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Discussion Starter #1
Have you come up with a realization or theory about a function or the way certain functions work together?

Post it here.

It doesn't need to be an INTP specific function. This discussion is mostly for INTP thoughts though.
 

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I posted this in the "random thoughts" thread, but this might be a better place for it.

Could it be that, just as Fi doms and Fe doms can complement one another well, that a Fi dom could bring out or help to develop the inferior in an INTP? That Fi could somehow unlock Fe?


I ask because I've recently read about 5000 pages of work by this really genuine, forthright, compelling INFP, and almost immediately thereafter started to have some rather dramatic problems with Fe. There are perhaps more natural hypotheses about why this happened, but it only just occurred to me to ask if this was one of them, if I brought it on myself like that. :H
 

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I posted this in the "random thoughts" thread, but this might be a better place for it.

Could it be that, just as Fi doms and Fe doms can complement one another well, that a Fi dom could bring out or help to develop the inferior in an INTP? That Fi could somehow unlock Fe?


I ask because I've recently read about 5000 pages of work by this really genuine, forthright, compelling INFP, and almost immediately thereafter started to have some rather dramatic problems with Fe. There are perhaps more natural hypotheses about why this happened, but it only just occurred to me to ask if this was one of them, if I brought it on myself like that. :H
5000 PAGES?!

Did you run away from a nice place where the nice people in white gave you happy pills and gave you a shirt that lets you hug yourself?

5000 PAGES?!!!!

I would not read 5000 pages of my own work, let alone some one else's. I can't even think to 5000.
 

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5000 PAGES?!!!!
Dude's written a lot! And I'm double counting most of it, since I went back and reread large chunks. (Hey, understanding Fi is hard sometimes.) But yea, maybe I overdid it a bit.
 
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When my Ne, which is usually head to head with my Ti, takes over. I spurt out random crap for a while and stop making sense. Then my Ti will suddenly realize something's gone wrong and I'll get irrationally angry with myself. Then the Ne kicks in again and I forget all about that anyway.
 
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So this is just a quaint little observation, probably isn't true at all, but I have a theory about the workings of the N and T functions in creating ideas for society.

So,
Ne->Ni->Ti->Te

Ne creates the options, sees the possibilities, etc etc
Ni narrows down the possibilities, which one is most likely correct?
Ti explores that possibility, breaking it down to its constituent parts
Te puts the constituent parts back together in goal-oriented ways in the real world

Dunno, seems like a neat little flow but I might be missing something.
 

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Busy beaver function- y u grow so fast??
Weierstrass function- y u continuous everywhere yet differentiable nowhere??
Dirac delta function- y u not actually function??
Riemann zeta function- y u always hav non trivial roots with real part 1/2??
sin(1/x)- y u so crazy near x = 0??
Pi function- y u no easy to estimate asymptotically??
Bump function- y u so smooth yet so not analytic??
Elliptic integrals- y u not elementary unlike ur nicer circular cousin?
 

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I have recently become quite intrigued by the idea that the functions as described by Jung can really only exist in the order presented as they are in MBTI in a healthy consciousness. Essentially, each function is not just some sort of cognitive tool to its own end, but a part of a coherent whole, a piece of the fabric that is the mind. This is why Ti is paired with Fe, and Ne with Si, for example, in the INTP. To have both judging functions introverted would create a severe lack of objective judgment, (both extraverted a dearth in subjective judgment), while having both thinking or both feeling would create a severe lack in whichever is not represented. The same goes for the perceiving function. Ne is paired with Si because Si provides the subjective lens of sensory input from which Ne extrapolates outwards; Ni is paired with Se for the opposite reason, where the intuition reduces a great deal of sensory input into a few "answers". Thinking of functions as linked in this way also provide an explanation for the differences between so-called J and P types. The "P" type relies on an objective perceiving function and a subjective judging function, and there's a good reason for this. Pe supporting Je would provide simply too much information to judge upon, while Pi supporting Ji would create too narrow of a scope.

