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Discussion Starter #1
Which function is responsible for noticing similarities between forms? An example would be seeing a grouping of metal rods that are bendy and saying "it looks like spaghetti." Or looking at a cloud and saying "it looks like an angel"
 

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Hmm, I think it's the thought process of how once arrives at "it looks like spaghetti" that might determine the function, and even then, I am not sure if a sole function is responsible for something like this.
 

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Ne

the op's examples are the kind of observations children make when they are young and learning to classify things...part of process is noticing the similarities between disparate things...adults do this far less cuz they've stopped looking at the world with a child's eyes

Ne is often associated with genius...genius is often characterized as having a childlike curiosity...children have been called little geniuses for their curiosity and capacity to learn

so, in this respect, Ne can be thought of as a child's function that some adults--those who retain this childlike quality--happen to retain
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ne

the op's examples are the kind of observations children make when they are young and learning to classify things...part of process is noticing the similarities between disparate things...adults do this far less cuz they've stopped looking at the world with a child's eyes

Ne is often associated with genius...genius is often characterized as having a childlike curiosity...children have been called little geniuses for their curiosity and capacity to learn

in this respect, Ne can be thought of as a child's function that some adults--those who retain this childlike quality and in this way tend to genius--retain
Why do Ne descriptions focus so heavily on possibilities than this side of Ne? Makes it near impossible to classify what I'm observing because Ne descriptions that focus on possibilities make it seem like high Ne is equivalent to spastically shooting out possibilities all over the place...

The behavior that I wrote about would be much easier to notice imo.
 

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Why do Ne descriptions focus so heavily on possibilities than this side of Ne? Makes it near impossible to classify what I'm observing because Ne descriptions that focus on possibilities make it seem like high Ne is equivalent to spastically shooting out possibilities all over the place...

The behavior that I wrote about would be much easier to notice imo.
maybe cuz mbti is aimed at an adult audience that has stopped making simple childlike observations

it's more "adult" to use words like "abstract", "unconscious", and "possibilities"

people also have this belief that the more complex and abstract something sounds, the more important and profound it must be...but being able to see the simple in the complex, to make the abstract concrete is more difficult than using abstract, complex words


but, to be fair, Ne also connects ideas which are not tangible like rods and clouds...so the descriptions try to capture the intangible
 

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Ni I think, it notices a similar framework? Whereas Si does the same but with more of a surface appearance. Like similar weather triggering a memory and stuff like that
 

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maybe cuz mbti is aimed at an adult audience that has stopped making simple childlike observations

it's more "adult" to use words like "abstract", "unconscious", and "possibilities"

people also have this belief that the more complex and abstract something sounds, the more important and profound it must be...but being able to see the simple in the complex, to make the abstract concrete is more difficult than using abstract, complex words


but, to be fair, Ne also connects ideas which are not tangible like rods and clouds...so the descriptions try to capture the intangible
I like your style, taking Cormac McCarthy to another level.

Anyway, I agree with the basis of what you're saying, which when studying the cognitive functions, can make Ne seem like something so abstract that beams of energy stream into the brain triggering ideas constantly, repeatedly, throughout the day, as if a Ne user has infinite ideas--as if a Ne user wakes up and ideas begin to topple over the individual, one after another, where the individual forgets them as they progress throughout the day because the amount is so overwhelming.

But, the reality of Ne is more so constantly associating what's being said, or what's being seen, to something else, connecting seemingly disparate ideas or contexts of the "reality" of the moment. A Ne user can come across as random and offbeat, because they seemingly make odd transitions or connections, which also attributes to their quick wit, because you can say anything random and out of context to a heavy Ne user and they'll quickly associate the words or ideas instantly and have an almost immediate response.

For me personally, it's nearly impossible for me to have the typical "everyday", non-stimulating conversations without some word or phrase triggering me in another direction, my mind connecting what was said to something so completely out of place and different from the topic, such as lyrics to a song, movie quotes, instantly paraphrasing or twisting what's being said into a different context (maybe due to the propensity for Ne users to avoid boredom at all costs, with either that option to stimulate themselves or else mentally fading from the conversation). Or another example, I'll hear a loud plane and immediately start running and yelling, "The Germans are coming! Take cover!" However, when it comes to ideas for Ne, ideas play off ideas--they don't continuously come out of thin air--and that's when the possibilites branch out; so if you bring up an idea to a Ne user, then you'll see a stream of possiblities branch out where one idea can lead to another and another and so on, as long as the Ne user is mentally stimulated, which can go on for a while.

