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MOTM Jan 2014
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Eights Fine Distinctions / Tom Condon


Self Preservation Eights
• Strongly focused on physical security; very hard workers.
• When healthy they are exceptionally self-reliant, independent and responsible.
• Self-preservation Eights can be implacably determined to prosper.
• Momma Bear or Poppa Bear - fiercely protective and tenderly nurturing.
• Eights with this subtype can be homebodies who are focused on comfortable survival.• Often see the world as a place where they have to fight for what they want.
• Grow up poor or struggling or feel responsible for the material well-being of their family of origin.
• Eights with this subtype can have a stronger connection to Five and may be collectors or have prized, treasured objects.
• May value possessions and objects over people.
• Possessions symbolize security, proving that they have overcome past deprivations.
• Eights with this subtype can grow preoccupied with controlling their immediate environment, including their home.
• The people who endanger the Eight’s possessions may be the same people the Eightis pledged to take care of.
• Can bully their children to “toughen them up” for life in the hard world outside.
• Bully their own vulnerabilities in order to feel safe.
• Prone to survivalist thinking. Might openly advocate selfishness and believe that civilized behavior is just a veneer concealing our true animal nature.
• This subtype is active in the behavior of tycoons, self-made people who create business empires out of nothing.
• Some are notoriously aggressive, bosses-from-hell.


Intimate Eights
• Considerate protective friends; loyal, dependable and there when you need them.
• Healthy Intimate Eights can be thoughtful and philosophical about matters of the heart,the vagaries and complexities of relationships.
• Sensitive and compassionate, they often have a stronger connection to Two.
• Boxer-poets; people who have a paradoxical combination of aggression and sensitivity.
• This subtype can bring artistic tendencies: the desire to create, express, write.
• Many female Eights have this subtype.
• A nuanced ironic intelligence, especially about relationships.
• Intimate Eights are sometimes mistaken for Fours and occasionally have a Four parent.
• More easily able to switch places with their beloved, to sympathetically enter into the world view and feelings of the other person.
• When intimate Eights are less healthy, they are wary of betrayal and prone to suspicion.
• They can freight up their relationships with expectations, often worrying about the other person’s capacity to handle their aggression and vulnerabilities.
• Want stable, loyal predictable partners and may be sensitive to signs of faltering commitment.
• Can see a close relationship as a mutual pact of protection in a dangerous world.
• Test their partner’s motives and fortitude by being paradoxically tough and aggressive. If the partner can handle being emotionally roughed up then the Eight can be unguarded.
• Similar to the practice of “hazing” new members in an American fraternity.
• Intimate Eights can express love so implicitly that their partner doesn’t know it.
• Could casually give a gift that they have poured their heart into.
• Set themselves up to be ignored and overlooked and then react angrily.
• Can be possessive and try to dominate and control an intimate partner.
• They can be exceptionally jealous, hooked into the other, overreacting to their partner’s every move.
• Might seek out pliant or passive people - Twos, Sixes or Nines - so that the Eight can feel in charge.
• The dark extreme of this subtype can be seen in the behavior of male stalkers and spousal abusers.
• May want revenge for being rejected and carry the sense that the other person is my possession and they aren’t going to get away from me.
• Connected to the low side of Two, prideful codependence and emotionalism.
• Focus all their attention on a partner while neglecting themselves.


Social Eights
• Healthy Social Eights are often loyal to a chosen group and conceive of themselves as that group’s protector, provider or leader.
• The group’s welfare and cohesion are important to them. To this end, they are often cooperative, solution-focused and open to feedback.
• Social Eights are genuinely interested in how others feel and are willing to listen and to negotiate.
• Honest about their faults and hold themselves accountable to others.
• More likely to apologize when they’ve been unfair.
• This subtype has a stronger connection to Two and can emotionally switch places with others in their chosen group.
• As friends they want to protect what’s soft or young in you and appreciate the same treatment in return.
• Can be bold, audacious or progressive in the service of changing a system, especially to make it more socially just.
• Some suffer from “eldest child syndrome,” feeling responsible for younger siblings while compensating for inadequate or distant parents.
• The group the Eight protects could be family, friends, coworkers. Or stray animals,abused children, misfit teenagers; or the small and inarticulate – those who can’t advocate on their own behalf.
• Members of the group symbolize the Eight’s vulnerabilities.
• Less healthy Social Eights put themselves in a one-up position; consider themselves more adult than other group members.
• Alone in the middle of a group, the friendless protector of others.
• They can’t receive well, and don’t expect to be given to or believe anyone can care for them.
• See their group as pitted against the world or another group; persecutory justice for a cause.
• The mentality of unhealthy Social Eightness is always present in wars.
• Hang onto power for its own sake.
• Gangsters, street and prison gangs; cultures prone to retributive feuding and cycles of revenge.


