[Wake]

Seems to me that women always seem to be 1w2's and men are 1w9's, but uncertain the complete reasoning why its true. Perhaps the w2's have a stronger feeling side, and don't banish it and along with bias from their lives. This makes w2's true to its name The Advocate as w9's are the idealist.

Theres alot more to be said about this topic, but this damned brains too lazy! What are your thoughts on gender in the 1 type?

 

[Frannyy]

well, I am 1w9...

 

[Tommy]

Maybe it is because men only want their beer and sports and not bother anyone xD Thus the harmonic side.

 

[psycho]

i'm 1w2, and i really think I'm a man:wink:

 

[jbking]

Well...

I'm another 1w2 man, so I guess that stereotype doesn't hold that well. I can understand that can be the perception of a Type 2 being a Motherly role in a sense but this doesn't mean it is exclusively for those without a Y chromosome. At the same time, I have had tests that suggested that mentally I'm wired more like a woman than a man in some ways. It was in an old Reader's Digest but I can't remember which issue had the test, unfortunately.

 

[KrystRay]

lol. I'm a 1w2 but I really haven't looked into what it means.... Any explaination? And I find that my personality is very masculine, BTW. I mean, yeah, I do have a constant struggle to still be feminine (like, do I want to be a stay at home mom when I have children, or do I want a corporate job so that I can take over the world?) Questions like those really tear me apart! Again, anyone have any ideas?

 

[jbking]

For more on the "Advocate"....

A couple of explanations of a 1w2:

One With A Two Wing: The Advocate

Healthy

People who are 1w2s put their moral ideals and desire to help others into a powerful reform package. They are persuasive and enlist multitudes of others to help their good causes.


Average

These outgoing people are also good at politics, but they are also very critical and irritable when they are frustrated.


Unhealthy

Unhealthy 1w2s are intolerant, condescending, and manipulative. They deceive themselves about their motives and are self-righteous when these motives are questioned. They are hypocrites. These people may have physical problems, compulsive habits, or nervous breakdowns because they are so anxious about their self-contradictions.

Source: StateMaster - Encyclopedia: One (Enneagram)

The One with a Two-wing:
“The Advocate”

The traits of the One and those of the Two support each other in many ways. Both the One and the Two strive to comply with the rules–to be “good” according to their internalized values. Ones want to be righteous and balanced, Twos want to be selfless and all-loving. On the other hand, Ones are rational and impersonal, while Twos are emotional and involved with people. Although One is the basic personality type, there is a noticeable degree of warmth as well as an interpersonal focus in people of this subtype, compensating for the One’s emotional control. The Two-wing also makes them more fiery and action-oriented than Ones with a Nine-wing. Ones with a Two-wing want to roll up their sleeves and get involved, whereas the other subtype tends to maintain distance.

They can be gernerous, kind, helpful, and good-humored, offsetting the One’s more rigid demeanor.

The Two-wing softens the One’s tendancy to be overly harsh and judgmental. If thoughfulness and love of neighbor are their ideals, Ones with a Two-wing will attempt to be caring and personal, trying to take needs of others into consideration. They can be gernerous, kind, helpful, and good-humored, offsetting the One’s more rigid demeanor. They are more willing to work to bring about the changes they desire amd are often found in many of the helping professions; such as teaching, ministry, and medicine.

Average people of this subtype are well-intentioned and seek to educate others, coming from a desire to exert personal influence over others. They are convinced not only that they are right, but that they are well-meaning. They are frequently involved in public causes and reforms of one sort or another out of a sense of personal responsibilty for the welfare of others. Average Ones want to control themselves, while average twos want to control others: these motives reinforce each other. Tendancies to perfectionism, a strict conscience, and self-importance may play a role. They are prone to anger and resentment when others don’t folow their “suggestions”, not liking to have their ideals or motives questioned.

Unhealthy Ones with a two-wing may be intolerant and condescending to those that disagree with them. They may attempt to manipulate others emotionally, making them feel guilty for being less perfect than they should be. They have a tendancy towards self-deception of their own motives, becoming hypocrites by not practicing what they preach. There is a tremendous amount of repressed aggresion in them, and they may have nervous breakdowns as a result of anxiety.

