, but tbh her feelings of offence are hers to deal with and come to terms with. You cannot control what your friends say or will say and you can't control what she feels and should feel. They should compromise and learn to get along with one another.

Anyways, that's about the only thing I will give advice on. Don't let your friends go unless they do something so bad that that's a deal-breaker between your friends and you. Her offense really shouldn't be that deal breaker, but you know the situation and the things that are said better than me.

I've read from others as well as it's been my own experience, Younger ESTP's have a tendency to become co-dependent, they have a tendency to prioritize their lover over every one else and they will burn bridges for their lovers. They are also protective and will fight with others on the behalf of their loved one. Watch out for these potential problem areas. Feelings override rationality. Big problem area at times especially given the kind of infatuation you're describing ATM.
 

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wow, my last ex tested as an ESFP so I think there'd be some similarity in the physical realm (maybe not emotionally, since we at least had Fi in common)
but my best friend is also an ESTP so if anything relates to her, I can use that too LOL

(warning you ahead of time I talk too much so it's prob gonna be long. I'll jst underline the more important things if it helps)

I think that, from the outside, there are 3 things you need to address
1. the relationship between you, her, and your friends
2. the fact that you fight a lot
3. the fact that you seem to idealize her and kinda "demonize" other girls

So for #1, how important is it to you that your friends and girlfriend get along? That can be important to some, and unimportant to others. If it's important to you, and you have to make a "this or that" decision to choose one of them... then in the future you'll regret that divide being made. So if it's important to you that they get along, and neither tries to compromise, then it's not going to work out and you shouldn't compromise your needs on something so fundamental. Personally, I think that (whoever is creating the conflict) needs to work on meeting your needs here or actually explain to you their reasoning. because I don't think it's fair for you to be in that position
If it's important, is it possible to get both sides to "give" a little, for YOU? (something they have in common should be caring about you) OR is there something toxic that your friends notice about her/something toxic she notices about your friends ? And my last thought on this is to reiterate: can your friends and your girlfriend try to appreciate each other/get along for you?


For #2, is fighting a lot typical in your relationships or is it something new? Are the fights over tiny things, or are they usually justified? (any emotional reaction is "justified" but I mean more like, does something very "big" happen which causes a fight, or does it seem like you're always fighting over insignificant things). I definitely relate to the "hating conflict" thing you said. My ex and I dated for ~1 year and only fought once in the days leading up to our breakup; the thing is, throughout that time there were problems that neither of us addressed that could've been solved if we had actually cared to bring them up.
If there are legitimate problems that you're fighting about, I'd say it's good you at least care to bring them up. If you're fighting that much, I think that you both need to try to "work with each other". If there's fighting, there's a reason, and it could be that one of you needs something from the other that they're not getting, or whatever !! but, I think it's important to TELL EACH OTHER what you need, tell each other if something bothers you. And listen to each other, try to understand each other. Work TOGETHER not against each other, because you're not fighting to hurt each other, you're fighting because you care and you're frustrated. care together, be frustrated together, you have to work through it like a team :proud: My ESTP best friend and her boyfriend (not sure of type) used to fight so much, and struggled to see where the other was coming from, but they made a huge effort to actually listen to each other and try to explain their emotions more and it helped them a lot. Now, it's pretty normal for them to just hear each other out.
I'm very closed off and it doesn't always come naturally to me to be affectionate and to remind someone in words and actions that I care about them. My ex really needed me to do that, but never told me, so I never improved there and our relationship suffered! If he would've told me what he needed from me, I'd have done it right away because I loved him. On the other hand, I needed him to be more understanding of a lottttt of things, but never told him and, again, ~kabo0o0o0om~ goes the relationship LOL. It's tough when someone doesn't express themselves how you do, but I think the key is to try to understand each other and to tell each other what you need.


For #3, this might just be my preachy values, but you can like her without hating alllll the other girls. I feel like it's important to think about whether you really like her because she's her, or if you like her because she's a nice change from girls you typically associate with. Again, relating back to my ex, he would sometimes say things like "you're not like other girls I've dated" or he'd talk about how other girls were "shallow" and it'd bother me. I don't CARE about other girls, in fact I'd prefer you treat other girls decently because they're humans who deserve respect.......!! But yeah, I'm not sure if you share those thoughts with her (bc on the other hand, if you BOTH feel that way and it's kinda just a light-hearted thing you joke about, that seems fine. you're in a relationship so if you agree and it's not a source of conflict, that's a-ok). I guess the reason I got stuck on that is (idk if your girlfriend feels this way so take it w/ a grain of salt lol INFPs can have very diff values from each other) but I was pretty bothered by that idea & by him basing my value on the fact that I was "better". I didn't want to be special because I "wasn't like other girls", I wanted to be special because I was ME. Because he was special to me because he was who he was. Sorry if that makes 0 sense, I over-complicate feelings a lot, but yeah. It's a very INFP-like thing to have a strong sense of "who you are" and to want someone to just love you to your core, because that's how we love. So we worry that someone else isn't as invested as we are, and as a result... even if we love someone with every last bit of our heart and soul, we might be very cold and closed off.