Eight With a Seven Wing
• Expansive, extraverted and overtly powerful.
• Gregarious and generous; can display a cheerful, sunny bravado.
• May be forceful but with a light touch.
• Often funny and have a sense of humor about themselves.
• May talk loud and be sociable partygoers, although this can be modified by theirsubtype.
• Generally ambitious and materialistic.
• Can be visionary, idealistic and enterprising.
• Sometimes driven to bring the new into being and willing to take risks to make thathappen.
• The realm of tycoons or high-profile social reformers who overhaul a system to make it more just.
• Can be good at seeing options, being flexible and strategic in how they use power and achieve goals.
• This wing brings Eights more intellectual capacity.
• Eights with a Seven wing are usually more visual and see clearer imagery in their mind’s eye.
• Use their imaginations to dream up projects and plans; have trouble seeing themselves.
• A busy, fast-moving tempo to how they think, talk and move.
• Some Eights with this wing can speak in hyperbole using words like always, never, thegreatest. Reflects their grandiosity as well as either/or, black-and-white thinking.
• The appetite of Seven and Eightish lust combine to form a stronger tendency towards addiction.
• Reactionary, prone to temperamental ups and downs; moody, egocentric, quick to anger.
• May court or create chaos as well as inflate themselves narcissistically.
• Some are ruthlessly materialistic. Driven by plans or big dreams.
• Can use people up, suck them dry, roll past them.
• May be explosive or violent, prone to distorted overreaction.
• Activity addicts; some Eights with this wing are chronically restless and stay in
continual motion to avoid the shadows of boredom and depression.


Eight with a Nine Wing
Healthy Eights with a Nine wing can have an aura of supernatural calm.
• Have a strong implicit belief in their own abilities and take their authority for granted.
• The outward manner of someone who hasn’t had a self-doubt in decades.
• The queen or king of all they survey. A quality of not needing to display their strength.
• A grounded, rock-like quality, as if their feet are anchored to the center of the earth.
• Healthy Eights with this wing have a receptive Nine-like quality and a modest, mild-mannered social presentation.
• Can be gentle, kind-hearted and soft-spoken. Sensitive in a non-emotional way.
• Tender, nurturing parents as well as steady, supportive friends.
• Informal and unpretentious, patient and laconic, often more introverted.
• May have a dry or ironic sense of humor.
• More disposed to reflexively pleasing others. Can seem like Nines.
• Eights with this wing are often more auditory and kinesthetic and less visual.
• A slower tempo of thought, physical movement and speech.
• Some have flat or even voices, which they modulate only slightly.
• More oriented to the present than Eights with a Seven wing.
• Many have a high physical pain tolerance.
• Can be oblivious to the force of their anger until after they’ve hurt someone.
• Can be calmly dominating, emotionally cold and blind to softer emotions.
• An aura of implicit, simmering anger, like a sleeping volcano; slow to erupt but whenthey do it’s sudden and explosive.
• Some Eights with this wing act jaded and present the world with a tough, deadpan, poker-face.
• Some broadcast an implicitly challenging, go-to-hell attitude.
• Prone to boredom and tend towards depression.
• Go numb, have trouble showing affection, act dead.
• Can be cruel, especially in the service of ill-conceived goals.
• May be highly intelligent but their aggression makes them stupid.
• Prone to paranoid plotting, muddled thinking and warped acts of revenge.
• Blindly destructive behavior, abusive towards those they love, don’t know when to quit.• Might passively accommodate other people’s expectations and then get angry whenthey have done too much.
• Can turn violent when they get close to their own vulnerabilities.


