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INFJ still fits least bad
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, so I've been considering my type, and I spent a lot of my life in a sort of self defense, mode, and despite the fact that this thoroughly affected my disposition, certain traits always shined through, so I'm going to give a thorough description of my disposition from childhood to adulthood, a description of how I think, how I debate, how I approach situations, and I'm going to present the case that I may very well be INTJ, and what I would like to see is for others to poke holes into this argument so I can thoroughly examine counter-arguments to determine if they are compelling enough to negate my initial postulation and to thus abandon it, so let's begin with:

A Short Biography:
Going back to early childhood, I can barely remember things that occured in my life. I more clearly remember the obsessive sorts of thoughts that invaded my mind. I thought a lot about the concept of consciousness and wondering how that works. I would internally laugh at the idea that everyone is 'me' and everyone is 'here' and someone else is always 'there'. I would wonder if I wasn't born if someone else with my consciousness would have been born at another time. I struggled with not having the vocabulary to truly articulate the things I wondered about. In kindergarten, when I learned about the alphabet and numbers, I learned the alphabet was finite, but understood that numbers could go on forever, and I believe this caused me to wonder if there could be a potentially infinite amount of letters, and I wondered what other sounds letters could make.
When I was a child, I was incredibly self conscious about sharing my ideas with other people, especially with adults, as I feared they might consider my thoughts as wrong or stupid. I did, however, freely share facts that I learned in books, skills that I felt more confident in such as drawing, or ask questions such as "is anything really impossible?" and listen to their answers. I'll still never forget one answer being "sticking a buick up your nose." I remember contemplating on that sentence for way longer than I probably should have.
I remember when I was a young child and a neighbour showed me how time dilation worked. I have no idea why he started this, but he showed me how if I travelled at the speed of light and returned home, everyone would be thousands of years older, and I matter of factly replied to him "they'd all be dead." As a young child, I had no problem contemplating the idea of time dilation, although I can't pretend I really understood the underlying principles behind what I was being taught. I just was someone who watched sci-fi movies such as Star Trek: the Journey home, and could see a link between space travel and time travel, even if I didn't grasp the details.

Okay, enough boring you all with my early childhood experiences, moving on to adult experiences.
I spent a lot of my life living with a mom with rather unbalanced extraverted feeling, to the point of feeling that how she feels about any given thing, (usually what was taught to her) is what everyone should feel, and often had a way of trying to control how I felt about things.
I spent a lot of my time, thus escaping from as much direct interaction with her as possible. Beyond that, I had at least one job in the food service industry, which is a heavy sensor industry. It requires quick response times, and being in tuned with the external environment. I knew I was always a bit disconnected to the outer world. It's like an extra layer of abstraction that always slowed my responses to external stimuli. It didn't help that at home, I might look at mess, and then think "eh, that's a mess, let me get on my computer." For me, there's never really a strong connection to the things I perceive and a direct course of action. It's basically, I perceive things, and I filture what is relevant to a particular thing I'm working on or a world view I'm developing. Dirty laundry is rarely relevant to the things I'm generally pre-occupied with, and thus, I just pass them by like a borg sees through an invader they don't see as a threat. Of course, over time, I've learned to develop a rationale that helps me with mundane things like: "This laundry is dirty and if I don't wash it, all my underwear will be dirty and if I try to wear them again, I'll be itchy and that will distract me from the more relevant things, so I'd better put those things to wash, before that actually happens."

More on how I think: I believe that mitigating future discomfort is often worth present discomfort. A minor example might be. If I have a choice between a nice meal and a less nice, meal, I'll often have the less nice meal tonight so I have the nicer meal to look forward to. When it comes to how I think of abstract things, it's not always easy to explain.
I am a detailed visualizer. I tend to not think that I pay much attention to my present environment. I mean, I'm always seeing what's there, but I don't really pay all that much attention to it, but I'll remember more after the fact, sometimes.
I don't like to pat myself on the back too much, but I find that I'm an excellent problem solver, and here's why:
I tend to mix analytical skills with creativity. I have a vast imagination, by which I can simulate various possibilities, and I generally can instantaneously rule out the less viable options in order to have a few choices and a set of pros and cons regarding each. I do like to optimize. While I do find the borg's collectivism off-putting, I honestly do sympathise with their tendency to continually optimize. I might be frustrating in how I will, over time, change my opinions on things, because after pondering on something, I might think "this is a better way to think about something," and good is good, but better is better.