Source: 1-Enneagram Type One | AllPersonality.com

I tend to see this as mixing a couple of very different kinds of mindsets. On the one hand, there is my perfectionistic side that always wants to do better and can be a bit of a critic that gets softened up a bit by that wing which is about being helpful and serving others in a sense. That while on the one hand I want everything just so, the flip side is to try and see what happens. It isn't that simple to explain more fully but I can see a bit of a feminine side to being the helper but that may also be that I'm used to seeing female helpers rather than male helpers in my life to some extent.

 

[MoonLight]

Hmm how is being a helper a feminine thing?

Anyhow, I'm a 1w2. I focus my 1 reform traits towards people and how to help them become a better version of themselves (it could be on an individual or society cases).

 

[Frannyy]

yeah and how is 1w9 more masculine??? because they are supposedly less emotionally expressive and involved???

 

[jbking]

Well...

Hmm how is being a helper a feminine thing?

Granted I'm taking this from somewhat old sources, there is a classic view of a mother raising children and the mother is an example of a feminine role model. That nuturing, loving, compassionate type to help raise someone in the world. There was a post with a couple of videos going through the Enneagram types that seemed to paint 1 as Father, 2 as Mother, 3 as First Child, etc. that also re-inforces this to some extent.

In contrast, a man may be seen as weak for helping someone else without expecting something in return. It may be seen as "girlie" to be helpful. After all, where is the male version of Mother Theresa? Men may be expected to do things on their own and that is part of what it is to be a man.

I will concede that these are somewhat archaic views and may change over time, but this is how I'd answer the question of supporting this particular position.

 

[Wake]

yeah and how is 1w9 more masculine??? because they are supposedly less emotionally expressive and involved???

It's not really a matter of masculine vs not from what information that I've gathered. 1w2 seems more masculine though, as they're more bold in what they do. It seems to be more about how you react when you see things wrong with the world. 1w2 is more likely to step forward and say it's wrong and try to change it, as the 1w9 may try to excuse the problem as "How others like it and sigh" and only try to change it if the item becomes a greater issue to them personally.

I've sort of got feeling that the 1w2 is more likely to be extroverted fitting into the ESTJ, as 1w9 is morely the ISTJ.

I think women are more likely to be 1w2 and men are a bit more likely to be 1w9 not that there is anything wrong with either. I just was entertaining the impression I've got, and putting fourth the reasoning I could find to say its maybe true.

 

[Frannyy]

I never said you thought there was anything wrong with either- you said women are more likely to be 1w2 because that wing is more in tune with their feelings so I was wondering what your reasoning was that men were more likely to be 1w9 and I presumed that it was because 9s are less emotionally expressive. I am genuinely interested in why this would be that more men are 9s and more women are 2s, if it is true.

 

[Wake]

I never said you thought there was anything wrong with either- you said women are more likely to be 1w2 because that wing is more in tune with their feelings so I was wondering what your reasoning was that men were more likely to be 1w9 and I presumed that it was because 9s are less emotionally expressive. I am genuinely interested in why this would be that more men are 9s and more women are 2s, if it is true.

Well the stronger feeling side of women has some impact on how they build themselves from social aspects of our lives to how we react to a problem. The enneagram type 1 is a type which works to minimalize knee-jerk reactions that come from the feelings and instinctual urges(excluding super ego). Therefore women could be considered more likely to fight for what their feelings tell them as the advocate maybe doing. The idealist (1w9) tries to take a step back and ensure the feeling side didn't impact their decision. A stronger feeling side would probably force type 1's to interact a little differently with other people making them more extroverted as they want more human interaction to understand others feelings more.

I think the prospect of a stronger feeling side in a type which doesn't welcome feelings very much makes an interesting dynamic, and I'm certain has some impact. I think this topic could use more solid information. A better view of the psychological makeup of the difference in wings.

 

[MoonLight]

Granted I'm taking this from somewhat old sources, there is a classic view of a mother raising children and the mother is an example of a feminine role model. That nuturing, loving, compassionate type to help raise someone in the world. There was a post with a couple of videos going through the Enneagram types that seemed to paint 1 as Father, 2 as Mother, 3 as First Child, etc. that also re-inforces this to some extent.

In contrast, a man may be seen as weak for helping someone else without expecting something in return. It may be seen as "girlie" to be helpful. After all, where is the male version of Mother Theresa? Men may be expected to do things on their own and that is part of what it is to be a man.

I will concede that these are somewhat archaic views and may change over time, but this is how I'd answer the question of supporting this particular position.

Hmm I can't link helping with gender because I have seen women who don't do it and men who do so it is more about the person rather than the gender.