Additionally, this is why the INTP's least preferred functions are the ENTJ's functions. Because Ti and Fi fill the same role, the dominant Ti relegates Fi to the lowest parts of the conscious mind (to the extent, as I see it, that it is hardly if ever present). The other main three functions do the same for their cousins of reversed orientation. This is an idea I've had for some time, and it was laid out quite nicely in Dario Nardi's work, which is one of the only theories incorporating shadow functions that I actually support.

That's, in an incoherent jumble, my main ideas about how functions work and interact with each other. I can talk more at length with my ideas, but I'd rather not create a really long TL;DR post unless such is actually desired.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
On Ti. I just needed to re-post, because I think it's a useful insight and it might get lost in the sticky confessions thread.

"I suck at prommaming and that make me nervous, there is the INTP super logical, INTP the computer, INTP the physic genious and there is me, the one who sucks at math,suck at chess (not that bad, but..),suck at programming, Im really scared....

My family is surronded by feeler and I hate that, can say anything, cant discuss anything, its driving me crazy.

Been an intorvert is have been a curse and a bless for me.

Im not an Ennegram 5 :crying:."

"I think the super logical INTP thing is often taken way out of context. I am a five, but I can say that building the frameworks for INTP logic can take many years. Ti means that the thinking is built on experience. If you want to change, then expose yourself to a lot of different experiences in various areas.

Whatever you do, don't beat yourself up like you appear to be doing. It doesn't end there, and it's certainly not so black and white.

I would suggest that you start by being more conscious of what you are expressing, for example, using a spell checker."
 

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I actually had a 'Eureka!' moment about three days ago concerning the nature of certain functions playing a large part in the cognitive processes of the INTP mind while reading an article about 'INTP 5w4'. I could link it if anyone is interested.

I started playing with the idea that some INTP's are better with the objective or subjective, perhaps due to a heightened Si OR Fe. The heightened Si would mean that the INTP is receiving more information from Si to satisfy Ti. Si is a subjective function. Therefore, the INTP is more likely to rely on Ti and Si to accomplish the task of their subjective needs. On the outside, the combination of Ne and Si put into play may seem similar to Se because they already have the information from Si, so they know how to act appropriately to a given situation in the immediate context [even if it doesn't make sense]. Sometimes it might seem similar to Ni, because they can simplify an idea to the core by applying something they already know [Si cuts straight to Ti]. Therefore, the INTP with S dominant begins to blur the line between these objective and subjective. I can't say that this example is as clear, so let's look at the INTP with F dominant.

I've wondered for a long time why my ideas were sometimes not so logical and even more so why I wouldn't be as drawn to scientific ideas as INTP's are expected to do. I am a perfect example of an INTP with F dominant. The fundamental to understand here is that I blur the lines between the subjective and objective. Fe and Ti seem like Fi or Te, because functions are confused. When perceiving Ne, the inferior Fe is also used to judge and confused with Ti, making one internally process feelings or even externally judge facts. I think one would expect an INTP with F dominant to be more eccentric, talking to themselves to work out ideas with that false Te and thinking about cosmic, subjective concepts with that false Fi. If this were the case, then I guess the S dominant would be more reserved and scientific, citing facts and reacting to the immediate context. It's important to remember that fundamentally they are INTP however, so they wouldn't confuse these functions so far as to change their personalities entirely.

Admittedly, these ideas are not perfect. I'm sure all of you are looking over my post and poking holes in my logic. I know because I would do the same thing. Theoretically, I know this because I just confused my Fe with Ti to construct a 'mock' Fi and felt the empathy from it. Although, that could also be false, but before I go recursive I'll just end it here and say that yes, I do in fact rant about functions.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
FTW. The ENTP shadow functions = INTJ.

This seems totally unfair. :unsure:
 

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FTW. The ENTP shadow functions = INTJ.

This seems totally unfair. :unsure:
Why's that? Ni-Te and especially Fi-Se are the things the ENTP could do if they wanted, but don't desire to do. Same with the INTP for the ENTJ. I get thinking, I get intuiting. What I don't get, and don't really care about doing, is using them in that other way, because those functions fill completely different roles, despite using the same tools of judgment and perception.
 