Back on to the original post, it's certainly Ne. A lot of what Ne users see is not what a specific object or idea is, but what the object or idea could be. Problem that comes with it, heavy Ne is never satisfied, as something can always be added to improve the moment, a possibility always apparent to the Ne mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I like your style, taking Cormac McCarthy to another level.

Anyway, I agree with the basis of what you're saying, which when studying the cognitive functions, can make Ne seem like something so abstract that beams of energy stream into the brain triggering ideas constantly, repeatedly, throughout the day, as if a Ne user has infinite ideas--as if a Ne user wakes up and ideas begin to topple over the individual, one after another, where the individual forgets them as they progress throughout the day because the amount is so overwhelming.

But, the reality of Ne is more so constantly associating what's being said, or what's being seen, to something else, connecting seemingly disparate ideas or contexts of the "reality" of the moment. A Ne user can come across as random and offbeat, because they seemingly make odd transitions or connections, which also attributes to their quick wit, because you can say anything random and out of context to a heavy Ne user and they'll quickly associate the words or ideas instantly and have an almost immediate response.

For me personally, it's nearly impossible for me to have the typical "everyday", non-stimulating conversations without some word or phrase triggering me in another direction, my mind connecting what was said to something so completely out of place and different from the topic, such as lyrics to a song, movie quotes, instantly paraphrasing or twisting what's being said into a different context (maybe due to the propensity for Ne users to avoid boredom at all costs, with either that option to stimulate themselves or else mentally fading from the conversation). Or another example, I'll hear a loud plane and immediately start running and yelling, "The Germans are coming! Take cover!" However, when it comes to ideas for Ne, ideas play off ideas--they don't continuously come out of thin air--and that's when the possibilites branch out; so if you bring up an idea to a Ne user, then you'll see a stream of possiblities branch out where one idea can lead to another and another and so on, as long as the Ne user is mentally stimulated, which can go on for a while.

Back on to the original post, it's certainly Ne. A lot of what Ne users see is not what a specific object or idea is, but what the object or idea could be. Problem that comes with it, heavy Ne is never satisfied, as something can always be added to improve the moment, a possibility always apparent to the Ne mind.
This is exactly what I've been looking for. This definitely ensures I'm an Ne user lol. I do this ALL the time. Specifically my humor is centered around interpreting a word in a different way and then responding as if that different way were actually what we were talking about.

I assume Ne has trouble with internal idea generation? It needs inspiration much more than Ni?
 

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Ne-Si axis, whichever way around, we all do it no doubt, but yeah that's how they roll.

Phrases that contain the word "like" in that context always suggest Ne-Si or Si-Ne to me, because it always used to compare, for similes etc.

I've noticed this pattern anyway.

ISTJs are #1 for it.
Simile gods.


That cloud looks like an angel.. Si-Ne.
That cloud is an angel.. Ni-Se.

Those rods look like spaghetti.. Si-Ne.
Those rods are spaghetti.. Ni-Se.


Both of the above can simply be the beginnings of a much more complicated and deeper thought process that might involve all of the functions.


Si-Ne or Ne-Si
That cloud is like an angel.. so delicate, those would be it's wings (KFC for dinner?).. "Angel, you're bulletproof".. "We're lifted up by angels".. it's such a brilliant white, pure, angels are pure.
*insert song later on about being lifted up by a bulletproof pure white angel while eating KFC*
..is the song about society?..is the song about a breakup?..is the song about advocating critical thinking?..is the song about making something more effective?
Who knows.

The song thing is just to reference that the Ne-Si user, whichever way around, will use these observations as a reference point in the future.


Ni-Se or Se-Ni
That cloud is an angel, high above us keeping us safe.
Or is it? If it's above us, perhaps it commands more respect than us - has it proven itself to be more authoritative? Doubt it. Who decides authority?
Is it just there, ala the angel in the sky, omnipresent?

