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When someone offends you, do you respond well? Do you let it "roll off your shoulder" and move on? What if the offense is perpetual and even, perhaps, increases in intensity?

Do you forgive and move on or do you get pissed and hedge against them to stop the attack from continuing, or perhaps even counter-attack?

Most importantly, what brings you to that point of choosing to forgive or not? Personal offense? Stepping on your values? Threats? Other?

And lastly, if you do forgive, if the situation repeats, are you as angry as the first time (like you never really let the first time go) or does each offense stand on its own?
 

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Forgiveness has nothing to do with the person who wronged you. Forgiveness is something that you do for yourself. So yes, I forgive, and I forgive easily.

However, I never forget.

The person's offense will be added to my internal data catalogue and it will be factored into every interaction I have with that person for the rest of their life.

I generally don't get angry with people. Irritated or frustrated for sure, but not angry. I have a very long fuse, so for me to really become angry with someone they would have to seriously [email protected] things up in a spectacular way. The odds of my maintaining any sort of relationship with someone at that point are slim to none.
 

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If the critisisms I recieve make sense to me I will quietly absorb them, however offended I may be. If the critisisms I receive does not make sense to me I will quietly boil inside, calm down, shake it off, relocate and hatch an amazingly intricate plan to spell my aggressor's utter doom, all in due time.

If you however realise you were unjust and show this to me before the plan comes into fruition, I will forgive you. Perhaps.
 

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The person's offense will be added to my internal data catalogue and it will be factored into every interaction I have with that person for the rest of their life.
This is said perfectly.

For me, there's also a meter for each person; they each start at different positions on the meter from observations I've already made(whether or not it's based in reality). Depending on our interactions they either drop down the meter or move up. Each situation is rated in it's own context and then is placed into the system.

People can surprise you sometimes and quickly rise or fall.

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Forgiveness is based on a number of things such as their own aptitude for comprehending how I've been spited, their overall situation, their genuine desire to reconcile things, their maturity, what type of person they are, is there trust? etc...

I think real forgiveness is reached after an interval of 'harmony' and said person is back on the meter at a high rank.

I can forget about things, but as Impavidus said, "I never forget."

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In general though, I don't have many people I need to forgive or forget. And random encounters in the wild are all situational.

I also wanted to add that some people regardless of how far off the meter they've dropped, I'll always view the person with high esteem because they will have already transcended into another system.
 

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I don't really understand forgiveness. I understand acceptance better. I can accept people's flaws. I can accept that someone did something that I don't like, and get on with my life. I can analyze their motives and try to see their perspective. If they do the same thing over and over, either I get more angry and distance myself from them, or I get accustomed to it and learn to mostly ignore it. But I'm not sure I ever forgive them. A little piece of me always remembers and is keeping score.
 

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If a stranger or acquaintance says something to me that's meant to cause offense I'm remarkably good at letting it roll off my shoulders. With friends it's almost the opposite; I get volatile a little too easily. I forgive them easily for it though, and there's never any residual feelings, I just get a bit combative and then it's done and over with.

There are people in my life who have crossed so many lines with me that I don't want them around me anymore. I don't wish ill upon them and normally don't think badly about them, but want them to live their life separately from my own. I wouldn't really call this forgiveness given that they're not pardoned for their behaviour, but I don't lash out at them or try to extract revenge.

If I do forgive someone, let them into my life, and they repeat the offense I get angrier than I was before, although there are certain situations where I allow remission.

The people who I cannot forgive are people whose offenses impacted me but weren't against me. This usually happens when someone hurts those I care about. If my friend's boyfriend crosses a line, upsets her, she stays with me a few days, she rants about how angry she is at him, and then in a few weeks she forgives him, I still don't forgive him because I really can't? The offense wasn't against me, so the pardon's not mine to give. So these are the situations that usually find me actively angry at someone, but unwilling or unable to forgive them.

I think the only people I'm angry with (and I mean actually hold a grudge against) and have struggled to forgive throughout my life are my own parents/parental figures. The older I get though the more I see their sides, and it makes it easier to understand why they acted the way they did, which helps.
 

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When someone offends you, do you respond well? Do you let it "roll off your shoulder" and move on? What if the offense is perpetual and even, perhaps, increases in intensity?

Do you forgive and move on or do you get pissed and hedge against them to stop the attack from continuing, or perhaps even counter-attack?

Most importantly, what brings you to that point of choosing to forgive or not? Personal offense? Stepping on your values? Threats? Other?

