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What do you think which activity affects the child most negatively?

  • Not Caring For The Child

  • Hating The Child

  • Wanting To Change The Child

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What do you think which activity affects the child most negatively, and why?
 

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I'd probably say hating the child. Because that also implies that they don't care for the child and want the child (or circumstances) to change. Hating a child is something you don't necessarily have to express through physical or verbal abuse. Emotional abuse can be much more harmful even if it's not meant to hurt the child directly. All these little things children can pick up on very easily, or they'll understand when they start comparing their lives with others (real or fictional). In their minds, knowing that your parent doesn't care for you means they must hate you; knowing that your parent wants you to change means they hate you.
 

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Yes--hating the child is def. not good parenting.

Children are dependent on their parents. They also learn love from the way their parents love them.

Hatred is basically the opposite of love. It is an emotion even primates experience--it tends to be associated with aggression and wanting to harm.

For anyone to hate a child is a serious threat, as children are both dependent and largely defenseless.

It is normal for parents to "want to change the child" in superficial ways--such as guiding the child towards proper behavior (for the child's own benefit). Parents want to see their children be successful, and encourage that--so that could be seen as "wanting to change" the child. Children are impacted by their parents...their parents WILL change them no matter what they do, so should try to focus on creating a positive change. I realize you're probably not meaning it this way though, and more in the negative "not accepting the child as who they are."
 

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What do you think which activity affects the child most negatively, and why?
Any one of these could be a problem depending on the kid.
 

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Not caring for it. You could keep your feelings to your self + they might change if you work on your self and raise your child right, and you have to be willingness to change your child's behaviour if it has too negative consequences for it. But without your care your child might not make it!
 

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It is normal for parents to "want to change the child" in superficial ways--such as guiding the child towards proper behavior (for the child's own benefit). Parents want to see their children be successful, and encourage that--so that could be seen as "wanting to change" the child. Children are impacted by their parents...their parents WILL change them no matter what they do, so should try to focus on creating a positive change. I realize you're probably not meaning it this way though, and more in the negative "not accepting the child as who they are."
Wanting to create a change in the child essentially means the parent isn't accepting the child as they are, and wanting to 'help steer it in the right direction' can be the absolute worst direction for the child, not to mention that sometimes it comes from a very unconscious point.

I think that each of those three aspects can affect each personality type differently, I know for myself that if my parents didn't care much for me or hated me I would be completely fine with it, but my personal hell would be to be in a state of constant bombardment of expectations to adapt to my parents way of thinking just because they think they're doing their jobs as parents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Wanting to create a change in the child essentially means the parent isn't accepting the child as they are, and wanting to 'help steer it in the right direction' can be the absolute worst direction for the child, not to mention that sometimes it comes from a very unconscious point.

I think that each of those three aspects can affect each personality type differently, I know for myself that if my parents didn't care much for me or hated me I would be completely fine with it, but my personal hell would be to be in a state of constant bombardment of expectations to adapt to my parents way of thinking just because they think they're doing their jobs as parents.
Exactly my thoughts. If someone hates me, I can still tolerate that fact and move on. If someone doesn't care for me, I can accept the person as they are and move on.
But if I know that it is because of my ways of thinking that my parents are hating me and... + I can't reject their wish of changing me because they love me, so how can I do wrong to them by rejecting them on this?
I started this thread out of extreme emotions because I had a fight. It was a mess. But it is sorted now. Actually.. this time even better. I already had done this.. adapting my mind to certain ways of thinking (Si Te, especially).. Now I am planning to be self aware of my own original thoughts by doing things that don't involve any analytical thinking.

I have started to wonder either I am an ENTJ or you are an INFJ?
I always get ENTJ on mbti tests.
 

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I agree that either one of those could be damaging, depending on the child.

For example, orchid children would not grow to their full potentials if the parents neglected them. But if their parents hate them? Some of them might get even more determined to prove their parents their worth.