Overall, my advice is: If it seems like you need clarity @ this point, talk to each other and find out what each other needs. If you care enough about each other to work together there, then I see no reason it shouldn't work out.^^



Not sure if any of that answered your questions, but if you have more feel free to ask :tongue:
sorry again if I rambled, I wasn't sure what would/wouldn't be helpful, and I guess the more information you get about INFPs the better off you'd be lol
 

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It appears to be quite a common pairing, perhaps a result of type differences rather than in spite of them. Most of the guy's I've dated have been STP's, including my long term relationship. The attraction is intense, but the relationships are hard work. They definitely can work though and both sides can learn a lot from the other.

Have you told her that she and your friends getting along is very important to you?
I believe she will make the effort to overlook certain things about your friends, if she's aware. I expect there will be some things which she will never 'let slide', but knowing it means a lot to you will keep those things to a minimum.

If them getting along doesn't seem likely, you can always keep them separate for the most part. I wouldn't advise giving her up to please your friends or vice versa. They don't need to always be combined.
 
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Bad thing is--My buddies don't like her.
Would you allow them to destroy your relationship with someone you really admire? I'm not saying you to leave your friends because of her, but the reverse is also a mistake.
She gave them the cold fury look when they said something really offensive and sexual to her and snapped at them.
Why did your friends treat her like that? If their usual behavior is like that, it's absolutely their problem not hers.

I still really, really like her. I tried talking to other girls to see if I could move on quick (after my friends said they didn't want her around)
It looks like despite repeating that "you like her", you are ready to sacrifice your relationship for the sake of your friends and even worse, aren't concerned about hurting her. You already mentioned that your friends offend her, and you still take their part.
End your relationship with this girl. She deserves much more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hey, @Jawz Thought I might as well reply to this, seeing as it’s helped me process her and I breaking up a lot.

Tbh, the friend that offended her was a real a/shole, even by my standards. I didn’t know at the time, but he called her the c-word and hit on her behind my back. A few other people backed it up. She was furious and cut him off. She seemed to hit it off with one or two of my other friends. I wish that we’d had better communication about what happened and why she was so PO.

Codependency wise—she got freaked out when I tried to defend her after another guy hit on her and harassed her. Said that she didn’t want me to lose my temper and pop him, because she didn’t want me to get in trouble. Also mentioned that she’d handled it in her way and would’ve appreciated emotional support more than violent taking up for damsel in distress style defense.

Ultimately it was good for both of us that we split. She had more emotional needs than I knew how to handle and I needed to mature more. I still just miss her.
 

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Ultimately it was good for both of us that we split. She had more emotional needs than I knew how to handle and I needed to mature more. I still just miss her.
Sorry to hear that man ... That bolded part isn't a slight on you at all because I have come to notice that us ESTP's tend to be quick when it comes to the matters of the heart. Consequences is not on our minds. We like to fix as we go along. It can work in some relationships, but when we're younger the fixes are usually surface level.

I'm of the mind now in my own 30's that ESP types tend to love to get into relationships but we need to mature a lot more before we do. Any failed relationship is a good starting point to recognize what's missing in us and compensate for it.

Best of luck in the future. Keep being active and whatever you do, don't lock yourself up in a room. Keep meeting friends and don't make any more decisions that upset the current routine because even though we hate routine as ESTP's it's good for us in the long-run especially when going through temporary setbacks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@poco a poco

“That can be important to some, and unimportant to others. If it's important to you, and you have to make a "this or that" decision to choose one of them... then in the future you'll regret that divide being made.”

I’m mulling this over, because previous gfs i’ve talked to said that they kind of hated my friends too. They went along with it, because they didn’t want to screw up the relationship. My current ex called them on what she didn’t like immediately. When they pushed, she glared at them and got snarky. Even she admitted that wasn’t necessarily healthy. She never asked me to stop hanging out with them nor did she ever say a bad word about them to me. She just didn’t want to hang out with them. My friends bashed her and talked about her behind her back and refused to let her come to any of our get togethers. My ex asked if she could come along once or twice and then stopped once she sensed she wasn’t wanted. She didn’t like them very much but she still seemed to want to try for my sake.

I’m kind of angry with my friends because I feel like that they made the decision for me. She left, partially because she said that it was important to her that she had some sort of relationship with her boyfriend’s friends. It killed her to be left out.

She got better about communicating her needs towards the end. I really loved this girl—the first woman I’ve ever loved. I want to process this and figure out what to do, so, if she comes back or i met someone like her I can be a better person.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
@poco a poco
“It's a very INFP-like thing to have a strong sense of "who you are" and to want someone to just love you to your core, because that's how we love. So we worry that someone else isn't as invested as we are, and as a result... even if we love someone with every last bit of our heart and soul, we might be very cold and closed off.”

