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Hello everyone! I am aware that this is a thread that reappears time and time again, but advice would be greatly appreciated. So, I am an INFJ here wondering how to get onto an ENTP's good side once again. This I've heard is one of the most difficult things in the world, yet, this INFJ is quite committed to making this work, for reasons I'll explain below.

Back-Story.

So a number of months ago, a girl and I began to date. She had just come out of a long relationship, and I was there just afterwards, it happened extremely quickly. Perhaps too quickly. After we began to date, a friend group formed around us to a certain extent, with her providing the ENTP ideas, and driving it forward, and me as the person attempting to make sure all the emotions in the group stayed central, and attempting to achieve happiness. This worked well. This friend group also helped to keep us together, as we hit a rough couple of days from which our relationship did not fully recover, well, at least not in my mind. I felt that she was dependent on me, and that I should not trouble her further by sharing my concerns, so I hid my thoughts and tried to help her while ignoring myself. This often led to me becoming very frustrated, and also unhappy.

Now, during the summer, we went on holidays together and then we spent a significant amount of time away from each other, and my unhappiness with the situation and with myself morphed into a thinking that something was wrong with the relationship, even when we were together. So, I thought about ending it, agonised over it for more than a month, and it ended in a way which I did not intend (not face-to-face, without talking about it). Following this, we both got back a few days later, and I was uncomfortable with the situation, as of course, was she. We had some good moments together during this time, but overall it was strange, I did not know how to act, would really want her attention when she was around, and felt scared when it was not present.

At the same time, I withdrew from the friend group since I felt very uncomfortable. There were unspoken things in the air, and the one time we did talk about it, it went wrong during the conversation. It began fantastically, I admitted that I was very hurt and apologised profusely for any hurt I caused. She accepted this. I made the admission that I really wished to be friends, and she agreed. I was sharing my emotions, my thoughts and just about everything with her. Yet, towards the end she began talking about moving on, her sexual plans, and towards the end, showed a general disinterest with me. These three points truly hurt me, and I did not know how to react, as she seemed to be trying to draw a reaction out of me by inspiring some form of hurt or so. This was compounded by the fact that she denied some romantic plans she'd made concerning her and a friend of mine, which really hurt me, so I felt I could not be friends after considering this for a time. I needed space. This was the main reason I felt I could not interact with the friend group, so following her advice, I left it without any warning (well, the online conversation aspect of it). This was interpreted as a betrayal by the group, who viewed it symbolically, and stopped contact with me. Following this, I entered a dark time, did not have my stable basis, and started over-self analyzing, as well as with analyzing the entire situation. Now, I live on a small campus, so it was impossible not to see certain people, you simply end up running into each other either in your places, or in the dorms. Yet, I also stepped away from other members, since she was busy with the romantic-planning involving them, and I did not want to get hurt any more. I deleted her from my Facebook, and attempted to withdraw and have space. Following and during this period, I (re-)established contact with some members of the group, and they have helped me consistently.

Situation Now.

What the situation is now, is that when I see her I smile and am happy, but receive a complete lack of interest which is from her being hurt I believe. I have largely repaired the relationship with the friend group, one by one, and am building up those friendships through commitment and hard work. The only person with whom my relations haven't gotten better is her. I do not know what to do, I do not know what to share, and I really wish to share things with her; she was the one who got me into MBTI-related things, has helped me discover more about myself than I ever knew existed (to use a cliché) and, became my best friend over the course of the relationship. We share the same friends and I am sick of making them choose between us. I wish to achieve some form of harmony, and get this conflict out of the way, because it is very distressing. The romantic element has been removed, and that has helped me as well.

I know that I have made a significant amount of mistakes. I haven't spent almost two months analyzing things and not come up with solutions/reasons and insights. I should have shared more things instead of hiding, and have been honest, and been less controlling (I was/am a bit of a deadline freak, and value organization and being on time). During these past moments, I have realised many things about myself, my past and my mistakes. I am now at a stable point, and for the first time in years, if ever, I feel that I know myself. I now appreciate the moments that we shared together, and see how good it actually was, and how good our connection was. We shared great moments, and I have many fond memories. I have indicated to the group, individually, that my door is open for her. Yet, the longer this goes on for, the more I wish to resolve it, but feel incapable of branching out, making contact or anything. I don't want to get hurt again, despite being hurt by the situation and she does not either. Out of respect for her I am also avoiding some social events at which she is present, and despite the general assent of the friend group, will not rejoin the online conversation until things with her have been settled, as that aspect/people form a support network for her, and if I put myself into that situation without things first being settled, it will likely deprive her of an emotional outlet.

I was wondering, what tips would you have, or personal experiences that you have to share. Anything would be welcome and appreciated.

I think that I especially need to see
-what the issues are (as an ENTP)
-ideas for an approach
-truly anything else on your mind(s).