Another example is when manipulative parents meet children who aren't aware of their parent's intention. Say, if the parents divorced and the mom hates the dad now. The mom will try to brainwash her children to hate the dad. As a result, the children live their entire life hating their dad.

But in my personal opinion, not caring for the child is potentially the worst! It's quite common for kids to get into accidents that costs their lives here, just because of parent neglect. For example, kids running on the street with a lot of cars, kids drowning in swimming pool, etc.

As damaging as the other two option could be, I think losing one's life is the heaviest loss.
 
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i think hating the child was an extreme option. 99.999% of parents dont hate their kids
I have never hated my child, and I think it is a parents duty to love their child, and if they don't then they need to try as hard as they can. Every child without exception deserves to feel loved imo.
But I have been very angry with my parents when I was a child for example because I was very forgetfull and bad with time management and I made sloppy errors in my homework and I lost track mid sentence, forgot words, spaced out, etc. and they kept reminding me of things, specially mostly mum and so I sometimes yelled to her that I hated her, but I didn't really deep down, I was just so very sick of all the nagging and she felt it was her responsibility but it wasn't; it was the ADD (ADHD) that did it. I love my whole family including my parents. When I was adult I finally was told that I had ADHD and then it suddenly made sence why it was so problematic in my youth.
 

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I have never hated my child, and I think it is a parents duty to love their child, and if they don't then they need to try as hard as they can. Every child without exception deserves to feel loved imo.
But I have been very angry with my parents when I was a child for example because I was very forgetfull and bad with time management and I made sloppy errors in my homework and I lost track mid sentence, forgot words, spaced out, etc. and they kept reminding me of things, specially mostly mum and so I sometimes yelled to her that I hated her, but I didn't really deep down, I was just so very sick of all the nagging and she felt it was her responsibility but it wasn't; it was the ADD (ADHD) that did it. I love my whole family including my parents. When I was adult I finally was told that I had ADHD and then it suddenly made sence why it was so problematic in my youth.
i hate my parents. its more common for kids to hate their parents because parents have the ability to ruin your life forever. but most dont mean to make you miserable forever. they are just not capable of understanding the damage they are doing. some parents dont actually care because they only think of themselves and what they think is good without considering the emotions of the child. for example it is still common in many cultures to beat your children when they mess up. but that leads to self hate, self harm and teaching to solve issues with violence. but its seen as tradition in many cultures so many parents (even people that suffer and have suffered) to excuse it as "its just how things are done". without realizing they are committing domestic abuse.
 

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i hate my parents. its more common for kids to hate their parents because parents have the ability to ruin your life forever. but most dont mean to make you miserable forever. they are just not capable of understanding the damage they are doing. some parents dont actually care because they only think of themselves and what they think is good without considering the emotions of the child. for example it is still common in many cultures to beat your children when they mess up. but that leads to self hate, self harm and teaching to solve issues with violence. but its seen as tradition in many cultures so many parents (even people that suffer and have suffered) to excuse it as "its just how things are done". without realizing they are committing domestic abuse.
I am very sorry to reat that!! 😔🤗
It totally sucks that parents could even do that to their kids, I could never do it 🥺
No children deserves to be beaten ever!!!
Well no person at all really
 

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Exactly my thoughts. If someone hates me, I can still tolerate that fact and move on. If someone doesn't care for me, I can accept the person as they are and move on.
But if I know that it is because of my ways of thinking that my parents are hating me and... + I can't reject their wish of changing me because they love me, so how can I do wrong to them by rejecting them on this?
I started this thread out of extreme emotions because I had a fight. It was a mess. But it is sorted now. Actually.. this time even better. I already had done this.. adapting my mind to certain ways of thinking (Si Te, especially).. Now I am planning to be self aware of my own original thoughts by doing things that don't involve any analytical thinking.