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I know, right? Harry Potter comes close... Amazon says 4,167... that's as closest to 5,000 pages of anything I've read though.

Source: Harry Potter Paperback Box Set (Books 1-7): J. K. Rowling: 9780545162074: Amazon.com: Books

But even that took on/off moments. I didnt' start reading any until 2008.
A little after posting this, I went home and counted pages -- even double counting the ones I read twice during my several month binge, it was only a little over 4000.

Oh well, right order of magnitude, I regret nothing.

(It was everything by David Graeber, by the way. At first I assumed he was an INTP -- how could anyone that smart be anything but? -- but it was clear he had a profoundly different style of thought, and eventually I realized it must be Fi.)
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Needing to understand the lure of the INFJ I started to get answers over here: http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/121583-what-makes-infjs-attractive-other-people-4.html#post3074032

That got me thinking, I wonder what I can explore about the other types. I know this has been done before in other areas, but I thought I'd jot down the relationships that INTPs have to other types too.

I've overlapped these and some people will not agree that this is the right thing to do. Maybe it is, or isn't. See if it sits right.


Table - Interactions with "INTPs"


* This apparently represents MBTI INTPs. That it, socionics INTjs.

 

*Note that the below socionics relationships are refer to socionics personality types. I find that I relate to both the INTp (meant to represent the MBTI INTJ) and the INTj (meant to represent the MBTI INTP) profile. Neither is outstandingly correct to me. It's a combination of both. I could also relate strongly to the socionics relationships for MBTI INTJs (socionics INTps). Another reason for this is that many of the relationships turned out to be the same (eg. Relationship with ENTJ is the same for both the INTP and the INTJ).


s = socionics
m = myers briggs

Personality Relating
to the:

INTP (m)
INTj (s)