GOLD
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@Kynx
“The attraction is intense, but the relationships are hard work. They definitely can work though and both sides can learn a lot from the other.”

Attraction was pretty insane. And not just on a purely physical level. Did learn a lot from her. She forced me to accept that I have to grow up (in her own kind, unassuming way).

Glad to hear that you and your SO worked it out in a LTR. If you don’t mind me asking, did you all fight a lot? What are some good conflict resolution skills to work on?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
@Jawz Thanks for all of this. I really do appreciate it. Trying to stick to my extroverted routine right now, like you suggested. Seeing friends and watching movies. Went to AA as well. Thinking that I shouldn’t be in a LTR right now and have to get my shit together.

Oddly enough, she’s with someone that tests as an ENTP now. Who would’ve thunk it? Hope she’s okay. Hurts to think of someone else enjoying all of her adorable little laughs, smiles, and thoughts, learning about her quirks. Watching the excited look on her face when she tries something new and out of the box for her. Oh, well. Wasn’t meant to be.

“I'm of the mind now in my own 30's that ESP types tend to love to get into relationships but we need to mature a lot more before we do. Any failed relationship is a good starting point to recognize what's missing in us and compensate for it.”

Tend to agree. Thought I was ready. Clearly wasn’t the case. Best of luck to you as well!
 

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My advice is to keep seeing her. You like her and want her.
your friends aren’t fucking her—or you. But your heart mind and dick wants what she has. Seems a nobrainer to me.

I am an istp in love with an infp man. He challenges my morals, assumptions, and pushes me to expand and deepen in terms of expression, receiving and giving. it is hot as fuck. if this make you happy, do it.

if the arguing is a problem talk to her to find solutions. is she has maturity and geniune care for you she will meet you halfway.
 

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Oddly enough, she’s with someone that tests as an ENTP now. Who would’ve thunk it? Hope she’s okay. Hurts to think of someone else enjoying all of her adorable little laughs, smiles, and thoughts, learning about her quirks. Watching the excited look on her face when she tries something new and out of the box for her. Oh, well. Wasn’t meant to be.
I know this feeling all too well. But it lasted only a few months, if that. I went through a very bad break up 7 years ago and I made some very poor decisions right after. One of them was locking myself up in a room and doing drugs to help me sleep at night. It got to a point where the extra drugs in my system made me suicidal. Took a lot of therapy to recover lol but now I'm ok.

Just be outgoing and take care of your mental and physical health. You will find someone else. I did within a few months and we've been together since.
 

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I don't think INFP's and ESTP's are the best pairing at all, long term. This is based on an INFP friend of mine who's married to an ESTp. They have a lot of challenges, with the INFP wanting/needing a lot of emotional engagement and the ESTP unable/unwilling to give it. INfp sees the ESTp as very callous and selfish at times. The estp doesn't 'get' the INFP's artsy hobbies/interests and diminishes them. The INFP, I think ,wishes she had someone a bit more sensitive and feeling-oriented/intuitive, who she could connect with in a better way.

I think INFP's are best with other N's, and ESTPS, best with 'S's", personally.
 

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I think INFP's are best with other N's, and ESTPS, best with 'S's", personally.
Let me qualify that with *some* S's, restricted to ISFJ and ISTJ . .and I would stretch that to include ESTJ's as well.

ESFP's are amazing short-term, but not long term. The inferior Ni in ESFP's manifests very differently than the one in ESTP's and so it's not a good match based on experience.

ISFP's are kinda like fairies (to me anyways) and their emotional needs will get pretty hard to navigate long term as well. One of my BFF's is an ISFP and she's much too emotional for me to be in a relationship with.

ISTP female .. now that is interesting. I think I know one IRL (my wife's brother's girlfriend). I have never met another so I don't know how a relationship with one go. When the four of us get together though, usually we're the only two really chatting up a storm and it's good conversation where we see eye-to-eye. I think it's the Ti that works.

ESFJ is a no for me. My brother's wife is one and while I think she's a sweetheart, she has way too much of a huge social life and therefore I see how much it drains my ENTJ brother and they've basically started living separate lives. I expect that to happen if I was in a relationship with an ESFJ as well.
 

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@Kynx
“The attraction is intense, but the relationships are hard work. They definitely can work though and both sides can learn a lot from the other.”

Attraction was pretty insane. And not just on a purely physical level. Did learn a lot from her. She forced me to accept that I have to grow up (in her own kind, unassuming way).

Glad to hear that you and your SO worked it out in a LTR. If you don’t mind me asking, did you all fight a lot? What are some good conflict resolution skills to work on?
Yes, we fought a lot and broke up quite a few times, too.
A high level of mutual understanding is important, since many of our fights were due to misinterpreting each others motives and intentions.
Best way we've found for dealing with conflicts is approaching them with humour, whenever possible. Soh is one of our few similarities, though. I'm not sure if it would be as effective otherwise.
 
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