Sorry for the mushy language, I'm aware that many ENTPs are not really enamoured of it, it's how I communicate though (I love interpretation and analysis of language). And, once again, please feel free to share anything that could be helpful if you are so inclined, or if you have a question or questions. Thanks.
 

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I'm not trying to be rude with my responses but I find that blunt language tends to make giving advice go a bit easier with less confusion about the intent of my words. I did read your whole post and it sounds like you have been having a hard time, so I hope in that regard, that you start feeling better.

1. I get the sense that you are young in the 18-22 age range. This type of scenario is typical of how things turn out when a group of friends has pairs and then something goes wrong. I would encourage you to separate the stuff between the two of you from the friendship circle. You are damaging the group dynamics with your personal "couple" drama.

It is like when parents bring the children into the fight and tell the kid about the trouble they are having with the other parent. In this analogy, each of you is the parents and your group of friends is the kids. It isn't fair to drag everyone into things that the two of you should be handling just between yourself. By the two of you dragging your stuff out for display within the group, you are the ones who are forcing them to "choose". I suggest you stop speaking about your private drama so that the friendship circle can heal. If someone brings it up, I suggest a polite "I think it is best that I keep the stuff between me and (whoever she is) more private, but thank you for asking".

2. I notice a tendency of INFJs to spiral. I think you are spiraling...feeding your negative energy into the situation (you call it overthink) in an obsessive manner which is ruining your perspective of the situation and causing emotional anxiety. I suggest that you quit it, acknowledge that you are perpetuating a negative cycle. I suggest that you try limiting the amount of time you spend contemplating things inside your head which only serves to wind you up. Set a time limit...I will think about this for 1/2 hour...do something concrete like try and look at a specific incident and figure out why you feel a certain way about it....then write down your thoughts and PUT IT AWAY. Teach yourself how to let go of something in a constructive manner. Tell yourself you will revisit the issue the next day or next week or whatever but don't go back over the details that day....honor the time limit. You will be teaching your emotional self to respect the desire to create distance and perspective because you are reassuring yourself that you aren't NOT trying to think about it but planning the time to think about it.

3. When it comes to this interpersonal crap, you cannot fix anybody but yourself. Don't think of ways you can convince her that things should be better...that is her stuff, you have NO control over that. I would work on figuring out what is bothering you and how you can heal the hurt you have. When you become right inside, you don't have to worry about HOW you will talk to someone or HOW you will handle things because you are operating from a place of peace. When you operate from a place of hurt there is a tendency as a Fe user to lash out at the Other...to project your pain.

4. I would guess that the thing that is causing you the most pain is the sense that you have lost someone who supported you/that you had affection for, as well as, losing the comfort you had with the broader circle of friends. So perhaps you are feeling adrift and friendless. You should come to grips with your own pain and heal that pain. Acknowledging your mistakes is a great place to start but the only way to finish up the process is to forgive yourself for having the audacity to be human.....when you cling to shame and blame you poison your spirit.

5. You notice I haven't said one word about her. I operate from the position that the problem is me because in the grand scheme of life, I have found that the only shit I can fix is my own.
 

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Hi,

I noticed this phrase: " as she seemed to be trying to draw a reaction out of me by inspiring some form of hurt or so."

It is extremely unlikely she did that to hurt you. She probably just said she was doing it because it seemed like you two were moving on and so she was moving on too.

With ENTPs: give time and space, be logical. If you want to discuss a big topic, approach it thusly: "When this happened, I said this and you said this, it felt to me that this was the situation. I wanted to check on how you perceived that conversation. Perhaps there was a miscommunication we can clear up." There probably was a miscommunication, plus if you approach it calmly like that, you'll reassure your ENTP that you won't give a strong emotional reaction. (Think: coaxing a skittish barn cat out to give it a bowl of food....gotta go slow and easy.)

Most of the time, what other people do has nothing to do with you. It's just how they operate. Concluding that other people are actively trying to hurt you is usually inaccurate and will only make you unnecessarily sad.





 

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If I had an inkling that someone was thinking so long and obsessively about me and how I reacted to minor things, I would keep some distance too. Such an emotional weight to carry! The way to fix this complexity is to be much, much less complex.

You can't make her behave any differently. You have to learn to live alongside the distance in your place of living and work and friendship group. Not a bad life lesson, learning to live with stuff you can't change.

yikb's law of paradox states that the harder you try to achieve something, the less likely it is to happen, and the converse is also true. Right about the time you have learned to truly be comfortable in your own skin, whether or not she smiles at you.....chances are she'll start smiling again. But you really have to let go of the hope that she will, or it won't happen.
 

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Sorry for short and probably useless advice, but I'd really just show this post of yours to her. It says it all. If she understands INFJs, which I assume she learned to after a relationship with one, she'll know exactly how you feel and how you felt.

