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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
https://soundcloud.com/beatricemc/beatrice-chestnut

SKip ahead to around 29 minutes for her ~5 minute spiel on the 3 instinctual variants of type 5.

Somewhat derivative of Naranjo and even Ichazo but, overall, very good stuff.

She spices things up with some seemingly original examples - Kafka as Sp five and Nietzsche as Sx five.
 

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Lotus Jester
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Hmmm . . . It's really interesting. According to what she says; I have my instinctual variants in the wrong order. If this is accurate; then instead of sp/sx, I am so/sx. I relate most to the so 5 who is described as very idealistic and spiritual and secondly, to the sx 5, who is highly romantic and more emotionally expressive. In most of the descriptions of variants, I have read; so 5s, seem to be interested in groups and/or expressing their superiority through knowledge; which I don't relate to at all but I definitely relate the spiritual and idealistic 5; she talks about and since I don't believe in renunciation at all; I relate to the sp, only in part. I need to have boundaries and I need to feel safe, but I am very emotionally expressive, sx and even more so, idealistic, so.

Well, this is not only useful for determining your variants but confirming your type as well. Not that I really had any doubt, but this confirms without a doubt; that I am definitely a core 5.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hmmm . . . It's really interesting. According to what she says; I have my instinctual variants in the wrong order. If this is accurate; then instead of sp/sx, I am so/sx. I relate most to the so 5 who is described as very idealistic and spiritual and secondly, to the sx 5, who is highly romantic and more emotionally expressive. In most of the descriptions of variants, I have read; so 5s, seem to be interested in groups and/or expressing their superiority through knowledge; which I don't relate to at all but I definitely relate the spiritual and idealistic 5; she talks about and since I don't believe in renunciation at all; I relate to the sp, only in part. I need to have boundaries and I need to feel safe, but I am very emotionally expressive, sx and even more so, idealistic, so.

Well, this is not only useful for determining your variants but confirming your type as well. Not that I really had any doubt, but this confirms without a doubt; that I am definitely a core 5.
I will just say a few things. Naranjo basically thought fives were the most "monochromatic" across variants, so you could very well be So five (and still relatively introverted). Here's another take on the three variants for type five. These are Sp, Sx and So, respectively. I kinda question the Sx most but I will see what others think.

Private Genius, Solitary Philosopher, Puzzle Solver, Pattern Observer, Mental Tinkerer, Theoretical Inventor, Blueprint Creator, Amateur Scholar, Serious Hobbyist, Stuff Collector, Space Protector, Reflective Thinker, Detail Analyzer, Professional Student, Treasure Finder, Hermit, Nerd, RecluseSpy, Sleuth, Alchemist, Scientist, Mad Scientist, Investigator, Private Detective, Undercover Operative, Behind-the-scenes Internet Wizard, Chat Room Enthusiast, Chess Player, Private Tutor, Secret Photographer, Exchanger of Confidences, Weirdo Voyeur, Secret Society Member, Wizard of OzGroup Observer, Recognized Expert, Honored Teacher, Tenured Professor, Knowledge Repository, Dispassionate Facilitator, Impersonal Guide, Bodhisattva, Occasional Iconoclast, Etymologist, Myth Collector, Anthropologist, Arcane Expert, Wise Man or Woman, Tribal Healer, Shaman, Witch Doctor
 

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Lotus Jester
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I will just say a few things. Naranjo basically thought fives were the most "monochromatic" across variants, so you could very well be So five (and still relatively introverted). Here's another take on the three variants for type five. These are Sp, Sx and So, respectively. I kinda question the Sx most but I will see what others think.

Private Genius, Solitary Philosopher, Puzzle Solver, Pattern Observer, Mental Tinkerer, Theoretical Inventor, Blueprint Creator, Amateur Scholar, Serious Hobbyist, Stuff Collector, Space Protector, Reflective Thinker, Detail Analyzer, Professional Student, Treasure Finder, Hermit, Nerd, RecluseSpy, Sleuth, Alchemist, Scientist, Mad Scientist, Investigator, Private Detective, Undercover Operative, Behind-the-scenes Internet Wizard, Chat Room Enthusiast, Chess Player, Private Tutor, Secret Photographer, Exchanger of Confidences, Weirdo Voyeur, Secret Society Member, Wizard of OzGroup Observer, Recognized Expert, Honored Teacher, Tenured Professor, Knowledge Repository, Dispassionate Facilitator, Impersonal Guide, Bodhisattva, Occasional Iconoclast, Etymologist, Myth Collector, Anthropologist, Arcane Expert, Wise Man or Woman, Tribal Healer, Shaman, Witch Doctor
Well, now I'm even more confused, lol. I agree with you about sx. From this list; my variants are off again: according to this list; I'm sp/so. The only thing, I could relate to sx, was chess player and exchanger of confidences.

:crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Well, now I'm even more confused, lol. I agree with you about sx. From this list; my variants are off again: according to this list; I'm sp/so. The only thing, I could relate to sx, was chess player and exchanger of confidences.

:crazy:
It may help to try to encapsulate yourself in a journal-like entry and compare that to these six.

Or maybe, before looking at that thread, try to encapsulate yourself in 10-15 words, then compare.

http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-forum-investigator/9160-type-five-variant-stackings.html

But anyway, I don't think So and Sp fives are really as anguished about finding a soulmate as Sx five.

(An Sx five is like John Lennon who basically quit life when he found Yoko. That's all he really wanted.)

So fives really can be snobbish by relating to exemplars more than everyday people and...

(The dad from the movie Squid and the Whale is So five par excellence!)

Sp fives really don't leave their castle (haha) and are said to be the most emotionally-constrained type.
 

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Lotus Jester
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You could also see if this resonates with you. @TreasureTower

Enneagram Central - Subtype Five Social
Questions:
1. How clear are you and how concerned are you about your class standing?
2. With what inflection do you say the word, "stupid."
3. How many friends do you have that do not share your intellectual pursuits?
1.I don't really think about "class" at all; intellectual and aesthetic appreciation is way more important to me.

2. :laughing:

3.None, all of my friend either share my intellectual, artistic - which can include musical preferences, or ethical/spiritual attitudes. I only am friends with people who share my ideals.

It may or may not be noteworthy; that all of them are left-wing liberals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
1.I don't really think about "class" at all; intellectual and aesthetic appreciation is way more important to me.

2. :laughing:

3.None, all of my friend either share my intellectual, artistic - which can include musical preferences, or ethical/spiritual attitudes. I only am friends with people who share my ideals.

It may or may not be noteworthy; that all of them are left-wing liberals.
I would aim for gleaning the general flavor of each variant more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
1.I don't really think about "class" at all; intellectual and aesthetic appreciation is way more important to me.

2. :laughing:

3.None, all of my friend either share my intellectual, artistic - which can include musical preferences, or ethical/spiritual attitudes. I only am friends with people who share my ideals.

It may or may not be noteworthy; that all of them are left-wing liberals.
To give a more nuanced picture, I think the vice of avarice interplays with each instinct:

Social - Only want to read about and converse with other intellectuals...on intellectual topics. Ironically, social fives mostly dislike chitchat and want to analyze society, philosophy, etc. more.

Sexual - Only have enough juice for one other person. Will trust and tell that one person anything.

Self-Pres - This might be a general five thing, but feel resources proper (food, etc.) must be hoarded for survival. Self-Pres fives also might be more reclusive and tangibly walled-in to forestall overwhelm.
 

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Lotus Jester
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To give a more nuanced picture, I think the vice of avarice interplays with each instinct:

Social - Only want to read about and converse with other intellectuals...on intellectual topics. Ironically, social fives mostly dislike chitchat and want to analyze society, philosophy, etc. more.

Sexual - Only have enough juice for one other person. Will trust and tell that one person anything.

Self-Pres - This might be a general five thing, but feel resources proper (food, etc.) must be hoarded for survival. Self-Pres fives also might be more reclusive and tangibly walled-in to forestall overwhelm.
I am starting to think I might be a so first; I am still debating between sx and sp for second place.
 