And lastly, if you do forgive, if the situation repeats, are you as angry as the first time (like you never really let the first time go) or does each offense stand on its own?
Based on INTJ ex, INTJ soulmate and three close INTJ friends:

1. I find this correlates most often to enneagram type. For the most part, they shut down and refuse to respond when offended- except for the CP6w5. She gets aggressive instead. The 1w9 will absolutely not react on a personal level to anyone except for me, but on a social level- if she feels someone is being bullied, has been subjected to something offensive, etc.- she will definitely speak out. It's all calculated, though- the only ones who react in anger without thinking are the two 6s.

2. The 1w9 will let you know she's displeased, but if you keep pushing, she'll eventually attack back (keep in mind she only does this with me, as nobody else really knows her well enough to get under her skin like I can. Oops). She tends to put up walls- most of them just ignore annoyances until it reaches a certain point. They're either annoyed or they're not, but once those "I can't see you" blinders come down, they will not go back up, and the INTJ will be annoyed and let you know it until you stop whatever the annoying thing was.

3. They don't hold grudges easily, so once they acquire a grudge, they are very slow to forgive. My beloved INTJ has been holding a grudge against her mother for something since fifth grade- her mother has no idea she's even still hurt by it, but she is. The biggest problem with this idea, I think, is that forgiveness requires communication. And the INTJs I know do not communicate when they're hurt. Breaking trust is the thing that's set them off the most- if you hurt someone they care about or hurt them personally, and they make the active realization that there's something wrong with your personality, the Ni realization can never be shut off, and they'll connect everything you do to that fatal flaw. I think the most dangerous part of this is that they don't ever remember the details of what happened- just how it made them feel- so even if you try to explain logically what happened, they won't remember the details well enough to be able to believe you. They take the general feeling of a situation and will continue with it, which makes it hard for you to attack the source of their displeasure with you.

4. If the person is "toxic", they get cut out entirely. They tend to remember the things before and bring them up, but those things are usually actually forgotten if you were genuinely forgiven. If they're remembering something that happened before the event and bringing it up, they're either a. using it as evidence to prove something or b. still angry about it and haven't truly forgiven you. If it's a, you can't really stop this from happening, it seems to be an xNTJ thing that they won't stop bringing it up if it's convenient evidence (you should probably stop arguing with them at that point, they won't be convinced). If it's b, prepare for a longgggggg talk and the necessity of cuddles.

Tldr: if you're genuinely forgiven, you're forgiven. If you did something personally offensive or broke their trust in a matter that they perceive to be on purpose, any "forgiveness" is probably not real until they really discuss it with you and air their grievance.

They also might just forget what they were angry about, which is both bad and good. Good because then you get cuddles, but bad because then you'll have the same fight the next week and just have to resolve it then.

They also might not realize they're doing this. I love my INTJs dearly and with all my heart and soul, but they tend to be somewhat emotionally suppressed, so much so that you might realize they're angry, but they will have absolutely no idea they're mad until they start shouting at you. On the flip side, they might seem mad and actually just be lost in thought. That happens a lot with my INTP 4w5 and INTJ 1w9/6w5 friends. The 6w7 and 5w6 are much more laid-back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Based on INTJ ex, INTJ soulmate and three close INTJ friends:

1. I find this correlates most often to enneagram type. For the most part, they shut down and refuse to respond when offended- except for the CP6w5. She gets aggressive instead. The 1w9 will absolutely not react on a personal level to anyone except for me, but on a social level- if she feels someone is being bullied, has been subjected to something offensive, etc.- she will definitely speak out. It's all calculated, though- the only ones who react in anger without thinking are the two 6s.

2. The 1w9 will let you know she's displeased, but if you keep pushing, she'll eventually attack back (keep in mind she only does this with me, as nobody else really knows her well enough to get under her skin like I can. Oops). She tends to put up walls- most of them just ignore annoyances until it reaches a certain point. They're either annoyed or they're not, but once those "I can't see you" blinders come down, they will not go back up, and the INTJ will be annoyed and let you know it until you stop whatever the annoying thing was.

3. They don't hold grudges easily, so once they acquire a grudge, they are very slow to forgive. My beloved INTJ has been holding a grudge against her mother for something since fifth grade- her mother has no idea she's even still hurt by it, but she is. The biggest problem with this idea, I think, is that forgiveness requires communication. And the INTJs I know do not communicate when they're hurt. Breaking trust is the thing that's set them off the most- if you hurt someone they care about or hurt them personally, and they make the active realization that there's something wrong with your personality, the Ni realization can never be shut off, and they'll connect everything you do to that fatal flaw. I think the most dangerous part of this is that they don't ever remember the details of what happened- just how it made them feel- so even if you try to explain logically what happened, they won't remember the details well enough to be able to believe you. They take the general feeling of a situation and will continue with it, which makes it hard for you to attack the source of their displeasure with you.