So going to how I debate. I feel stupid, if I present a thought that doesn't have a basis on factual reality. I sometimes double check my sources and look and think "is there something I might have overlooked, and make sure that I understood something correctly. Sometimes I do get emotional, but my emotional responses are generally intense but short lived. I will feel something and sometimes react, but then I'll analyze and think, "Yeah but is what I said true, does it contribute to meaningful discourse?" Usually though, I think through my responses, and try to look at them from different angles before I respond to a discussion. Usually, what causes me to make a snap reaction, as I call them, is my frustration over when people let themselves be incredibly biased by their political alignments and don't bother to analyze original sources beyond the equally biased media. I figure, there's no point in convincing people who won't look beyond the constraints of their tribalistic ideologies, so I might as well have a bit of fun getting a rise out of them.

When dealing with situations such as conflict, I tend to seek a resolution. I dislike conflict, but accept it as a necessary evil. When conflicts arise, I sometimes get emotional with them, but the major driving force is to create a solution that might prevent a future conflict on the same situation. I think the emotional touchiness stems a bit from how my mom would often put me in a lose-lose situation regarding this. For instance, in the past we'd have an argument over how I didn't get up early enough even though I often worked night. In my mind the solution was to set an alarm and arrange my sleep schedule so that I could get up early for her. Then she'd continue to complain, anyway. Or, if I didn't do enough of the washing up, I'd set reminders to wash up more, then she'd complain about something I failed to years ago, which simply rendered my present improvements irrelevant. It was an unfair game she played at. Still shaking my head at it. I think, being out of that environment benefited me a great deal.

I did as Red Panda astutely observed once, go through a period of self hatred, wherein I did deconstruct myself a great deal. As much as I hate to admit it, Veggie is actually correct in her assessment of my past actions, but like my mom, she also has the tendency to bring up past actions without regard for present improvements, just like the very same actions my mom committed that nearly drove me to insanity. I realize, looking back, when I responded impulsively, I was with my mom. I don't think that was a coincidence.
Anyway, the deconstructive mode was in response to my glaring lack of self-awareness in the past. I would be aware of my conscious thought process, but would often fail to be aware of how my actions would come across to others. whatismore, I spent much of my life failing to acknowledge my deepest flaw: a tendency towards attention seeking. I don't know if I had a propensity for attention seeking, because as a child, my parents didn't give me a lot of attention, and maybe grew ashamed of my desire for attention, because childhood experience taught me that I wasn't worthy of attention. At any rate, my shadow would be describe as an attention seeking diva. I feel so much more empowered simply admitting that.

Anyway, if anyone has any compelling evidence as to why I am not INTJ, please present it, if nothing else, it might rule a type out. I know I keep circling around introverted intution, over all when considering my type. It resonates with me more than any other function, especially after hearing Jung's description of it.
 

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INTJ 5w4 531 sx/sp
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This is more observation than a reason, but- I think it's funny that when we examine our type, we look at how strongly our emotions played out in certain situations. We fall into our own false stereotype. i do the same thing, "hm, I reacted emotionally in this situation- I wonder if I'm more feely than I think I am."

YES feelers can process emotions better than we can- but without being able to I don't think it's something we can identify from self-reflection. It's like having a blind person judge what something is like based on colors.

I suck at typing people but from my experience, feelers usually will look at how a decision affects the group or people as a whole, whereas we look at the overview and what makes the most sense rationally.

I think it's also tougher for us as women because we are supposed to act in a certain way- and especially if you had a feeler mom- unhealthy or not- that probably plays into it.

I dunno, my 2 cents. I wish I were more helpful because your advice is always so helpful for me. :p
 
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Basically you want me to play devil advocate and prove you you are not INTJ? Fine let's do that. Sounds like fun.

You do seem to have Introverted Intuition as your dominant function but you don't seem particulary INTJ to me. You don't seem to be having "a vision" and using whatever methods possible to make it true.