Also, ENTPs generally move on quickly when the relationship is over for them. She prolly still has feelings. Just saying.

As for the future communication with ENTPs, one thing people need to realize is that we're emotionally stable. Perfectly. We ask for help all the time, but in truth, we don't really need it all that much. We just wanna talk it all out, and get motivated. We like when people are there for us, but it doesn't bother us when they aren't because of their own worries/troubles/obligations. And we also like to help back. For God's sake, we're so narcissistic we always believe we're right (even when we're aware we might not be, or think we aren't, we somehow believe we are), ofc we'd like to show that we understand you and try and advise you. It seems it takes a long time for INxJs to start asking help for themselves. You just seem to believe you're troubling others. Introverts aren't whiny bitches like us, you aren't annoying and attention seeking like us, your little problems are much more significant than most things we consider big in a situation. So just share them with people you trust. I know you realized this by know, but I also know you need some reassurance to be sure we don't mind.
 

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This comment is probably not that relevant, I didn't read very much of this.. but getting back on an ENTP's good side probably isn't too hard. I don't envision us as the type to hold grudges. You'd probably have much more trouble with xNTJ's or strong F's or ESTJ's, or really a lot of other types.

I could be wrong...
 

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i glazed over after about 4 paragraphs.
so did she.

you are still hung up on her.

she has moved on, and is trying to send clear messages she has moved on, wants to fuck someone else, but doesn't want to hurt you if she doesn't have to, but would rather be honest then lead you on.
 

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Spotlight March 2016
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Hello everyone! I am aware that this is a thread that reappears time and time again, but advice would be greatly appreciated. So, I am an INFJ here wondering how to get onto an ENTP's good side once again. This I've heard is one of the most difficult things in the world, yet, this INFJ is quite committed to making this work, for reasons I'll explain below.

Back-Story.

So a number of months ago, a girl and I began to date. She had just come out of a long relationship, and I was there just afterwards, it happened extremely quickly. Perhaps too quickly. After we began to date, a friend group formed around us to a certain extent, with her providing the ENTP ideas, and driving it forward, and me as the person attempting to make sure all the emotions in the group stayed central, and attempting to achieve happiness. This worked well. This friend group also helped to keep us together, as we hit a rough couple of days from which our relationship did not fully recover, well, at least not in my mind. I felt that she was dependent on me, and that I should not trouble her further by sharing my concerns, so I hid my thoughts and tried to help her while ignoring myself. This often led to me becoming very frustrated, and also unhappy.

Now, during the summer, we went on holidays together and then we spent a significant amount of time away from each other, and my unhappiness with the situation and with myself morphed into a thinking that something was wrong with the relationship, even when we were together. So, I thought about ending it, agonised over it for more than a month, and it ended in a way which I did not intend (not face-to-face, without talking about it). Following this, we both got back a few days later, and I was uncomfortable with the situation, as of course, was she. We had some good moments together during this time, but overall it was strange, I did not know how to act, would really want her attention when she was around, and felt scared when it was not present.

At the same time, I withdrew from the friend group since I felt very uncomfortable. There were unspoken things in the air, and the one time we did talk about it, it went wrong during the conversation. It began fantastically, I admitted that I was very hurt and apologised profusely for any hurt I caused. She accepted this. I made the admission that I really wished to be friends, and she agreed. I was sharing my emotions, my thoughts and just about everything with her. Yet, towards the end she began talking about moving on, her sexual plans, and towards the end, showed a general disinterest with me. These three points truly hurt me, and I did not know how to react, as she seemed to be trying to draw a reaction out of me by inspiring some form of hurt or so. This was compounded by the fact that she denied some romantic plans she'd made concerning her and a friend of mine, which really hurt me, so I felt I could not be friends after considering this for a time. I needed space. This was the main reason I felt I could not interact with the friend group, so following her advice, I left it without any warning (well, the online conversation aspect of it). This was interpreted as a betrayal by the group, who viewed it symbolically, and stopped contact with me. Following this, I entered a dark time, did not have my stable basis, and started over-self analyzing, as well as with analyzing the entire situation. Now, I live on a small campus, so it was impossible not to see certain people, you simply end up running into each other either in your places, or in the dorms. Yet, I also stepped away from other members, since she was busy with the romantic-planning involving them, and I did not want to get hurt any more. I deleted her from my Facebook, and attempted to withdraw and have space. Following and during this period, I (re-)established contact with some members of the group, and they have helped me consistently.

Situation Now.

