Personality Cafe banner

Does The Free market Exist? If so, is it beneficial?

  • It exists and is probably the best System of Economics.

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • It exists and perpetuates Bad economic Policy.

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • It is a myth and has never existed.

    Votes: 11 34.4%
  • I have No opinion.

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • Other. (Explain)

    Votes: 7 21.9%
  • America!

    Votes: 8 25.0%
  • Beeeeees!

    Votes: 11 34.4%

  • Total voters
    32
1 - 20 of 66 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
474 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Markets. Free. Capitalism. Free from what? Free for whom? In what way? What does it mean? Does the mythic ideal hold water?

Do it exist?

Do it function?

Is it obvious what My Opinion is?

Am I wearing brown slacks?

What does the West think of free market capitalism?



What do the Rest think of Free Market capitalism?



=======================================================================
Any Thoughts? Poems? Elaborate Macaroni sculptures?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,253 Posts
I personally wouldn't call it a free system when you are mostly bound by the class you were born into and opportunities you were exposed to (regardless of learning).
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,168 Posts
Voted myth. Even when there hasn't been government regulation, there's always been collusion in the form of price fixing, artificial scarcity, etc; all of which are anathema to a "free" market.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,497 Posts
It doesn't exist. There's always been some kind of regulation in one form or another and I don't see that changing. When people refer to free market they apparently just mean "more free". As I believe the laws concerning environmental care and working conditions should be way more strict than they are, I can't say I support free market, at least not in general. The US and the EU are currently (in secrecy) negotiating about some free trade agreement which I find worrying. The world is filled with examples of free agreements that have gone wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
474 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
It doesn't exist. There's always been some kind of regulation in one form or another and I don't see that changing. When people refer to free market they apparently just mean "more free".
Indeed, but when people say something is "More Free" , what is meant by that? If I were to say for example that my basketball court is "Freer" than the others in the neighborhood, what would that mean? Free Throws? Free from freedom?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,497 Posts
Indeed, but when people say something is "More Free" , what is meant by that? If I were to say for example that my basketball court is "Freer" than the others in the neighborhood, what would that mean? Free Throws? Free from freedom?
It's a vague expression, so I wouldn't know. I doubt many of the people referring to it aren't entirely sure either.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
478 Posts
I clicked Other (explain).

I think capitalism is inherently anti democratic arrangement. Without democracy, there can be no free market. Communism is more democratic arrangement. But thanks to the capitalist west (with its all threats with military action) communism was destroyed before it could realize its full potential.

Now, capitalism has crashed again. And there is no way to go anywhere anymore. Socialism and communism is capitalism's shadow. And capitalism cannot exist without socialism and communism. Socialism and communism does allow free market. We are about to experience the coexistence of capitalism with communism in a free market environment. I think capitalism will be beaten. But not completely obliterated. We will have a hybrid system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,592 Posts
Free market capitalism does not exist, there is no free market economy. There are always onerous government rules that Social types install to siphon money into their own pockets in the name of the greater good. Taxes are one thing but making an income off them is just theft.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,592 Posts
I clicked Other (explain).

I think capitalism is inherently anti democratic arrangement. Without democracy, there can be no free market. Communism is more democratic arrangement. But thanks to the capitalist west (with its all threats with military action) communism was destroyed before it could realize its full potential.

Now, capitalism has crashed again. And there is no way to go anywhere anymore. Socialism and communism is capitalism's shadow. And capitalism cannot exist without socialism and communism. Socialism and communism does allow free market. We are about to experience the coexistence of capitalism with communism in a free market environment. I think capitalism will be beaten. But not completely obliterated. We will have a hybrid system.
Actually Capitalism can exist as long as there is an opposing side. Abject poverty is enough for it to work.