I do agree that women are seen as more nurturing than men. Generalizations have their place but I guess it is better not to fall into stereotypes.

I agree that 1w2 are more bold and active because both the two types are action oriented but with a 9 wing there is more avoidance of conflict.

I don't know what 1w9 would do but as a 1w2 if I see something morally wrong I don’t think twice I make a comment at least or try to change things.

Thanks for the info

 

[Wake]

Ya gender is a poor way to try to make the make the division, but I would like to know what about the psychological makeup creates the w2 over the w9. I think a hard look at the tri-types may bring me to a better understanding of where they come from.

 

[MoonLight]

The tri-type could give a new insight about this. I was also thinking about other traits of the person's character that can contribute for it to be more w 2 than w 9 mainly being assertive. All 1s more or less aim at some type of reform but some of them possibly the w2 are more active in applying it because of some type of assertive behavior.

Well just a thought.

 

[Wake]

The tri-type could give a new insight about this. I was also thinking about other traits of the person's character that can contribute for it to be more w 2 than w 9 mainly being assertive. All 1s more or less aim at some type of reform but some of them possibly the w2 are more active in applying it because of some type of assertive behavior.

Well just a thought.

I was getting at the question of "Where does assertiveness come from?". We type 1's have our values which we defend in same/similar fashions but why is it that we make that jump from being less likely to step in vs more likely on any given situation? Perhaps its a stronger trust of the conscience or feelings or intelligence or socially outgoing to feel comfortable in the situation or the subject matter being argued. It's probably a mixture of these factors, from my perspective. I do wonder where the drive comes from.

 

[firedancer42]

While I have always viewed a 1w2 with somewhat motherly characteristics, I've never actually viewed 1w9 as the least bit masculine, essentially just neutral. The wings balance out each type, and though we favor one over the other, we must keep in mind that 1s of both genders portray characteristics of both wings at times.

Speaking only as someone who leans towards a 2 wing, I feel that my assertiveness towards doing what is right and fair is done in a more subtle fashion. When I do occasionally get to a point where I have to be blunt about something going on I usually try to push things in a different direction first. So even though the advocate nature is present I tend to fall into more of the manipulative (definitely the wrong word, but the only one that really conveys what I'm meaning) 2 range...working to correct problems on a deeper level, as opposed to getting an uncontrollable urge to speak out and correct an injustice immediately. We all know 1s hate being in the wrong so I try to do a lot of soul searching before I make bold moves towards change. However, I am comfortable working towards more minor issues involved, in hopes that they will add up and others will see problems on there own. To me this is a different take on the motherly view of the 1w2 so many have because a mother who gently guides her children and does not make all of their decisions for them will be more likely to have success with them. Of course, sometimes kids just don't understand why something is wrong and it's a parent's duty to make it clear. When subtleties fail I certainly feel the need to speak out against injustice directly. I definitely fall under the 1-2-6 characteristics of a compliant type, so maybe I just have issues creating rifts with others, but I don't let that get in the way when I truly feel a duty to correct something, I just try to handle the situation in a variety of ways until something is effective. So even if a 1 does not exhibit much outward assertiveness towards a cause there is going to be some internally and it will manifest itself in unique ways that can still combat injustice.

 

[MoonLight]

In a sense any character trait should be seen on a continuum and also the wing aspect as firedancer mentioned. It is all about how the 1 sees as him/herself in a position to guide or to step in.

It is obvious that not all 1s have the same personalities they just exhibit certain similar behaviors and motivations. So if we assume a person on the lower end of the assertive continuum and analyses a situation as better to avoid conflict rather than to cause some type of change then they are more likely to being wing 9. If we go along with the scale or continuum thing then that doesn’t mean that a wing 9 does not ever step in but rather just leans towards it. On the other hand a wing 2 might step in more because avoiding conflict is not a main issue for him/her in certain situations.

Remember that we are dealing with just one theory and one aspect of the human personality which is quite vast and can’t only be described through one perspective.

 

[openedskittles]

I am a 1w2 man as well and I have to admit at first I kind of wanted to be a 1w9 because it doesn't have the emotional connotations. I assume a lot of men just think of themselves as fitting into a more masculine stereotype and give themselves the 9 wing, not because it is more masculine, but because it done not come across as excessively feminine.

In other news, I don't think the 2 wing makes me emotional or partial so much as it balances me and allows me to be more caring. I mean, I am a damn good boyfriend, and I guess that's exactly when my 2 wing does its part.