I have started to wonder either I am an ENTJ or you are an INFJ?
I always get ENTJ on mbti tests.
Interesting thought there.. I've only got once ENTJ on an MBTI test, but other than that you seem to be in the exact same mindset I might find myself in. Your full understanding of my way of thinking certainly points to you being the same type as me. I think there's a much greater probability we're both ENTJ than INFJ, since we're mainly focusing here on intuitive problem solving and defining formulas with changing variables therein. From my experience, nearly all people would look at what I'm putting forward and will put some kind of filter to it, even ESTjs will take my words in the context of Si until I can show them some usecases. Ni doms can discard my words as well since the functions would be in the opposite attitude.

ENTJs are very often mistyped, mostly because of the wrong descriptions in anything other than jung's of the Extraverted Thinker with aspects of the Introverted Intuitive:
and this one:
But also because personally I know that inferior Fi would make you identify with anything for the sake of having at least some kind of sense of identity. That is why the idea that I've put forward in the other thread that you find 100% effective, is so effective - it covers my Fi inferior with a strong Ni anchor. It's a source of resolution that will never be disregarded. I personally also find that no matter what extreme turns my life takes, even through experiences or realizations that alter my perception of the world, that one thing stays solid and proves time and time again to be right.

What always gets me is when people (especially those close to me) see me as something I'm not, because it screws up with my perception of myself, I start to question myself. I consider this the result of my blind Si and inferior Fi. It's like yeah, I've got the gifts in fast learning, in getting whatever needed done, in being creative and understanding how others think, but that doesn't mean everybody can just frame me to their own preference and just place me in a framework where I'm the most useful for them, because this just absolutely sucks! It feels like I'm being used to the point of personal violation of my soul's integrity. It took me a while to realize this because I'm literally selfless, but now that I know this I can recognize it pretty easily and create a counter personal interest that would defy the person/corporation who aims to use me(even if they do it subconsciously).

And what do I often hear in return? "You have potential, it would be a shame for you to not utilize it"... Have they no shame?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I personally also find that no matter what extreme turns my life takes, even through experiences or realizations that alter my perception of the world, that one thing stays solid and proves time and time again to be right.

What always gets me is when people (especially those close to me) see me as something I'm not, because it screws up with my perception of myself, I start to question myself. I consider this the result of my blind Si and inferior Fi. It's like yeah, I've got the gifts in fast learning, in getting whatever needed done, in being creative and understanding how others think, but that doesn't mean everybody can just frame me to their own preference and just place me in a framework where I'm the most useful for them, because this just absolutely sucks! It feels like I'm being used to the point of personal violation of my soul's integrity. It took me a while to realize this because I'm literally selfless, but now that I know this I can recognize it pretty easily and create a counter personal interest that would defy the person/corporation who aims to use me(even if they do it subconsciously).

And what do I often hear in return? "You have potential, it would be a shame for you to not utilize it"... Have they no shame?
Exactly true for me too, each word! :oops:

In my mind, I have lived like an ENTJ. I have valued efficiency over anything else. But in the outer world, what is visible is that I am doing everything for everyone else's sake.

That was because I thought that the most efficient output would only be there if my parent's viewpoint would be taken into consideration. (Had a bad experience in childhood, learnt wrong things, wrong beliefs)
I wasn't allowed to do my own things. Had helicopter parents. And I thought that there is something so faulty inside me that my parents can't even trust me enough to do my own work.

And that is how my troubled life took a start. From then onwards, every second of my life was a hell.

That is why mbti does not give a true description of anyone's personality. I think I have a tritype that relates more to ENTJs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
i hate my parents. its more common for kids to hate their parents because parents have the ability to ruin your life forever. but most dont mean to make you miserable forever. they are just not capable of understanding the damage they are doing.
All toxic parents think that they love their children and do unloving things in the name of love.
 

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i hate my parents. its more common for kids to hate their parents because parents have the ability to ruin your life forever. but most dont mean to make you miserable forever. they are just not capable of understanding the damage they are doing. some parents dont actually care because they only think of themselves and what they think is good without considering the emotions of the child. for example it is still common in many cultures to beat your children when they mess up. but that leads to self hate, self harm and teaching to solve issues with violence. but its seen as tradition in many cultures so many parents (even people that suffer and have suffered) to excuse it as "its just how things are done". without realizing they are committing domestic abuse.
I understand, some cultures indeed have the tradition of physically punishing their children for the smallest mistakes.