Eight’s Connection to Two
• Connection helps Eights sympathetically identify with others.
• They extend themselves, become better communicators, admit their interdependence.• More compassionate, thoughtful, open and vulnerable.
• Peacemakers. Some have a conscious ethos of love.
• More in touch with the child within themselves.
• Healthy Twoish Eights can have “therapeutic” personalities in that they want to healothers and make things better. A healing touch.
• They see people 3-dimensionally instead of as 2-dimensional caricatures.
• This connection brings codependence.
• Some Eights can become overidentified with their partner and are unable todisengage.
• Could compensate for and defend a partner’s weaknesses, even those that injure theEight.
• Compulsively over-protective of others.
• They may also overreact, displaying a kind of hair-trigger emotionality based in anger.
• Can hang onto slights and injustices, take the whole world personally.
• Act entitled, episodes of megalomania. The Two’s self-inflation reinforces the Eight’snarcissism.
• Possessively demanding; could become obsessed about their partner. This connectionsometimes brings jealousy and reinforces the unhealthy tendencies of the Intimatesubtype.
• Try to dominate people on whom they are dependent.
• The Eight defense of denial and Two habit of repression reinforce each other.
• It is not unusual for Eights to express this connection by marrying it.

Eight’s Connection to Five
• Healthy connection brings mental clarity.
• Able to be strategic and think things through.
• Less driven by power or aggression.
• Can see better in their mind’s eye, their visual field is enhanced.
• The connection brings a subtle, nuanced quality to an Eight’s responses.
• Can detach, stand back from circumstances and pause before they react.
• May have an intellectual streak, especially with a Seven wing.
• They can be bookish, could have technical or philosophical interests; a love oflearning.
• Loners. May recharge and replenish themselves by withdrawing into solitary pursuits.
• This connection takes the edge off Eight’s addictive tendencies and helps moderate their behavior.
• A calming influence; helps them see the big picture, remember long-term goals and avoid (over) reacting to immediate circumstances.
• Fiveish Eights can isolate themselves and lapse into inaction and depression.
• Collectors, hoarders, might be stingy with money.
• Distrustful and suspicious; start seeing friends as enemies.
• Guilty brooding about past actions, sink into morbid regret.
• Self-punishing; in extreme cases a risk of suicide.
• Feel powerless; heightened fear of betrayal by others.
• Anti-social, try to manipulate people from a distance.
• Can be fond of malformed, unfounded conspiracy theories.
• Dissociated, lose touch with reality, paranoid-schitzophrenic.
 

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Grumpy old bastard
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@Animal My first response is "fuck you." sent with humor, and love.

>>>>>The Eight defense of denial and Two habit of repression reinforce each other.
>>>>>• It is not unusual for Eights to express this connection by marrying it.

yeah, my first wife.

so I'm an 8w7 Sx. FWIW, I have a GREAT understanding of my 5 connection, and based on this description, it is "healthy."

the Sx stuff is fairly spot on, but stops short. It does not describe my MUST HAVE desire of new, intense, and lack of planning or foresight in some areas of my life.

Her description of "with 7 wing" conflates Se with the rest. Yes, ESTP and ENTJ are often 8w7, but not all 8w7's have Se.

to be fair, I'm picking nits. this is AWESOME. thank you very much for posting it here!


 

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MOTM Jan 2014
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Discussion Starter #3

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Eights Fine Distinctions / Tom Condon


Intimate Eights

• Boxer-poets; people who have a paradoxical combination of aggression and sensitivity.

• This subtype can bring artistic tendencies: the desire to create, express, write.

• When intimate Eights are less healthy, they are wary of betrayal and prone to suspicion.

• Test their partner’s motives and fortitude by being paradoxically tough and aggressive. If the partner can handle being emotionally roughed up then the Eight can be unguarded.

• Similar to the practice of “hazing” new members in an American fraternity.


• Set themselves up to be ignored and overlooked and then react angrily.

• Can be possessive and try to dominate and control an intimate partner.


• May want revenge for being rejected and carry the sense that the other person is my possession and they aren’t going to get away from me.
this fits a friend of mine, very unpredictable even when I think we have similar type. The sexual instinct is my weakest so it's like a whole different world to me.


Social Eights
• Healthy Social Eights are often loyal to a chosen group and conceive of themselves as that group’s protector, provider or leader.
• The group’s welfare and cohesion are important to them. To this end, they are often cooperative, solution-focused and open to feedback.
sounds familiar


• Members of the group symbolize the Eight’s vulnerabilities.
This could be true


• They can’t receive well, and don’t expect to be given to or believe anyone can care for them.
yep, as a kid I used to squirm when people gave me compliments.
 
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