4. If the person is "toxic", they get cut out entirely. They tend to remember the things before and bring them up, but those things are usually actually forgotten if you were genuinely forgiven. If they're remembering something that happened before the event and bringing it up, they're either a. using it as evidence to prove something or b. still angry about it and haven't truly forgiven you. If it's a, you can't really stop this from happening, it seems to be an xNTJ thing that they won't stop bringing it up if it's convenient evidence (you should probably stop arguing with them at that point, they won't be convinced). If it's b, prepare for a longgggggg talk and the necessity of cuddles.

Tldr: if you're genuinely forgiven, you're forgiven. If you did something personally offensive or broke their trust in a matter that they perceive to be on purpose, any "forgiveness" is probably not real until they really discuss it with you and air their grievance.

They also might just forget what they were angry about, which is both bad and good. Good because then you get cuddles, but bad because then you'll have the same fight the next week and just have to resolve it then.

They also might not realize they're doing this. I love my INTJs dearly and with all my heart and soul, but they tend to be somewhat emotionally suppressed, so much so that you might realize they're angry, but they will have absolutely no idea they're mad until they start shouting at you. On the flip side, they might seem mad and actually just be lost in thought. That happens a lot with my INTP 4w5 and INTJ 1w9/6w5 friends. The 6w7 and 5w6 are much more laid-back.
Super-useful post. The bolded part is very accurate for me...and that's someone I care about. For someone in whom I have no emotional investment, I have complete tolerance for personal attacks to a point. Once that line is crossed, I cut them out entirely but sometimes passive aggressively attack them until I cease to be pissed.
 

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When someone offends you, do you respond well? Do you let it "roll off your shoulder" and move on? What if the offense is perpetual and even, perhaps, increases in intensity?

It tends to depend on the person and the circumstance, I've learnt to be more "tolerable" let's say to certain people because it's just a part of their personality and I have to work on my patience/reactive nature as is because it can get me into trouble. This can depend on the criticism itself though if it is actually constructive and I see it as correct then well it could be stated nicer but if it's constructive then ultimately it's useful, depends if it's criticising for no purpose other than to be offensive or whether it's constructive criticism just delivered badly. I don't tend to really forget when someone offends me. I think Enneagram tends to play a large role in this, if someone has a joke then I am not bothered by it but if it's a proper insult or gets more aggressive I will quickly bite back usually rather confrontationally if in person anyway, there are certain points I can quickly become rather confrontational/enraged about which is primarily when I've had people personally involve my family.

Do you forgive and move on or do you get pissed and hedge against them to stop the attack from continuing, or perhaps even counter-attack?
The answer is largely situational, if I think it's a one time thing I will forgive and give a virtual I guess "fresh start" on things, I don't like to let others opinions affect me it's counter-productive but if it's constructive I can use it, if someone just keeps prodding and insulting then I'll get tired of interaction with them . I have a longer fuse then I once did, I have two types of anger the one where I yell for a few minutes then I calm down, I'm usually pretty physically open in terms of frustration and anger physically, the worse one for both me and the other is when I'm quiet and contemplative because most likely I'll be trying to suppress my anger but at the same time thinking of how I intend to methodically get them back (I have to work against that inclination). It all depends on what has been done, insults I am not really that offended by, it's more actions such as breaking my trust that I truly have difficulty forgiving and forgetting.

Most importantly, what brings you to that point of choosing to forgive or not? Personal offense? Stepping on your values? Threats? Other?
I try and be as forgiving as possible it doesn't necessarily mean I'll automatically have lots to do with them from then on (forgive/not holding a grudge but not necessarily forget), no one is perfect I am certainly not so I guess I try to forgive people because I know I've done things I have needed forgiveness for as well, but it all depends on what has been done and the person's motivations behind it that determine whether I truly forgive and attempt to forget.

