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Hi, just confirming that 4 and 4 romantic partners are disastrous for others as for me? Is it ok for friendships?

I had a heart-breaking time with someone special (former best friend) who I deem to be a four. Worse part is I did it to myself because I knew he was polyamorous-don't-believe-in-relationships that due to self-esteem and Four probs but expected him to want to be exclusive. It tore me apart on a deep level because, yeah, I have been with many types/ppl and break-ups always make me bleed but he really understood my dark side and I understood his... his dark side scares me even. Anyway, his depression brought me down not up and I had to end it before it got bad because all I want is someone to be strong and loyal to me and he is against monogamy and I knew that before we became intimate accidentally. (I know I am dumb.) (Alcohol.) (...Four.) He felt bad about it, and wanted to stay friends but I couldn't. It numbed the pain for a short while but then the immediate, extreme downward heavy feelings of rejection and depression (I don't use this word lightly) were unbearable.

Do 4 friends compete for individualism? Tragicness? What about the melancholy factor? Or is it good because we all exist in our other reality? How about growth among 4s?
 

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I think fours can be very good friends, as long as they're not in the rocky pits of disintegration (in which case, they'd be a crappy friend to anyone, not just a fellow four).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I think fours can be very good friends, as long as they're not in the rocky pits of disintegration (in which case, they'd be a crappy friend to anyone, not just a fellow four).
Okay thanks!
 

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It depends on the person. I had a certain relationship (not romantic) with an ENFP type 4 that was stressful on the both of us because we both stubbornly stuck to our own ideas of "what should be." Also, I needed to change my personality to accommodate person that I felt that I was losing myself.
 

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We went to a party. I decided: will I not drink or will I drink and get wasted.

Basically I was intoxicated and bent on acting out however I could. We drove back to my friends'. I couldn't drive so I had to stay. I pushed him. We were intimate. He was so sweet and loving and hungry to be loved-- he's much younger than me-- and bc he was so sweet and affectionate, I was so happy w him. Stayed in bed all day till 5pm the next day. I fell in love w him even though I knew he did not believe in monogamy & is depressed, tough childhood like me, we bond over that. (But he doesn't try to go anywhere in life and is basically trapped.) Then, I was torn up all week and went to see him the next wk and tell him it was a mistake and to say how sad I was that he doesn't believe in relationships (huuuge deal reader for me), bc this means I cannot be w him or hook up w him. (My other friend thought it was wrong of him to do anything w me when I was so drunk. He was one of my best friends, like soulmate friends before.) He also expressed a lot of disappointment about the whole thing and tried to explain why he doesn't believe in relationships. Then I cried and we had sex. I was so angry at myself and wanting someone who's unavailable & off limits, and for doing the same thing but sober. I tried to make myself stop but I couldn't. I left abruptly at 3am and almost crashed in the heavy, dangerous rain coming home. I felt like I had broken my own heart. Life felt like it wasn't worth living, I couldn't sleep, so distressed I was gonna snap. He was and is very sorry and wants to be my friend still, misses me, but I can't bear it. I accept responsibility for my actions and am sad to hurt my friend by breaking the friendship. And the worse part is I created this situation by drinking, that leads to drinking a lot, which makes me very unstable always.

There were many good learning experiences.
1. I hit rock bottom.
2. Sought help for my relationship/ love turmoil.
3. Seen many improvements.
4. I'm not dating or trying to date !! (BIG change)
5. I started in a group therapy program that identifies these problems and its effects in all areas of my life-> more improvements.
6. I realized I could fall in love again. (I know it sounds ridiculous in context, but I Never fall in love. I always dwell on 1 ex.)
7. Realized I could date people who are younger than twice my age. (BIG change too)
8. I don't want to have sex before being in a committed relationship.
9. Stopped drinking.
10. I don't go out w the first person to show interest like before.
11. Hang out w ppl who support my growth.
12. The list goes on and on...

So, I asked for ppl's take on being FRIENDS with a 4 as a 4. My friend with whom who all this drama happened was a very unhealthy 4 & it was bringing & keeping me down. We commiserated and often discussed our childhood and present turmoil and relationship problems. After all the heartache, it was a positive event that led me to celebrating my 23rd birthday today as the healthiest, best place I've ever been, though not perfect.
@mimesis
 

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I personally haven't witnessed 4-4 relationships in any great detail so cannot offer personal insights. I don't think all 4-pairs would crash and burn by necessity, however. That is more a matter of individuals. Enneagram type doesn't determine everything.

Helen Palmer, who has observed and analyzed inter-type relationships in great detail, does note that 4-4 long-term romantic relationships / spouses / etc are extremely rare. She doesn't speculate on the reasons, but also adds that 4s often make deep, lifelong friendships with each other.

In response to the OP, Herb Pearce notes that two fours together actually can compete for drama and attention and blow each other out of the water by their own intensity. That's the only thing I've seen on that particular topic, in books or irl.
 

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I personally haven't witnessed 4-4 relationships in any great detail so cannot offer personal insights. I don't think all 4-pairs would crash and burn by necessity, however. That is more a matter of individuals. Enneagram type doesn't determine everything.

Helen Palmer, who has observed and analyzed inter-type relationships in great detail, does note that 4-4 long-term romantic relationships / spouses / etc are extremely rare. She doesn't speculate on the reasons, but also adds that 4s often make deep, lifelong friendships with each other.

In response to the OP, Herb Pearce notes that two fours together actually can compete for drama and attention and blow each other out of the water by their own intensity. That's the only thing I've seen on that particular topic, in books or irl.
that sounds about right. what other types does she speculate are best for 4w5s in friendship + also romance?
 

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I am a 4 and have the strongest of attractions to other 4s. They are the best of mirrors to point out where you need to work on yourself. I can see how if any of the parties is unaware of their personality it could spell out a VERY dramatic up and down relationship. The "who is the most special?" wars even. I am salivating at the thoughts really. Although that is probably cause I have been married to a 5 for almost ten years. He keeps me well grounded and feeling loved. It doesn't keep me from fantasizing about a 4 and 4 match...I imagine it would be like Bonnie and Clyde.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I am salivating at the thoughts really. Although that is probably cause I have been married to a 5 for almost ten years. He keeps me well grounded and feeling loved. It doesn't keep me from fantasizing about a 4 and 4 match...I imagine it would be like Bonnie and Clyde.
Oh God. *So the Four romantic fantasies don't even go away when you're married !* %$^!8 Oh noooo
And 4-4 is probably the same tragic outcome as B & C too!
Thanks for sharing. :) I appreciate your feedback esp that you feel good w a caring 5. Didn't think of them as an option at all.
 

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I've never been in an actual relationship before so i'm not gonna be able to give you the satisfying answer you're looking for, i'm against stereotyping so you wouldn't hear me say or read me comment about "if you love someone blah blah blah" or "this doesn't affect anything blah blah blah" or something like that. I won't but here's my thoughts but since i'm new here and i rarely read the definition of 4w5 i've manage to hold onto the essential meaning of it. Seems like we individualist are quite romantic and a really expressionist individuals. So a relationship between 2 4w5 isn't quite bad don't ya think?

Regarding my statement please correct me if i'm wrong. Much appreciated thanks.
 

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I have a fellow 4w5 friend whom I've only known for a few months but we're inseparable. I think we get along well because we have similar views and ideas, if two 4s don't share the same values then the relationship is an explosive mess that only ends with heartbreak.
 
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