Without Capitalism Socialism and Communism die from lack of funding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,254 Posts
I believe that there is a 'Free Market Capitalism' but it is very badly used and nurtured against pure capitalism and waning democracy in America.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
474 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I believe the word you're looking for is "misnomer." I hate when people use the word fallacy incorrectly :frustrating:
I have to disagree. A fallacy is a failure of reasoning. I think The "Free Market" is a failure to actually define terms, So I think it is indeed a fallacy, if an informal one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,007 Posts
I have to disagree. A fallacy is a failure of reasoning. I think The "Free Market" is a failure to actually define terms, So I think it is indeed a fallacy, if an informal one.
Are you saying that Free Market is undefined/meaningless or are you saying if it was defined according to the words "free" and "market" it wouldn't make sense to use it to describe what is being described?
A failure to define terms doesn't really indicate anything, any non-debate context few people go ahead and define what they say before they say it. There are no correct definitions, only certain accepted ones which vary between paradigms. Communism is defined in the dictionary as government control of resources, while in political/economic thought it can mean a variety of things that contradict that definition, such as "anarcho-communism".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
474 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Are you saying that Free Market is undefined/meaningless or are you saying if it was defined according to the words "free" and "market" it wouldn't make sense to use it to describe what is being described?
A failure to define terms doesn't really indicate anything, any non-debate context few people go ahead and define what they say before they say it. There are no correct definitions, only certain accepted ones which vary between paradigms. Communism is defined in the dictionary as government control of resources, while in political/economic thought it can mean a variety of things that contradict that definition, such as "anarcho-communism".
I'm saying that the colloquial common parlance uses of the term "Free Market" do not elaborate on what the market is supposed to be free from, or for whom it affords these freedoms to, or protects against. It would be like me saying the quality of this room is "Moderately adequate" without ever actually describing the features or dimensions of the room in any detail. By itself it's pretty non-descriptive.

Now if you were to use the term "Laisseze-faire" capitalism, now I understand what we're talking about is a westernized de-regulated market with little to no interference by way of tariff, subsidy, and based on the principals of 18th century french physiocrats view on economics.

"Anarcho-Communism" is similarly well defined.

"Free Market" has come to mean just about as many things as "God" in the last century, and so requires additional input to make sense of.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,053 Posts
Is there a single country without any form of taxation paid to the government? If so, all of its production and distribution must be state-owned and hence is Communist.

All countries have taxation systems. That's pretty much the starting block of socialism.

True 'free' capitalism doesn't exist, as far as I'm aware..? Apart from maybe shanty towns where trading is done without tax or anything. But even then, I wonder how much each person is willing to fuck their neighbour over for the greatest share of the 'free' profit.

Personally I don't think anything becomes a hellish, capitalist monster until it gets too big, at the point when bosses and employees are disconnected from the human impacts of the actions. It's actually well documents in psychological research. I watched a video called "The Seven Steps to Tyranny" (or something like that); one of the steps was to distance people from the effects of their actions. This is what happens when capitalist organisations get too big and they start focussing solely on profit. The individuals aren't to blame, it's a large-scale psychological phenomena which can only be understood theoretically, hence it needs also to be limited with counter-theories, such as those of socialist thought, as previously mentioned, which put slight limits on the potential greed of massive capitalist entities. Sadly it seems the massive entities are getting larger these days, hence more people disconnected from the consequences of their actions, leading only to worse things on the path ahead.

Heh, oops, slightly topical side-rant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,279 Posts
It is not whether free market exists or not, it is to what extent it is practiced in various deals in society.

When a man offers me his used phone for price he commands and I accept the deal without anyone telling us what to do it was free market transaction. Its as simple as that.
Is the system we live in totally compliant with principles of free market? No. There is way to much coercion at various levels. But the freer the better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,260 Posts
Well it depends on how you define it. I think in a global sense with everything taken together, the economy devolves into "free market" - it is the natural state of any economic system. Even with all of the regulation going on, there is a whole other process of circumvention that strives to mitigate these effects with lobbyists and whatnot. However on an individual level it varies. Depending on your wealth or economic savvy, your capacity to contribute and choose in the free market will be different, and your confrontation with regulation will be different as well. This is why I strongly believe to change the state of the economy requires addressing key participatory motivations on the individual level. The rot that causes all of this corruption begins at the individual, a slow drip fight and flight of anxiety and fear for survival - and this happens at the top and the bottom. When you remove this (where with technology and self initiative it is possible - channeling it into sole individual responsibility) you'll have an economy not based on a competition of individual need or survival, but instead a competition based on novelty and creativity. Remove anxiety and fear for survival and you have fundamentally redefined the constraints the "free market" (or whatever you call it) as it exists today operates by.
 
1 - 20 of 66 Posts
Top