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This interesting, insightful article talks about how cognitive functions and MBTI types can be misdiagnosed as learning disabilities, and consequently lead to underachievement or insecurities in children.

Link: http://typeindepth.com/2014/04/type-and-exceptional-learners/

Here is a slightly blurry image from the article which shows how what's perceived as an issue is interpreted differently in (A) giftedness and (B) in type.




Another slightly blurry image from another awesome article (http://typeindepth.com/2013/11/a-place-for-all-types-of-learners/ ) shows the percentage of kids in a particular school identified as at-risk and drop outs compared to the percentage of local teachers and Canadian population. (Author is a Canadian educator).

The highest drop out rates in this school (compared to national population) were that of ESTPs and ISTPs, and ExxPs in general. The highest at-risk rates were that of ExxPs followed by INTPs.






In what way was your natural behavior as a student rewarded or considered flawed based on what people (adults and other students) around you valued? How much of that feedback/labeling helped you change your behavior in a good way? What made you feel insecure? What did you see as pointless? Please share your experiences.

What would you do to change the education system?
 

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Reminds me of an ESFP woman I dated who is fairly intelligent, but many people assume she is stupid because she says and does stereotypically SP things. She also had middling grades in school.

While the sample sizes of those three left columns are rather small, the staggering proportion of perceivers among at-risk students and drop-outs suggests a major problem with how schools handle perceiving types. I do notice that the one functional position with no negative associations on that chart is F, and at least among the introverts feelers tend to fare a little better than thinkers. This does not hold for the extroverts, however.
 

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Thank you for this data. At some point I got in an argument with someone after I made a statement along these lines. They said that I was being typist and making value judgments based on type alone. I'm glad to see some actual data on this that confirms the claims I've been hearing here and there for the last few years.
 

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maybe some types are perceived as more intelligent, because they fit better to the stereotypes for intelligent People. for example i know an ENTP and an INTJ who are both rather averagely intelligent, however they are both perceived as very smart.
on the other Hand i know an ISFJ, who is really smart but most People seem to think of her as Kind of a 1950s housewife.
and i know a pretty smart ISFP, who is intelectually also in my opinion underestimated by most People.
 

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Definitely the above. It's all part of learning styles. Si-users have brains that reward memorization and practice until they achieve mastery of something. This means that ISXJs are often very good students. On the other hand, they tend to dislike experimentation and skipping steps in their thought processes, which can make them seem less intelligent sometimes.

ESTP's on the other hand have brains that work best when they're moving around and when they're experimenting with the world around them. If they sit still and have to read a book, their brains just stop working. That's not how they're set up. I know some brilliant ESXPs that have stopped school because it doesn't fit with how they take in and use information. Some ESFPs even end up thinking they're dumb, just because they school system has failed them.

There's a slow movement towards more differentiated schooling, but it's slow and lots of people are learning the exact wrong lessons. Some people are thinking about the ESTPs that are having trouble and are proposing that we should change school to a point where only ESTPs are serviced. I think we need a new system where there's more room for students to choose their own way of learning. We're a way away from that though.
 

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I'm an ISTP with severe learning disabilities who ended up dropping out of school twice. Once in high school and once as an adult trying to get my high school. The latter experience was great. You worked at your own pace, by yourself, and utilized the teachers when you were stuck. I finished a year of English, Biology, Computers and History in about two months.

Problem is, I couldn't complete the math portion and no one in the school understood how to help me because my problems are not with comprehending the material, they are with operational manipulation and visual perception. I had to convince the school's chairman that I belonged in academic math by demonstrating my knowledge of the subject matter (the alternate course, graduate math, was the equivalent of putting me back in Kindergarten), but we came to a complete stand still when I tried to take the tests and solve the equations.

In the end I felt like I was never going to succeed and I was under significant pressure from my work, so I just quit.
 

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Comments my teachers made about me to my mom / things I struggled with

1. Careless/Inattentive
2. Smart but carefree
3. Reckless and undedicated
4. Can be a high achiever, doesn't want to be
5. Terrible at math because I just didn't see the point
6. Hated overly theoretical subjects and got bored and fidgety
7. Smart enough to just get by and get good enough grades
8. Hyper-focused on a few subjects that caught my interest
9. Terrible handwriting
10. Socially awkward (that happened because I was raised by an introvert where I wasn't socialized with other kids much).

That's just some of the problems I had.

I learn by doing. School says you can't do, just sit and read. Like wtf? Would you ask a fish to climb a tree?
I managed to stay in school and even enjoyed it, but I never cared for it and to this day I cannot understand why I was forced to waste 12-13+ years of my life doing academics when I could have been taught how to do so many different things that I was better at.

The key is in figuring out what the kid wants and then fitting the kid into his role in society ... not by society dictating what the kid should know.

This is why I'm in favor of a complete and utter de-construction of our schooling system. I mean, I suppose I don't care if society does this by and large, but instead of making my kid a student and cog to fit in someone else's machine, initially I'll encourage my kid to become someone who can create the machine .. Or whatever the kid shows promise in.

No one needs to go to school to earn a living. We need to re-shape how we think why we have schools. If schools are there to teach you basic language and math skills then great. If schools are there to help you get noticed/involved in sports, then great. If schools can teach you how to be a great musician, then great.

I don't know the figures, but I'm willing to bet even those who go to colleges probably only used something like 20-30% of the knowledge they gained .. and I believe that even in colleges you basically just repeat the bullshit you learned in school for at least the first few years. The only useful thing that most people gain out of college is a degree which we have justified by making it a key to unlock certain (and not even all) career choices.

Unless it's a degree or qualification that relies exclusively on the information that can be generalized, then it's useful, but on all honesty most of the times the "education" is so generic and diluted that it might as well not even exist and still probably won't put a damper on an individual's growth. I really can't remember the last time someone debated the merits of Shakespeare outside of a retarded English class.

Of course, as an ESTP I'm pretty sure given the number of ESTP dropouts, why I'm so much more passionate about this. School was a waste. I did get an MBA by the time I was only 23, but I could have done all of the jobs that MBA "unlocked" for me simply by going to work without ANY knowledge that I ever gained. The real decision makers and idea people are the ones that need to be smart. But they hire smart people and thing they'll be "doers" which doesn't always work out.

I think that a lot of people only want to rationalize to themselves that their education matter ... I do believe without justification that pretty sure a majority of people just quietly accept the fact that they wasted their time in college and probably wish that if they could get a chance to do it again they would do it differently.

Though I admit that this is likely more true for some MBTI types than others.

Most people I talk to go through a period of having their dreams SQUASHED soon as they leave college and then they have to rebuild themselves ... Unless they're lucky enough to get a job straight away.

BTW. I'm willing to bet any money that if you just gave 30-100k (the amount of the average debt) to anyone straight out of high school, the percentage of individuals who would succeed if you just sent them to college would go up. What I'm talking about is that the money is being loaned out anyways ... why the fuck only restrict that money to college?

Giving money to a total stranger and putting it in a system based on pure trust is very much the same as trusting your own child, right? Why not for businesses? It's not like all 18 year olds are guaranteed to have an income straight outta college anyways.
 
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