MBTI

Socionics
Relationship
Socionics Relationship
Summary
Latest
YouTube
Videos
You-Know Threads
ENTP (m)
ENTp
(s)
Mirror"These are relations of mutual correction. Mirror partners have similar interests and ideas, but a slightly different understanding of the same problems. Each partner can see only half of one problem. Therefore the partners always find what the other partner is thinking interesting. Usually partners quickly realise that they are very like-minded. The area of confidence of one partner is always the area of creativity for the other partner."YouTubeYou're an ENTP When..
ISFJ (m)
ISFp (s)
Activity"These relations are the easiest and quickest to start. Activity partners do not experience any visual difficulties when starting relations which can be surprising to them at the beginning. Partners stimulate each other into activity. Interaction with an Activity partner becomes really satisfying especially if both partners feel a mutual attraction. However, with continuous interaction over a long period comes over-activation. When this happens Activity partners need a short rest from each other, after which they can enjoy a positive interaction once again. This pattern repeats itself giving these relations an oscillating character.YouTubeYou're an ISFJ When..
ESFJ (m)
ESFj (s)
Duality"These relations are the most favourable and comfortable of all inter-type relations providing complete psychological compatibility. Dual partners are like two halves of a whole unit. They usually understand each others intentions without any need to say a word. Dual will naturally protect your weak points and appreciate the strong ones without asking for anything in return. Interaction with your Dual allows you to be yourself without the need to adjust to your partner like in other relations. This often saves both partners a lot of energy which they can use for their own interesting activities."Lolz.YouTubeYou're an ESFJ When..
INTP (m)
INTj (s)
Identical
"These are relations of complete understanding between partners but with an inability to help each other. Identical partners see the world with identical eyes, identically work out received information, come to identical conclusions and have identical problems. Identical partners usually experience sympathy towards each other, trying to support and justify each other. Identical relations have a negative side too. Interaction with an Identical partner may quickly become boring."YouTubeYou're an INTP When..
ENFJ (m)
ENFj (s)
Semi-Duality
"Semi-Duality partners usually have no problems in understanding each other or each other's objectives, at least when these objectives are only on paper. When it comes to fulfilling joint plans, partners often fail to co-operate. The extrovert partner hardly listens to the introvert, concentrating more on the sound of their own voice. However, the introvert partner does not get upset about this and they often seem to find a way to adapt to it. Semi-Duals usually have many topics for conversation and these conversations do not seem to be boring."YouTubeYou're an ENFJ When..
ISTP (m)
ISTj (s)
Comparative"These are relations of deceptive similarity. Comparative partners talk about similar things, have similar interests, obey the norms of politeness and hospitality towards each other but they never really show an interest in each others problems. After a while these relations can become boring and stagnant. When comparative partners are on the same level in a hierarchy, they can coexist quite peacefully. Once one partner becomes superior to the other, they may have serious disagreements and conflicts."YouTubeYou're an ISTP When..
ESTP (m)
ESTp (s)
Supervisor"These relations are also asymmetrical as are relations of Benefit. One partner, called the Supervisor, is always in a more favourable position in respect to the other partner who is known as Supervisee. ESTP is the supervisor for INTP, the Supervisee. Supervision partners often look like good friends. The reason for this is that in these relations both partners can sense their social value: the Supervisor as a "guardian angel", without whom the Supervisee will get into trouble, and the Supervisee as the object of attention."YouTubeYou're an ESTP When..
INFJ (m)
INFp (s)
Benefactor"These relations are asymmetrical. One partner, called the Benefactor, is always in a more favourable position in respect to the other partner who is known as Beneficiary. INFJ is the Benefactor to INTP, who is the Beneficiary. The Beneficiary thinks of the Benefactor as an interesting and meaningful person, usually over-evaluating them in the beginning. The Beneficiary can be impressed and delighted by their partner's behaviour, manners, thoughts and their ability to easily deal with things that the Beneficiary conceives as complicated."YouTubeYou're an INFJ When..
ESFP (m) ESFp (s)Conflicting"These are relations of constantly developing conflict. Conflicting relations have the worst compatibility between partners among all other relations. However, it does not seem to be so obvious, especially in the earlier stages of development. Conflicting partners appear rather attractive, interesting and with impressive abilities."YouTubeYou're an ESFP When.
INTJ (m)
INTp (s)
Quasi-Identical"Quasi-Identical. These are relations of major misunderstanding. A positive aspect of these relations is that Quasi-Identical partners do not underline your weak points and therefore are not viewed as dangerous by each other. Neither do they see each other as equal. Each partner sees the other as less capable than themselves, hence less talented."YouTubeYou're an INTJ When..
ENTJ (m)
ENTj (s)
Contrary"These are relations of an unstable psychological distance. Both partners experience difficulties in establishing and keeping a stable psychological distance between them. The only chance Contrary partners have to get on together well with each other is if they are left alone."YouTubeYou're an ENTJ When.
ISFP (m)
ISFj (s)
Super-Ego"These are relations of mutual respect between partners. Super-Ego partners may think of each other as a distant and slightly mysterious ideal. They often show interest in each other's manners, behaviour and thought composition. Both partners experience a warm feeling towards each other, but for the outsider, these relations may look cold."YouTubeYou're an ISFP When.
ESTJ (m)
ESTj (s)
Illusionary"These are relations of growing laziness. There are no other intertype relations that can deactivate partners so much as Illusionary relations. Illusionary partners find it comfortable being relaxed together, discussing different subjects. What one partner is talking about is always interesting, but in order to understand the partner better the other partner needs to force themselves. This difficulty in making an effort also makes achieving goals together almost impossible. Mutual business or other activity is complicated, because Illusionary partners do not understand the reasons and motives of each other's actions."YouTubePhotos of ESTJs
INFP (m)
INFj (s)
Look-a-like"These are relations between equal partners which can be called acquaintances rather than friends. There are no visual obstacles in the development of these relations, partners can talk easily almost about anything. Look-a-like partners do not feel any danger from the other partner. The strong sides of the partners are different in the such a way that almost any conversations between them always fall into the area of the confidence of only one of the partners. Look-a-like partners also have similar problems which makes them feel rather sympathetic towards each other instead of being critical of each other's vulnerabilities."YouTubeYou're an INFP When..
ENFP (m)
ENFp
Supervisee "These relations are asymmetrical. One partner, called the Supervisor, is always in a more favourable position in respect to the other partner who is known as Supervisee. INTP is the Supervisor for ENFP, the supervisee. Relations of Supervision can give the impression that Supervisor is constantly watching every step of the Supervisee. The latter usually feels this control even if the Supervisor does not say or do anything. The explanation for this is that the Supervisee weak point is defenceless against the Supervisor's strong point. This makes the Supervisee nervous and expect the worse."YouTubeYou're an ENFP When..
ISTJ (m)
ISTp (s)
Beneficiary"The Benefactor, is always in a more favourable position in respect to the other partner who is known as Beneficiary. INTPs are the Benefactor to ISTJ, the Beneficiary. The Beneficiary thinks of the Benefactor as an interesting and meaningful person, usually over-evaluating them in the beginning. The Beneficiary can be impressed by the Benefactor's ability to easily deal with things that the Beneficiary conceives as complicated."YouTubeYou're an ISTJ When..