And lastly, if you do forgive, if the situation repeats, are you as angry as the first time (like you never really let the first time go) or does each offense stand on its own?[/QUOTE]
I can forgive but forgetting is another thing, especially if someone betrays me I have a very hard time forgiving let alone forgetting that, but I don't tend to really hold grudges if someone say's with logical reasoning I don't want to be your friend then oh well so be it (but then one persons logic is totally different to another), I don't like grudges I tend to be slow to develop a grudge but if I do I tend to harbor it for a long time, if it becomes a routine I.E persistant fighting and the like eventually I will cut all contact, I don't maintain contact if the person becomes 'toxic' or a negative influence on my life, I'm a man of my word if I tell someone they are forgiven then they are truly forgiven. I see no point in continuing a relationship if there is something you cannot forgive, if the relationship is toxic there's no point/just end it is how I handle things like that. Bad influences and relationships in my life get cut out in the form of a cancer. I am trying to learn to live by the forgiving freely style but being someone who takes a long time to trust it makes it harder to forgive once that trust is broken, just because you forgive doesn't mean you have to keep interacting as far as I'm concerned, I've forgiven people for things doesn't mean I see it as useful to have relationships with them in my life.

Hopefully that made a modicum of sense...being sleep deprived doesn't help in formulating and expressing thoughts :laughing:.
 

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it depends on what you're defining as 'forgiveness', really . . . with that said though, i don't see (my idea of) forgiveness as a thing you can choose. something either leaves a shard of shrapnel under your skin, or it doesn't. you can choose/decide to disregard the fact that it's there, but to me that's a different thing.

i don't stockpile 'evidence', or at least i hope i don't. i dismiss things if they're really resolved, but the caveat is that if someone turns out to be a repeat offender, then their past record does count. that's because to me that's a whole other ballgame from individual things. it either means we're fundamentally less compatible than i thought, or it means you think i'm too stupid to remember you've done this before. a single incident i'll evaluate on its merits, somewhat separate from you as a person, because there isn't too much other people can do that i can't picture myself doing too in the right circumstances. but a pattern of the same thing over and over tells me something about you, and it also tells me something about your opinion of me.

broadly speaking, i think the two things i'm least likely to forgive are: exploiting the sense of fairness/impartiality that makes me able to absorb individual slips, and assuming i'm dumb. i think of myself as pretty easygoing most of the time, but i'll burn down the world where you're concerned if you touch those two things.
 

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It depends a lot on 1) who the person is to me and 2) what their intentions were. I'm pretty hard to offend in the first place so there is that. If the person is not someone I feel particularly connected to, then I tend to just ignore the offense. In this instance, forgiveness is irrelevant. If the person is someone who is close to me and they didn't mean to offend me, then yeah, I tend to forgive pretty easily as long as they show that they understand why I was offended and make an effort to not repeat the behavior. If it's someone who is intentionally being hurtful, I try to consider their state of mind (are they angry/defensive about something, are they frustrated, are they just being mean spirited?) I try to give people the benefit of the doubt when possible, so I suppose in some sense I "forgive" them, even if I never outwardly acknowledge it. All of that said, if someone is either being intentionally hurtful and/or there is a repeated pattern of offense even after directly addressing the issue, I tend to distance myself from the other person. If I've given a person the opportunity to change their behavior and they have chosen not to, then there is little point in continuing the relationship beyond the required minimum. I don't personally hold grudges, but I do pay attention to patterns of behavior. I'm not upset about a person's behavior in the past, but I'm wary of putting myself in a situation that could lead to the same type of behavior, so I suppose in that sense I do "keep score" but in this instance "keeping score" isn't about getting revenge; it's about avoiding future emotional pain.
 

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The person's offense will be added to my internal data catalogue and it will be factored into every interaction I have with that person for the rest of their life.
Yes, this exactly!
 

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Reading some of the responses here, I have to wonder how people are defining forgiveness. It's one of those words that seems to have been bastardized by pop culture to mean something other than what it does.

To forgive is simply to stop being angry or resentful towards the person who wronged you. Period.

It doesn't mean you accept or excuse what they did. It doesn't mean you have to be best buds again or have any sort of a relationship with them at all. All it means is that you, as the wronged person, have decided to move on and stop wallowing in your anger/hurt. As the internet meme says, "Holding on to anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die." Refusing to forgive, hurts the one who was offended far more than it can ever hurt the offender.

Which circles back to my earlier post. I've had people ask me before if I've forgiven them for something or other. My response is always the same: "It's none of your damn business." Whether or not I choose to move on or to nurse my anger/hurt has nothing to do with them.

When you forgive someone, you're not doing anything for them. You haven't done them a favour or granted them a second chance. There's nothing that needs to be communicated or understood. When you forgive someone, all you're saying is "I've decided to stop being angry."

...

At least that's how it works in my world :p
 

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When someone offends you, do you respond well? Do you let it "roll off your shoulder" and move on? What if the offense is perpetual and even, perhaps, increases in intensity?

Do you forgive and move on or do you get pissed and hedge against them to stop the attack from continuing, or perhaps even counter-attack?