What the situation is now, is that when I see her I smile and am happy, but receive a complete lack of interest which is from her being hurt I believe. I have largely repaired the relationship with the friend group, one by one, and am building up those friendships through commitment and hard work. The only person with whom my relations haven't gotten better is her. I do not know what to do, I do not know what to share, and I really wish to share things with her; she was the one who got me into MBTI-related things, has helped me discover more about myself than I ever knew existed (to use a cliché) and, became my best friend over the course of the relationship. We share the same friends and I am sick of making them choose between us. I wish to achieve some form of harmony, and get this conflict out of the way, because it is very distressing. The romantic element has been removed, and that has helped me as well.

I know that I have made a significant amount of mistakes. I haven't spent almost two months analyzing things and not come up with solutions/reasons and insights. I should have shared more things instead of hiding, and have been honest, and been less controlling (I was/am a bit of a deadline freak, and value organization and being on time). During these past moments, I have realised many things about myself, my past and my mistakes. I am now at a stable point, and for the first time in years, if ever, I feel that I know myself. I now appreciate the moments that we shared together, and see how good it actually was, and how good our connection was. We shared great moments, and I have many fond memories. I have indicated to the group, individually, that my door is open for her. Yet, the longer this goes on for, the more I wish to resolve it, but feel incapable of branching out, making contact or anything. I don't want to get hurt again, despite being hurt by the situation and she does not either. Out of respect for her I am also avoiding some social events at which she is present, and despite the general assent of the friend group, will not rejoin the online conversation until things with her have been settled, as that aspect/people form a support network for her, and if I put myself into that situation without things first being settled, it will likely deprive her of an emotional outlet.

I was wondering, what tips would you have, or personal experiences that you have to share. Anything would be welcome and appreciated.

I think that I especially need to see
-what the issues are (as an ENTP)
-ideas for an approach
-truly anything else on your mind(s).

Sorry for the mushy language, I'm aware that many ENTPs are not really enamoured of it, it's how I communicate though (I love interpretation and analysis of language). And, once again, please feel free to share anything that could be helpful if you are so inclined, or if you have a question or questions. Thanks.
Okay, what I'm getting from this is that you're in this situation, you've made up with your group of friends, but your real goal is making up with the ENTP to whom you are enamoured.

That's awesome, but it doesn't sound like she wants anything more than friendship, and there's no point in rushing past friendzone.

Arrange to meet with her face-to-face to discuss your thoughts.

Try not to bring your feelings into it-- Just talk about what you think about the whole situation. Be honest. Even be blunt about it, if you want.

The key focus is on the beauty of friendship (<3) and not on a relationship (</3). Let's not get you right back into the hammock right away, so to speak.

Just focus on building up a friendship foundation, ignore your feelings of desire, and enjoy being 'normal' with her. The way I see it, relationships require hard work, and you can't go from friendship, to relationship, to nothing, and then straight back into relationship again. You have to build up the foundations. That may take some time.

ENTPs generally try not to rush things...

Unnnless they're quite young, then their tertiary Fe + hormones + Ne can be a volatile bomb ready to attack them and make them think about mushy things. Since this is a novelty, it is fascinating, and wants to be explored. Also, female usually = more mushyness. Jenna Marbles is a great example of this. She's an ExTP at the very least. If she's an ESTP, then replace Ne with Se, but relatively same idea.

And then, y'know, it can go the other way. It's already been mentioned that this ENTP might be in pursuit of a more carnal relationship, rather than something more meaningful and committed.

If that is the case, seriously don't waste your time beyond a friendship until she gets it out of her system, and even then, you might lose respect for her and decide that this isn't going to be a tree that will bear fruit.

When people are exploring meaningless carnal relations, it just means they're immature and not ready for anything more. Pursuit is bound to end up being messy, and hurting you.
 

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I apologize in advance for being very blunt and probably kinda rude but here goes:

1) I'm a little unsure, is she ENTP? And the mutual friends, generally what are they? At least the important ones in this situation.

2) *BEWARE of doucheness* Dude you broke up with her and yeah it's gon' hurt. Also, you didn't include a timeline of sorts, just how long as it been sense the breakup? As I'm reading what you wrote, I'm getting this feeling that you actually want to get back together with her.

3) My assumption right now is that she is ENTP because she moved on already. Personally, I move on or cut people out of my life very fast, takes like a month or two for me tops, but I don't know if it's just me or ENTP prompts this. Look, she moved on really fast, and you're hurt that she no longer pays you the attention or affection that you were used to getting. Imho, she wants a relationship and you already said no this won't work out so she's moved on to other potential partners that will never include you because it's done and over.

4) Reading your plea, you go back and forth about what you want from her. Again I don't know how long this timeline is of these experiences that you recited but seriously, if you're dealing with ENTP. Just let her go. She's not coming to you. Whether it's to talk about it and give you closure which I'm sure she doesn't think about because she really doesn't owe you that. You're best option is to move on.

5) As for the friends you two share. The honest truth: neither you or her are that important to them. Don't over think it. They're not choosing a side, they're there for their own gains. Don't worry about them.
 
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