Socionics Interface Relation Chart
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Why's that? Ni-Te and especially Fi-Se are the things the ENTP could do if they wanted, but don't desire to do. Same with the INTP for the ENTJ. I get thinking, I get intuiting. What I don't get, and don't really care about doing, is using them in that other way, because those functions fill completely different roles, despite using the same tools of judgment and perception.
Yes. I was looking at it from my own terms and thinking, those are both pretty cool personalities (all things considered). Wouldn't mind trying either of them on for a while.
 

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Needing to understand the lure of the INFJ I started to get answers over here: http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/121583-what-makes-infjs-attractive-other-people-4.html#post3074032That got me thinking, I wonder what I can explore about the other types. I know this has been done before in other areas, but I thought I'd jot down the relationships that INTPs have to other types too.Interactions with INTPs
Personality Relating to the INTPSocionics RelationshipSocionics RelationshipSummaryLatestYouTubeVideosYou-Know Threads
ENTP
Ne
Ti
Fe
Si
Contrary"These are relations of an unstable psychological distance. Both partners experience difficulties in establishing and keeping a stable psychological distance between them. The only chance Contrary partners have to get on together well with each other is if they are left alone."YouTubeYou're an ENTP When..
ISFP
Fi
De
Ni
Te
Super-Ego"These are relations of mutual respect between partners. Super-Ego partners may think of each other as a distant and slightly mysterious ideal. They often show interest in each other's manners, behaviour and thought composition. Both partners experience a warm feeling towards each other, but for the outsider, these relations may look cold."YouTubeYou're an ISFP When..
ESFJ
Fe
Si
Ne
Ti
Conflicting"These are relations of constantly developing conflict. Conflicting relations have the worst compatibility between partners among all other relations. However, it does not seem to be so obvious, especially in the earlier stages of development. Conflicting partners appear rather attractive, interesting and with impressive abilities."YouTubeYou're an ESFJ When..
INTJ
Ni
Te
Fi
Se
Quasi-Identical"These are relations of major misunderstanding. A positive aspect of these relations is that Quasi-Identical partners do not underline your weak points and therefore are not viewed as dangerous by each other. Neither do they see each other as equal. Each partner sees the other as less capable than themselves, hence less talented."YouTubeYou're an INTJ When..
ENFJ
Fe
Ni
Se
Ti
Supervisor"These relations are also asymmetrical as are relations of Benefit. One partner, called the Supervisor, is always in a more favourable position in respect to the other partner who is known as Supervisee. ENFJ is the supervisor for INTP, the Supervisee. Supervision partners often look like good friends. The reason for this is that in these relations both partners can sense their social value: the Supervisor as a "guardian angel", without whom the Supervisee will get into trouble, and the Supervisee as the object of attention."YouTubeYou're an ENFJ When..
ISTJ
Si
Te
Fi
Ne
Benefactor"ISTJ is the Benefactor and INTP is the Beneficiary. The Benefactor, is always in a more favourable position in respect to the other partner who is known as Beneficiary. The Beneficiary thinks of the Benefactor as an interesting and meaningful person, usually over-evaluating them in the beginning. The Beneficiary can be impressed by the Benefactor's ability to easily deal with things that the Beneficiary conceives as complicated."YouTubeYou're an ISTJ When..
ESTP
Se
Ti
Fe
Ni
Semi-Duality"Semi-Duality partners usually have no problems in understanding each other or each other's objectives, at least when these objectives are only on paper. When it comes to fulfilling joint plans, partners often fail to co-operate. The extrovert partner hardly listens to the introvert, concentrating more on the sound of their own voice. However, the introvert partner does not get upset about this and they often seem to find a way to adapt to it. Semi-Duals usually have many topics for conversation and these conversations do not seem to be boring."YouTubeYou're an ESTP When..
INFP
Fi
Ne
Si
Te
Comparative"These are relations of deceptive similarity. Comparative partners talk about similar things, have similar interests, obey the norms of politeness and hospitality towards each other but they never really show an interest in each others problems. After a while these relations can become boring and stagnant. When comparative partners are on the same level in a hierarchy, they can coexist quite peacefully. Once one partner becomes superior to the other, they may have serious disagreements and conflicts."YouTubeYou're an INFP When..
ESFP
Se
Fi
Te
Ni