Most importantly, what brings you to that point of choosing to forgive or not? Personal offense? Stepping on your values? Threats? Other?

And lastly, if you do forgive, if the situation repeats, are you as angry as the first time (like you never really let the first time go) or does each offense stand on its own?
I forgive easily, forgiveness is not about the other person, it is about not allowing your own life to revolve around bitterness towards another person. That being said, I will usually discuss it with them and give people a second or third chance on an honest mistake, and then start drawing clear boundaries if it continues.

Anger is simply a result of expectations not being met. The age old equation Expectations - Reality = Disappointment. Yes I can get angry when someone doesn't live up to my expectations, however it is generally fairly short lived. I tend to take action instead of holding grudges, I set and discuss boundaries and then if someone continues to cross the boundaries I've set up then there will be appropriate consequences up and to the point of dissolving any relationship with that person.

This is a great book on the subject of healthy boundaries. Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No, to Take Control of Your Life: Dr. Henry Cloud, Dr. John Townsend, Richard Fredricks: 9781480554979: Amazon.com: Books
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I forgive easily, forgiveness is not about the other person, it is about not allowing your own life to revolve around bitterness towards another person. That being said, I will usually discuss it with them and give people a second or third chance on an honest mistake, and then start drawing clear boundaries if it continues.

Anger is simply a result of expectations not being met. The age old equation Expectations - Reality = Disappointment. Yes I can get angry when someone doesn't live up to my expectations, however it is generally fairly short lived. I tend to take action instead of holding grudges, I set and discuss boundaries and then if someone continues to cross the boundaries I've set up then there will be appropriate consequences up and to the point of dissolving any relationship with that person.

This is a great book on the subject of healthy boundaries. Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No, to Take Control of Your Life: Dr. Henry Cloud, Dr. John Townsend, Richard Fredricks: 9781480554979: Amazon.com: Books
My psychiatrist suggested I read that book, and he also suggested 3-4 other books those authors wrote (I think they were all in the Boundaries series).
 
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For casual aquaintances, I don't tend to get offended easily, because I don't expect much.

(I guess the level of friendship is a function of my expectations of them... if I don't expect much, then we are not very close friends, but if I find I can expect respect from them and can trust them and won't get annoyed at how they think, then I can become closer friends with them.)

To forgive someone close to me, in my world, requires they a) understand exactly how they have offended me, and b) express remorse and want to be forgiven.

Although I do not want the offence to happen again, it may accidentally, and then it will require the same discussion.

People teasing or provoking me make me very angry.

The person who I thought was my best friend should have known she was acting in an unkind and teasing manner that no one would want their trusted friend to act like, unless they really like annoying friends. I mean sibling teasing I get. 'Friend' teasing and making fun at my expense, no. I haven't spoken to her since. I don't want to reach out to her. But if we talk about it and she understands what happened and acts like she wants to be friends again, I will forgive her. It might be awkward at first, but maybe we will build a better friendship out of it. She has offended me a few other times and likes to laugh at me... reasons why I don't like telling her things... guess she didn't deserve to become my closest friend anyhow.

People laughing at me make me very angry too. My dad did when I was 8 and I overheard it. For that, and other reasons, I do not like my dad. He's still my dad so I put up with him, but I don't like him as a person. It sounds childish to me, and that was why I couldn't and can't talk to him about it. But it very deeply hurt me. That is an instance where the offence causes me not to trust someone, and that is a much harder thing to change than just 'forgiveness' will accomplish. Probably that, and a few other factors, strengthened my 9ishness by causing the core feeling of being unloved and unlovable.
 

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I forgive and forget easily, because I seldom feel as though someone has wronged me.

I guess I'm sort of oblivious to other people's motives.

If you go out of your way to directly attack me or someone I care about, we're going to have it out until I feel your behavior has been corrected.

We're all human, and I know I make a ton of mistakes. I don't expect others to dwell on my mistakes (some folks do, can't be helped) so I don't dwell on the shortcomings of others.
 

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I mentally catalogue that person's behaviour and place them in the appropriate category to set my interactions with them in the future. Forgive, as in I don't obssess and upset myself over it? Definately. Doesn't mean I won't change my interactions with that person in the future in order to assert my boundaries.
 

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forget, no
forgive, after a long while maybe
some one majorly pisses me off i might restrain from kicking their ass after i rip them out a new asshole
i will give them a choice of either fessing up to their mortal sin [pissing me off] or being put on artificial respirator
i mind my own business and some one will have to stab me in the back before my ''kill switch'' is activated
at first i will reason with them but if they show no remorse or continue to argue with me then it's no holds barred
 
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