*insert the idea of an angel as an authoritative figure slipping into the subconscious as part of an overall worldview/understanding*

Perhaps in the Ni-Se users dreams, the angel slips it's way in as a character of some sort - maybe years later, that same angel from the clouds is dragged to the ground and burnt to cinders - perhaps this is interpreted as an imminent falling of some kind of authoritative figure.

Maybe it's about the user themselves who is a manager somewhere and is picking up on things from their underlings. Etc etc you get the gist.


I'm fully aware that Si-Ne would likely begin the process via a subjective impression "activating" Ne.

Also fully aware Se-Ni would probably begin with how big the cloud is, or how white it is, etc etc, before shifting to where I went.
 

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Ne-Si axis, whichever way around, we all do it no doubt, but yeah that's how they roll.

Phrases that contain the word "like" in that context always suggest Ne-Si or Si-Ne to me, because it always used to compare, for similes etc.

I've noticed this pattern anyway.

ISTJs are #1 for it.
Simile gods.


That cloud looks like an angel.. Si-Ne.
That cloud is an angel.. Ni-Se.

Those rods look like spaghetti.. Si-Ne.
Those rods are spaghetti.. Ni-Se.


Both of the above can simply be the beginnings of a much more complicated and deeper thought process that might involve all of the functions.


Si-Ne or Ne-Si
That cloud is like an angel.. so delicate, those would be it's wings (KFC for dinner?).. "Angel, you're bulletproof".. "We're lifted up by angels".. it's such a brilliant white, pure, angels are pure.
*insert song later on about being lifted up by a bulletproof pure white angel while eating KFC*
..is the song about society?..is the song about a breakup?..is the song about advocating critical thinking?..is the song about making something more effective?
Who knows.

The song thing is just to reference that the Ne-Si user, whichever way around, will use these observations as a reference point in the future.


Ni-Se or Se-Ni
That cloud is an angel, high above us keeping us safe.
Or is it? If it's above us, perhaps it commands more respect than us - has it proven itself to be more authoritative? Doubt it. Who decides authority?
Is it just there, ala the angel in the sky, omnipresent?

*insert the idea of an angel as an authoritative figure slipping into the subconscious as part of an overall worldview/understanding*

Perhaps in the Ni-Se users dreams, the angel slips it's way in as a character of some sort - maybe years later, that same angel from the clouds is dragged to the ground and burnt to cinders - perhaps this is interpreted as an imminent falling of some kind of authoritative figure.

Maybe it's about the user themselves who is a manager somewhere and is picking up on things from their underlings. Etc etc you get the gist.


I'm fully aware that Si-Ne would likely begin the process via a subjective impression "activating" Ne.

Also fully aware Se-Ni would probably begin with how big the cloud is, or how white it is, etc etc, before shifting to where I went.
Just wanted to say, I really loved how you phrased this.
 
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Ne-Si axis, whichever way around, we all do it no doubt, but yeah that's how they roll.

Phrases that contain the word "like" in that context always suggest Ne-Si or Si-Ne to me, because it always used to compare, for similes etc.

I've noticed this pattern anyway.

ISTJs are #1 for it.
Simile gods.


That cloud looks like an angel.. Si-Ne.
That cloud is an angel.. Ni-Se.

Those rods look like spaghetti.. Si-Ne.
Those rods are spaghetti.. Ni-Se.


Both of the above can simply be the beginnings of a much more complicated and deeper thought process that might involve all of the functions.


Si-Ne or Ne-Si
That cloud is like an angel.. so delicate, those would be it's wings (KFC for dinner?).. "Angel, you're bulletproof".. "We're lifted up by angels".. it's such a brilliant white, pure, angels are pure.
*insert song later on about being lifted up by a bulletproof pure white angel while eating KFC*
..is the song about society?..is the song about a breakup?..is the song about advocating critical thinking?..is the song about making something more effective?
Who knows.

The song thing is just to reference that the Ne-Si user, whichever way around, will use these observations as a reference point in the future.


Ni-Se or Se-Ni
That cloud is an angel, high above us keeping us safe.
Or is it? If it's above us, perhaps it commands more respect than us - has it proven itself to be more authoritative? Doubt it. Who decides authority?
Is it just there, ala the angel in the sky, omnipresent?

*insert the idea of an angel as an authoritative figure slipping into the subconscious as part of an overall worldview/understanding*

Perhaps in the Ni-Se users dreams, the angel slips it's way in as a character of some sort - maybe years later, that same angel from the clouds is dragged to the ground and burnt to cinders - perhaps this is interpreted as an imminent falling of some kind of authoritative figure.