I am wondering about INFJ. Especially that part makes me think so:

"we'd have an argument over how I didn't get up early enough even though I often worked night. In my mind the solution was to set an alarm and arrange my sleep schedule so that I could get up early for her".

You worked night so you could sleep late, no problem. But you changed your schedule because your mother wanted you to. INFJs I know are people-pleasers like that. They will do stuff to make the people around them happy even if it doesn't work for them and even if it doesn't actually help.

"When conflicts arise, I sometimes get emotional with them, but the major driving force is to create a solution that might prevent a future conflict on the same situation. " also fit's well with INFJ type. Fe doesn't like conflicts and gets emotional about them. Ni sees the future. I seen the pattern a lot in my INFJ friend.

Anyway. Both INTJ and INFJ have feeling and thinking in middle of stack, and it's not unusual for the 2nd and 3rd function to change places, making a "thinker" seem like a "feeler" and the other way around. Especially since the 3rd function works nicely with dominant function (both are introverted functions, in case of INxJs) and can created so called loop, that is common in people with some kind of development trauma.

The question is if you are using Te-Fi or Fe-Ti. You don't seem like a Te user if you ask me, since your planning seems to be seriously related to your relationships with other people, rather than creating lonely plans about taking over the world, lol. You also don't seem to be concerned about professional status or anything like that. And while you seem to be using your own personal logic you are not confident in it, which is pretty normal for tertiary Ti.

"So going to how I debate. I feel stupid, if I present a thought that doesn't have a basis on factual reality. I sometimes double check my sources and look and think "is there something I might have overlooked, and make sure that I understood something correctly. ".

Feeling stupid about your thoughts is something people with lower stack tend to do. You might be thinking a Te user should be concenred about factual evidence and that's somehow true but lacking factual evidence doesn't make them embarased. Ni-Te users won't even be having actual thoughts that can't be translated to real evidence one way or another because once their thought is formed it already has factual evidence regraddles if it's evidient or not because thats how their thoughts get generated in the first place, by Te(+Se) observations stomached by Ni.

Ni-Fe-Ti kind of thinking is more complex. Ni-Ti sometimes creates some weird conclusion but they reguire some Fe (or Se) input in order for it to have any accurate connection to the reality, because both Ni and Ti are introverted functions, without direct contact with the outside world. That's why INFJs can feel pretty confident about their hunches about people (which is direct Fe+Ni working) but when something reguires actual analysis they need some Se confirmations to get any confidence (because seriously, Fe doesn't really help in forming any conclusions related to the world, unlike Te, unless it is somehow connected to other people).

"I will feel something and sometimes react, but then I'll analyze and think, "Yeah but is what I said true, does it contribute to meaningful discourse?"" is pretty clear Ni (feel someting = intuite something) ->Se (sometimes react)->Ti (then analyze and think) behavioural pattern.

"Usually, what causes me to make a snap reaction, as I call them, is my frustration over when people let themselves be incredibly biased by their political alignments and don't bother to analyze original sources beyond the equally biased media."
Basically you are getting frustrated when you see people not using their Ti (analyze) but blindly believing what Te based media feed them with, about issues (political alligments) your Fe finds important. And it makes you snap into your inferior function (Se) because it just one step away from Ti and they actually like working together.

Or something like that. Here we go.

Can you tell me where do you see INTJ, exactly? The only thing that makes me think one is the clear Ni dom. But Te is nowhere to be seen and there are pretty clear signs of Fe.
 

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Hi
To me you are an INTJ reconciliating with Fe.
Ni De for the logic in your childhood between the finite and infinite
Fi visual information and internal sense of right ans wrong merging with new Fe
Te for the endless projects.

I dont really see Ti in you


I really like this exercice of describing childhood experience to type
 

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INFJ still fits least bad
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Such good insights. I think the insights of the posts have been helpful, and I reconfirm that INFJ is the type that fits me the least badly, while I don't think any particular type fits like a glove.
 

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Se child - "I wonder how this red clay tastes, yuck!"

Ni child - "I wonder if I wasn't born would a doppelganger of me exist in another time, also there could be an infinite amount of letters, I wonder how these potential letters would sound as words and sentences."

Lol
 
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