Duality"These relations are the most favourable and comfortable of all inter-type relations providing complete psychological compatibility. Dual partners are like two halves of a whole unit. They usually understand each others intentions without any need to say a word. Dual will naturally protect your weak points and appreciate the strong ones without asking for anything in return. Interaction with your Dual allows you to be yourself without the need to adjust to your partner like in other relations. This often saves both partners a lot of energy which they can use for their own interesting activities."YouTubeYou're an ESFP When..
INTP
Ti
Ne
Si
Fe
Identical"These are relations of complete understanding between partners but with an inability to help each other. Identical partners see the world with identical eyes, identically work out received information, come to identical conclusions and have identical problems. Identical partners usually experience sympathy towards each other, trying to support and justify each other. Identical relations have a negative side too. Interaction with an Identical partner may quickly become boring."YouTubeYou're an INTP When..
ENTJ
Te
Ni
Se
Fi
Mirror"These are relations of mutual correction. Mirror partners have similar interests and ideas, but a slightly different understanding of the same problems. Each partner can see only half of one problem. Therefore the partners always find what the other partner is thinking interesting. Usually partners quickly realise that they are very like-minded. The area of confidence of one partner is always the area of creativity for the other partner."YouTubeYou're an ENTJ When..
ISFJ
Si
Fe
Ti
Ne
Activity"These relations are the easiest and quickest to start. Activity partners do not experience any visual difficulties when starting relations which can be surprising to them at the beginning. Partners stimulate each other into activity. Interaction with an Activity partner becomes really satisfying especially if both partners feel a mutual attraction. However, with continuous interaction over a long period comes over-activation. When this happens Activity partners need a short rest from each other, after which they can enjoy a positive interaction once again. This pattern repeats itself giving these relations an oscillating character.YouTubeYou're an ISTJ When..
ESTJ
Te
Si
Ne
Fi
SuperviseeINTP is the supervisor of ESTJ, the Supervisee. "These relations are asymmetrical. One partner, called the Supervisor, is always in a more favourable position in respect to the other partner who is known as Supervisee. Relations of Supervision can give the impression that Supervisor is constantly watching every step of the Supervisee. The latter usually feels this control even if the Supervisor does not say or do anything. The explanation for this is that the Supervisee weak point is defenceless against the Supervisor's strong point. This makes the Supervisee nervous and expect the worse."YouTubeYou're an ENTP When..
INFJ
Ni
Fe
Ti
Se
Benefactor"These relations are asymmetrical. One partner, called the Benefactor, is always in a more favourable position in respect to the other partner who is known as Beneficiary. INTP is the Benefactor to INFJ, who is the Beneficiary. The Beneficiary thinks of the Benefactor as an interesting and meaningful person, usually over-evaluating them in the beginning. The Beneficiary can be impressed and delighted by their partner's behaviour, manners, thoughts and their ability to easily deal with things that the Beneficiary conceives as complicated."YouTubeYou're an INFJ When..
ENFP
Ne
Fi
Te
Si
Illusionary"These are relations of growing laziness. There are no other intertype relations that can deactivate partners so much as Illusionary relations. Illusionary partners find it comfortable being relaxed together, discussing different subjects. What one partner is talking about is always interesting, but in order to understand the partner better the other partner needs to force themselves. This difficulty in making an effort also makes achieving goals together almost impossible. Mutual business or other activity is complicated, because Illusionary partners do not understand the reasons and motives of each other's actions."YouTubeYou're an ENFP When..
ISTP
Ti
Se
Ni
Fe
Look-a-like"These are relations between equal partners which can be called acquaintances rather than friends. There are no visual obstacles in the development of these relations, partners can talk easily almost about anything. Look-a-like partners do not feel any danger from the other partner. The strong sides of the partners are different in the such a way that almost any conversations between them always fall into the area of the confidence of only one of the partners. Look-a-like partners also have similar problems which makes them feel rather sympathetic towards each other instead of being critical of each other's vulnerabilities."YouTubeYou're an ISTP When..
Something important to note is that in Socionics the INTP = INTj, not the INTp. This is because the p/j in socionics denotes whether the person has a "rational (j) function first or an "irrational" (p) function first. So for introverted types, you flip all of the j's and p's. Hence, if you look at the relations of benefit, the INTP is the beneficiary, and the INFJ the benefactor (You'll see it written as INFp --> INTj). Definitely keep that in mind.