Maybe it's about the user themselves who is a manager somewhere and is picking up on things from their underlings. Etc etc you get the gist.


I'm fully aware that Si-Ne would likely begin the process via a subjective impression "activating" Ne.

Also fully aware Se-Ni would probably begin with how big the cloud is, or how white it is, etc etc, before shifting to where I went.


Hmm. I relate to both of these. At times I’m like the Ne user and at times I’m like the Ni user.

Being a dominant intuitive (specifically Ni) is it possible for Ne thoughts to pop up a lot as sort of an overlap?
 

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Hmm. I relate to both of these. At times I’m like the Ne user and at times I’m like the Ni user.

Being a dominant intuitive (specifically Ni) is it possible for Ne thoughts to pop up a lot as sort of an overlap?
We all use all of the functions, we should all relate to all of that in some fashion.

What's a more natural preference?
Where does your mind tend to go, usually?
 

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Hmm. I relate to both of these. At times I’m like the Ne user and at times I’m like the Ni user.

Being a dominant intuitive (specifically Ni) is it possible for Ne thoughts to pop up a lot as sort of an overlap?
Maybe it's possible, because I relate to both quite strongly as well, as a Ne user. But that would also imply Turi has accurately depicted the Ne/Si and Ni/Se axes.

We should start an ask @Turi thread. He's a funny dude, he's very much into personality theory, seems quite knowledgeable, is kind of a fiery sparkplug, but like a lot of us, can't figure out his type. It would be a fantastic thread, haha.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Maybe it's possible, because I relate to both quite strongly as well, as a Ne user. But that would also imply Turi has accurately depicted the Ne/Si and Ni/Se axes.

We should start an ask @Turi thread. He's a funny dude, he's very much into personality theory, seems quite knowledgeable, is kind of a fiery sparkplug, but like a lot of us, can't figure out his type. It would be a fantastic thread, haha.
We should definitely start one to clarify this, especially with people relating to both.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Ne-Si axis, whichever way around, we all do it no doubt, but yeah that's how they roll.

Phrases that contain the word "like" in that context always suggest Ne-Si or Si-Ne to me, because it always used to compare, for similes etc.

I've noticed this pattern anyway.

ISTJs are #1 for it.
Simile gods.


That cloud looks like an angel.. Si-Ne.
That cloud is an angel.. Ni-Se.

Those rods look like spaghetti.. Si-Ne.
Those rods are spaghetti.. Ni-Se.


Both of the above can simply be the beginnings of a much more complicated and deeper thought process that might involve all of the functions.


Si-Ne or Ne-Si
That cloud is like an angel.. so delicate, those would be it's wings (KFC for dinner?).. "Angel, you're bulletproof".. "We're lifted up by angels".. it's such a brilliant white, pure, angels are pure.
*insert song later on about being lifted up by a bulletproof pure white angel while eating KFC*
..is the song about society?..is the song about a breakup?..is the song about advocating critical thinking?..is the song about making something more effective?
Who knows.

The song thing is just to reference that the Ne-Si user, whichever way around, will use these observations as a reference point in the future.


Ni-Se or Se-Ni
That cloud is an angel, high above us keeping us safe.
Or is it? If it's above us, perhaps it commands more respect than us - has it proven itself to be more authoritative? Doubt it. Who decides authority?
Is it just there, ala the angel in the sky, omnipresent?

*insert the idea of an angel as an authoritative figure slipping into the subconscious as part of an overall worldview/understanding*

Perhaps in the Ni-Se users dreams, the angel slips it's way in as a character of some sort - maybe years later, that same angel from the clouds is dragged to the ground and burnt to cinders - perhaps this is interpreted as an imminent falling of some kind of authoritative figure.

Maybe it's about the user themselves who is a manager somewhere and is picking up on things from their underlings. Etc etc you get the gist.


I'm fully aware that Si-Ne would likely begin the process via a subjective impression "activating" Ne.

Also fully aware Se-Ni would probably begin with how big the cloud is, or how white it is, etc etc, before shifting to where I went.
What would be the difference in similes between Ne-Si vs Si-Ne? I.e. something like isfj vs entp
 
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