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Private Genius, Solitary Philosopher, Puzzle Solver, Pattern Observer, Mental Tinkerer, Theoretical Inventor, Blueprint Creator, Amateur Scholar, Serious Hobbyist, Stuff Collector, Space Protector, Reflective Thinker, Detail Analyzer, Professional Student, Treasure Finder, Hermit, Nerd, RecluseSpy, Sleuth, Alchemist, Scientist, Mad Scientist, Investigator, Private Detective, Undercover Operative, Behind-the-scenes Internet Wizard, Chat Room Enthusiast, Chess Player, Private Tutor, Secret Photographer, Exchanger of Confidences, Weirdo Voyeur, Secret Society Member, Wizard of OzGroup Observer, Recognized Expert, Honored Teacher, Tenured Professor, Knowledge Repository,Dispassionate Facilitator, Impersonal Guide, Bodhisattva, Occasional Iconoclast, Etymologist, Myth Collector, Anthropologist, Arcane Expert, Wise Man or Woman, Tribal Healer, Shaman, Witch Doctor






*laughs til I cry*


@unctuousbutler Where did you get this? I want to see the 8 list!! I don't know what's funnier, the list itself or watching the 5's in the thread saying, "This one's totally me!" :laughing:
 

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Lotus Jester
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Private Genius, Solitary Philosopher, Puzzle Solver, Pattern Observer, Mental Tinkerer, Theoretical Inventor, Blueprint Creator, Amateur Scholar, Serious Hobbyist, Stuff Collector, Space Protector, Reflective Thinker, Detail Analyzer, Professional Student, Treasure Finder, Hermit, Nerd, RecluseSpy, Sleuth, Alchemist, Scientist, Mad Scientist, Investigator, Private Detective, Undercover Operative, Behind-the-scenes Internet Wizard, Chat Room Enthusiast, Chess Player, Private Tutor, Secret Photographer, Exchanger of Confidences, Weirdo Voyeur, Secret Society Member, Wizard of OzGroup Observer, Recognized Expert, Honored Teacher, Tenured Professor, Knowledge Repository,Dispassionate Facilitator, Impersonal Guide, Bodhisattva, Occasional Iconoclast, Etymologist, Myth Collector, Anthropologist, Arcane Expert, Wise Man or Woman, Tribal Healer, Shaman, Witch Doctor






*laughs til I cry*
Did you listen to the soundcloud? She discusses the variants of all the types. It is based on this, primarily; that I decided that that I was really so first, not sp. Most descriptions of so, leave me cold.
 

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MOTM Jan 2014
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Did you listen to the soundcloud? She discusses the variants of all the types. It is based on this, primarily; that I decided that that I was really so first, not sp. Most descriptions of so, leave me cold.
I didn't. I was laughing though.. because I know a few 5's myself, and some of these, in fact, *are* adept descriptions.
 

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Lotus Jester
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I didn't. I was laughing though.. because I know a few 5's myself, and some of these, in fact, *are* adept descriptions.
I hope that the 5 who is the "weirdo voyeur" isn't causing you too much trouble.

 
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Did you listen to the soundcloud? She discusses the variants of all the types. It is based on this, primarily; that I decided that that I was really so first, not sp. Most descriptions of so, leave me cold.
That soundcloud is weird. I don't agree with at least half of what she says. Seriously, for instance sx 'romantic', 'emotionally expressive' and so forth? Isn't that taking "sexual" a little too literally and downplaying the 5 core a little too much?

I don't see the need for forming archetypal descriptions where they might not even be warranted. Theoretical constructs manifest through people in individual ways, and a lot of people won't look like archetypes yet may still be that type.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
That soundcloud is weird. I don't agree with at least half of what she says. Seriously, for instance sx 'romantic', 'emotionally expressive' and so forth? Isn't that taking "sexual" a little too literally and downplaying the 5 core a little too much?

I don't see the need for forming archetypal descriptions where they might not even be warranted. Theoretical constructs manifest through people in individual ways, and a lot of people won't look like archetypes yet may still be that type.
A lot of what she said is adapted straight from Naranjo.

Socionics - the16types.info - Naranjo's Subtypes

And when you look at famous Sx fives, they bear the mark of an unfive five (Kurt Cobain, William Burroughs, Trent Reznor, John Lennon, etc.).

What in particular do you disagree with?
 

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NiTe 549
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A lot of what she said is adapted straight from Naranjo.

Socionics - the16types.info - Naranjo's Subtypes

And when you look at famous fives, they bear the mark of an unfive five (Kurt Cobain, Trent Reznor, John Lennon, etc.).
How do you even know they're fives?

And I never agreed much with Naranjo's subtypes, either. I get what she and he are trying to do but I don't think it's a very valid way of thinking, because of what I already wrote.
 
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