I don't think your parents have any evil intentions. They're just oblivious to the fact that some traditions are started by people who are uneducated, and as society gets more educated we need to get rid of some of the outdated traditions.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
I understand, some cultures indeed have the tradition of physically punishing their children for the smallest mistakes.

I don't think your parents have any evil intentions. They're just oblivious to the fact that some traditions are started by people who are uneducated, and as society gets more educated we need to get rid of some of the outdated traditions.
In the end.. the result is that - the child has to deal with his trauma, self worth issues, unacceptance issues, etc .. and the parent? He just gets the blame that he didn't do a good parenting but gets a clean chit that parents' intentions were good.
You know.. even parents want that the child should understand that parents' intentions aren't wrong. But the parent doesn't want to understand that how their behaviour is hurting their child and even adding to unsolvable issues in his life which he may have to deal with forever.
So, its always that the child is expected to understand even if it is the child who is tolerating and dealing with issues.

The parent is still living his life freely but the child is struggling to live like a normal human being.

EDIT- I think that the child must work on solving his own issues first. Be a normal mentally healthy human being. And after that, he must work on understanding his parents. Otherwise the parent's part will only create a mess in child's life.
 

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Exactly true for me too, each word! :oops:

In my mind, I have lived like an ENTJ. I have valued efficiency over anything else. But in the outer world, what is visible is that I am doing everything for everyone else's sake.

That was because I thought that the most efficient output would only be there if my parent's viewpoint would be taken into consideration. (Had a bad experience in childhood, learnt wrong things, wrong beliefs)
I wasn't allowed to do my own things. Had helicopter parents. And I thought that there is something so faulty inside me that my parents can't even trust me enough to do my own work.

And that is how my troubled life took a start. From then onwards, every second of my life was a hell.

That is why mbti does not give a true description of anyone's personality. I think I have a tritype that relates more to ENTJs.
Yeah, my parents might be helicopters as well now that I think of it, I just don't have another reference. All in all very relateable to the point of shock, I find it funny how hard it is to recognize myself in others words, but now that I think about it, all of your threads make sense now.
I used to think I was a 3w4 for a time, but I know now that I'm a definite 8w9, going into the 9 dissociation when around my parents or in stressful social circumstances(more so while being a teen). I would have never thought I was an ENTJ E8 just a couple of years ago, shows how disconnected I am from my actual image.

EDIT: Regarding the child getting all of the muck that their parents unconsciously put on them - the child may unconsciously internalize it and play out the same thing with their own kids, creating a neverending loop of suffering. All coming from a point of ignorance. It is most true, this saying: "All suffering is caused by ignorance".
 

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I understand, some cultures indeed have the tradition of physically punishing their children for the smallest mistakes.

I don't think your parents have any evil intentions. They're just oblivious to the fact that some traditions are started by people who are uneducated, and as society gets more educated we need to get rid of some of the outdated traditions.
both my parents have masters degrees. im not buying their decisions were uneducated. simply a lack of effort. for example....my parents moved from africa when i was 7. my parents said "we didnt think about the consequences of racism when we put you in a white country and in an all white school". but when it came to whether or not to have another child, they were able to do cost benefit analysis as to whether a child would be worth it to them...

the toxic behaviors have continued into early adulthood. becoming more damaging as they seek control my life into adulthood. everyone always says "but im sure they still love you...you might understand it later". but when youve been on your death bed because of their choices on what is "best for you" and later been forcibly drugged just because you want the freedom to be yourself....you just have to accept you were birthed by evil people....because if how they treat me is out of "love"..... if that is love then i dont want anything to do with it

i tell people all the time now, trying to live your life clinging to the idea you should make your parents happy can also be the thing that kills you. you dont owe them anything. no one does. no one asked to be born into this miserable existence
 
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