[url]http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/82-Benefit-relations


[/URL]It does seem a bit backward, but the rings do indeed say that ENTp is benefactor to the ENFj, and the INFp is the benefactor to the INTj. But this is the case by way of function order.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Something important to note is that in Socionics the INTP = INTj, not the INTp. This is because the p/j in socionics denotes whether the person has a "rational (j) function first or an "irrational" (p) function first. So for introverted types, you flip all of the j's and p's. Hence, if you look at the relations of benefit, the INTP is the beneficiary, and the INFJ the benefactor (You'll see it written as INFp --> INTj). Definitely keep that in mind.

Socionics - the16types.info - Benefit relations

It does seem a bit backward, but the rings do indeed say that ENTp is benefactor to the ENFj, and the INFp is the benefactor to the INTj. But this is the case by way of function order.

Thanks. I noted and ignored it, because I'm not convinced. Still. I know thems the rules, so I changed it to what I think is right by them. Please let me know if you see anything else that isn't right.
 

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Thanks. I noted and ignored it, because I'm not convinced. Still. I know thems the rules, so I changed it to what I think is right by them. Please let me know if you see anything else that isn't right.
The only time you switch j/p is for introverts, by the way. An ENTP is still an ENTp, but an INTP is an INTj. That's because INTP has the judging function Ti first, while the ENTP has the perceiving function Ne first, so it's still denoted as a "p" type.

It is kinda confusing and stupid, but only because we're used to MBTI. I actually think Socionics is more fleshed out as a theory and has better analysis, and that its ways of denoting types and their functions is actually more consistent with its analysis, but I agree it is definitely much harder to approach.
 
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It is kinda confusing and stupid, but only because we're used to MBTI. I actually think Socionics is more fleshed out as a theory and has better analysis, and that its ways of denoting types and their functions is actually more consistent with its analysis, but I agree it is definitely much harder to approach.
I'm a bit skeptical of this honestly. There are plenty of people working in the MBTI tradition to "flesh it out," and of the stuff I've seen Socionics do that they don't, I'm somewhat skeptical of its value. "Relations of Benefit?" Surely that depends more on communication skills and respect than on type, no? I was always concerned that Socionics was working too hard to make all the people disappear.

(Agreed about the j/p thing though. That annoyed me, learning MBTI.)
 
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